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PS. Colin Thanks for Pics Tips
You'll need to upload it to a photo hosting site such as Photobucket. (There are many, many others.)
They you will have to link to it here. Photobucket and most other sites give you easy links to do that.
I recommend that you fix the size using the following script after the image source itself (between the final " and greater-than symbol): height=420 width=540 (for landscape photos, the opposite for portrait). Otherwise, the width can cause readability issues for forum posts.
Check to see if that control arm bolts into the area above it separate from the rusted part. If so, like I suspect, that is your frame! The part above the rust piece is your frame and this part appears to run underneath it. I would be concerned about it falling and getting jammed under the car while traveling. Yes, they call it a subframe, but if nothing is bolted to it, it is more of a frame bracing system! Check this website and see it confirms the same part. Look at the drawings. https://www.1stsubaruparts.com/part_number.html This is for 03 Impreza.
For everyone else, to get a good view of this pic, go to page on IE and select zoom and blow it up to 400%.
Back to the website drawing, look at it carefully, if it is like the Impreza, it appears that this part bolts onto the main frame system more for bracing rather than support. Being flat, I can see how the salt water would collect on it. If all of this is correct, it appears to "just bolt up from underneath with nothing else hanging on it." $328 for the Impeza part. You may need some new bolts as well. You may be able to forget the new car idea for another day! If SOA pays, even better.
Wish the 03 was here in LA so I could look at it and get a better idea about it for you.
PB000854 FRAME AY F - W/o wrx sti
List Price : $388.83
Your Price : $326.62
I also agree it probably serves more as a crash device. I think it bolts into the frame but may not serve a supportive purpose?
Here is where I stand. I took it to the first dealer that could put it up on the rack. He verified with the SOA Rep that it is rusted out.
The Dealer said the fix would be $499 in parts (not $326 hmmm) and no more than $400 in Labor. The SOA Rep said they would pay for parts as a good will gesture. It would could be $400 or less to replace.
Thoughts?
Peter
I'm assuming a microphone or software issue. Its presently in shop...any thoughts about what they'll have to say?
Worst case: you've bent a rim or a suspension component. I'd get it checked.
Stupid question...I know!
http://www.subarupartscenter.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getJointLocator&si- teid=215050&Sectionids=0,2580&groupid=51864&subgroupid=3372&componentid=&make=32- &model=Outback&year=2002&graphicID=7522315&callout=13&catalogid=2&displayCatalog- id=0
Your personal time value of money must be different than mine.. unless you're sure you can clean that thing and restore normal operation in less than 30 minutes?
I've hit 4" deep potholes in my '09 Forester with Nokian tires. That brought a really loud crash/bang but it didn't seem to hurt either tire, wheel or vehicle. Still, I'd avoid potholes if possible.
The Forester is excellent at absorbing impacts like that.
Take the twist tie from a loaf of bread, and strip off the plastic. You are left with a sufficiently stiff wire of around 30 gauge. Perfect for cleaning out those sprayer. Done it on multiple cars over the years. It's also a good size for cleaning out varnish deposits on the carburetor jet of your lawn mower.
I'll bet you never knew a loaf of bread could have so many uses!
Since this is a new vehicle and I used savings for the downpayemnt. I can not afford to replace them. Who knows what the dealer will say about it and the warranty(did I void it).
Ok, so while it could have been our Forester, it happened in our Civic which I usually drive. She was driving on a 40 mph road, on a blind curve and noticed at the last moment that cars were stopped in the middle of the road due to a previous accident. Road was wet. She braked really hard, car spun, hit the (very low) curb and went in the grass. Other than a ton of mud everywhere, no other damage was visible when she came home. However when I drove the car today, a rumbling noise could be heard at speeds above 35 mph.
Looking more carefully, the back right wheel shows a 2.5" dent. More importantly, the axes of wheel seem bent so that the lower part is more towards the center of the vehicle (in the left-right direction), and also the front of the wheel seems to point a bit towards the center of the vehicle while the back seems to point outside. I took both back wheels off, and there is no visible damage to brake lines etc. Car is reasonably stable at speeds of 70mph, with very minor steering wheel shake. There seems to be however a lack of stability going over bumps/potholes even small ones.
My questions are: is this something that can be fixed by a regular alignment? Could the rumbling be caused by the wheel bearing being damaged when she hit the curb? The rumbling is very similar to the noise our Forester made a few weeks ago, which was indeed a rear wheel bearing.
Go to alignment shop for diagnosis, then decide what to do. Don't go to the Honda dealership first-- I can just about guarantee they will go straight to worst-case / most expensive replacement repairs.
The answer is... all of the above. I had the wheel bearing replaced at Sears Auto, instant reduction in noise. I have no doubt that it needed replacement. They looked into doing an alignment but claimed that the rim was out of specs and needed replacement first. Went to the dealer, bought a new rim, and had the tire moved to the new rim at Sears Auto. Now they say that some (trailing I believe) arm is bent and needs replacement. My understanding is that this is a fairly long arm that goes from the middle of the car to the rear wheel, and the wheel bearing hub, drum, rim etc. are all attached to it. Apparently only the dealer has that part. Between the part and the labor (they said close to 3 hrs.) they want $400, then another $80 or so to do the alignment.
How does this sound?
Daniel
Takes a lot of force to bend one of these! I would carefully inspect the frame mounts as well. Bushings in the arms could be heavily damaged as well. Some bushings are replacable and some are not. Use your eyes and carefully compare both sides. Another excellent method is to get a tape measure out and cross measure from a common member of the frame on both sides. eg. left front frame control arm mount to right trailing arm mount and right frame control arm mount to left trailing arm mount. Tricky to avoid obstacles like exhaust system.
I would do this inspection myself, because I have had alignment shops misdiagnosis "bent parts" in the past! The last diagnosis was for a front wheel spindle when the real problem was an incorrectly assembled trailing arm assembly that caused a 87 Mitz to lean to one side! Being a Civic, specific year and sub model data would help.
An alignment shop has to have a good rim to make the checks, because the equipment is mounted to the rim.
I would check with pullapart.com if the car is old enough to see if they have a good trailing arm. Check and see what years your Civic matches up to widen your search.
Anyone spinning a Subie a recently? This applies to you as well. But being a Subie, not as likely to happen. Physics does have its limits though!
The impact was sideways, and as far as I can tell, only the rear passenger side wheel hit something. Apparently that was enough to cause fairly severe damage.
I have checked on several places on the internet, and the lowest new part is about $230 + shipping. The dealer wants $260 for the part. I checked pullapart.com, but I am in Cincinnati, and they don't have any store here.
There is no way I can do the inspection myself (no ramps, jack stands etc., only have the car jack) plus more importantly I am not knowledgeable enough to know what to look for. If that is indeed the problem, given the cost of the part I would think that $400 is quite reasonable???
Daniel
Being a side impact that raises more concerns about frame mounts and the mounts on rear suspension axle components. That is because the trailing arm becomes a "crow bar" pushing against each end. Not to mention a possible axle bend.
Bottom line, if it aligns up after the trailing arm is replaced, count your blessings. You got by cheap! On the other hand, if it was my car, with my knowledge and your lack of tools I would have it fixed also. That price sure beats replacing the car. Let us know how it goes.
Thanks for the compliment Ateix'.....took a few bang ups on my end to learn! School of "hard knocks" I guess. lol
Isn't that the course on pre-detonation?
The Sears auto alignment printout shows that toe is out of specs for all 4 wheels:
Front Driver: 1.42 degrees
Front Passenger: -1.24 degrees
Rear Driver: -0.65 degrees
Rear Passenger (this wheel hit the curb): 1.73 degrees
The desired toe should be around -.04 to +0.16 degrees for all 4 wheels. I am surprised that all wheels are this much off.
Camber is fine for all wheels except for the wheel that hit the curb, which is just a bit off at +0.4 degrees, should be -2.0 to 0.0. Caster (front wheels only) is fine too.
The Sears tech said that all this cannot be corrected with an alignment. Going to Firestone this Thursday to get yet another opinion.
Daniel
The engine died as my wife turned into the drive way...she was between gears downshifting, and it threw the CEL when the engine died. It started right up and has been running fine since. I cleared the code and it hasn't popped up again in the 25 mile morning commute.
Any ideas?
John
The Subaru unit occassionally gets plugged or fails. A while back in this topic, I posted a link to a discussion about it from another forum...
I think this was it: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781242
Still, the idea that an MAF or some other valve is dirty is probably the case. I'll need to do some more looking...
John
I would go out and have a look to help ya, but I sold my '99 Impreza 2.5RS a number of years back... it's surely on the intake manifold, probably near the throttlebody. I'm sure Girlcarbuilder can quote chapter and verse.
John
There are usually bolts in the rear with offset washers to adjust the rear. In both cases, there are limits of adjustment. I am concerned on the one rear reading. Hopefully it can be adjusted out or close enough for "government specs."
My reaction is if Sears can guarantee they can align and show correct readings, let it rip. Dealer shop is correct, but paint does flex to a slight degree. So, you are correct there. Toe would be knocked into the car given the direction of impact. If they can not fix it, the mounts for that lateral link may need to be adjusted in a frame rack. Ouch. Probably 2-4 hours there at a good body shop. Tire wear will be the final judge in the end. If the tires have a good bit of miles, I would take a wait and see how they wear before I did a frame rack after alignment. The other practice I have used on lower annual mileage cars is do the tires rot out first, before the damage ruins them? If they rot out first, don't sweat so much about it.
See what the other shop says, tell them nothing at first and see what they say. Play dumb blonde time. Personally, I usually use an independent shop for my alignments, one with a good reputation.
As for a final note, I have a 2010 Toyota Yaris bought at auction for $7600 that took a side hit. It lined up, but the jury is still out on tire wear. She took a side hit in the drivers sides. Good deal for 16.5K miles. Annual planned mileage is 10-15K. Tires will rot off her!
Just waiting for it to hiccup again....not sure that it wasn't an errant clutching by my wife, or some other passing mis function. If it's dirty, it will act up and throw another code eventually. I completely downloaded all the 2003 Forester pdfs so I'm good to go if I need service/diagnostic procedures.
John
They notified me at Subaru that the P0420 code is that the catalytic efficiency is below the threshold. Estimate for repair $1,055.
So, my questions:
1.) Can I get this cheaper anywhere else?
2.) Can I just continue to drive *and feel horrible about hurting the environment*
3.) Should I just buy a certified 2008/2009!
They would use a/an generic catalytic converter(s) and weld up exhaust pipe. They would expend far more skilled labor, but it would cost less.
Why?
-O2 sensor, $75ish (could be as much as $100, could be as little as $40)
-2.25" (estimated) in/out catalyst, $200ish
- galvanized exhaust pipe, $100ish
- generic muffler, $60ish (if necessary)
- labor, est 3 hrs @ $65/hr, $195ish
$650 is my bet on a competent, privately owned exhaust shop.
DO NOT go to Midas, Rapid Muffler, etc. They are largely untrained and they don't care. They're just like the dealerships for the most part, bolting on overpriced OEM made-to-fit parts.
PS, you might just start with replacing the O2 sensor. It's fairly easy other than they can get stuck, but if you remove while the exhaust is hot they usually come right out. At 144k, such things are not uncommon. The catalyst could be done, too, and that's my assumption above.
Hope this helps! :shades:
I hope you are past head gasket problems, because antifreeze and cats do not get along.
On the 03, the state of MO forced the repair to finally happen. Something about thou shalt not drive and pollute at the same time or thou shalt not get safety sticker and license! I opt for number 2 until they force me to do something! You get the final call on that one though! 144K? 03 made about 250K. Maybe because it is a highway unit.
Of course, had the CEL been active, they would have failed it for no reason other than that. The nice part was that it would throw the code, I would reset it, and then it would usually be quiet for a week or two before throwing again. That way, I could "get away" without fixing the elusive problem, if it was a problem at all.
I think you should just keep the code cleared and sally forth as is unless your fuel economy is noticeably poor. If that's the case, then you probably have an issue with the oxygen sensors not giving good feedback.
A P0420 is as you said - low cat efficiency. Basically, it indicates that the cat cannot burn off all of the remaining fuel in the engine exhaust. But the rear sensor is just a monitor, and nothing more. Unlike the front sensor that actually feeds back to the ECM to adjust fuel mixture, the rear sensor is simply a tattle-tale. You got that code because at some instance in time, the sensor’s voltage output was too high.
I’m a firm believer in spending a little up front on proper diagnostics, or at least trying the least invasive part swap first, before jumping to replace a cat. The code is an indicator of some type of problem, but what? Was it a one time event, or is this a steady-state problem? Is the cat failing, or just slightly degraded? It the sensor fouled, or just slow to warm up? Is there a wiring problem? An ECU issue?
What if, as Wes suggested, you cleared the code and kept driving. Would it return, and if so, how soon? Along with the error code there is a report on the activity of around 20 other sensors stored at approximately the same time (within a few hundred milliseconds). This is known as the snapshot or freeze-frame data, and it tells a lot about the conditions that induced the error. These cars use the old ISO protocol, so the data stream isn’t perfect, but, for instance, the log might show that this only happens for the first seconds after transitioning from open to closed loop operation (a warm-up issue). Possible diagnosis – the internal heater on the B1S2 sensor or wiring to it is bad, and the sensor is just a bit slow to come up to temp. Once warm, everything is fine.
Did the dealer do a real-time scoping of the continuous data output? Is the sensor always out of spec? How about a tailpipe sniffer? Is there lots of unburned fuel, or is it squeaky clean?
I can get into a lot more detail on this if you are interested. A single code means absolutely nothing unless you have data to go with it. It’s just the beginning of the search, not the end result. Don’t drink the Kool-Aid, at least not yet!
Thanks AGAIN for so much help. The CEL has been intermittently going on and off the past week. So, I did a little shopping online and found a good deal (in my eyes).
They are taking my 2001 Outback Ltd with 145k... and I am getting a 2008 Outback 3.0R LLBean, 36k miles, with Nav (that I didn't actually need).. out the door- $20k.
I think it was a great deal... Deep Bronze color and LOVE the LL Bean seats too! It comes with winter tires and I complained about how loud they were driving it in JUNE...so they are throwing in brand new tires too.
Deal...or no Deal.. LOL