Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

jimmyp1 · October 2003

my dad just put a car wash in his garage. A buddy who owns a plumbing company had one in his garage, and, for exactly the reasons Pat mentioned above, my dad wanted to be able to spray the cars/trucks off from time to time during those high altitude Colorado winters. So he copied the setup. It really wasn't that expensive if I undersatnd it right, amybe a couple thousand absolute max, and it was done with Home Depot pieces, nothing pre-prepared. The garage is huge and heated.

Jim

hondafriek · October 2003

Jim. you sure know how to make a guy really envious, now I could really getinto that.

Cheers Pat.

nygreg · October 2003

Yeah, I know. I try to keep the salt off as much as possible. It's just soooooo nice to go from house to warm car, open the garage door and drive out into the snow. FWIW I only keep the temp around 45-50F and I figured it's better for the engine.

humor me please.

Greg

gmanmd · October 2003

I have a 2001 Forester S automatic transmission, and I just had the transmission mount replaced because of a crack. I noticed that the car would make nasty sound on warm startup or decelerating into a turn on rough ground. The subaru service station said that they have had problems with the transmission mount in foresters because the central screw has been coming loose and then it eventually cracks the mount as the mount moves. Has anyone else had this problem? I'm concerned because I will be coming off of the warranty in another 5 months and was thinking of trading it in for a new XT, but if this is an inherent problem of subaru transmission mounts, this can be an expensive (I think) problem if you are out of warranty. It may make me think twice about buying another forester if this is a wide spread problem.

subaru_team · October 2003

That's not something I've heard much about here. What State are you in?

Patti

ateixeira · October 2003

To paraphrase Will Smith in Independence Day, "I have GOT to get me one of those!"

I guess my car port is a good compromise. You're sheltered from rain and snow, but it's not heated.

-juice

ballistic · October 2003

Probably an aggravated State, from the sound of it...

ateixeira · October 2003

I've read all the Subaru boards on Edmunds for the past 5 years, and that's the first I've heard of that specific problem.

In general, the auto tranny is very robust. The same unit handles 300hp in WRXs reliably. The 5 speeds supposedly only handle 250hp or so, so the auto is actually more robust.

-juice

lark6 · October 2003

By "mount," do you mean the rubber or urethane bushing that is attached between the body of the car and the transmission case, or the point of attachment on the case itself? It is not unusual for motor mounts and transmission mounts (the bushings, that is) to fail, as the materials they are made of deteriorate over time. In my experience it doesn't happen unless the car has seen rough duty, has high mileage (100K miles or more), or is just old (much older than 3 years). How many miles do you have on your car?

I have a 2000 S with AT and am curious as well. Please keep us posted.

Ed

hondafriek · October 2003

Is the way to go, best of all worlds, I have a narrow laneway and I have one of those portable garages, can't work in it but the car is protected, makes a big differnce in winter.

Cheers Pat.

subaru_team · October 2003

I'm curious because sometimes "information" takes hold in certain areas of the country. If there is a misconception, I like to try to see wwere the root of the issue starts. It's produced some interesting findings occasionally.

Patti

otis123 · October 2003

The engine mounts - rubber bushings- on my 1992 camry 4 cyl. had to be replaced in 2001 with 161K miles...

Felt like the transmission was going. Once I knew what it was I was more comfortable selling the car to a friend (but I will never sell a car to someone I know again!).

Ralph

idahodoug · October 2003

Many of you have heard me preach the virtues of having matching tires, and also diagnose tire size as the issue when you feel that rumbling/binding sensation turning into a parking spot. Well, my mother reported this same thing happening on her Legacy with 60k on the clock. I suggested she put new tires on it as I knew the tires on it were long in the tooth.

It worked, and the car is again silent and easy to turn sharply. So, if you are experiencing this - another data point for you.

IdahoDoug

PS - Paul: Yep, got the Alpins down this evening and they'll likely be on this week. First I'll put them on the Family Truckster (LandCruiser) as the top priority..

gmanmd · October 2003

I'm not exactly what was cracked. The service guy said that the mount is attached by four outer screws and one central screw with a rubber bushing. He said that the central screw is the one that has been coming loose on some the transmission mounts and causing a crack. I live in northern New Jersey. I didn't think much of it until he said that he was seeing this recently. Also I have 27000 miles on it.

ateixeira · October 2003

I have to rotate mine soon. Good reminder.

Also, folks, check your battery's water level. I was pretty surprised when I used almost half a gallon of distilled water to refill my battery and the one on my wife's car.

Maintenance-free is not maintenance-free.

-juice

ateixeira · October 2003

You're right, Ralph. If it's a lemon, they come back to you and blame you. If it's reliable, they rub it in that you let a good one go. Either way you lose!

-juice

officeglen · October 2003

I had that "scary ABS" thing happen to me this morning on my way to work in my 2003 Forester. If you go to the Impreza WRX forum and search on "ABS brakes" you'll find what I'm talking about.
I was going up a slight rise over a drain cover and minor road rash at about 30 mph, applied the brakes, felt the ABS pulse but the brakes had no bite. I felt like I was sliding on ice. Thankfully, the car in front of me started moving before I hit it. I must say it's a very disturbing experience, sure got my heart rate up.

ateixeira · October 2003

You might be the first Forester owner I've heard complain about that. Interesting.

Did you pump the brake once? Supposedly that regains braking power.

Check your tires to be sure they're all inflated properly and wearing evenly. Differences could confuse the ABS.

-juice

officeglen · October 2003

I was in some traffic and the car in front was coming up fast, I did not have time to think about it and then pump the brakes.
I just had the oil changed last week, also checked the tires.
I only have 6500 miles on the car. It's funny, I had no problems on the twisty washboard cottage roads I was driving on all summer.

ateixeira · October 2003

Hmm, report it to your dealer, if only to give them more data to work with.

-juice

rangner · October 2003

hey y'all

After my 00 OBW has been sitting awhile (say a day or so) I'll drive it and just before the first upshift, the whole car starts shaking progressively harder side to side until it upshifts, then its ok. I still need to replace the spark plugs 57,000 miles on original. Should I do the wires too?

I was thinking it might be the timing belt or tensioner. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Eric

ateixeira · October 2003

I'm thinking engine or tranny mounts.

-juice

ozman62 · October 2003

Officeglen, you're in Calgary, right? Or is that FryingBologna? I noticed that my ABS has been activating a bit more recently too, but I'm pretty sure it's from the 2" of ice on the roads ;-(
Owen

otis123 · October 2003

That's very strange!!! 2 days ago I experienced that sensation on my LLBean!

I back out of my driveway and then travel about 150 feet to the end of my road. So I'm not going too fast ~ 20 mph. I put the brakes on and noticed I kept going but the ABS activated. Little scary, because the road is a main road.

That's the first time it ever happened (50K miles, today!). Forgot to tell the main driver - she drives way too fast to the end of the road...

Will monitor and report additional occurances...

Strange that it comes up here and it just happened!!

Ralph

georgeinmd · October 2003

Is this happening on cars with front only or 4 wheel disk brakes? Or both? Thanx -- George

otis123 · October 2003

Maybe it is related to the sunspots??

otis123 · October 2003

nygreg · October 2003

Maybe Halloween. (i.e. scary experience)

1hokie · October 2003

A while back (a month now?) I reported (here) hearing a click noise when the engine was cold. Well, I didn't know how serious it was, so I finally decided to take it in. When the car warms up the noise goes away. So, the dealer gets back to me and says the noise is from piston movement (rattle). According to the dealer mechanic, the cylinder is slightly oval when cold, and has some play between it and the piston. Once the engine warms up, the gap is closed, and the cylinder returns to it's circular shape. They said it wasn't visiibly out of round when cold, but just enough to cause this sound. They went on to say that they older 2.5 models had this problem badly - that is, they were very loud when cold.

So - I guess that answers my question. Anyone have thoughts on this? Is this common knowledge that I've missed somehow?

zman3 · October 2003

I would say piston slap was common enough that in the older 2.5's a lot of people, including myself, complained about it. I have no idea what percentage it effected, but by automotive standards I would guess it was rather high. If Subaru gave their dealers a memo on how to deal with it (explain it away), I would say they were getting a lot of complaints. I also have no idea how much the sound varied vehicle to vehicle. Mine did it for a couple of years before I finally brought it in. I was waiting for a consistent approach by Subaru. When the tech rev'd the engine with me standing next to the open hood, I could not believe how bad it sounded from outside the vehicle. Mine sounded like someone hitting the engine block with a hammer. They agreed on the spot to replace the block assembly, no questions asked.

I have not heard of many complaints on the newer 2.5 liter engines. It seems like the occurrence is way down, but apparently not zero.

subaru_team · October 2003

Glenn - that's a first for me too (hearing about it on a Forester). Ice can cause the ABS to engage. FWIW - The descriptions of a concern can vary so much. ABS activation is a weird feeling in itself and not necessarily indicative of a failure. In all cases, if you are not comfortable with any aspect of the brakes, it's always best to have a dealer check it out.

Thanks!

Patti

officeglen · October 2003

Owen, I'm in Ottawa, no ice on the roads just yet.
George, mines an X so drums in the rear. The WRX would be disks all around.

This is my first car (whatever) with ABS so I went out to a empty parking lot to test it out and get use to it. The problem is not that the ABS engages, it's that you hit the brake pedal and you do NOT slow down. The pedal (in my case) felt like the ABS was working at say 20%. Unless it happens again I will wait until my next oil change, print out some of the Impreza WRX forum
and show it to the service manager. I'm expecting a blank stare.

originalbitman · October 2003

I posted some pics of my accident... Legacy rolls out of driveway and clobbers the neighbor's Silverado:

http://bitman.com/accident/

bit

jimmyp1 · October 2003

the strength of a Subaru! Glad nobody was hurt and that it was as minor as it was, particularly to the Subaru, although I know you are paying for both. It's about what I envisioned when you first mentioned it, but the vertical crease in the truck is strange.

Jim

rangner · October 2003

yeah it's possible. somebody hit it while it was parked--replaced the quarter panel. I'll prolly take it in when I do the recall rustproofing.

Thanks,
Eric

originalbitman · October 2003

Well as it turns out my tailight hit higher on the door. I didn't notice it but the State Farm adjuster did. He pointed out an abrasion on the light and corresponding mark on the truck door. He also noticed a slight bit of condensation in the light (suggesting it is cracked) and a slight tweak (less than 1/8") to the orientation of the light to the fender. Things the body shops missed. Overall he did a much better job of going over the car. I was surprised. Gave me a check on the spot for his estimate which was higher than the others while allowing for additional damage that might appear during repair.

bit

ateixeira · October 2003

THAT'S IT?! LOL

You see almost no damage. I know a lot of people that would fix that with touch-up paint...

-juice

kens · October 2003

Wow, bit! Chalk one up for the Subaru! Are you sure the damage to the Legacy is all that you see? It's hard to imagine given the huge dent on the Silverardo!

Ken

sebberry · October 2003

The funny thing about ABS: Everyone thinks it helps you stop quicker. While this can sometimes be true when used properly, ABS is designed more around being able to maintain steering control rather than stopping power.

ABS works by sensing a rapid deceleration on the wheels. (For a wheel to lock up, it must first rapidly slow down, it doesn't just stop.) ABS senses this slowing down and releases braking pressure on that wheel, so that the wheel can regain traction.

As with any vehicle system, it requires a driver that can fel how the car is reacting, and respond to it, as much as the car has to respond to the driver. If you press as hard as you can on the brake pedal, it has to work harder to release the braking force on that locking wheel. You still have to use the brakes (When on ice) similar to the way you would use a non-ABS car.

In a non-ABS car, you feel for the "threshold", the point at which a wheel locks up, and then release pressure on the brake to allow traction to be restored.

With an ABS equipped car, you work slightly below that threshold, allowing the ABS to control the wheels itself, while still applying enough stopping power.

Now here is where the driver needs to respond to the car: You have to feel for the direction that the car wants to travel in, and keep pointing the car where you want to go.

The role of ABS is to prevent wheel lock, and thus a loss of traction when steering. It also helps to prevent wheel-lock and drifting/skidding when braking. The only reason it helps to reduce stpping distance is because it allows the wheels to regain traction, whereas a non-ABS equipped car would skid.

The last time I has the oppertunity to test the ABS on ice, the car responded better, and stopping distances were shorter with moderate pressure, than it did with heavy braking pressure. The system simply has to fight back too much.

No system can compensate for gross stupidity behind the wheel. Use common sense and leave extra space in the rain and now. Remember, in thge case of the Bean, the car and a driver weighs almost 4,000 pounds. A tough challenge for 2 square feet of rubber on the ground in any condition.

In the case of the manhole cover and the car feeling like it was on ice, the tire has less traction on the metal manhole cover than on the road, and the ABS can sometimes make the car feel like there is less traction.

Just my input, any more questions, please let us know...

edunnett · October 2003

My '01 forester's heat sheild started rattling and the dealer said they tightened some screw(s) to shut it up.

subearu · November 2003

Yeah, I pictured the damager worse on your GT.

Do you know how fast rolling down your driveway is? 5mph by the time it hit the truck?

-Brian

jlemole · November 2003

Based on past discussions it seems that everyone has the ticking sound when the engine is cold. If it goes away once the engine is warm, I wouldn't worry about it. If you still hear it when the engine is warm, you might have a piston slap issue, though this is uncommon on the Phase II SOHC engine.

Jon

cpp788x · November 2003

Forget the technobabble.
If all 4 wheels are on a slippery surface(ice, leaves) at the same time without at least one wheel having considerably more traction, the ABS will continue to adjust until it stops the car. Meanwhile, your still moving.
We own subarus, were confident, sometimes overconfident. we expect more. Perhaps your car was performing perfectly but needed more room to stop.
You can't change the laws of physics.
Seconds feel like minutes - that's the scary part.

I had an experience of my own. About 10 years ago
one January morning all of N. Jersey was covered with black ice. I had a Jeep Cherokee at the time-4wd,ABS. accelerating was not a problem, however breaking was a different story. I took some back roads to avoid traffic - big mistake. I was doing about 10-15mph(it was that bad)and a dog ran out in front of me. I applied the breaks,not hard, and continued to slide past at least 4 houses until I came to a stop.(300ft!) All the while the ABS was working just fine.

I think you get my point.
Cpp788x

P.S - the dog is fine.

gaia1 · November 2003

1999 Subaru Outback, Limited Edition. Bought the car used, no accidents. Since I've owned the car, Subaru has had to fix the oil (?) seals and put in a new timing belt at 38,000. The driver and passenger windows had to be replaced because they were already marred and scratched. The windows are still 'squeaking' and last winter, I had a problem getting the window to close! The Windows are still not working the best, the driver bottom heat seater is broken and the light which lights up the gear shifter is broken. Should this happen to a 1999 vehicle? I've was told that to fix the heat seater and the light in the gear shifter, all of the parts had to be removed to see where the problem is. 75,000 miles, heavily maintained and this car is acting like it's 10 years old.

originalbitman · November 2003

I did a few rolling tests and the best I can guess it was between 5 and 10mph. Now that is if my brake was not set at all but there is the possibility it was partially set. In my haste to get the car out of the street I didn't take time to notice if the brake was set at all. The funny thing is that this is a GT with relatively low ride height. It must have it the truck just right... riding up and over the rocker panel and dissipating energy as it pushed into the softer structure of the door.

As for more damage... yeah, I am still concerned. But I checked under the car and pulled out the spare and all the cargo area trim but found no indication of any damage. No buckles in the metal or cracked paint. I measured the car (OCD!) and could find no discrepancies side to side. I even checked the connecting points of the bumper assembly and could see no indication of movement. All panel gaps look good. The only indication of anything more than the bumper is the tailight slight misalignment and the back edge of the right rear fender where it meets the tailgate is maybe an 1/8" off. But the bumper cover is pushing up on it and may be holding it in that position. Given the tailgate was open at the time of impact it shows no damage... hinges and mounting points look perfect and alignment is right on. Closes just like new. The gate did impact the top of the truck either with the interior trim or more likely the latch on the gate.

I'm either very lucky or more will show up during repairs. If it ends up the fender is deformed I would rather leave it as is (not really noticeable) than have it messed with.

bit

mrk610 · November 2003

I just got my oil analysis back for my car . I have a 02 outback base wagon with 32 k miles on it . I have had the car diagnosed with piston slap at 6k miles . I use mobil 1 5w40 in the winter and 10w40 in the summer I change the oil at 5 k intervals . My oil came back normal for my engine . No abnormal wear due to the slap problem . So I guess SOA is right that it does no damage to the engine . I sent the oil to Blackstone labs . It cost 20 bucks and they supply the shipping container .
Well I felt so good about my car that I gave it a good detailing to day at work .
I now feel alot better and I'll just have to learn to live with the noise .

Mike

jfl · November 2003

Valid point.

The effect net would probably have been the same w/o ABS. (Except that the wheels would have been locked unless you pumped the brakes.)

Jim

hondafriek · November 2003

Chevy says built tough to stay tough, well I guess the Subie is tougher:-).

I guess you learned from your sunroof experience if you are going to leave the lttle crease alone, see what they say it just might need a little nudge from a porta power, thats the hydraulic ram that they use to push out creases.

Cheers Pat.

lfdal · November 2003

Three down, one to go. Pulled the glove compartment, the drivers side under dash panel, the radio panel, the spare tire well styrofoam and the gearshift panel today.

Rattles / squeaks gone:
1) padded the styrofoam in the rear where there was any chance of styrofoam to styrofoam contact. Seems to have been successful.

2) loose bolt on drivers side tightened - don't know what connectors were mounted to it, but the whole assy was loose.

3) air filter cover lower snap fitting was wedged in on one side vs. being snapped over tab. This is almost forgivable considering that they've made removing that cover even worse that the 03's. The trick is going to be convincing the dealer I didn't break it. A $23.00 part. Talk about ridiculous markup - must be all of 1.5" by 6.0" piece of plastic.

4) harness rattle on drivers side - used a couple of ty-wraps. Seems to be gone.

Unsure about the snapping / popping sound. Didn't locate a specific cause and the weather was too warm today to be sure if anything I did had an effect. BTW - the snapping popping noise is so loud that cranking the radio up to drown it out would not only make me deaf, but would also guarantee I'd never hear a police/fire/ambulance siren. Yes, Virginia, it is that loud.

Lot's of things I'd rather have done on a Boston area day in the 70's at this time of year.

Larry

fstevensne · November 2003

The sound system suddenly went missing in my '01 Forester Friday. The radio was playing when I parked, and then wasn't working when I started the car a couple of hours later. It seems to *think* it's working - the display works as usual, showing the radio station selected, or volume level. I loaded a CD, and the display showed the track and the time within the track. But there's no sound . . .

This happened to me once before, a couple of years ago. But it only lasted until I started the car again - after sitting overnight, the sound system worked fine, so I didn't bother taking it to the dealer. Now, of course, the b-to-b warranty is up. Any ideas before I call the dealer?

Thanks,
Faye (long-time lurker)

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