Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

c_hunter · October 2003

Check out a "real" auto parts store -- this is a fairly typical tool that they probably carry.

Craig

hondafriek · October 2003

I fitted a block heater in My GT wagon and all I had to use was the plain end of a half inch socket extension.

Cheers Pat.

williamskm · October 2003

The dealer called me last night and said they found the problem. They said the PCV valve was stuck open and drawing oil into the intake (Bear with me I am a nurse and a computer tech, not a mechanic :-). THey said this should also solve the rough idle and hesitation I was experiencing. I pick the car up tonight and will post later how it is running.

The dealer still wants to do 500 mile oil checks for the next 2000-3000 miles just to make sure I am not losing oil.

ANd about the "normal" oil usage, I think that is a cop out as well, but Subaru won't authorize any warranty work if it is using any less than the 1 quart per 1,000 miles.
Kim

rangner · October 2003

thanks for the feedback

Eric

wrxfanboy · October 2003

After going to the dealer today they topped off the engine and didn't find any leaks or any other possible causes of my oil consumption. They claim they checked the PCV valve and the gaskets and no signs of a problem.

They basically told me to keep an eye on it until my oil change at 3750 miles. Also if any oil needs to be added they told me to take it to them.

I checked it after about 80 miles of driving today after the dealer visit and it is reading perfect now.

Thanks for the information you guys and gals provided and I will keep y'all posted.

Kim, hopefully that's all it was for your vehicle. Keep us up to date and let us know if anything happens.

stoner420 · October 2003

If it means anything (and it probably doesn't, but I'll share anyhow) I got scared that my tranny fluid was totally gone at one point a while back, but turned out I was just not getting a good reading (it was actually halfway between L and F). My '02 WRX so far burns no oil at all that I can tell (24000 miles today!)

jbur · October 2003

I have a 2003 Forester. Does anyone know what brand of antifreeze is installed from the factory? I need to add a small amount to the reservoir and would like to use the same type that is currently installed.

joelb · October 2003

Well, I think I have finally gotten to the bottom of my wheel grinding problem. Based on your feedback here, I had my CV joints and brakes checked out. The mechanic found the CV Joints were OK, but the front driver side brakes had a faulty piston. This was causing the brake pad to be unevenly applied. There was a difference of more than a 1/4" wear from one end of the pad to the other.

After driving for over an hour and then making slow tight turns I had no grinding noise. Yahoo!

Thanks for everyone's feedback here!

locke2c · October 2003

standard ethylene glycol coolant. the green stuff.

mix 50/50 with distilled water and add.

-Colin

williamskm · October 2003

Picked the car up last night and it feels like a new car. They replaced the PCV valve and also found the #3 spark plug was firing incorrectly so they changed that as well.

When they drove my car up to me, it even sounded differently. The engine has a higher pitch to it. The hesitation is completely gone. I stepped on the gas, expecting it to hesitate and it took off like never before.

The rocking/rough idle is gone now too. All I feel is the vibration of the boxer engine.

The dealer did ask me to keep an eye on the oil and possibly come back every 500 miles for the next 2000-3000 if I notice any decrease.

So bottom line...I liked the car when I bought it but I love, love love it now!

Kim

ateixeira · October 2003

Brand should not matter as long as you use the right type.

FWIW, we once asked Darlene to look into what motor oil came from the factory, and she said they used Havoline. Perhaps they use Havoline coolant also?

-juice

ateixeira · October 2003

You might want to consider changing both brake pads on that axle. I'm not sure I'd want them that uneven. It may not matter. Other opinions?

Great Kim, good to hear that.

-juice

fibber2 · October 2003

Glad we could help.

Joe: A rusted slider or piston that doesn't properly retract will play havoc with brake pad wear. Eventually, when the friction material is worn away, the steel backing pad will act like a lathe on the iron rotor, reducing it to metal shavings! Ask me how I know.....

Kim: That much oil mist being injested into the intake tract (thru the PCV) will eventually foul the plugs. The unburnt hydrocarbons level rises in the catalytic converter, and the oxygen sensors start playing with engine parameters in a vain attempt to compensate. Bottom line is very poor driveability.

Steve

mrwhipple311 · October 2003

I have a 92 loyale that has the parking lights staying on after I shut it off. Anybody had this happen before? Any ideas what the fix might be?
Thanks.

tpham6 · October 2003

Hello:
I just got my OB H6-3.0 wagon last weekend. I just found out that there're a few paint spots that doesn't matched the rest of the car color(Silver Stone). These spots are in the 1/4" diameter and its appearance is darker and lack the metallic look.
As a first time OB owner, please give me some advice and recommendations on how to address this problem.
This's definitely a defects in material/workmanship.
Regards,
Tom P.

ateixeira · October 2003

Wow, most Subies have auto-OFF lights, i.e. you remove the key and they turn off automatically. Yours stay on?

There must be a short somewhere. It could even be related to the ignition.

Tom: my guess is that's acid rain damage, or from sap, maybe even hail that was repaired. Talk to your dealer, they may be able to wet sand it, if not they can repaint, at least the clear coat.

-juice

ozman62 · October 2003

Newer Subies have a switch between the steering wheel and the instrument cluster that controls the parking lights independently of the stalk mounted light switch (and the key). I think it's some Euro requirement. I'm not sure if your older Loyale has this, but if I were a bettin man...
HTH, Owen

mrwhipple311 · October 2003

Thanks for the input, this car has some weird wiring going on with it. I hate tracing down shorts, but...
Do you guys know of any place that I might find the schematic or wiring diagram online?
Thanks

dcm61 · October 2003

Yup, a '92 Loyale would have the separate parking light switch.

DaveM

cmuniz · October 2003

My 90 Legacy had a switch on top of the steering column to turn the parking lights on when the ignition is off. I suggest you find the switch and turn it to off. That should fix it. A friend of mine had the same problem on a 2002 Forester. I told him about the switch and it solved the problem. Don't spend any monny until you at least try that.

jlemole · October 2003

Subaru does have an OEM "Subaru" brand coolant, but I don't know who makes it. I just re-filled with Prestone Green 50/50 Pre-Mix last night.

Jon

mrwhipple311 · October 2003

It was the switch on top of the column. I've had a few Subes in the past that didn't have that switch. My only defense is this is my daughter's car and I don't really know it well. Still--- boy do I feel stupid

Thanks

hypov · October 2003

mrwhipple-
idiot?... nah. Unsuspecting?... yah

Does the '92 Loyale come with remote keyless?

-Dave

forestergump · October 2003

idiot club." I believe I'm a founding member...
-Bob

vetmats · October 2003

I should join your club.

I've had the same thing happen to me on my old '00 Outback. It took me a day or so to figure out the problem. I was taking out the fuse so that the lights wouldn't drain the battery!

ozman62 · October 2003

the 'new' Subaru quirks. Some of the old quirkiness (is that a word?) has been engineered out over the years, so they had to add some new ones.
Regards, Owen

cploeg · October 2003

I posted to this board late in 2002 about continuing problems with my 2002 Forester L and the fact that the dealer blamed the problem on my not driving the car enough.

I bought the car in March 2002, was working at home and not driving every day, and experienced dead battery problems from June 2002 - March of 2003. I finally THOUGHT the problem was resolved. Not by the dealer but by my getting a new job contract where I put 20 miles a day on the car.

Now I'm driving 6 miles a day round trip and the dead battery problem is back. This time after only two days sitting in the garage. Strangely enough, the dead battery often coincides with a nearly empty gas tank (wierd, huh?).

There is a new service manager at the Subaru dealer, but no new solution. In the 9 months since I last posted, has anyone heard of anyone else having this problem? The dealer swears they have tested everything they could that is related to the electrical system and there is no problem with the car. They want to put a trickle charger on my car. I don't want to have to plug my car in.

My husband's Jeep, with all of the same electrical toys, can sit at the airport for a week at a time and still start right up. My old car, with fewer electrical accessories, sat up to a month at a time and still started up. This is NOT normal operation for a car.
Cheryl

fibber2 · October 2003

You need to find an independent garage mechanic whom you trust that can work with you. He needs to monitor the current draw that takes place when the car sits to see if there is anything unusual taking place that is draining the battery. All cars require some 'keep alive' current (ECU, clock, radio station selection, alarm, etc.), but I would guess that this should be in the milliamp range. A standard car battery should be able to stand this kind of draw for a few hundred hours (a few weeks) with limited impact.

Doing it right is going to require a little inventiveness. An ammeter needs to be in series with the battery terminal. But what I don't want you to do is disconnect the circuit and reconnect, as this may change the results of the test. We need to catch everything in the 'natural' state, exactly as it is done when you turn off the ignition and then leave the car untouched.

The ammeter needs to be connected first, then the battery terminal disconnected, so that the flow goes thru the ammeter uninterrupted. Some autoparts stores stock a 'quick disconnect' battery terminal adaptor with a green knob that easily isolates the battery. Prewire the ammeter to each side, then when you turn the knob, the flow is seemlessly shunted thru the meter. In an ideal world, you would borrow a meter that could be connected to a recording device (PC or chart recorder) to catch anything really unusual.

Steve

ateixeira · October 2003

The stock battery only has 260 CCAs or so, I swapped for one with 535 when mine died and it starts more easily. Worth the $40 I spent at Wal Mart, easily.

But...I suspect it's a leak in the electrical system. Ask the dealer to keep it overnight to try to reproduce the problem.

I had an old Datsun, and had the same problem. It was a loose brake pedal, it would travel down to a point where the brake light would turn on at times, draining the battery. I woke up to a dead battery for a few days before figuring out why.

-juice

cploeg · October 2003

Thanks for the advice Steve and juice.

Meanwhile, I found what appears to be a pretty good battery site (http://www.batteryfaq.org) that backs up my belief that even with all the new electrical gear on most cars, a car should be able to sit for 2 weeks and still be able to start.

I know this is a wierd coincidence, but is it possible it's my low gas light that's acting as an electrical parasite? As I drove my car out of the dealership last night, the gas light was on, and this is about the 4th time I remember driving directly from the dealership to a gas station a block away. It's probably just a coincidence, but if I were debugging computer code and saw a linkage like this, I'd suspect a relationship.

I'm going to start by-passing the dealership, both by filing this issue with SOA (I initially thought the dealer would do that), and getting my favorite local mechanic involved.
Thanks again,
Cheryl

P.S. One other thought. I assume that the headlights on the 2002 Forester are auto-off with the ignition switch, just like the 2003. Is that true? I try to always turn the lights off, but with the daylight running lights it's easy to forget.

ateixeira · October 2003

Yes, I believe they are auto-off.

Make sure you haven't left on the running lights, the switch is on top of the steering column. That could slowly drain the battery. I'd check that first.

I don't think a low fuel light would stay on when you remove the key.

-juice

lfdal · October 2003

Cheryl - another piece of hardware that might work is a current shunt - it's just a calibrated piece of copper that has a known resistance. They're designed to handle hundreds of amps and can easily stay in series with the battery when its starting the car so no disconnect/reconnect required, not easy to do with the average ammeter. The nice part is all anyone has to do is connect a precision Voltmeter across the shunt and read the voltage drop - I = E/R, so if you have the shunt resistance and the voltage read by the meter you've got the current draw. Still a lot of work for you to deal with.

If you really think your on to something with the low fuel situation, it might be worth looking at the fuse(s) that go to the electrical sender unit for the gas tank, the fuel pump, and the idiot light and maybe pulling it(them) when you leave the car for a couple days. Pick up a handful of assorted fuses so if you lose one you won't be out of luck.

What you've got is one really unusual problem and any help you can give the dealer will be to your benefit (and piece of mind).

Larry

subaru_team · October 2003

FYI - I am reading post. I'm just not permitted to respond due to some "rules" related to being on disability. Anyway - as a general rule of thumb - always work with the Service Manager. Note names. If you are unhappy, please call our 1-800-SUBARU3 number. Our Reps. all have the knowledge and the authority to get involved and to try to sort things out. Feel free to let the Rep. know that you were refered there by me via Edmunds as I do like to hear about what is going on with cases. I'll be back to work on 10/20 and I'll be reading up on these situations then. I wish I could comment here - but - I can't risk the financial stuff.

Thanks!

Patti

fibber2 · October 2003

I considered that approach also, as I had one that came with a tach/dwell/multimeter back in the 'dark ages'. Remember those? Anyhow, I found that they were good for measuring starter current draw, but lacked the precision for milliamp measurements. Maybe, as you suggested, with a well calibrated voltmeter the results would be more meaningful.

Steve

fibber2 · October 2003

We jumped into leakage currents when parked, but probably should review the other possibilities.

1) Bad battery - internal leakage between plates can drop the voltage when they sit idle.

2) Poor alternator output - bad windings, bad voltage regulator, slipping belt - all can result in insufficient charge being put back in when you drive. Battery voltage is around 12.6v or so. Alternator output to charge a battery should be 14.5v or so, plus there must be sufficient current. As your situation is elusive, the testing needs to be dynamic - ie when the car is driven, and not just when sitting in the shop tied to the diagnostic equipment.

Steve

ppek · October 2003

Electrical problems are always hard to discover. I'm assuming the dealer already checked your battery to make sure it is not bad? One simple way to check the battery itself, would be to disconnect everything from it and let the car sit for a couple of days. If you can't start the car up, you know it is not a draw from anything in the vehicle (because you had everything disconnected).

You can also pull your battery yourself and many auto parts stores will check them for free (I know AutoZone in my area does this).

Good luck in finding the problem, it's has to be a pain for your.

Paul

hypov · October 2003

Cheryl-
What electrical and/or Electronic, OEM and aftermarket, goodies do you have in the car?

-Dave

scarletc · October 2003

This is a follow up to a post I did about a month ago.

I've been moving so my computer has been in a box.

Last month at less than 32K miles, my 2000 Impreza 2.5 RS had developed a major leak in the gas /fuel line.

I went to a deal in Upstate NY where I live now and they asked me if anyone had worked on the fuel tank because it looked like someone had damaged the fuel line and o rings went working on the fuel tank. At first I said no because I was thinking of something recent. Later I remembered that my original deal in Rockville had done several warranty repairs that dealt with the fuel tank. My original dealer had confirmed that they had ordered a fuel level indicator/fuel pump assembly/fuel tank sending unit in APril 2002 and installed it in May 2002.

Per Patti's advice I talked to the 800 Suburu3 people. THe customer service rep unfortunately was not very helpful in my opinion. More on that later.

I explained then to to the dealer in Upste NY that my original dealer had done a few things to the fuel system including replacing the fuel assembly etc. and they said that made sense and that it was obvious to them that something done during the installation of the unit had caused damage to the o rings and this damage or improper installation had led to the current leak, which was a serious leak.

Getting back to the customer service rep, I feel that she was not helpful and feel she was trying to shift the blame on to anyone but the suburu mechanics. I don't know if the customer service reps are mechanics but she seemed to me to imply
that if the dealer had damaged something upon installing a part that it would have leaked right away. She claimed that she would talk to the suburu place in NY state and in ROckville to get to the bottom of it and work something out.
However, I'm not sure if she ever did as she never got back to me and the NY dealer never mentioned getting a call from her (I forgot to ask when I picked it up)

However, the dealer in NYstate found that it was obvious to them that the problem was not a manufacture defect but a workmanship issue and that something done on installation of the unit had led to the problem. THey told me that since it was workmanship issue not warranty issue that they would have to charge me but that I should try to get reimbursed by my original dealer that had done the installation.

I decided to do this in person when I was back in Rockville area (which is now) as I was needing to go back to MD anyway sometime so that gave me a good reason. I thought it might be helpful to the installers to see the part so I had it kept for me so they could see for themselves what went wrong and hopefully to avoid something like that in the future since I was told this kind of leak could be dangerous.

I'm going in person to the dealer in ROckville today (wish me luck) as I think that's the best way to deal with it. THe repair cost nearly $400 and I spent around a week without my car.

THe dealer in rockville has always been accomodating and fair thus far, especially since my car had several warranty repairs needed (I was in to the dealer so many times I lost track of how many) with this or that going wrong. I was surprised that this car had so many problems because everyone else seems not to have these problems with Suburus.

I'm not sure what to expect. I am only in town for the day but coming back again next week. I hope to get it resolved and will let you all know how it turns out.

Has anyone else had problems like this? Was the attitude I received from the customer service rep typical or atypical?

I like my car's driving and handling but I will admit that its been a real pain all the times I've had to bring it in the shop btwn 15k miles and now. I'm glad that so far everything is always resolved and hoping this problem will be too.

Thanks for listening.

scarletc · October 2003

Hmmmm, somehow dealer got changed to deal in my above post.

kens · October 2003

I took my Forester in for it's 90K service yesterday. I'd normally do some of the items (oil change and tire rotations) myself, but having a baby daughter has taxed my time and I decided to go the dealer route.

One thing I asked the dealer to check was clutch chatter. I had it changed back in late 2001 which pre-dates the latest clutch material (mentioned in the TSB). The dealer did tell me I'm over a year out so I might be out of luck, but I thought I'd try anyway.

I'm driving a rental OB right now (AT) and I'm seriously missing my Forester! I was supposed to get a WRX sedan but the rental did not make it back in time. :-(

Ken

stevek · October 2003

Looking for a Synthetic tranny fluid for a mid 70's GM TH350 tranny. is it AFT-3 that is needed and what brands other than redline or amsoil are there?

kens · October 2003

Patti,

Good to hear from you. I hope you're doing well!

Ken

paisan · October 2003

for my ATF. Love it.

-mike

subaru_team · October 2003

I'm chomping at the bit to get back to work!! Thanks for asking!

Patti

fibber2 · October 2003

I sent a couple of e-mails to your SOA address. Good to hear that you are alive! Did you catch our family news?

Steve

cptplt · October 2003

how much overfilled is bad???
I just had my WRX oil change done at a dealer (I got 2 years free service when I got the car), I brought them an unopened 6 quart box of Mobil 1. They returned one bottle and about 200ml is missing from that one. I looked at the invoice today, they said they filled 5 1/2 quarts. The dipstick is reading to just where the twist starts. I figure they must have put in at least 5.2 liters instead of the 4.8 necessary. Is that a big enough deal to cause trouble and go back to get fixed. This dealer is miles away (those who read my a/c woes on my Legacy know the story on that one!)

c_hunter · October 2003

It's probably not too bad -- I recall using a bit extra than I expected (to fill up the new filter). Be sure to check on level ground when the engine is cold (or has been off for a couple of hours). That's when you get an accurate reading. If it's a lot higher than F, you could always drain a smidge out. I would worry if it's much more than 3/4 qt high.

Craig

stevek · October 2003

Since I have put MOBIL1 synthetic oil in my Legacy GT 5 sp gerabox, when going into 1st seems to grind often if I dont wait a fraction of the second after the clutch is fully depressed....strange

jlemole · October 2003

I don't have a manual tranny, so I don't have real world experience on this, but M1 gear oil has friction additives that make it suitable for the rear diffy (where I do use it), than the manual gearbox. Check out Cobb Tuning's discussion on this issue here: http://www.cobbtuning.com/tech/gearoil/index.html

Good luck!

Jon

bluesubie · October 2003

And even though Cobb is one of the top Subaru tuners in the country, one the Redline gear oils he recommends is a GL4 spec instead of the required GL5 spec. For Redline, stick with the 75W90NS.

I'm using Motul Gear 300 in the Rex, and I used Amsoil in the OBS for 3 years. I was happier with the Amsoil (the regular synthetic Gear Lube, not Series 2000).

YMMV.

-Dennis

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