Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
guess I could go look in the real booklet in the car.
-Brian
I was wondering if there are pads out there that are rotor-friendly but offer better street performance than the stock pads.
Also, would I gain much by going with aftermarket rotors too? Again, I'm looking for a pure street application. Any comments on cryo-treating? ;-)
Ken
Additionally, some rear pad sizes are hard to source. The WRX / H6 Outback brake pad will be easy to find at all four corners for most any common high performance street pad, naturally... but I still don't think for pure street there's a pad that's better than stock when it's all considered: dust, noise, life, cold friction, hot friction, operating temperature.
-Colin
I was afraid of that. I've been searching around on i-club but everyone seems to have one opinion or another about aftermarket pads. Mintex, Axxis, EBC...they all seem to have one drawback or another. My stock pads have been quiet and nearly dust free, OTOH.
So, is there no low-cost mod that would improve all-around brake performance?
Ken
Kinda scary
-steve-V
Shortlid, While it sounds high for a single axle brake job, the diagnostics for the shifting problem might have eaten as much as an hour of that labor. Take that off and it sounds closer to the $130-160 I hear for the typical 2 wheel job at dealers today.
Steve
-mike
Maybe those guys will chime in.
-juice
-Dennis
I'd recommend Goodridge stainless steel brake lines. Be sure to inspect them at least once a year, and replace them --or warn the next owner to replace them-- after 3-5 years. (yearly on a race vehicle.)
I have good initial grab because of them, although the squishiness won't go away unless you get rid of the stock dual-stage brake booster and replace it with a single stage unit. That's kinda expensive.
Oh, also when you install the lines use a good quality brake fluid. You don't need something expensive, I use Valvoline SynPower, which is DOT4+ and has very good wet and dry boiling points for cheap fluid you can get at any autoparts store or even Wal-Mart. Actually... it's about the most expensive that they would carry but still, cheap compared to motorsport spec stuff. Flush your fluid really well and bleed the system well. In 2 hours (for the average DIYer) you'll be done and happier for it.
Don't overlook the good bleeding. A little air in the lines makes a big difference, even if you're well above the level that keeps the brake pedal off the floor.
-Colin
Ken
No matter, though. I'd put the likelihood at 90% H6, 10% turbo at this point.
-juice
several-- many perhaps-- of those B4 twin turbo engines have made it to north america via importers and individual enthusiasts. slight problem though, they won't fit in any LHD car. would make for a neat swap into a legacy postal wagon though. hehe
-Colin
Bob—going postal...
steve-v
-juice
-mike
Patti
-mike
I'm all for anything that makes life (or driving) better. If this is one of those features, go for it.
Bob
The Passat has a drive-by-wire throttle. The stuff is trickling onto cars.
I'm OK with it as long as they leave the feedback.
-juice
-mike
But think about it - airplanes have used the technology for decades.
-juice
Bob
But people really grade on a curve when it has that little propellor badge on the hood.
-juice
Patti - you actually met him at the Philly auto show.
-Dennis
-Colin
I think we'll see throttle-by-wire first, then brake-by-wire, because steering is probably where natural feedback matters most.
-juice
-mike
Bob
-mike
But they say it consumes less energy, so it's likely that it'll appear before steer-by-wire does. I think Saturn uses it, and paisan's XT has it.
-juice
-mike
-juice
Trivia: In the case of the F-16, which was the first production fly-by-wire aircraft, I believe, the aircraft is inherently unstable. Thus the computer(s) fly the aircraft, and the stick just provides input to the computer to change the direction of flight. The original flight-control computers on it were actually analog, and IIRC, there were four of them running in parallel on each aircraft for redundancy.
FWIW,
Theo
Plus, cars operate in much more controlled environments than air planes.
-juice
Brake-by-wire is also tricky, because even though the average driver is a bit of a doofus (of course we're all significantly above average, LOL) brake-by-wire has to know what the traffic is really doing to know how much braking force to apply. Without radar, I can't see any system being built that would be better than a driver who is paying attention and has modern 4 channel ABS controlling mundane hydraulic brakes under his/her right foot.
It could easily be inferior. Think about it-- when you get on the brakes HARD because you know you've got to stop *for sure*, say a collision in front of you, pedestrian in the road, etc. how will brake-by-wire know to get on the binders with full efficiency and stay that way? And if it is programmed for that every time, how are you to brake hard briefly in heavy traffic and not have someone rear-end you?
-Colin
I don't necessarily want it; in fact I value the natural feedback. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
They could figure out brakes, though. Braking pressure could simply be proportional to pedal force.
-juice
That buys you nothing over current brakes then. Oh, except higher implementation and service costs.
Throttle-by-wire is much more than just mundane proportional distribution, that's why it's a good thing. It's even better when it's smart enough to tune itself to the driver's habits. But the car doesn't need to know where other vehicles / obstructions are at to know how much throttle to give.
-Colin
I can see some benefits to brake-by-wire if the saftey concerns can be worked out. One area is ABS -- lots of people freak out when they feel the pedal pulsate from ABS activation. A brake-by-wire system could provide more isolation.
Steer-by-wire sounds even further off, but heck it might be great for people who like the overboosted power steering in American cars.
Ken
The F-16 is unstable in certain modes, which is what gives it such excellent maneuverability. The computer is there to manage the instability, leaving the rest to the pilot and the control system. No human could possibly manage the instability -and- provide directional control at the same time. When the pilot wants to maneuver, what he is actually doing is letting some of the unstable effects take over. Very novel approach to maneuver control authority -- instead of moving a control surface to generate maneuver control, you just "un-stifle" some of the control authority that is already there.
Interestingly, the F-16 is capable of far more agressive maneuvers than any human pilot could live through. Most fighter aircraft are that way -- the performance limits are due to the pilot and not the airframe or controls. Makes me wonder what engineers could do for cars once a lot of the control inputs go through computers . . . . .
Craig
-mike
Patti
Dennis: He was mentioning you PM last night at dinner, he was quite thankful.
-mike
Now that's not to say that computers are perfect. But a hardwired control system built into ROMs will be leagues more reliable than the typical hardware/software problems most computer users run into. The trick is to make sure the algorithms really work before they get burned into hardware. From what I have seen, most automotive on board computers are pretty good in that respect.
It will be interesting if automotive computers start to veer in the direction of software that can be upgraded and re-programmed. I am not sure I would be so keen about that. I can just imagine the automotive equivalent of a kernal dump . . . .
Craig
-mike