Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

jerrys2 · May 2002

Where could I locate a list of sugested service items? (my daughter lost her owners manual)

Thanks, Jerry

jerrys2 · May 2002

Whoops should have said Legacy Wagon.

hypov · May 2002

Jerry,

I think you could download them from SoA website, not certain; but I'm certain you're able to download from http://my.subaru.com

Need to register the car to login though.

-Dave

hammersley · May 2002

Mike: The rack probably couldn't stand the prosperity. C'est la vie, and job security!

Cheers!
Paul

lucien2 · May 2002

Some dude posted a bunch of XT6 parts for sale in the i club private for sale forum. Not a specific list, but he might have what you need.

paisan · May 2002

I think the rack was leaking originally before I got the car and caused the pump to burn out due to lack of fluid. I'm gonna disconnect my pump wires so that I don't burn that oneout as well. Luckily car-part.com has a bunch of racks for about $100-$125 each so I will pick one up.

-mike

ateixeira · May 2002

Len: we got a 2002 Legacy L wagon. Read all about it in Meet the Members.

To put this back on topic - we got 6 free oil changes too.

-juice

jregen7243 · May 2002

I know everyone here loves Flemington Subaru, and I'd like to go there for my 30k service, its just that its a far trip and a definite day off of work. Has anyone been to Somerset Subaru?? If so, any problems or comments you can share would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Jon

kens · May 2002

bird19: I believe gas stations "create" mid-grade gas by doing just that -- mixing premium and regular on-the-fly.

Len: Unfortunately, clutch chatter seems to be a common problem with the 5-speed. The general consensus seems to be that the pressure plate is suspect. Work with your dealer and see what they can do.

Ken

locke2c · May 2002

Ken, you are correct-- midgrade is absolutely an instant mix of standard and premium.

That's also why octane boosters are dubious. Midgrade works because it is at/near a 50/50 mix; one 16 ounce bottle of 104 - 118 octane isn't going to do much to 15 gallons of 91 octane!

-Colin

ateixeira · May 2002

Around here, though, you'll get a better price if you mix it yourself. Say the difference from 87-89 is 10 cents a gallon, and from 89-93 is also 10 cents. Put half 87, half 93, and you'll average 90 octane for the same price of 89.

Is it worth it? No, that would be a pain and take too much time at the pump, IMO.

-juice

mrdetailer · May 2002

My Subaru is a 1991 so this may not be applicable to newer cars.

I took a long trip and a couple of months before I had completely converted over to Premium. I kept track of all of the mileage. After I arrived in Sedona after a 680 mile trip, the gas mileage was exactly the same as on mid grade. Once in Sedona I switched back to mid grade and ran that on the way home. I actually got 2 MPG better on 3 tanks. And we did more uphill driving. So for me the experiment failed, and I'm sticking with the cheaper mid grade. No reason to go to Premium if I don't get better gas mileage.

kens · May 2002

Actually, your experience applies to all vehicles. Putting in premium gas in an engine designed to run on regular usually doesn't result in better performance. In fact, you may even hurt performance as a result. Why? Premium gas is more resistant to pre-detonation (aka knocking).

Again, this is just a rule of thumb and there may be some engines designed for regular that run better with higher octane fuel.

Also, keep in mind that it sometimes takes several tanks of a type of gas before your engine computer adjusts to it.

Ken

locke2c · May 2002

mrdetailer,

no offense but the first thing that comes to mind for me is that the return trip consumed less gasoline for a more obvious reason than the octane of the gas itself. things like:

tailwind / lack of headwind

less aggressive / more passive driving

less passing

less use of air conditioner

slower speed (unlikely, you probably would have mentioned that)

more than you ever wanted to know about octane, including why two vehicles of the same model year and type may require different octanes for peak performance, and why premium generally doesn't help normal cars:

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54942

-Colin

paisan · May 2002

Do you even own a subie Colin! Heeeeee Heeeeee

-mike

PS: Love bustin his ballz

kens · May 2002

Sounds like that "Trooper" comment hit a nerve! ;-)

Ken

mrdetailer · May 2002

First my manual recommends Premium, but said you can run midgrade if you want. I have been running midgrade for years before this experiment. It got very low mileage using regular.

As to the other issues.

tailwind / lack of headwind Much more wind on the return trip.

less aggressive / more passive driving

Both were long stretches on the highway, only about 50 miles less of freeway driving.
less passing

less use of air conditioner

Air conditioner was not used on either trip.

slower speed (unlikely, you probably would have mentioned that)

Hey it was open desert, no towns, low traffic --

While my general rule is no more than 5 MPH over the posted limit, I'll take the fifth for certain deserted highway stretches -- no towns no traffic. Best guess similar driving at higher speeds.

paisan · May 2002

I did similar tests on my trooper, but did 5K miles with regular and 5K with premium. Found the Premium helped me get .5MPG better and no performance increase. Same case with my XT6.

-mike

PS: just busting on colin

lucien2 · May 2002

Kolin to you now, bub. ;-)

joseph50 · May 2002

It is plain that super for regular for regular engines does not help, but can it hurt in any way?
(One of the percs at working for my university is getting to use its private pump at a discount price. I think it pumps 94, and my Forester calls for only 87.)
Thanks,
Joe

ateixeira · May 2002

Can't hurt besides emptying your wallet in most cases.

-juice

bluesubie · May 2002

Len - Did the advisor say anything about being familiar with clutch shudder? The last time I was there, the advisor and I talked about it and he was familiar with it. Intermittent problems are a pain.

Jon - I first went to Somerset a few years ago because they are closer than Flemington.
The service was excellent. They have (had) a couple of Senior Master Techs and actually do the major services (15k, 30k, etc.) "by the book" like Flemington.

The only reason that I didn't continue to use them was because they don't have Saturday hours.

-Dennis

leo2633 · May 2002

Dennis,

I had it checked for that twice, and both times, the mechanic wasn't able to detect anything during a test drive. It was only happening when cold, but now it's getting more frequent, even when warm. They said I'd have to leave it overnight. I had an appointment for yesterday, but something came up and I had to cancel. I'll reschedule for sometime in the near future. (But, to answer your question, they didn't say anything about being familiar with it.)

Len

kens · May 2002

Len,

Make sure that the dealership logs your concerns even though they can't replicate the problem then. By leaving a paper trail, you have a better chance of any warranty repair if they find the problem later on.

Ken

shortlid · May 2002

How much Syn. ATF is need to flush the AT on a '98 legacy L wagon?? I fond some Penzoil syn. ATF for $3.00 a qt. the maintinace g=book on a Cali. emisions Legacy EJ22 says 60K for valve adjustment I have 65k and taping. Should I do this or take it in??

ateixeira · May 2002

I helped a buddy do his valves on an Integra. 16 valves all conveniently placed right there on top for easy access, and it was still a royal pain to do.

Now imagine a boxer, so twice as many heads for double the work, with difficult access.

-juice

dude · May 2002

Was quoted $215 for a rear break job on a 98 Legacy GT wagon, in Colorado. I think it's a rip-off. Anybody can recommend a good place to get it in Denver?

mrdetailer · May 2002

at a certain chain that has a yellow building and a high profile celebrity. They cheated me by replacing brake shoes that had only been replaced 1 year before and looked great.

I had mine done at a local brake specialty shop and was very satisfied with the work.

lucien2 · May 2002

this from a non-posting friend of mine.....car in question is a 2wd 2.2l BF Legacy:

"The tie rods on the front wheels are done. Is that an easy enough thing to fix on one's own? Any idea? Is there an information source (read: internet site) that will tell me what a fair and reasonable mechanical repair estimate should look like?"

What say ye? Should we attempt this on our own?

paisan · May 2002

I don't think it's that hard. What year legacy? I have the book for the first gen legacy (also has SVX and XT6) I could see what the diag looks like for it.

I'm gonna be doing my rack in 2 weeks which probably will require me to do something with the tie rods too.

-mike

lucien2 · May 2002

1992? Or thereabouts

ateixeira · May 2002

$215 sounds high, I see ads for $70 per axle (for pads only). Are they turning the rotors too? Bleeding the brakes?

-juice

subearu · May 2002

recently paid $180 for new rotors and pads on our Saturn, fwiw.

-Brian

dude · May 2002

They change the pads, turn rotors and do adjusting. Don't think it includes bleeding the brakes. I've had all kinds of problems with "Just Brakes" store with my 95 Prizm. Don't want to go back there. I might try BigO store.

fibber2 · May 2002

My old Toyota V6, along with some higher compression engines recommend premium. If you use fuel with a lower octane rating, they will tend to ping. The engine mgmt system (knock sensor, etc) will typically retard the timing in response. This reduces power and will cut mileage some. Retarded timing also raises engine temps, which generally raises the octane requirement and makes the engine knock more. A bad cycle, and especially a bad thing to do in the summer. I found that I could get away with regular gas in cooler, damp weather, but had to go premium in warmer months.

This observation is consistant with some mfgrs that openly state a slightly lower HP rating if you use reg instead of premium - the engine computer is adjusting parameters to compensate.

So if you have an engine 'on the edge', you may indeed find that feeding it more expensive fuel will give you slightly more power & slightly better mileage (by having the timing more advanced, more of the time). There may also be a slight wear advantage due to lower system temperatures that come with more optimized timing.

I usually give a shot of higher octane when I will be demanding more from my cars. Towing, heavy passenger/luggage loads, city driving (quick on/off throttle), especially if it is an engine that I know would otherwise ping if given lower grade fuel in these tough situations. Otherwise I run the lowest octane that the mfgr recommends, and the engine doesn't ping regularly on.

Lastly, at one time some premium grades got a better detergent package, but I believe that all grades from the major refineries now get the EFI recommended solvents.

Steve

blane · May 2002

fibber2:

In post #5036 you stated "...some mfgrs that openly state a slightly lower HP rating if you use reg instead of premium..."

While I concur with most of your observations, I'm very surprised to have read that statement. Different officially stated/printed horsepower ratings for the same engine??? That's news to me. Please identify the manufacturers and car models that you know for a fact are subject to multiple horsepower ratings.

leo2633 · May 2002

My wife's 2000 Honda Odyssey is rated at 205 HP on regular, and 210 on premium. I was never able to tell a difference, so we stick with regular. (The '02 Odyssey is rated at 240 HP, but I don't know if there is a different rating depending on octane.)

Len

ateixeira · May 2002

Actually, I've heard the 3.0l H6 in the Subies gets 212hp on premium, 208hp on 87 octane, also.

-juice

fibber2 · May 2002

The other guys beat me to it, but the Honda was my key reference. '99-'01 Honda Odyssey 3.5l carries two HP (205-210) ratings, depending on the fuel used. I have an '02 Ody, which is now rated at 240hp on regular.

But if you study and understand HP and Torque curves, you may realize that this does not tell the full impact of the power reduction. The engine computer builds a map for engine operating parameters, based on recent previous experience. So a test vehicle whose engine is fed regular, then run on a dynamometer for graphing purposes will probably have its overall timing map slightly retarded, compared to one on a premium diet. So at near peak RPM, where HP begins to roll off, the premium fuel engine will show a very slight HP edge. In the 200+ hp example above, 5hp is nothing - not noticeable in common use.

But that is not where we routinely operate. Just off idle, that same engine is probably producing a mere 30-40hp. You just tromped on the peddle, the engine pings, and the computer retards the timing by 10 degrees (maybe more). You can feel the hesitation. I bet you just lost 25% of your available power at that RPM. Maybe you just missed that window in a traffic lane change. This is where premium can buy you something in real world drivability (on some cars)....

So back to my Honda. 240hp rating on regular. But I know that it does ping under some loads. Planning something strenuous? I stop by and add 5 gallons of premium. Now she doesn't ping. Out of pocket cost = $1, plus a few minutes. Peace of mind, priceless!!!

Steve

blane · May 2002

Thanks for the clarifications folks. I stand corrected, never having seen manufacturer-specified multiple horsepower ratings for the same engine/vehicle combination before. It's probably just this sheltered life that I lead.

ateixeira · May 2002

We had to dig deep into Subaru's press releases to find out about that.

-juice

mrdetailer · May 2002

because the octane is generally higher in Japan and Europe. They seem to run smoother.

royallen · May 2002

Though my '95 2.2L manual calls for 87 octane which = regular for flatlanders, in Denver we get 85 and it works just as well. Since octane is a measure of the pressure required for spontaneous combustion, the lower ambient pressure in Denver (and higher altitudes to the west) prevents reaching pressures that would cause detonation with 85 octane. That has saved me some money once I understood the way octane is derived.

postmodern · May 2002

The right side mirror on 5 month old SueBee had a minor altercation yesterday morning with a utility pole just outside my daughter's apt. I (too) carefully parallel parked to avoid a Mercedes (with driver inside) just behind me and as I looked in the left outside mirror, the right mirror housing crunched into the pole at the edge of the curb! The housing is intact and the controls work, but the mirror itself looks like a disco ball. Steph tried to cheer me up as everyone seems to have an altercation sooner or later with either that pole or a nearby tree -- the neighbohood is old and the sidewalk is very narrow. But I'm still bummed out about it -- SueBee is too young to have to undergo cosmetic surgery!

It seems strange that this topic was discussed within the last 100 posts, but it's comforting to know that I'm not alone. It sounds like my best option is to call an auto glass shop. Is there anything special that I should look out for, or mention to the installer? SueBee has the AWP, so the mirror is heated -- does this make a difference?

Lyn

postmodern · May 2002

I haven't had much time lately to follow the Crew forums (work and family have kept me busy), but it's Mother's Day and I can do whatever I want, so here I am. Here's another question... Does anyone get Mobil 1 oil changes at their dealer? If so, how much extra were you charged?

I took SueBee into Curry Surbaru here in Yorktown Heights, NY for her 7500 mile service 2 weeks ago and had them use Mobil 1 rather than dino oil. (We've used Mobil 1 for at least the last 25 years.) My mistake was that I didn't ask what the increased cost would be for the Mobil 1. For years wherever I went for an oil change, from quickie oil/lube places to independent/chain service centers, the additional charge has been $20-25 dollars, so I assumed (silly me) that Curry would do the same. Instead they charged $9.84 a quart extra over the cost of the dino oil -- an additional $49.20!!! When I complained, the service advisor told me that I should expect dealer service prices to be a little higher. The only reduction I could get from him was a $5 deduction for the dino oil. In addition, all under hood fluids were to be checked and replenished if necessary as part of their 7500 mile service. I checked a few days later and the windshield washer reservoir was only 1/2 full, so I doubt that this check was done. At least the tires were rotated. Needless to say, I wasn't a happy Curry camper either when I left the dealership or right now as I'm typing this. I don't have too much trust in the quality of their service dept.

Does anyone have any opinions (good or bad) about the service depts at Prestige Imports in Pleasantville, Rushneck in Tarrytown, Smith-Cairns in Brewster or Wappingers Subaru in Wappingers? Or can anyone recommend a good independent Subaru mechanic in the general area?

Thanks!
Lyn

fibber2 · May 2002

Happy Moms day....

Sorry to hear about the mirror and service problems at Curry. I lost glass years ago on a remote control mirror from a rock thrown up by my mower. But being the stubborn person I am, I cut it from a plate mirror myself and glued it into place. So it is not that hard to get fixed. You can probably determine where the heating element is on your AWP assembly. If it is in the backing plate and still functions, no problem. If it was heater wires on the back of the glass, you will probably have to replace the entire assembly if you want to keep it heated. Do you have the chunks to look at?

Dealers? I had a lousy time at Greer years ago, but since changing hands (now Wappingers), they seem better behaved. Still, insufficient data...
I had wonderful treatment at the Ford side of Colonial, but I remember Gregg mentioning that he was not impressed with the Subi side of the shop.

Lots of luck,

Steve

blane · May 2002

postmodern:

If you are determined to keep using Mobil 1 (and paying very dearly for the marginal, if dubious, advantages) why not buy your own by the case at a discount retailer such as COSTCO? The next time you need an oil change bring a few quarts along and tell your mechanic (Curry) to use YOUR oil and to reduce the price of their oil change service by the amount they usually charge for THEIR dino oil. Voila...no arguments or overcharges. You can do this with the oil filter too.

fibber2 · May 2002

I kind of skipped over that point. Higher barametric pressure (more oxygen molecules per liter of air) does increase octane requirement. I mentioned damp days are OK with cheap fuel. That is partially because of the moisture content that cools the charge (remember water injection?), and because of the lower barametric pressure typical of rainy days.

I came to understand the relationship between octane and pressure when I left Dallas and drove to Colorado Springs with my new EFI Datsun in '80. It was OK going up, but taking the low octane fuel back down was tough on the engine.

That is also why turbo or supercharged engines have their compression lowered, intercoolers to cool the charge, and often require higher octane.

Steve

postmodern · May 2002

Blane,

Yes, I could just bring in the Mobil 1 and have them do it (I asked when I paid the bill).

However, the bigger problem with Curry is the loss of trust that I have in the service dept and that I feel I was ripped off wrt prices. Not adding a 1/2 tank of windshield washer fluid is a small thing, but they were supposed to at least check it as part of the service. They rotated my tires, but I'll bet that the tire pressure wasn't checked (another thing that was also part of the service) -- they were still at 33 lbs when I checked them later in the day (and noone mentioned that they were at a higher then recommended pressure). Overall, a very sloppy visit for which I paid a premium price.

We may complain about quickie lube places, but whenever I've used their services they have always checked all fluid levels. If I can't trust Curry's service dept with the minor things, how can I trust them when a larger service must be done or SueBee really has a problem? If they gouge me on Mobil 1, how much are they going to overcharge me on brakes, or a water pump, or whatever? I want a dealership or mechanic that I can trust. They don't have to be the cheapest, but I have to feel that I can trust them and get value for my money. It sounds simple, but it's not. It's what makes a few dealerships like Flemington in NJ so highly recommended. And it's why I'm looking for another place to bring SueBee.

I'll climb off my soapbox now...

Lyn

postmodern · May 2002

Hi Steve,

Good to hear from you again! Is it time for another meeting of the East Fishkill chapter of the Subaru Owners Club?

Most of the glass is still attached to the backing, but the glass is in enough pieces that it looks like a court jester's shirt! Maybe what I should do is turn on the mirror defroster on the way into work tomorrow and see whether some of the moisture dries up. Hopefully SueBee won't blow a fuse!

Lyn

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