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Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

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Comments

  • ltcolumboltcolumbo Member Posts: 40
    Piston slap is rhythmic to engine rpms.....loose timing belt tensioner would be more random (never acutally "heard" one). I've had piston slap in other engines ('86 Camry, overheated Renault R5....not mine ;) and am familiar with the sound. I don't think the dealers in my area are familiar enough with this.....they probably don't even have the tool to adjust the valves!!
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    The timing belt slapping the cover is RPM dependent as well.

    -Colin
  • ltcolumboltcolumbo Member Posts: 40
    I would think that a rhythmic metal knocking or rattle would be distinctively different from a rubber belt hitting plastic sound.
  • maverick1017maverick1017 Member Posts: 212
    Hi all, got a quick question for everyone and anyone. Where is the ATF Filter? I changed the ATF at 30K w/o changing the filter, now I am comming on to the 60K service and I would really like to change the ATF filter if it is at all possible. Thanks in advance for any info.

    Mike
  • dmanzidmanzi Member Posts: 12
    Here I go again. Three months ago it was new head gaskets. Last month, a new heater coil. Now, another heater coil. The steam bath inside my 2000 Outback returned, as did a pinned temperature gauge. It's back to the dealer tomorrow, and who knows for how long this time? One thing is for sure, once this thing is fixed this time, it's gone. I've had it with this car.
  • wstongewstonge Member Posts: 1
    I do most of my own minor maintenance, oil and filter changes, etc. Rotating tires, checking brake pads etc. I'm now coming to a service point that says to lubricate the chassis on my 2001 Impreza. Most new cars don't have many fittings to grease (not like the old days), but does anyone know what points on the chassis need lubrication ..per Subaru service policy?
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    I don't blame you, and I'm sorry for all the trouble you've had.

    Jim
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I don't mean to nitpick, but it is a heater "core". The only explanation for repeatedly blowing them is that combustion gasses are overpressuring the coolant system.

    Combustion gasses should not be in the coolant system at all. IMO it's time for a new engine, under warranty of course. You could easily have warped or cracked the cylinder heads or block... if the dealer doesn't realize this they are pretty poor. Whatever happened with SOA getting involved?

    -Colin
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Finally got a chance to look over the car after the hood deflector disintegrated. It appears that it DID put a scratch in the hood about 6 inches long. It made a small indentation in the hood at the impact point. So what do I do now?

    BTW, it did have the bump-ons and clear stickers for the bump-ons to rub against. When it oscillated, it would do so primarily on the back side of the middle, where there aren't any bump-ons. But where it broke is on the side where there were bump-ons.

    Theo in Colo.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I advised the Rep. of your post. I don't know what is going on, but I'm requesting some tech. assistance to your dealer. I'm really sorry.

    Patti
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Please have your dealer call us when it goes in for inspection.

    Thanks!

    Patti
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    maverick1017 Apr 1, 2002 2:36pm

    Mike-
    I think your '98 Forester would be similar to my '98 OB. As in that case, sad to say that the filter is inside of the transmission pan :( The job didn't look like something a do-it-yourself'er would attempt (especially me).

    -Dave
  • hciaffahciaffa Member Posts: 454
    What year is your Forester. If its a 98 there is no external filter but an internal filter screen. If you have a 99 and newer is when they changed the AT to the 4EAT and it has an external filter. Looking at the tranny from under the Forester on the drivers side It looks like a oil filter and the drain plug is on that side as well. Don't get it confused with the oil pan plug. If your going to change the ATF filter you might as well drain the tranny and refill. You won't be able drain all of it but you can get most of it. I went to Mobil 1 ATF and I notice big difference of the tranny shifting smoothly. Hope this helps.
  • dmanzidmanzi Member Posts: 12
    I've had the cylinder heads checked, and compression is normal. Also, the dealer did check for combustion gases overpressurizing the cooling system. At this point, I simply can't rely on this car. I use it for commuting and family travel, and I need something more reliable than this car. Something is very wrong with this car, and unless it's discovered during this next visit, it's history for me.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's not a mystery, I mean a competant subaru shop should be able to fix it no questions asked. Maybe you should try a different dealer?

    -mike
  • revcounterrevcounter Member Posts: 3
    Seriously. Cold starting this car in 45 F degree weather and attempting to roll away in first gear with no more power applied than what the fast idle gives, and the car jounces around on its tall springs like a burro with a wasp on his privates.

    This has developed at approximately 16K miles.

    The only way to safely handle this is to pour in way too much power, and brutalize the drivetrain into forward motion-never my style. This problem goes away after a few lurching visits to stop signs. Once things are warm, the car will pull away smoothly with as little as 600 rpm.

    It is shaking my nice, tight cabin trim apart, and can't be doing any favors to the powertrain.

    SF Bay Area dealer says the clutch went out of warranty at 12K miles. They also suggested that cold fluid in the car's viscous coupling could be the problem. At 45 degrees? Their other answer was that clutch chatter is typical of the make.

    My car never carries heavy loads, has been on dirt exactly two times, and has had fully synthetic oil in its sump from 1800 miles. The car had 90% of its brakes remaining at its 15K service. This sounds like an easy life to me...

    I have used quite byzantine, unsynchronized gearboxes in a variety of trucks in my past life as a packer in the Eastern Sierra, but this 2001 Forester S' morning tantrum makes them all seem like lap dogs.

    Love the car, and don't want to see this become cataclysmic. Anybody know anything?
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Per subaru.com, the '01 Forester clutch warranty is 3yrs/36000 miles. Check it out.

    If this problem can be duplicated for the dealer, it sounds like a no-brainer. If the dealer balks, call Subaru, open a case, and get Patti involved.

    FWIW, we have an (early - May of) '01 with 24k miles, and tow with it in the Rockies. No clutch issues. I did my homework before we purchased, and the clutch problems reported in the early Foresters (per SOA) were resolved with a redesigned pressure plate. CR seems to confirm this with their surveys.

    I took the increase in the warranty from '00 to '01 as an indication that they thought they had indeed addressed it, although one might look at that differently. Some here have had some problems too, but most of those cases are older model years to my knowledge.

    hth, and good luck

    -bv
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Clutch chatter is sadly a problem for many 2.5L Subarus and the WRX as well. There have been several revisions of the pressure plate; the WRX uses a totally different clutch and it has problems to.

    Root cause: fragile 5 speed gearbox originally engineered to live behind a 110HP 1.8L still being used behind much more powerful engines. This causes Fuji Heavy to use a soft clutch--a weak pressure plate, to be specific--to keep the gearbox alive under clueless or hard use/abuse.

    This results in the current situation, where many owners who have never had a problem with chatter or premature clutch failure in any previous vehicles find themselves with severe chatter and dealers saying "they all do that" or "what have you been doing to it?".

    Patti might be able to help. With luck, a new factory pressure plate and flywheel (it is probably uneven, and Subaru never advocates turning them on the lathe-- new flywheels only) might help. If it doesn't, you can either figure out how to drive around the problem or install a slightly uprated aftermarket clutch like an ACT Street, which uses a stock Exedy organic clutch disc and a firmer pressure plate.

    re: driving around the problem, we've discussed it here several times and it's too bad there's not a real search function where you could find these posts easily.

    -Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    revcounter,

    Colin and bv pretty much summed it all up. The only thing I'd like to add is trying a different dealer? Which one have you been going to? I live in the Bay Area and have found Santa Cruz Subaru to be outstanding. I know it's a haul to get over 17, but it's well worth the trip.

    Ken
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    My husband took his Accord'97 for 60K service, to the local mechanic known for reasonable prices... we ended up paying nearly $900, all maintenance but still -- $900? Timing belt had to be replaced, engine tuned up, brake rotors replaced (2nd time for that car!), etc.

    Did I mention the car had to be towed to the shop? Turned out to be a blown fuse, and such that shop had to special-order it from Honda and wait 2 days for it to arrive... My old Loyale never gave us so much trouble.

    So I guess they don't make 100% reliable cars anymore, at least I consider Honda's reliability a myth by now.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Not trying to start a flame war but it seems that Subaru's automatics are sturdier than their manuals?

    Ed
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    I sort of got that impression when I was researching Subaru 2 years ago. It was one of the several factors which led me to buy my first AT after 35+ years of MT only.

    Ross
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Ross -- But you still ended up buying a Subie! :-)

    Ed -- I get that impression too. I'm actually curious about the history of the two now that you mention it. I thought I read somewhere the the AT was based off a Nissan design.

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I'd agree with that opinion, no flames need be involved. The 4EAT is on the whole much more robust being bigger and heavier, and of course the planetary gears inside an automatic offer much larger engagement teeth than a manual.

    Subaru did finally address the problem with the manual, but it's in the (thus far) STi-only six speed. It's bigger, heavier and far more robust. The bigger case allows for ... you guessed it, bigger gears. Case flex is a problem with the 5 speed too.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The one in my XT6 takes ALOT of abuse so I can verify that. I'm hoping my copper clutch and upgraded pressure plate doesn't cause my MT to blow up... :(


    I do believe that the 4EAT is shared with some of the Nissan pathfinder and Mazda MPV (the real MPV) http://subarusvx.com/faq.html


    -mike

  • maverick1017maverick1017 Member Posts: 212
    Thanks guys for the info. I kind of figured that the filter was gonna be inside the ATF pan. I'll give it a shot and see if I can do it myself, if not I can always put the fluid back and take it to a professional. I am considering switching to Mobile 1 ATF as well, maybe I'll just bite the bullet and do it.

    Mike
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Mike-
    I had my fluids replaced at the Dealer Service.
    It took the Tech about a good 1/2 hour to remove the pan to avoid damage. The pan was cemented @ factory with some killer apoxy.

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hey auto tranny fans - the 2003 GT 2.5 gets VTD AWD and a Shiftronic control for the tranny, too. I know Lark is itching to upgrade, so hopefully this tranny will become available on more models soon.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    juice - you talking about the '03 Legacy GT? guess I better go check MTM or the cafe for more info from the show.

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes sir! That was the big news. :-)

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    juice,

    That's cool news. I'm off to MTM!

    Ken
  • maverick1017maverick1017 Member Posts: 212
    perhaps that would loosen it up enough to remove it? don't know if the pan is plastic or not, don't want to melt anything. Maybe a hair dryer woudl help. Does it have to be resealed with the same stuff afterwards? hmmm, i wonder how much the dealer would charge for a tranny fluid & filter change. I know most other places will flush the tranny and put new fluid in but wouldn't change the filter.

    Mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I think that my XT6 and/or my Trooper has a re-usable screen in the ATF.

    -mike
  • peterson10peterson10 Member Posts: 116
    Sam: please forgive me, I hope I don't come off sounding critical; I'm sure I'm misunderstanding your (and other's) recent post. But, if you "pull away", on level terrain, at only 600 rpm, you are putting a terrific load on your engine. A cold engine is already, effectively, under load, so engaging the clutch without getting those RPMs up will shake your bumpers off. Now, I haven't had a moments trouble with any of my (three) Subaru clutches...YET (I'm not superstitious, but I am touching a piece of wood with crossed fingers at the moment). I probably baby my clutches more than most folks could tolerate. Heck, I even turn off the stereo when I'm in town so that I can hear/feel that moment when the engine revs get picked up by the transmission-so don't assume I am an average driver in any respect. Sam, do you get any of that burned-halibut smell that others have reported? Anyone - Is that smell from the surface of the pressure plate or something else?
    YetAnotherDave
  • maverick1017maverick1017 Member Posts: 212
    Went to Pepboys and checked one out. its a filter that comes with a rubber ring that's suppose to go around it.

    Mike
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Not to be argumentative, a lot of you guys have been driving Subaru's longer than I and are certainly more knowledgable, but before we bought our camper, I called 1-800-Subaru and asked if I could tow in 5th. The rep checked with technical and said "Yep. The tranny will take it. It's been tested under all conditions."

    The owner's manual puts no restrictions on towing beyond weights, etc either. In fact, they're more concerned (with overheating) on the AT than the MT.

    For '03, the tow rating on the MT is now higher than on the AT (2400#'s vs 2000 per Patti). Isn't this an indication that the MT isn't made of glass ? Just how abusive do you have to be with your clutch to get into trouble, anyway ?

    I understand that an AT is fundamentally the better choice for towing by the way (torque multiplication from a standstill and all that), and that planetary gears are generally stronger, all else being equal. I'm just wondering if there isn't more to the story, so to speak...

    tia,

    -bv
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's distinguish - tranny vs. clutch. The tranny isn't the issue, it's the clutch. So getting starting is more of a concern than cruising in 5th.

    My clutch chatters slightly, but it's withstood 44k miles of abuse, including towing, driving in sand, Pine Barrens, etc. So I think while it may be an issue, it may not necessarily affect longevity. Anyone had theirs replaced completely yet, say in less than 60k miles?

    -juice
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    Does anybody know the spec for screws (bolts?) that are used to mount plastic cover underneath the Forester (something that has to be taken off when you change oil)?

    I nearly lost that plastic cover on the highway, thanks to missing screws. I want to buy replacement screws and fasten the cover back on.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think they take a 10mm or 12mm socket, but I forget. The thread is metric, but I'm sure exactly which.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's not the towing that hurts them. It just can't handle 300+hp + Torque. That is the problem with the 5MT. Guys are already blowing up parts on the WRX 5MT!

    -mike
  • hookem99hookem99 Member Posts: 2
    can anyone share what the tune up interval subaru recommends for the wrx and if there is any special maintenance for the turbo? also, if you have experience on what you paid for service.. thanks!
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    Since my clutch has chattered (that's really too nice a word for what is really going on) since my 01 OB was new, I have repeatedly tried to find the secret formula to a smooth start with this car and have yet to figure it out. I think I'm pretty easy on my cars and would not categorize this clutch as "abused," but I have been able to minimize the horrible shuddering these past few months by launching it in 1st with at LEAST 1500rpms dialed in...the problem with the clutch is certainly not acceptable, but at least in doing this I can usually limit the amount of shaking when pulling away from a stop.

    My dealer says this is a "normal" condition for Subaru clutches and that it's not affecting the long term durability...covering their collective a$$es until my warranty runs out I suppose. "Normally" I wouldn't expect even the nastiest Kia to exhibit this type of problem.

    I absolutely love my Outback, but I will never buy another manual trans car from Subaru...ever. As much as I dislike driving automatics, this may be my last Subaru, too. Subaru's icing over this problem on a $25K vehicle is disgusting.

    Good luck dealing with your Forester, and try to enjoy the car in spite of itself!
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    I have some very mild chatter on my '01 - I guess that's what you'd call it anyway, but it's very intermittent. Even in it's worst incarnations, it's never been anything like what's being described here, and those were always times when I'd recently worked out and didn't have the fine muscle control in my leg that I normally do (so I tend to put it to me more than the clutch).

    I have gotten into the habit of "goosing" the engine - just a touch to the throttle to bounce the rpm's off the low idle before engaging the clutch. That does the trick for me.
  • jimw11jimw11 Member Posts: 4
    Does anyone have instructions on how to install the air filtration kit in a 2002 Subaru Outback Wagon?

    J
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    If you have a problem, and you are unhappy with what a dealer tells you, please call us. We do our best to resolve situations. Intermittant problems can be a challenge, but we will do our best. The number is 1-800-SUBARU3.

    Thanks.

    Patti
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    1200 rpm launches work very smoothly for me. Try that, FWIW.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I posted earlier but don't feel like looking for it.

    around 1200 rpm sounds right, but IMO the real trick is to let out the clutch slowly at the friction point, to where the vehicle starts moving forward WITHOUT giving it any more throttle. then after you're moving feed in the gas as you let the clutch out fully.

    -Colin
  • peterson10peterson10 Member Posts: 116
    I'll take some precise readings on my drive home tonight, but I'm confident my "average" rpms while engaging the clutch (from a standstill) are at LEAST 1200 rpms. I say "average" because of course I'm throttling up as the clutch picks up the torque. This all happens in about one second, but by the time the clutch is fully engaged the revs are at 2000, minimum! Generally, when I'm doing things right, my take-offs and up-shifts are smoother than those produced by a garden-variety automatic...based of course on the very rare instances when I've driven (someone else's) AT. I've only ever owned MTs (well, we'll forget about that 6 months in "Granada-hell") so my clutching is purely intuitive by now, but as I said, I'll watch closely my revs/speed/etc. and let you know what (rightly or wrongly) I'm doing.

    I don't have my owners manual at hand, but doesn't Subaru publish recommended rpms? I'd be curious to know what they have to say, on the record.

    YetAnotherDave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, they do. For ideal fuel economy, the speeds where they recommend you shift to the next gear work out to be about 3000rpm.

    -juice
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    I may give them a call before my next dealer service. It's warming up here to the mid-70's, so I suspect the clutch problem will subside somewhat until next winter (as it did last summer). Juice's mention of a shiftronic auto (5sp?!) gives me hope for my next Subaru!
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