Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

fibber2 · February 2005

Old enough to remember the term "brakes worn down to the rivets"? Before today's 'bonded' brakes (friction material epoxied to the backing plates), they were held on with recessed rivets. They were better attached, but you lost about 30% of the thickness. Guess wrong about the amt of pad remaining, and the rivets made grooves in your rotors!

Steve

locke2c · February 2005

I would highly doubt the 30% increased efficiency claim. Even if the science were sound, which I disbelieve to begin with just like Pat as said, I wouldn't expect but a fraction of that.

~Colin

ateixeira · February 2005

Could be diffy noise, but try this suggestion from our SoA rep:

Find an open parking lot, then drive in a figure 8 a few times.

Make sure the tire pressures are even, also.

-juice

hypov · February 2005

come to think of it.
Even if it works as advertised, there isn't any savings.

-Dave

lfdal · February 2005

Picked up th wife's 03 OBW yesterday. They put a factory rebuilt auto tranny in it. Drove it for quite a spell last night and today. The whine is gone. Totally. Whisper quiet gearing in line with my Forester XT.

Also looks like they replaced the accelerator cable to deal with the "stuck" high RPM's she had. So far so good.

We can both smell some burning gear oil. I'm hoping they slopped it on the case and its just burning off. If I get a chance I'll put it on the ramps tomorrow and check it.

Here's a question for those most familiar with the piston slap noise. With this car, when cold, if you put the engine under load in "D"rive you'll get a real "hammering' sound. It goes away as soon as you unload the engine. At idle when cold the nose gets louder when you raise the RPM's but tends to drop off with the fall in RPM's.

From what I understand of piston slap I should get a lot of noise when I unload the engine.

I have no intention of giving this up yet as the engine is downright embarrassing to be driving when cold.

Can anyone describe what should make the piston slap noise louder and softer?

TIA

Larry

pavery99 · February 2005

Sorry to say we are leaving the ranks of Subaru owners. Final thoughts -
A lot of good people are working very hard at Subaru to make an affordable enthusiasts car - boldly different from the crowd. The Outback does most things very well - great on snow and ice, nice for long road trips, excellent around town. We simply couldn't afford to keep a car with a high probability of failure. Blowing a head gasket on a vehicle at 18000 miles was upsetting, but the treatment by SOA was unforgiveable. Please put things right for the rest of your loyal customers.

aka5505sic · February 2005

My son has a 2000 Impreza 2.5RS that seems to eat batteries. The car only has 32,000 miles on it, and the OEM battery was replaced just prior to the expiration of the warranty in February 2003. As you can tell by the mileage, he doesn't drive much (currently in college in north central Pennsylvania), so the car will often sit unused for a couple of weeks at a time. Just got a call - another no-start situation. He's in the process of finding a jump, but do the Imprezas have a rep for eating batteries? Seems that 2 of them in 32K of driving is a little excessive.

crashton6 · February 2005

You said your sons cars sits for weeks at a time. Even while it's sitting it's using batter power. The clock, the radio & if he has an alarm that too. Batteries aren't meant to be discharged all the way. When that happens it shortens the batteries life. My wife has been driving my old Forester this winter to keep some miles off her Audi. If it sits for more than a week we get a no start too. Maybe he should drive his car once a week to keep things charged up. I don't think it's his car just the conditions it be used under, or rather not used.

Chuck

rob_m · February 2005

Larry, I am not sure if the 03 2.5 is plagued with the piston slap problem. I have noticed that over time, my wife's 03 Outback (2.5 sohc auto, 18k) seems to be getting louder in the cold and engine noise seems to be lasting longer. The engine made noises for a good 15 minutes this morning.

The piston slap noise is prevelant when starting the car when cold. It is definitely a distinctive knocking sound.

My 99 GT sedan (2.5 dohc auto, 120k) sounds different than the 03 when started. The engine knocks away like a diesel for about 5 minutes, then quickly quiets down.

Hope this helps. Rob M.

c_hunter · February 2005

Is it cold where you live?? The transmission will delay shifts when it's cold -- until it warms up. This is an intentional thing -- it helps the trans fluid warm up quicker. Once warmed, the shifts should feel pretty good.

Having driven in lots of Subarus and Toyotas over the years, I think their auto transmissions are both pretty good when compared apples to apples.

Not sure about the whine -- maybe you could give us more details?? My wife's 03 Forester made a soft whine I associated with gear noise, but it was perfectly normal in my opinion. Didn't seem like anything to worry about and we never had any problems. The boxer engine also makes a purring "whir" noise. If you rev it in neutral, you should hear that (and know it's not a tranny noise).

Craig

lfdal · February 2005

Rob - Sounds like the same way my wife's started out, also at about the same mileage. Its just getting louder and for longer. Had no trouble hearing it last summer in the mornings when the temps were in the 50's and 60's. Its been getting steadily louder as time goes by.

I know Subaru's stance is that piston slap won't hurt the engine, but in that case why is my aluminum wear in that engine 5 times higher than the average Subaru engine Blackstone analyzes?

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I'm going to keep after them for a while yet. If my next oil sample comes out even higher in aluminum, I'm going to start really squawking.

Larry

vanslam · February 2005

Yeah i'm guessing the whine is normal. I'm very picky about cars thats why i have been so into Toyota's, i'v never had any problems with them. I hope this 05 Forester proves to be asa good a the Toyotas are. I've heard that they are spose to be.

You said the "The boxer engine also makes a purring "whir" noise." I noticed that, i guess thats normal too???

Thanks for your info. I really like these forms helps me learn about the ins and outs of Subarus.

Jason

fibber2 · February 2005

Occasional use cars can be a real problem for battery longevity. Even if the alternator puts out full, it could take several hours of driving to fully charge a near dead battery. So the net is that the battery it is probably running at 50% or below most of it's life.

Consider hooking it up to a charger whenever practical to bring it up to full. If it can get parked near an outlet occasionally, maybe install a permanently mounted trickle charger.

Steve

luck11 · February 2005

I have no luck with my 05 OB XTL. Some ingnorant @#%@$%@ scratched my hatch with what was likely a ski or a ski pole while I was skiing yesterday.

Sometime ago, someone posted a link to a product that is used with touch up paint to fill scratches. Can't seem to find the post. Can anyone recall the product?

Thanks.
Jay.

lfdal · February 2005

In post 4784 I mentioned we picked up the OBW with a factory remanufactured transmission in it. Also mentioned smell of burning gear oil.

Didn't get a chance to check it this weekend, but did notice lots of drops of gear oil after the wife pulled out of the driveway this morning.

Called the dealer and then took time out from work to drive it in. A test plug had a defective o-ring. Didn't know there was a test plug for the diff oil, but okay.

Anyway, tranny pan and lots of the rest of the bottom of the car was covered in gear oil. They replaced the o-ring, pressure cleaned the underside of the car with some chemical then rinsed it off, and now the odor seems to be gone. Don't know about the leak yet.

Of course, given the state of my driveway it might take me a while to sort out any new leaks from the stuff this weekend.

Gives me a lot of faith in the rest of the Factory Remanufactured unit.

Not.

Larry

dcm61 · February 2005

Some ingnorant @#%@$%@ scratched my hatch with what was likely a ski or a ski pole while I was skiing yesterday.

Probably a hired hit by the snowless (and jealous) Pacific Northwest crew. ;-)

BTW, sorry to hear about the mishap. :-(

DaveM

reservoirfrog · February 2005

Hello,

I have a 98 Subaru Forester with 89K miles. I have owned the car since 2001, when it had 43K miles. The brakes have always been squeaky, and I have been assured several times that they are safe, just sqeaky. Also, I have been told that the rotors have been turned as many times as they can be, and that I'll need new ones when the time comes.

I have not had anything done to the brakes since I bought the car, but I figure I must be "due" for some sort of maintenance. Plus, I have a baby on the way and I want to make sure my car is as safe as possible before then!

So, I need some advice. A mechanic told me not to go to Les Schwab or any other generic wheel/tire maintenance place because they'll replace all of the original Subaru brake parts with their own, which are of a lower quality.

Conversely, I'm hesitant to go to the dealership because I know they are going to charge much more than I'm used to spending for brakes, and I'm afraid they'll sell me much more than I really need.

So, I could use some advice! Is it worth it to go to the dealership and pay out the wazoo, just so I can have Subaru manufactured parts for my brakes? Or am I ok to go to a less expensive shop where I will get generic brake parts that may have to be replaced more often?

luck11 · February 2005

Thanks. I have since found the post. It's called Langka...... www.langka.com.

Jay.

kens · February 2005

I'll offer a third option -- buy the pads and rotors yourself and go to an indpendent mechanic to have it done.

There are many Subaru dealers that do internet/mail discount parts business. Carter Subaru and Subaruparts.com are two examples.

Replacing the brake hardware on a Subaru is no different from any other vehicle so any competent mechanic should be able to handle it. If you're brave enough, you probably could do it yourself.

Ken

reservoirfrog · February 2005

Thanks Ken - that's a great compromise! I can't say I'm brave enough to do it myself, and I'm not sure about my husband...but I do know of an independent mechanic who could probably help out. This guy works on domestics, but I'll take your word for it that brakes are fairly simple and straightforward.

Thanks again!

kens · February 2005

My two cents on piston slap after having it on my 98 Forester:

- The noise is more prevalent with colder ambient temps.
- The noise appears within a specific RPM range and is present with or without load on the engine.
- The noise is a hard metallic knocking directly tied to RPMs.
- I didn't believe Subaru's line about it being a non-destructive noise. Metal-on-metal has got to cause some type of wear.
- While they've tweaked their design, I do believe some later model engines still could be susceptible -- it's all a tolerance issue.
- If you do have the problem addressed, try and get both pistons and short block replaced. New pistons in an older block may result in ring seating problems leading to higher oil consumption.

Ken

c_hunter · February 2005

Toyotas are more consistent with quality in my opinion, but if you have a "good" Subaru it will definitely match the Toyota experience.

Yeah, the boxer has a unique growl/purr/rumble sound depending on how the exhaust plumbing is set up. I really like it, after years of driving Hondas which are nice too, but not very interesting. In contrast, the boxer has a lot of character.

Craig

lfdal · February 2005

I'd second Ken's idea, especially since you seem to have a good independent mechanic - you can get the parts locally or online (usually cheaper online but you need to see how much they charge for shipping rotors up front). Still probably cheaper online. Sounds like you're pretty easy on the brakes so I'd stick with the OEM Subaru pads and not worry about upgrading to a higher performance (some of us are a wee bit harder on brakes than others)

HTH

Larry

lfdal · February 2005

Ken - Thanks for the response. Too bad we don't know what percentage of engines that's a problem with, but I doubt that statistic will ever become public.

I'm going to re-sample the oil in about 2000-2500 miles and get another Blackstone report. Then if the Aluminum is still climbing I'll go from dealer -> district rep -> SOA case...... and whatever else I can do.

Wrong is wrong, and being in a state of corporate denial doesn't make it better. I can't think of any sane person that would be willing to purchase that car once they hear that engine, regardless of whatever piece of paper Subaru gives out denying there's a problem.

For now I'm just going to see how the new transmission hangs together. This weekend's oil leak was an inauspicious start. Not to mention my driveway now looks like crud.

Thanks again,

Larry

jopopsy · February 2005

Hey Gang:

Long time no see for the most part. Hope you all are doing well. I have a question for ya though.

Today its snowing like mad (Noreaster up this way) and I'm getting out of work early all excited about jumping in my Subie. "This thing is MADE for this stuff !!!" I'm thinking to myself. Hop in, turn the key, car cranks and cranks and cranks. Nothing happens. My mood is immediatly souring. I hop out and clean off the car (figure let the car settle down again before I try the second time). Hop back in, and I have to leave it cranking for a good 7-10 seconds before it turned over (weakly I might add). Once I got started all was fine.

2 things were differant today then any other day:
A. The car nose was pointed down (normally I park level or w/ the nose pointing up). *I've had a Nissan Altima which refused to start when parked pointing up for a long time, I wonder if this is a similar deal*
B. Car just got serviced for its first oil change (the dealer did his inspection, lube, etc. deal to it as well).

Before you ask or advise, I ALWAYS pressurize my fuel pump/line before I crank. I wait for the whirring sound to stop before I go cranking the engine.

I smelled some faint burning for a short spell and saw some bluish smoke come out the tail pipe.

Somebody please tell me if this is a one time/rare thing or if this car is going to give me ajada?

Jopopsy

PS Hey Juice !!!!

stever · February 2005

I had that happen a couple of weeks ago. But I was the klutz who dinged my Outback with my board edge.

We had lousy visibility today, but 2 inches came down as we were skiing and the snow was great. I remembered to lower the windows on the Outback in the garage when we got home - hauled lots of wet gear today. A few times it's gotten a bit musty inside the cabin.

Steve, Host

ateixeira · February 2005

On that dying battery, if I thought the car was going to sit for 2 weeks, I'd disconnect the battery completely, just unplug the negative battery terminal. At least it won't slow-discharge itself to death.

But read more below.

Frog: consider getting a Chase Subaru credit card, you earn Subaru bucks, 3% of purchases, and can pay for service that way. I have $200 already, another $100 should come next month.

Jopopsy: did you pressur.....never mind. ;-)

OK, the ugly truth is the OE battery is sorta weak to begin with. In bitter cold it's barely adequate. The OE battery on my '98 Forester had something like 260 CCAs, I replaced it with a battery that has more than double the amps, and it starts up better now.

Wal Mart cheapier, $50 or so IIRC.

-juice

samiam_68 · February 2005

Subaru OEM batteries suck. Get a Diehard - the problem will never re-occur.

occking · February 2005

I have had my 21.5i ltd for two months now and notice the same thing. It starts ok in cold weather, but can tell the battery doesn't have a lot of "oooommmph" in it. I do a lot of traveling for work & spend approx $1000 per month on travel expenses. Have had the Chase card for around 6 weeks now and already earned $40 with another $20 or so coming with my next statement. I believe it is $500 maximum per year so letting my wife use the card as well (is that a wise move?) so will easily get the $500 maximum per year. Too soon to tell is I will use what I earn towards another Subaru & won't cross that bridge for a few years, but the $500 per year should pay all of the maintenance for the vehicle. Got one year's worth of free oil changes when I got the vehicle & bought 100,000 five year protection plan 0 deductible for $899. That was a special they had in late December. Also, for those of you that tavel a lot, get a AAA Visa Card & you can get 5% back on gasoline purchases (if you pay at the pump) n Any way to save money.....

mrk610 · March 2005

I have a 02 obw .I have had the slap noise since 6k miles . It got progressivly worst as the miles were added . It would knock in all temps on start up. I got my dist serv rep involved ,and when my car slapped at all temps he decided to try the countermeasue pistons #2 and #4 pistons (drivers side ). They were installed at 41k miles . During this time I had my oil checked by blackstone labs and all my levels were normal or below normal. I was able to see my engine when they were installing the pistons .I was kinda suprised at what little wear there was . The cylinder walls after knocking (load hammering sound ) had no wear on at all . The pistons had very little wear also on them . The moly coating on the pistons were only worn off around the wrist pin area . The dist rep said that those 2 pistons wear the coating off because the trust of the piston has a downward force and the pass side has an upward force. I now have 52 k on my car and this winter it started knocking again . Not nearly as bad and the noise goes away within 1-3 mins . I also had my oil sent to blackstone labs and even after the engine work my levels are still normal to below normal. I use mobil 1 10w30 and sub filter with 5k mile intervals for changes .

Mike k

ateixeira · March 2005

If you let your spouse use the card, you might earn rewards quickly, or go bankrupt in the process!

)

-juice

oneduckstwo · March 2005

So I picked up a 02 WRX wagon with 30k from a L.A. dealer about a year ago and have frequently noticed a noise on "colder" mornings that I would assume is this "piston slap" as it goes away after a few minutes and is matched to rpms. I now have 45k and I'm not sure if I should be nervous about it or not? It would seem after mrk610s post that I shouldn't but I don't plan on living in the warmth of L.A. forever and would imagine it would get worse? Any thoughts?

c_hunter · March 2005

That is excellent advice; I also try to remember to crack the windows after skiing. In the past, I have come out the next morning to find frost in my car from the condensation that refroze!

CRaig

lfdal · March 2005

Interesting - this fits in with the Subaru party line of "It makes noise but doesn't cause any wear on the engine". This is verified by your Blackstone results.

Wish that was the case with my wife's OBW. Looking forward (I think) to the re-sample in 2000 miles or so. Would like to see the aluminum back to normal or off-scale high.

Meanwhile, the gear oil stench burning off from the rebuilt transmission is enough to gag the proverbial maggot. Kind of glad I parked on fresh snow tonight so I can see if there's fresh traces of gear oil on the ground in the morning.

I know the underside got covered from the leak, including the exhaust/cat shields. I hope that's all I'm smelling.

Onward

Larry

c_hunter · March 2005

Gear oil is pretty strong and foul. Let's hope it goeas away soon!

Craig

marys · March 2005

I purchased a 2005 Forester last August. Already I have had a tire blowout - not covered by Subaru or Yokohama (according to customer service reps) and now the thin vinyl material covering the rear passenger door has indentations in it from my dog just reaching up to look out the window. I also have a 2002 Forester with rugged upholstery. What is up with the new sissy upholstery on an outdoorsy car? Subaru won't cover any repair. I am ready to sell my new Forester as well as my 2002 Forester and get a Toyota, which is what I should have bought in the beginning. Shame on you Subaru for cheapening your cars!

lark6 · March 2005

I can't speak to your tire problem, as you've provided no information here. Your upholstery problem did get my attention, as I also own a 2005 Forester. I don't have a dog but I do have a small child, so I am interested in the long-term durability of the interior materials.

Before buying the '05 Forester I had a 2000 Forester. The door panels on the '00 were covered with a multicolored velour that wore a lot faster than the textured vinyl on the '05. Granted that was the result of wear and tear that came from arms rubbing on the material, rather than the type of punctures that a dog's claws might make, but just an observation.

Your comments do raise several questions:

1. Have you considered using a dog guard to keep the dog in the cargo area of the cars? They're available both from Subaru as an accessory and in the aftermarket. I don't know that a guard that fits the '02 would also fit the '05 though, so you may have to buy two.

2. You say the '02's upholstery is rugged; why not just carry the dog in the '02 and not the '05?

3. Do you know for certain that whatever Toyota you buy will have upholstery as durable as, if not more durable than, either Forester? To sell two cars with interiors that are known quantities to buy one that may be an unknown quantity is a gamble, especially since you consider the '02 interior to be rugged. If there are no other problems with the '02, why not just hang onto it? It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

In any event, good luck. I'd be interested to hear more details on the '05 interior and just how it was damaged.

Ed

ateixeira · March 2005

My wife won't come close when I'm wearing gear oil cologne.

marys: how 'bout a blanket for the dogs? Those nails can dig in and scratch anything.

-juice

mrfc · March 2005

i have a '99 forester with 113K miles and i am the original owner. i have had no problems with the exhaust system so far. recently the exhaust started sounding like there was a hole in the system somewhere (low-toned sound to the exhaust).
upon inspection the pipes, muffler, etc. look solid. someone who looked at it indicated there may be a gasket where the exhaust pipe bolts into the system underneath the front seat area which may be bad thus causing the noise. any thoughts on this?

once_for_all · March 2005

also, look for a small rust hole in the bottom of one of the mufflers (usually the one in the back). All modern efficient cars emit water vapor, and water can collect at a low spot in a muffler if temps aren't hot enough to vaporize it (ie lots of short trips on cold days).

I have had to replace mufflers after 8 years because of this problem.

John

locke2c · March 2005

gear oil smells like dead fish, so yes that's a lot worse than dog breath...

~c

fibber2 · March 2005

Previous dog, previous car.... Max once got so frustrated by something going on outside, he chewed holes in a rear door panel!

Steve

lark6 · March 2005

Ah, okay! I have that problem on the Pennsylvania Turnpike some days.

No harm, no foul.

Ed

frog · March 2005

Here's a tale for ya,

I was driving on the interstate after swimming up my 2 mile dirt road that had over a foot of fresh powder on it. Unplowed, as usual. My car started to shake on the interstate above 50mph, due to buildup in the wheels of snow as I should have known. I took it to the local Subaru in Bath Maine, though not MY dealership in Augusta.

To go back, at 7000 miles I had my wheels rotated in Augusta per recommends. After the rotation my wheels whined above 50mph and so I took it back a couple weeks later being an hour away. They drove it twice, changed the air pressure and sent me home. The car was perfect before the rotation.

So the wheels acme off this weekend at 11K miles and the dealer said the tires were worn to nothing on the front insides. He was correct. 500 dollars later I leave with some new Coopers which I love but feel let down by my dealership. I am descouraged the nice stock tires (some may laugh) only got 11K. I did get the allignment under warrantee. I should have kept the tires, but don't think I will get any help from my dealer. Sucks to be me. How could the car have lost its original allignment during a rotation? I BABY the car and have only recently rung it out in the dirt and snow a few times....

poopoo!

bkaiser1 · March 2005

One thing to check is that the airbox under the hood is closed/sealed tightly...It's very easy to misalign the tabs when reattaching it, and if it's not completely sealed, the car will make a low, moaning sound as you drive. I have had it happen to my Outback, my WRX, and a friend's Forester...

Brian

ateixeira · March 2005

11k is pretty darn early for tires. Oh well, the OE tires are only so-so anyway, better tires help a lot.

I got 28k out of mine, but I actually wanted to get rid of them sooner!

-juice

c_hunter · March 2005

Well, if it helps you any, my neighbor's 04 Toyota 4-runner interior has been pretty well hacked up by their dog so don't go running to Toyota! Personally, I would not let a dog in my car at all except in the back area with a harness and/or guard, where they (and all passengers) will be safer and where the dog is not in contact with upholstery. So you're not getting any sympathy from me!

Blowouts and flat tires are not covered under any warranty, period. This would be the case with OEM tires or tires you buy from a shop. If you think this kind of damage should be covered under warranty, be sure to pay for a road hazard warranty next time around.

Craig

arturs · March 2005

I've just stumbled across this topic after wading through tons of places that advertise rebuilt engines. I have a 98 Forester S. I have had serious overheating problems and the techs could not figure out what was causing it. final diagnosis: cracked block. Dang.

question: any recommendations for a source for a rebuilt engine?

thanks!

hondafriek · March 2005

There is no upholstery ever made that will stand up to a dogs claws scratching at it, so it does not matter what car you buy if the dog is loose in the car expect damaged upholstery.

Our little dog Mac travels in car with a safety harness, it is safer for him and us to have him restrained.

Cheers Pat.

ezshift5 · March 2005

..hondaf's pronouncement nonwithstanding:

...for the last 5 years, my spaniel parks his paws on the window ledge of my '82 VW diesel p/u..it's his pickup.........

..no deleterious marks, gouges or disfigurement noted to date....

..all this and 55 MPG (@55 MPH) too.........ez

..

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