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Comments
-Colin
Mike
Jim
Combustion gasses should not be in the coolant system at all. IMO it's time for a new engine, under warranty of course. You could easily have warped or cracked the cylinder heads or block... if the dealer doesn't realize this they are pretty poor. Whatever happened with SOA getting involved?
-Colin
BTW, it did have the bump-ons and clear stickers for the bump-ons to rub against. When it oscillated, it would do so primarily on the back side of the middle, where there aren't any bump-ons. But where it broke is on the side where there were bump-ons.
Theo in Colo.
Patti
Thanks!
Patti
Mike-
I think your '98 Forester would be similar to my '98 OB. As in that case, sad to say that the filter is inside of the transmission pan The job didn't look like something a do-it-yourself'er would attempt (especially me).
-Dave
-mike
This has developed at approximately 16K miles.
The only way to safely handle this is to pour in way too much power, and brutalize the drivetrain into forward motion-never my style. This problem goes away after a few lurching visits to stop signs. Once things are warm, the car will pull away smoothly with as little as 600 rpm.
It is shaking my nice, tight cabin trim apart, and can't be doing any favors to the powertrain.
SF Bay Area dealer says the clutch went out of warranty at 12K miles. They also suggested that cold fluid in the car's viscous coupling could be the problem. At 45 degrees? Their other answer was that clutch chatter is typical of the make.
My car never carries heavy loads, has been on dirt exactly two times, and has had fully synthetic oil in its sump from 1800 miles. The car had 90% of its brakes remaining at its 15K service. This sounds like an easy life to me...
I have used quite byzantine, unsynchronized gearboxes in a variety of trucks in my past life as a packer in the Eastern Sierra, but this 2001 Forester S' morning tantrum makes them all seem like lap dogs.
Love the car, and don't want to see this become cataclysmic. Anybody know anything?
If this problem can be duplicated for the dealer, it sounds like a no-brainer. If the dealer balks, call Subaru, open a case, and get Patti involved.
FWIW, we have an (early - May of) '01 with 24k miles, and tow with it in the Rockies. No clutch issues. I did my homework before we purchased, and the clutch problems reported in the early Foresters (per SOA) were resolved with a redesigned pressure plate. CR seems to confirm this with their surveys.
I took the increase in the warranty from '00 to '01 as an indication that they thought they had indeed addressed it, although one might look at that differently. Some here have had some problems too, but most of those cases are older model years to my knowledge.
hth, and good luck
-bv
Root cause: fragile 5 speed gearbox originally engineered to live behind a 110HP 1.8L still being used behind much more powerful engines. This causes Fuji Heavy to use a soft clutch--a weak pressure plate, to be specific--to keep the gearbox alive under clueless or hard use/abuse.
This results in the current situation, where many owners who have never had a problem with chatter or premature clutch failure in any previous vehicles find themselves with severe chatter and dealers saying "they all do that" or "what have you been doing to it?".
Patti might be able to help. With luck, a new factory pressure plate and flywheel (it is probably uneven, and Subaru never advocates turning them on the lathe-- new flywheels only) might help. If it doesn't, you can either figure out how to drive around the problem or install a slightly uprated aftermarket clutch like an ACT Street, which uses a stock Exedy organic clutch disc and a firmer pressure plate.
re: driving around the problem, we've discussed it here several times and it's too bad there's not a real search function where you could find these posts easily.
-Colin
Colin and bv pretty much summed it all up. The only thing I'd like to add is trying a different dealer? Which one have you been going to? I live in the Bay Area and have found Santa Cruz Subaru to be outstanding. I know it's a haul to get over 17, but it's well worth the trip.
Ken
Did I mention the car had to be towed to the shop? Turned out to be a blown fuse, and such that shop had to special-order it from Honda and wait 2 days for it to arrive... My old Loyale never gave us so much trouble.
So I guess they don't make 100% reliable cars anymore, at least I consider Honda's reliability a myth by now.
Ed
Ross
Ed -- I get that impression too. I'm actually curious about the history of the two now that you mention it. I thought I read somewhere the the AT was based off a Nissan design.
Ken
Subaru did finally address the problem with the manual, but it's in the (thus far) STi-only six speed. It's bigger, heavier and far more robust. The bigger case allows for ... you guessed it, bigger gears. Case flex is a problem with the 5 speed too.
-Colin
I do believe that the 4EAT is shared with some of the Nissan pathfinder and Mazda MPV (the real MPV) http://subarusvx.com/faq.html
-mike
Mike
I had my fluids replaced at the Dealer Service.
It took the Tech about a good 1/2 hour to remove the pan to avoid damage. The pan was cemented @ factory with some killer apoxy.
-Dave
-juice
-Brian
-juice
That's cool news. I'm off to MTM!
Ken
Mike
-mike
YetAnotherDave
Mike
The owner's manual puts no restrictions on towing beyond weights, etc either. In fact, they're more concerned (with overheating) on the AT than the MT.
For '03, the tow rating on the MT is now higher than on the AT (2400#'s vs 2000 per Patti). Isn't this an indication that the MT isn't made of glass ? Just how abusive do you have to be with your clutch to get into trouble, anyway ?
I understand that an AT is fundamentally the better choice for towing by the way (torque multiplication from a standstill and all that), and that planetary gears are generally stronger, all else being equal. I'm just wondering if there isn't more to the story, so to speak...
tia,
-bv
My clutch chatters slightly, but it's withstood 44k miles of abuse, including towing, driving in sand, Pine Barrens, etc. So I think while it may be an issue, it may not necessarily affect longevity. Anyone had theirs replaced completely yet, say in less than 60k miles?
-juice
I nearly lost that plastic cover on the highway, thanks to missing screws. I want to buy replacement screws and fasten the cover back on.
-juice
-mike
My dealer says this is a "normal" condition for Subaru clutches and that it's not affecting the long term durability...covering their collective a$$es until my warranty runs out I suppose. "Normally" I wouldn't expect even the nastiest Kia to exhibit this type of problem.
I absolutely love my Outback, but I will never buy another manual trans car from Subaru...ever. As much as I dislike driving automatics, this may be my last Subaru, too. Subaru's icing over this problem on a $25K vehicle is disgusting.
Good luck dealing with your Forester, and try to enjoy the car in spite of itself!
I have gotten into the habit of "goosing" the engine - just a touch to the throttle to bounce the rpm's off the low idle before engaging the clutch. That does the trick for me.
J
Thanks.
Patti
-juice
around 1200 rpm sounds right, but IMO the real trick is to let out the clutch slowly at the friction point, to where the vehicle starts moving forward WITHOUT giving it any more throttle. then after you're moving feed in the gas as you let the clutch out fully.
-Colin
I don't have my owners manual at hand, but doesn't Subaru publish recommended rpms? I'd be curious to know what they have to say, on the record.
YetAnotherDave
-juice