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Comments
Originally I thought I'd just let the dealer do it since the 30k service on these cars is a little more involved than your ordinary FWD vehicle. But, when I saw the $500 price tag I decided that I'd do it myself.
I based what needed to be done on a combination of the recommended service by the owners manual and the recommended items from my dealer (Classic Cadillac and Subaru, Sandy Springs, GA).
The list included lots of the usual inspections, but, it also included flushing and replacing most of the vehicles fluids: Coolant, ATF, brake fluid, engine oil, and front and rear diff oil. It also included other usuals such as cabin air filter, engine air filter, oil filter. And last it included some not so usual...PCV valve.
I ordered all my parts from Liberty Subaru. I got a great deal on the parts including the general information section of the service manual (which is actually not necessary if you buy the H-6 supplement manual which is tremendously handy and comprehensive).
I started off early Saturday morning. I backed the Ody out of the garage and drove the Bean to dump the old oil I had in my catch pan and to get some distilled water to mix with the new coolant. The trip also served to heat up the engine enough for the fluid to be drained nicely. When I returned, I jacked the car up and stood it on 4 jack-stands in the middle of the garage. I proceeded to drain the engine oil first, then the front diff. Both were easy. The ATF was tough...not knowing how much I had drained, it was tough to get the level back correctly since it requires a hot engine that has been run through the gears to get it right...after draining some, then overfilling and a final additional draining, I got it to the exact level required...that took a few days of waiting for the oil to cool, then filling with the engine hot. I will know better next time.
The coolant was especially easy since it drains the entire engine from one location and since the filler nozzle is above any single part of the engine. I only added an addition cup or two to top it off once it'd had a chance to warm up and burp. The brakes went well too. I bought a turkey baster to suck the existing fluid I could out of the reservoir. I then refilled it with new fluid. I attached a 18" length of clear tubing to each drain nipple and opened all of them to let gravity do its thing. I refilled the reservoir numerous times (without letting it drain completely of course) and after about 4-5 refils I closed them all off and had my wife assist me with a typical break bleed proceedure.
I took advantage of all wheels being off the car to clean them up on the inside and out and rotate them.
Once off the jacks, I replaced the cabin air filter (which was dirty but not too bad). Of course, with as much bypass as it allows....well that is another story.
I have not replaced the air filter or the pcv valve because unfortunately, the wrong ones were sent. The good news, though, is that the correct ones are on the way along with a call tag for the incorrect ones. Also, since I had already replaced the engine air filter back at 15k, it wasn't tremendously dirty anyway. (BTW I did vacuum it off with a shop vac, as well as the inside of the filter box, before placing the filter back in.
So all in all, it went very well. I learned some things that will make the 60K mile service easier and saved a lot of money while doing it. I put Mobil 1 synthetic in the crankase as well as the differentials but just regular Dextron III in the ATF. I used Valvoline Synthetic Dot 3 fluid for the brakes and regular ole Prestone.
I strongly recommend the H-6 supplement manual since it covers lots of maintenance type issues as well as some serious engine tear-down/trouble shooting info. It can be gotten for about $90 from Liberty. The general info manual was not necessary but it only cost me $12.
I have always done most of the maintenance on my cars myself, but, at first I was intimidated by the thought of doing all this. Now that I have done it, I am glad I did.
-r
Jim
Funny you asked about that filter crush washer - sorry been off this thread for a few days. I have a hard time with the way this site is organized and confess that in the couple months I've been here there have been a few times where I've grumbled to myself "Where was that thread about the Legacy heater bulbs I posted...?"
The reason it's funny is that yesterday I bought a couple more factory oil filters and I intentionally did not ask for the little seal crush washers they'd give me the first time. Sure enough the parts guy was careful to put one in with the filter and I asked him to again show me where it goes. It's a normal crush washer, and on the factory oil filter there's a circular depression it fits into around the threaded center hole. The bulge goes against the block as would be standard crush washer practice on a drain plug or other. So, seemed like unprompted reinforcement of this feature. I asked him why a Fram or other aftermarket filter for my car did not have this feature and he didn't know.
Before posting, I went to the garage and carefully looked at one, comparing it to the factory Toyota LandCruiser filters I also have out there. It's quite clear that the crush washer is a part of the Subaru filter design and without it there would be considerable bypass opportunity for the oil to avoid the filter as the result of a sizeable gap where the washer should be. The gap would be on the order of a sixteenth of an inch and that's a lot of oil bypass. By comparison, the LandCruiser filter (also a very high quality factory unit that I special order from a dealer who hoarded the last few hundred cases of the original good ones before Toyota sold out and went to a generic fits-all strategy a year ago) uses a metal flange that is clearly designed to mate with the same surface on the block the Subaru's does around the center threaded hole. The flange is designed to flex and create a tight seal as it contacts the block.
So, this is a very interesting finding and I'm glad you asked me about it. Next time I'm in the auto parts store, I'm going to bring a straight edge in and see if the aftermarket filters indeed would leave a gap as I surmise without some type of crush washer strategy. It would be a simple matter to see if they have a flexy mating surface, and if the filter's mating surface is close enough to the plan of the rubber perimeter seal to hit the block and seal off oil bypass. Can you imagine? The aftermarket filters could be made in such a way that they don't effectively filter due to their generic design?
On the 30k service described above - bravo! Well done. You didn't mention what you saved, but it has to be in the $400 range, eh? One quick comment - be sure to use the bleeder to purge any air from the cooling system if there is one - look for a black circular plastic piece the size of a dime with a deeply embossed cross on it. You used the word 'burp', so you may already know about this feature. Anyhow, well done.
IdahoDoug
My uncle was a Gulf Oil distributor and eventually went independent. He said his tank truck would pull up in line with the Shell and Standard(at the time, now Amoco/BP). They distributed the same fuel to all companies.
The power of marketing...TC
I have had three right rear bearings replaced on my vehicle. This past Saturday I had the car at the dealership to have the catalytic convertor replaced under warranty and I asked them to checkout the noise coming from the rear of the vehicle. The diagnosis was a failing LEFT rear wheel bearing. The service guy said to expect a $400 bill to replace the bearing.
Does anyone have any experience with after market bearings on this vehicle, i.e. cost & reliability? Does anyone have a good way to determine if the failing bearing is on the left- vs right-hand side?
I have been driving for 35 years. In all of that time I have had 5 wheel bearings go out - four of them were on my current vehicle!! I can't believe that I have just been lucky up to now - it's got to be the car!
Supposedly, either the current Imressa or legacy bearings would fit the Forester, and are much more stout.
If you scroll up a few posts (20+), this item is talked about at length.
I am sure some of the more informative and technical posters on this board can fill you in, and correct me if I am wrong.
which is crazy. A week later, ANTOHER check eng light .. this time 420 "Catalyst below threshold #1 side" ... I've had it reset but, suspect that this latest prob may be the result of the earlier one and hope it will "pass" (not come back "on").
Any similar experience with multiple codes ??
Call 800-SUBARU3 and ask for them to open up a case. I bet they'll provide some help. At least push for the newer replacements.
-juice
I'm not clear on whether you replaced the cam sensors or??..
The second code could be the result of pumping raw gas into the cats, but I don't understand why it would have taken a week for the engine to throw a code or it.
IdahoDoug
Patti
Howard
I'm still furious that i couldn't remove the drain plug myself. Granted i was using just a short, cheesey socket wrench, but i couldn't budge the thing. Had to call a friend and he takes it off without missing a beat and patronizingly says "it was on too tight" ... uugh ... what's a girl to do ... more push ups i guess.
Or a breaker bar that can slide onto your socket wrench.
When you reinstall the plug, use a crush washer and only use enough torque to crush that washer.
-juice
First things first, you should change the oil at 3k miles. Go ahead and get a filter now, Purolator makes the OE filter, or grab one from a dealer. Plus 5 quarts of 10w30 oil, and oil pan, a crescent wrench to remove the drain plug. Grab a 17mm crush washer from the dealer or parts store, too. You may (or may not) need an oil filter wrench. I can usually get them out by hand. Make yourself a check list.
When you are ready, we'll show you photos and tips for changing the oil.
That ought to build your confidence. At 7500 miles you should do another oil change and rotate your tires as well. For that you'll need a torque wrench, and I'd recommend a floor jack, but I say tackle one task at a time, so don't worry about that until closer to the time you do it.
-juice
First, good news! I'm looking at buying a 2000 Forester with 25k (UK) miles on the clock.
My wife and I are pretty made up about the car - right size, shape, versatility, kit - but (bad news) all the issues about wheel bearings are worrying me. I don't really want a car that requires me to spend $400 plus every 30k miles or so!
So I'd really appreciate some help with the following:
- When exactly did the bearing spec change between 00 and 01 models? Is there a VIN number from which they are OK? What is it?
- Is the new bearing/assembly available for fitment to an earlier vehicle?
- If so, is it standard procedure to do this on (warranty) failure on the bearings now? Or are the old sort still fitted? (I assume retrofit might be expensive if hub etc have to go)
- Does the tech bulletin issued on careful fitment of the old type of bearing mean that dealers can fit these accurately now?
- (I know this is difficult as I'm in UK) - is Subaru practice to replace bearings free of charge once the warranty has run out, given all the issues? Could/should I push for a warranty extension on these?
- I'm also keen to know if the clutch gremlins (seem to be on '98 models) was fixed by '00.
Many many thanks for any help you can give
I hope to be a proud owner any time now...
Jon
That was a little detail that you left out. Washing the engine with a car wash spray or pressure washer at home is a very, very bad idea. All over your engine is dust. Dust that came from the engine operation itself, and from a road covered with dust from millions of other engines. What that dust has in it in unusual abundance is metal. Metal that can short things out, cause stray electrical currents in areas previously insulated, etc. By pressure washing, you're blasting this stuff into crevices, electrical connections, under seals, in components, into bearings, etc.
There are also combustion byproducts that create acid when mixed with water, a potential for the pressure to knock connections a bit loose, etc. Enough about this - I think you get it by now.
If you've got to have that sparkling clean engine bay, use one of those foaming cleaners and cover your major electrical components with saran wrap. Then use a gentle spray of water on a cold engine to remove the foamy stuff.
The gas additive cleaner may also have something to do with it. Perhaps the catalyst was on the way out and you took a few thousand miles off its life by suddenly freeing up a bunch of grundge from the cylinders that overwhelmed it. I've heard of cleaners causing codes to pop up. Don't know. But you might try a nice hour long drive on the freeway with premium gas to see if the catalyst can burn itself clean - which it is designed to do. Then reset the code and see if it comes back.
Jon
I changed the engine oil to Mobile 1 5w-30, and both of the differentials to Mobile 1 75w-90. The ATF remained the same with a Dextron III grade Quaker State oil.
Could it be the oil? Or is it possible the gas blend has something to do with it?
BTW this is on an '01 Bean.
-r
Good dealers will use the TSBs to install it right the 2nd time around. I'm not sure about dealers in the UK. I'm also not sure how long your warranty lasts.
The clutch got incremental improvements through the years. My wife's 2002 seems better than my 1998, FWIW.
-juice
Just my 2 cents.
Len
Len is right, I stand corrected. Mine has been OK because it's never over-tightened - I torque it down myself with a torque wrench. So the forces aren't great enough to strip any bolts.
But if it's tight, definitely use a socket.
-juice
It has been hotter than ever around here so I actually have been using the A/C a lot.
I will continue to monitor the mileage and update....at the rate I consume gas, I fill up very regularly.
BTW although the vehicle will run fine on regular, I have mostly used 93 octane premium. Esp. since our Ingles grocery store sells it for $.07 off on Tuesdays.
-r
Oil Plug -- another popular alternative to the standard oil plug is the Fumoto Drain Plug -- it has a small valve that you can open to drain oil without removing the plug. I don't have the URL, but a Google search should bring it right up.
oclvframe -- I also noticed a small, but measurable increase in my gas milage (~1mpg) when I switched to synthetic oil. Also, don't discount warmer weather for better milage and the fact that your gas milage does improve as the engine breaks in (still possible even at 30K).
Ken
On the oil plug, are you guys using crush washers on your drain plugs? This is the proper thing to do but a lot of dealers and most chain lube stops generally don't put fresh ones on for you. I've used these religiously and you don't have to crank the drain bolt at all for a leakproof seal. Comes off easily, too.
IdahoDoug
Ken
-Frank P.
-r
-juice
was a lease vehicle in a fleet, 43k miles, and
the carfax looks ok, but there's a recall on the
air flow sensor on the master brake cylinder.
I've read that this is common on some foresters,
but I'm curious what you all think, is that a problem,
or should I go ahead with buying this car?
I've been searching for one for a few months now,
so I really want one at this point, but I don't want to
make a terrible mistake.
Test drive it and do listen for any drive train whine, which would indicate bad bearings. If it's quiet at 43k miles, you're probably fine. They would have failed by now, most likely.
-juice
Hear that Crew... one of the few advantages to living in GA.
-Frank P.
-juice
Mike
-Frank P.
Having glanced through and read many of comments in this section, I feel I've come to the right discussion area to get good sound advice. I have a 2001 OB VDC and living in the hilly area of Pa I find myself using the shifting settings with the gear selector for upshifting (I love it!) more and more frequently rather than just letting the tranny do it's designed shifting for me. My question....am I going to upset a computer, a memory setting of somekind, or any other mechanical device by doing this? I rarely let the engine turn over 4,500 r.p.m.'s at any time even during passing. I am a mechanical idiot and want my car to last but I really like us the "automatic" as a "stick" shifter. All comments appreciated. I know that a stick shift would be more to MY liking but unfortunately this model comes only with auto and besides that, my wife refuses to learn to drive using a manual tranny. Thanks to all, Flasks
Not sure about the tranny, I'd use manual mode only when I was driving aggressively. I don't think it's meant to be used all the time, like the new Shiftronic on the 2.5 GT models.
-juice
-mike
PS: I'm back to all ATs now
BTW, since switching to synthetics all around, I have not seen any major improvement in mileage. This may be attributed to doing more city driving with the AC on most times. Hopefuly as it cools down, I'll see improvement.
Mark
Thanks in advance. . .
David
I'd let the dealer do this if you're still under the 12 month/12k mile adjustment period.
-juice
Mr. detailer - thanks for the feedback, i wish i had experiences this positive with the dealer you mentioned, but many times I haven't.
It's been very inconsistent with them - in short, if i know what's wrong with the car and i tell them explicitly what to do, they have done an ok job. When it comes to diagnosis, i've been very disappointed. I've been misled and told very contradictory things by different people there. Simple things have been done incorrectly. Oh well, I guess your mileage may vary. Good to hear that you have had good experiences with them. I have little to no experience with the other dealers along the Wasatch front so I can't really compare. I guess that's a good thing; if one had lots of experience with dealers and repair shops it would indicate that Subarus aren't very dependable.
Good to see another UT Subaru driver posting. There's tons of them out here.
Juice, what do you mean by adjustment period? Don't they fix for you after 12 months/12k miles?
Celica