Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

hypov · September 2003

I think the seasoned AutoX'ers/Trackers [which I'm not] can chime in where the belt is twisted before fastening just for that purpose I believe.

-Dave

samlater · September 2003

Dave, I fasten my seatbelt like I've been fastening it for 18 years and many many different cars - over the hips and across the lower abdomen. This is the only car I've ever had a problem like this. The spring on the belt is so strong that it doesn't allow any slack at all - any movement from clutching to hitting small bumps, tightens the belt even more. It's so strong that if you pull it out and let go, it will very painfully slap you across the chest.

Ballistic - I will gladly exchange my belt retractor with yours

Sam.

hywayman · September 2003

Actually we've already tried resetting both ECU's. I guess we could try new injectors, but we've already changed them around several times and the limp home mode hasn't changed any. The same two cylinders cut out.

ballistic · September 2003

Ballistic - I will gladly exchange my belt retractor with yours

The very best diagonal belt arrangement I ever had was on a 1970 Olds Toronado. The lap portion emerged from a retractor outside the seat base (as usual), and the across-the-chest part ended at another retractor in the roof (where a B-pillar would be except that it was a pillarless hardtop). So far, pretty much like current setups. The two differences were that the buckle didn't slide along a continuous piece of webbing - the inner end of the lap belt terminated at the buckle, and the inner end of the shoulder belt also terminated at that same buckle. And, while the shoulder-belt retractor was just that, the lap-belt retractor incorporated a ratcheting lock. To use it, you'd draw the two belts (joined at the non-sliding buckle) across your body to the point where the buckle was ready to click into its receptacle - but then, you'd let the lap retractor pull an inch or two of belt back inside. Then, when you pulled again, the ratchet would prevent any further withdrawal of the lap portion. Then, pull it hard across your hips and snap it into the latch. It was perfect - the lap portion would be as tight - or as loose -as you wished, while the shoulder portion (with a normal inertial retractor) allowed free movement of your upper body.

Hard to describe, but absolutely sublime in operation. I have no idea why they abandoned that layout.

hypov · September 2003

Sam-
Sounds like your seatbelt mechanism is in "accident" mode. From a recent experience, it seems that the belt goes into that mode by tightening [retract] and locking down which would explain the tightening up and not giving.

-Dave

[Deleted User] · September 2003

Today I suffered the downside of AWD: tires. One of my Continentals, with only 20,000 miles on it, was diagnosed with bubbling in the sidewall. Since AWD requires all the tires to be precisely the same diameter, I have to replace all 4 tires. Sigh. There goes another $300 (the one tire was replaced under warranty, and I received a small credit for the other 3 tires with half life).

-Ty

c_hunter · September 2003

If you can order the tire from Tire Rack, I think they can shave it down for you to match the others. All you need is to measure the current tread depth. Worth a call to find out before buying all 4 new tires.

Craig

[Deleted User] · September 2003

Great thought...but no luck. I called Tire Rack and they said they couldn't shave a new tire to match the 7/32" tread depth of my other tires.

I also asked the people at Discount Tire the same thing, which is where I originally bought the tires and had the bubbling diagnosed, and they said they couldn't.

It was good idea, but I guess not enough people need the service to carry the equipment.

c_hunter · September 2003

So does Tire Rack shave to other depths, or just not at all? Do you happen to know the full (new) tread depth?

Craig

[Deleted User] · September 2003

Tire Rack mentioned shaving down to 4/32. My tires are currently at 7/32, which is way too large of a difference. Brand new the tires are molded to 10/32.

-Ty

ameadows · September 2003

I am new to this board. I read several of the previous posts to gain some knowledge on the Forester models.

I need some guidance. I am looking into purchasing a used Subaru Forester - 2001 S model. It has about 40,000 miles on it. When I run the VIN number through CarFax, the report states that there is an open recall on the Engine Control Module. I take it that the previous owner did not have the Engine Control Module replaced.

If I purchase this vehicle, can I just take it to the Subaru dealership and ask for the Engine Control Module to be replaced? Will I encounter any problems at the dealership? Would I have to pay for this replacement? (as it is past the warranty period)

Secondly, is there any other significant problems with this year, make and model? I noticed that there were some posts about wheel bearing problems. Is this a big concern for the 2001 model year Subaru Forester S ?

Any help would be much appreciated. I would also like some input as to what price would be reasonable for the 2001 model year Subaru Forester S (has Sunroof) with about 40,000 miles (Silver color).

Thanks

paisan · September 2003

You could try to find a used tire, or do what I did on my SVX, I was heading to the track within a week, so I put the new tire in the front left which is the one taking the beating at the track I was going to, by the end of the track day, that tire was even with the others

-mike

PS: I hate when I have to go to the track to wear down a tire to match!!!

kens · September 2003

You shouldn't have a problem with a dealer replacing the ECM regardless of the warranty date. However, I wonder if you can really tell if the ECM swap had not been done simply through a CarFax report. The report would list all applicable recalls to a specific year, but I don't think it would be able to access if the recall had been fufilled. A good dealer would replace the ECM during a routine service check.

Probably the more accurate way of assessing what has been done would be to check the VIN with Subaru of America (SOA). SOA can track the services performed on a particular VIN if it were done at a dealership.

The 2001 should be a fairly solid year since it was towards the end of the first generation of Foresters (introduced in MY1998). If you're buying it from a Subaru dealer, you probably could get them to replace the bearings if they were causing noise. I believe there is a TSB out on the bearings.

Try Edmund's TMV pricing for what you're looking for. Prices vary by region -- something that TMV takes into account.

Ken

nygreg · September 2003

ender27 · September 2003

To subaru_team:

I am happy to report that Tom Wood Subaru here in Indy has finally confirmed the elusive clutch-shudder problem on my 2002 Forester S. It has been a long-lived problem that has plagued this car since Day 1, but until now had always managed to disappear when brought to a dealership. Patti (Patty? sp?) was of great help in getting the ball rolling to get this fixed, and they have ordered an updated clutch kit. I was told that they had never seen this problem on a Forester before but that it has been prevelant on WRX's. Anyway, thanks for the help.. I don't have the case number but last 7 of VIN is G745350

georgeinmd · September 2003

That's great. I've seen the TSB on the clutch problem (though I hardly needed reaffirmation after 100,000 mi), but is there any hope for us poor schlubs who are so far out of warrenty that the busses don't even run here? (Local dealer says "no") -- George

jfl · September 2003

Is that a new service AZP is providing?

"Tires adjusted to size."

Jim

ameadows · September 2003

Appreciate your help, Ken.

I will try to call SOA and see if I can get any information on that particular vehicle (through the VIN Number). This vehicle is listed in a local auction. So I don't know much about the history of the vehicle (other than what CARFAX tell me in their report).

By the way, what is a TSB ? As far as the wheel bearings, I test drove the vehicle. No noise. And it looks and drive very clean. My main concern is if this model year has recurrent problems (that I should anticipate in the future).

So if anyone owns a 2001 Forester S, could you please let me know your satisfaction as far as the vehicle you own?? Any recurring problems?

Thanks

ppek · September 2003

ameadows,

A TSB is a Technical Service Bulletin. It is what manufacturers issue to their dealership to make them aware of common problems and how to fix them. These are not safety related, because those require a recall that is made public.

TSB's are not made public, but you can search for information on various sites, including www.nhtsa.dot.gov. However, many sites just give you a quick summary and make you pay to get the details. Depending on the dealership, some are more "up" on their TSB's and some are more willing to share information.

I had my WRX for the the clutch shudder TSB, and it made a world of difference. I have a feeling my dealership would have been unlikely to diagnose and unwilling to repair the problem without that on record.

Take care and good luck.

Paul

ateixeira · September 2003

I see big bucks!

$25 Tire Shaving service.

-juice

samlater · September 2003

Just had the dealer replace the seatbelt assy yesterday. Seems much better now. Still a bit tight, but I can actually breathe and enjoy driving the XT rather than keep yanking and cursing at the seatbelt...lol

cindrome · September 2003

Another moderator suggested I post my problem here for possible suggests. I have a 2000 Impreza Outback Sport with auto transmission with 41,000 miles on it. In the last month when I shift from reverse into drive it can take up to a minute to go into drive - very scary when you back out into traffic. When it finally shifts into drive it can be hard enough to slam me into the seat belt. So far it has happened once a week for 4 weeks.
I took it to the dealer but they say they can't help me because they can't repeat the problem. Any ideas?

Cindy

p0926 · September 2003

A Meadows- No problems at all with my 2001 other than a bad O2 sensor that was replaced under warranty back around the 8-12k mark. I could be mistaken but I've not heard of any wheel bearing problems with the 01 or later. The 01 Forester was slightly redesigned (from the 98-00 model) so maybe Subaru addressed the problem then.

-Frank P.

fibber2 · September 2003

TSB's advise the dealership of a known problem and how to fix it, but do not necessarily imply that they should do it for free. Recalls (either voluntary or forced) are free, but TSPs are usually left up to the dealer to decide. They must first determine the merits (usually based on your past complaint & how far out of warranty you are) with concurrance and approval of the district manager. As each case is usually decided on an individual basis, it pays to approach the dealership with the right 'attitude' if you want them to treat you right!

Steve

mrk610 · September 2003

I have the same problem on my 02 outback . It takes about 2-4 seconds to engage drive . The dealer showed me a tsb from subaru saying that it is normal to take upto 4 seconds to engage . Taking a minute is really long I would take it back and show them the problem meaning you sit in the drivers seat .

Mike k

[Deleted User] · September 2003

Wow, a minute to engage Drive?!

When you're waiting for the transmission to engage, what are you doing? Have you tried wiggling the shifter back and forth in Drive? If you haven't tried wiggling the shifter in the Drive position, definitely try that next time the tranny hesitates. If that little test causes Drive to engage, then you have a bad sensor. If that doesn't help the situation, then the dealer will need to drop the transmission and do a more thorough investigation.

Before the dealer can work on the transmission, though, a mechanic must verify the problem exists. Since this problem is intermittent, you'll have to be incredibly lucky to have the mechanic catch the problem on a single visit. So, there are two things you can do to get around that. One option is to leave the car with the dealer for a week and let a mechanic use it as his/her daily driver, which should be enough time for the problem to occur while he/she is in the driver's seat, but this adds mileage to your car. The second option, which I have used in the past, is to place a video camera in your car and record your driving. The camera will record the sights and sounds of the hesitation, which you can show the dealer.

Keep us posted on what the problem turns out to be. Good luck!

-Ty

joelb · September 2003

I wrote a few days ago about a problem with my 1999 Forester's front wheel(s) making a clunking/grinding noise when the wheels were turned and moving at low speeds (<5 mph) - like pulling into a parking space.

It only happens after the car has been driven for 30-40 minutes. If I let the car sit for an hour then it is OK again.

Axleteria suggested that I check my tire pressure. All four tires were incorrectly inflated, so I corrected them. I drove the car and it seemed like the problem was fixed. However, after further review....

It turns out that the problem is still there.
The noise does seem a little less severe and it seems like I have to drive longer to have the problem occur, but this could just be my imagination.

Does anyone have any ideas on what can be wrong?

I've had many bad experiences leaving my car with my local dealer to troubleshoot problems. I'd like to diagnose this myself and let the dealer know what to fix. I just don't know where to start.

zman3 · September 2003

This may be a long shot, but worth checking out.

This sounds similar to an issue I had. I only noticed my clunk when turning the wheel at low speeds, just like you described. I thought it may be CV joints. After I discovered what it was I did notice it at low speeds even when going straight ahead. My noise was poorly fitting brake pads. There was a little bit of slop between the pads and the spring clips that hold them in place. I was hearing the pad rocking back and forth as I braked. You don't have after market pads by chance, do you? I hear they are more susceptible to this issue.

fibber2 · September 2003

Lets start with a review of the mechanical involved:
1) Your AWD system uses a limited slip center differential in the tail shaft of the tranny to proportion power front & rear. At the front of the tranny is an open differential that proportions power to the left & right fronts.
2) Output from the front diff is by half shafts with inner & outer CV joints that get power to the front wheels.
3) On the lower control arms are wheel bearings connecting the outer CV joints to the wheel hubs.

When you go straight on even pavement (no slip), power flows evenly (yes, there is torque bias, but rotation speed is essentially even) to all 4 corners. A slipping wheel tightens up the system to maintain power flow when rotation speed changes. Turning does the same thing, as all 4 wheels are following a different arc. Different tire pressures again does the same thing, as each corner is always rotating at different speeds.

The center diff takes the most abuse, as its job is to control slip. Rotational differences eventually results in heat that can lead to long term damage.

The front diff is open, and should be able to take a rotational bias, but maybe not?

CV joints do wear, especially if the boots allowed dirt to enter. A large ball bearing must slip between forked shafts to take up the rotational differences & suspension travel. Clunking noises are very common on damaged surfaces on low speed tight turns.

Worn wheel bearings sometimes make more noise when side loading increases, such as during sharp turns. I am not sure if low speed parking would make this much sound without them really screaming at higher speeds.

It would really help if you or someone else knowledgeable with a good ear could walk along both sides to help determine where the sound originates. One of the above mentioned is the culprit, and may or may not be related to the inflation issue, but more to building heat from friction after your hour of use.

Steve

fibber2 · September 2003

that I did not include. Anti-rattle clips and sticky backing pads can allow the brake pads to move and clunk. I also have a Honda that has some carrier slop that clunks when transitioning from forward to backwards and forward again.

Steve

ateixeira · September 2003

Did you try manually putting it in 1 or even 2? What happens then?

-juice

once_for_all · September 2003

I started to post a couple weeks back that your tire pressures weren't abnormal enought to cause (or solve) the problem, but you had posted that the problem went away... not surprised that you bring it up again.

I had a scraping/grinding noise on my Trooper that was due to front wheel bearings...this only happened while braking on a turn, it was more pronounced at low speeds.

Frankly, I would check tire circumferences first, I think you might have one or more tires out of specs. Get your psi at the right amount, then jack up the wheels one at a time and check no load circumference. The tires need to be within 1/4" circumference of each other.

John

once_for_all · September 2003

when you have the front tire up in the air checking circumference, give it a sideways shove to see if the bearing is out. Do this for all 4 wheels. There should be very little detectable play.

John

ameadows · September 2003

Paul (ppek): Thanks for the information on TSB. That was very helpful.

Frank (p0926): Thanks for your input on the 2001 Forester that you own. I am glad to hear that you are happy with your vehicle. Did you have to replace the Engine Control Module (ECM) on your vehicle as part of the recall (for the 2001 Forester)? If so, did the new ECM make a big difference? Thanks.

ateixeira · September 2003

If your OE clutch worked well for the full 60k miles, then I would not reasonably expect a dealer to swap it out for free after that point.

Heck, I've owned two cars where the clutches slipped and needed replacement at that age. It's a wear-and-tear item, and IMO anything beyond 60k has more to do with age and use.

-juice

rangner · September 2003

hey all,

I'm trying to find the heater hose that goes from the firewall to the water pump. I have a MY00 2.5 liter OBW

There's two heater hoses one goes to the front top of the engine and the other goes to the back top of the engine.

I'm trying to use the prestone flush and fill kit to backflush my cooling system. Any experience with this?

Thanks

Eric

wrxfanboy · September 2003

I have a 2004 WRX with 2100 miles on it and I checked the oil level for the first time today after lunch and had a couple of questions;

The car was on level ground. Let engine sit in off position for at least 5 minutes and when I checked the oil there was nothing on the dipstick.

I figured I would check the oil and bam nothing. I almost fainted!! I haven't noticed any difference in the way the car drives, it doesn't blow smoke through the exhaust and there is no oil puddles where I park and the oil light has not come on.

Checked again and there is a tiny bit on the bottom of the stick before the curve in the dipstick. Also I noticed there was some along the side of the stick but not fully across the level. I called the dealership and they say to bring it in and I'm going to but not till Thursday because that's the earliest I can. Anyway I know it's small engine will burn a little oil but like this???? Please tell me the reasoning behind this oil level.

p0926 · September 2003

Doug- Actually, small Japanese-built engines frequently don't burn any oil. As to your oil reading, I can only guess that you're not getting an accurate measurement for some reason. Let us know what the dealer says.

-Frank P.

originalbitman · September 2003

Don't despair. Checking the oil on the flat 4 can be frustrating. I've been there. Everything from level ground to how long the engine has sat after running to how you wipe and recheck effects your reading. Try it again after the car has set for at least ten minutes or more. Pull the stick and wipe it clean. Then reinsert the stick and pull and check. If it is still down add a half quart. It will take a few minutes for the oil you add to drain into the pan. Then check again. It is easy to overfill so be patient.

Better yet you might want to drain, change filter and refill with 4.25 quarts (or whatever your manual says). This way you will have at least a base point to start with. That is what your dealer would have to do in order to get an accurate profile.

bit

ateixeira · September 2003

Check the bottom of the block for leaks at the gaskets, just to be safe. Also check the front main seal, AKA the O-ring around the oil pump, and the rear main seal.

I'd still top it off, though. Better yet just change it now, even if it's early.

-juice

williamskm · October 2003

THis happened with my 2003 Forester. Took it to the dealer and they started and oil consumption test. They filled it up with oil and then started a chart. I took it back after I drove 500 miles so they could check the oil and there was nothing on the dipstick. THis was Monday and on the previous Friday it had been at "L" when I checked it at home. It is now at the dealers and they are going to look at heads and gaskets. I would at least call the dealer and take it in so it can be on record if there is a problem. I have been told that it is within 'normal' limits for a FOrester to use up to 1 quart of oil per 1,000 miles. Any more than that and they say there is a problem.

Good luck
Kim

wrxfanboy · October 2003

for the replies to my message. I checked the the oil pump and gaskets and there is no sign of a leak at all. I put a quarter of a quart of oil in last night and it is now measuring on L. I will check it again after lunch today. Also I plan on taking it to the dealer tomorrow morning and see what they say about this oil consumption.

I am still really worried about it though. I really like Subaru and I hope this doesn't turn into a big fiasco. Any other possibilites that anyone can think of?

Kim a quart of oil every 3000 miles seem really excessive if you ask me. I don't think that is normal consumption for that engine or any engine for that matter. Let me know what they end up doing for you though I am interested to know.

wrxfanboy · October 2003

I meant every 1000 miles for you car Kim!!

lfdal · October 2003

IMO a quart every 3K on a new or broken-in engine sounds like a cop out. Unless you're doing a lot of hard driving, it shouldn't use that much unless its a sloppy design.

I know Subaru says its okay to use that much, for that matter so does Ford on their V6's. None of my Sables every used any oil. I usually traded before the 50K mark so that's where my oil tracking ended on them.

My wifes OBW with 10k has yet to use any oil. It was changed at the 1k, 2k (switched to synthtetic), 5k and 8k. Measured what I took out (OCD sufferer :<) ) and barring filter element retention which isn't much esp with synth, got back about 95% of what I put in.

Larry

p0926 · October 2003

It seems every manufacturer has a "fudge clause" when it comes to oil consumption and I think the 1 qt per 1,000 miles is standard. And yes, in my opinion it absolutely is a cop-out. I know I'd go ballistic if my Subaru was going thru a qt every 1k. Not that it's any consolation but it's been my experience that small block Japanese engines seldom burn oil while big block domestics have been more prone to (at least in the past). Of course even the best manufacturers have a lemon sneak off the assmbly line from time to time.

However, the first order of business is to determine if your vehicle really is burning oil and if so, how much/fast. If it turns out that you really are burning that much oil, I would expect the dealer/SOA to identify and fix the problem (regardless of the fudge clause).

-Frank P.

bkaiser1 · October 2003

On my previous Outback as well as my 04 WRX, I've found the dipstick to be nearly useless as a gauge of oil level. How anyone uses this dipstick to determine "half a quart low" or "slightly overfilled" is beyond me.

After changing my oil last night on the WRX, I checked the dipstick and, surprise, none registered on the stick. None. I know it was in there because I put it there 10 minutes earlier, but the dipstick showed none.

At the other end of the spectrum, my Outback would continually appear to be overfilled...most of the times I checked the dipstick the oil appeared to be WAY past the "full" mark. The WRX will appear overfilled, too, when I check it at gas stations (ie, motor off for a minute or so). Certainly not the most helpful gauge in the car...

Brian

wrxfanboy · October 2003

Does the engine consume more oil during break-in and gradually tail off? I'm thinking because of the break-in it's consuming more oil than normal and will start to level out after the first oil change.

Brian - what you said makes me feel a little better about you changing the oil and still not measuring anything on the stick. I'm still going to the dealer to get this on record though.

jlemole · October 2003

The dipstick also measures differently on either side. You've got to make sure you're on level ground, let the car sit for at least 5-10 minutes. After the first wipe, make sure you get the stick back in facing the right way, and all the way down, then measure from the side with the "L" and "F" on it. And, to complicate matters, you may need to take a few reads.

I've had the same experience as Brian right after an oil change, but usually after the second or third wipe, I seem to get a true reading. It's maddening.

Jon

rangner · October 2003

dave226 · October 2003

Eric- I've drained all coolant via the rad drain with the heater setting set on high. I then refilled with distilled water, warmed up engine and redrained again. I then refilled with coolant. This seems to get most of the crud out without splicing into the heater hose.

I also want to install a block heater onto my 2.5L. The frost plug needs a 13mm allan key for removal but I'm having a hard time finding one. Anyone know of a supplier of such a tool that goes onto a socket wrench for added torque??

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