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Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

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Comments

  • dougb10dougb10 Member Posts: 185
    We have a '97 Outback Limited that has been in service almost 7 years. It only has 73,000 km.(45,000 miles) on it and is running like new. The battery is original and has given us no problem. We intend to keep the car for a few more years.
    Would it be smart and be proactive to replace the battery as winter approaches. We don't want to be stranded with a dead battery. Any advice?
    Thanks....Doug
  • golemgolem Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2003 Impreza TS, 15 months old, 7500KM (4500Miles).

    When the car's engine and drivetrain are cold (not driven for long enough so everything is cooled down to ambient temperature), it makes a very noticeable thrubbing/thrumming noise, with a low level vibration, seemingly from the drivetrain, when accelerating from a stop and continues while driving. As speed increases, the frequency of the sound and vibration increases but the loudness and vibration decreases. While continuing driving, this phenomena progressively decreases in intensity until everything is at operating temperature. Even then, the thrubbing/thrumming noise is there but much less noticeable.

    I also notice that at first, the car is very sluggish, like something is holding back acceleration, until everything is at operating temperature.

    Although this may not have anything to do with the problem, this problem appeared to begin shortly after I had the last scheduled service done at the dealership, which was an oil change, fluid top-up.

    I have taken this Impreza into a Subaru dealer but they couldn't hear or feel anything wrong. The car had been sitting for 4 hours before the dealer road tested it. I was not there when this was done. They told me to come back when the weather is a lot colder and leave the car overnight so it could be road tested when it is stone cold.

    Does anyone know what the problem is? It would really help me when I go back to the dealer. I don't want to be a victim of dealership service "see no problem, hear no problem, feel not problem, therefore there is no problem" syndrome. I plan to be there when my Impreza is taken out for the next road test.

    P.S.
    This is the second Subaru Impreza I have owned. The first one MY2002, purchased March 2002, was a lemon and after continuous attempts to fix it, and problems with being taken seriously by Subaru head office until I filed an arbitration request, Subaru refunded my money but, because I generally liked the Impreza, I waited until the MY2003 was available, September 2002, and bought another one. I still generally like this car but the problems, although different, are surfacing again.
    I would like to be able to drive my Impreza for a long time so any constructive help is greatly appreciated.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    DEFINITELY replace that battery NOW! Seven years is stretching it for any battery - if it dies on you now, you won't even be able to jump start it!
  • dougb10dougb10 Member Posts: 185
    Thanks Sam....although the general feeling is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", I am probably stretching my luck. I will get it replaced next week.
    Thanks....Doug
  • anibalbanibalb Member Posts: 193
    Hello folks,

    It has been a while. In the middle of this recent snow storm the windshield in my 01 outback cracked....for no apparent reason. No rocks or anything like that hit the car. At first I thought it was the ice. Sure enough, I have a cracked windshield. I just got over the 36K miles so am sure the dealer will tell me, no warranty. What should I do? It seems a defected windshield. Can someone give me the SOA number if that is what I should do.

    Thanks all.
  • K9LeaderK9Leader Member Posts: 112
    It sounds as though your windshield cracked due to temperature variances -- a sudden temperature change can do that. Most of my cracked windshields (about a half-dozen over 26 years of driving, but four of them all on one car -- 1988 Mercury Tracer, all stones, just bad luck -- over only a four year period) were due to stones or other projectiles. But one was due to washing the car -- it was warm day, but not really hot, and I started to spray the car off to wash it, and "CRAAAACK!" The cool water hitting the sun-warmed windshield did it. Odd, because I had sprayed colder water onto warmer glass before without this happening. Probably just a slight imperfection in the glass but needed just the right conditions to cause the crack.

    I have no idea if windshield cracks are covered by the regular warranty -- I would bet that they are like brakes and tires and not covered. The best bet is to have a zero deductible on your comprehensive insurance. Windshields are usually in the $200 - 300 range (at least they were the last time I paid any attention) so if you have a $250 or $500 deductible you will have to pay. However, the cost between a $250 deductible and zero deductible comprehensive is surprisingly little -- probably less than $25 or so per year. At that rate it will take you 10 years or so to cover just one broken windshield. Since I've done six, I'm good for sixty years!

    Anyway, replacing the windshield is a pretty simple, quick job. Many glass places will even come right to your home or office and do the job there. Good luck!

    --K9Leader
    2000 OB Ltd wagon (43K miles, my daily driver)
    1998 Toyota Sienna (93K miles, wife's ride)
    1994 Lincoln Mark VIII (103K miles, my weekend sunny-day fun car)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    7 years, wow! Have you added distilled water regularly? That's great. Mine lasted half that time. I'd go ahead and replace it, with the same battery. And keep up those same habits!

    On that TS, make sure you give the fuel pump time to prime up the pressure before you start her up. Turn the key to the On position, listen for the "whirr", then start it.

    My comprehensive insurance covers windshields, does yours? My wife replaced hers twice when she had the 626.

    -juice
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    One of my - *very few and minor* - complaints about Subaru is their use of a group 35 "battery" in my Forester.

    "Glorified 'D' cell" would be more like it... 320 CCA stock ? You're kidding, right ?

    It's almost impossible to find a group 35 battery that's capable and affordable. Unfortunately, the battery tray is so small that no other size fits, even group 75 is too long. You can't upgrade to a bigger class, the air conditioning lines are in the way.

    Does it matter ? Well practically speaking, probably not - my Forester has always started without complaint, but we also live where the avg daytime high in January is 43F. It's a small thing, but a slightly wider battery tray would be nice. I wouldn't trust the OEM battery in the mountains overnight.

    I just replaced the OEM battery at 42 months with a Nascar Select 35-84, the only group 35 battery recommended by CR. 570 CCA. You can get group 75 up to 730 CCA. Now THAT'S a battery. Other classes run much larger, but would be overkill on a 4-cylinder.

    In our case, the OEM battery had a cell going down, causing the remaining cells to overcharge and "weep". Had to clean up the spilled battery acid while I was at it.

    Where I come from, less than 400 CCA is a joke. 500 and some is reasonable, but nothing to write home about.

    -brianV, who's thankful that these are the "issues" on his mind regarding Subaru :)
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Brian-
    a li'l expensive, but I had very good experiences with them.

    http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/34_78.pdf

    -Dave
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    True, they have a good rep, but man, $$$ !

    A little more space would be a better alternative, without going to exotic battery technologies.

    -brianV
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    As my "glorified 'D' cell" began to lose its power I replaced it with a DieHard Gold North from my neighborhood Sears Hardware. It's a Group 35 rated at 950 CCA.

    Ed
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I assume that was probably the most expensive battery Sears sells in this physical size. How did the cost of your 950 CCA little monster compare to, say, an Optima?
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Wow! You sure that's not the "CA" rating ? Difference is whether they test at 0 or 32 degrees.

    <Edit>

    I got curious and called Sears. Diehard Gold North in group 35 has CCA = 640.

    CA figure is always a lot higher. Price about the same as what I spent ~$80. Sounds like a good value.

    -brianV
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    CA = 950; CCA = 640. Price was $79 IIRC.

    Ed
  • cllaphamcllapham Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for the response subaru_team. I've read a lot of your responses and appreciate your calm approach, but I'm not getting anywhere on this.

    I received SOA's answer late last week. Same as the dealer: "...the car is not being driven enough." Of course, instead of suggesting a trickle-charger this time, they suggested (quote from their voicemail) "...crank the car every other day and let it run anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour, to let it idle, especially during our cold temperatures." Oh yeah, I'm going to back my car out of the heated garage and idle it in the driveway 30-60 minutes. And I thought plugging it in every night was unacceptable!!!

    Am I starting to sound a little upset? I am. I'm back to "what can I do?" I read here--and hear from all my other sources--that there is something wrong with my car. But since Subaru can't find the problem, they blame me. Right now I'm not sure whether to spend some serious money on an independent mechanic or an attorney.

    Are there any other tips for getting action out of SOA? (Or any dealer or manufacturer in general?) Do I need to be a very squeaky wheel? I'm willing to take my problem to a lot more websites and authorities. Does cost work? I'm planning to have my Forester towed in every time it fails to start until my warranty runs out. What else can I do? Being polite and following process hasn't gotten me anywhere but blamed.
    Sign me, Upset in Alaska
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    I would look at some obvious potential electric leaks like the radio, clock, alarm (if equipped), keyless entry. These are always on and using up the battery. Try pulling the fuses for these components while the battery is fully charged, leave the car alone for a week, open the door using a key, and start it up. If it starts up, one of these components is leaking a lot of electric juice.
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    Let me take a swag at this. I had a problem similar to yours when I owned a Toyota back in the late 80's. Our 95 Explorer also exhibited problems like this occasionally. What I discovered, and actually had someone explain once to me (don't know if they knew what they were talking about however), was that the security systems drain more power when they are not armed than when they are armed. I have never had a vehicle not start when I left it parked for 10 days at an airport with the alarm/security system armed. I did however have the vehicles mentioned above not start when left sitting for a week in the garage.

    I won't bother trying to fake my way through an explanation as to why this may be the cause, but it kind of makes sense to me since you wouldn't want the security system draining your battery if left armed for an extended period. I don't know why it would drain more power unarmed however.

    Try arming your security system in the garage and see if it makes any difference. You won't be out anything by trying it.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Any average technician should be able to determine in mere minutes whether or not any devices on your car are draining excessive amounts of current while the car is shut off - in no time at all. All that's necessary is to disconnect one battery cable and run a current tester (ammeter) between the battery post and the disconnected cable. This will establish whether or not any of the accessories are drawing so much juice that they're draining the battery down and leaving it flat. Nothing in a modern car should use enough electricity to drain a well-charged battery in even several weeks of non-use. I have a '91 van sitting outside that we drive at most once every two months, and it never fails to start.

    If the ammeter test doesshow that some device is drawing too much current, then (with the ammeter still connected as above) it can be isolated and identified by pulling fuses, one at a time, until the offending circuit is found (the ammeter reading will drop significantly with the fuse for the current-draining circuit out, and jump again with the fuse in).

    If the ammeter test does not show any excessive curent drain from the various gizmos (clock, radio, security system, etc), then there aren't that many other possibilities: (1) weak battery (which I gather you've already replaced several times), (2) corroded or loose battery cable connectors that aren't establishing a clean contact, (3) insufficient charge from your alternator while driving, (4) a defective starter motor with partially-shorted windings which requires more starting current than it should to turn the engine over, or (5) a defective starter solenoid that's failing to engage the starter at anything less than maximum full-charge voltage.

    If you continue to get nowhere with Subaru, I'd suggest finding a good independent auto electrical shop in your area and asking them to quote a fee to diagnose the problem.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Cheryl-
    I'd asked before but you did not enlighten.
    What Electrical and/or Electronic gadgets [OEM AND After-Market] do you have and use in your Forester L, or is it the Legacy, when it is driven?

    I'd asked because-

    Each time you crank the battery's charge will fall and will be recharged by the alternator. The vehicle in OEM form will then draw additional power to operate, but no more than what the alternator can replenish. If you have additional gadgets used which might exceed the alternators replenishment rate, you'll end up depleting the battery; hence, at the end of your drive you have a battery with even lesser charge than you started off with. Leave it over night or so, the passive electronics (i.e. alarm) will drain it some more and come the next time you crank... DEAD.

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I got a cheap $40 battery at Wal Mart with 535 CCAs, i.e. more than enough. Stock for my Forester was just 265 or so IIRC. I swear she runs smoother now.

    Given the bad luck with the OE battery, I'd make the cheap investment in the Sears battery mentioned above.

    Then, if you felt like it, try to seek partial reimbursement.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    If you have additional gadgets used which might exceed the alternators replenishment rate, you'll end up depleting the battery; hence, at the end of your drive you have a battery with even lesser charge than you started off with.

    Even in night driving with headlamps blazing, at anything above idle speed, a properly-operating alternator will have sufficient capacity to carry all the loads and stillprovide at least a small recharge flow to the battery if needed.

    In daytime driving with lights off (including, in my case, disabling the stupid daytime running lights), the alternator should be able to produce substantial surplus current for battery recharging.

    Either Cheryl's alternator isn't up to par, or something on her vehicle is draining above-spec current flows while her car is parked.
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    is rated at 75 amps. That's more than enough to handle even heavy loads, except at idle.

    I know because I have the performance gauge pack with a volt meter.

    On the other hand, if you're running 4 electric heaters (mirrors, rear window, and wipers) the dash fan, and main lights, like I was yesterday, the battery's being tapped at idle (meter reads 12.5 volts, battery's charged to 14.5 at full charge).

    With an eye on the volt meter, I abstained from running my seat heater... :) Another reason for running a bigger battery than stock.

    The alternator can handle normal loads (without all the electric heaters), including my electric trailer brakes (large extended draw), without even breathing hard.

    I don't understand Cheryl's problem either. This shouldn't be THAT hard to isolate and fix, as described above. And frankly, telling a customer to run their car at idle every few days is a bit over the top, IMO.

    -hypov: He must have had a boat load of electronics on board.

    -brianV
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    The alternator is sufficient to carry the load with everything OEM in the car On. But start adding gadgets and you're taking away the surplus to recharge the battery. Recall reading somewhere over the other board, a member who had gobs of electronics in his car that suck the battery's charge faster than the alternator could replenish. Engine just died in the middle of driving.

    -Dave

    BrianV - yup, IIRC, a boat load :)
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I can imagine that a car with a ton of added current-drawing accessories might exceed the alternator's capacity at night with headlamps and other lights burning, along with various heaters, but a battery's typical state of charge is an average of all the driving you do. Even if it slowly drains during max-load night driving, it should easily recharge while driving in the lights-off daytime - and a decent battery should have enough storage capacity to span the two.
  • ken_from_njken_from_nj Member Posts: 105
  • ken_from_njken_from_nj Member Posts: 105
    oops - return key challenged. why are they stupid? i thought they assisted in the 'safety' category? i know a car with lights on - even in the daytime - is often easier to spot with my eyes than one without lights. just curious the basis for yr opinion.
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    Have heard rumors that they can wear on the plastic lens-covers of your headlights, thus over time turning them cloudy (instead of clear). Have seen this on many Neons (but then again these are Neons), and other cars (VWs, GM sedans, and others).
  • troop2shostroop2shos Member Posts: 235
    Cloudy / yellowing plastic headlight lenses are from the effects of UV.
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    I too have seen studies coming out of Sweden if memory serves, that DRL's lower accident rates, particularly in early morning and evening hours when the sun is just rising or setting.

    Some folks have pretty strong opinions on them, haven't ever really figured out why.

    We drive with our normal low beams on all the time. I can't see how it would blind anyone when it's light out - afterall, your eyes are adjusted to a reasonable light level already.

    <shrug>

    They definately help when the sun is blinding though, no question.

    -brianV
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    1. Nothing comes for free. There's only one way to generate the electricity that's required to keep headlights on around the clock, and that's by burning extra fossil fuel in the engine to overcome the alternator's increased drag.

    2. I would have to see much more rigorous and all-other-variable-controlled analysis before I'll believe that headlamps on during the daytime have more than a negligible (or even coincidental) effect on actual accident rates. I turn my lights on whenever I think visibility might be an issue. I'll make that decision myself, thankyouverymuch, I don't need a big-brother carmaker or (even worse) government agency to make it for me.

    3. I've installed Philips Vision Plus bulbs for their better illumination. Famous pennypincher that I am, I don't want them squandering their costlier and finite lives by needlessly burning during broad daylight.

    4. The benefit from these sorts of well-intentioned but questionably-effective ideas tends to show up (if at all!) in the beginning (when they're "new") and then fade. Has anyone seen any recent rigorous studies that clearly establish that the now ubiquitous high-mounted-brakelight gadget is still actually saving any lives or preventing any collisions? That initial "startle" factor that accompanied the first ones is now long gone.

    Give me real lifesaving and/or accident-avoidance technology, like lap-and-shoulder belts and disk brakes and sensors to wake a drowsing driver. Keep drunks and street racers behind bars. That sort of thing. I'm not interested in the frou-frou stuff.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    should all tele-commute, stay at home, and let the UPS drivers deliver our essentials to us. -Sigh- but then we wouldn't need Foresters.

    John
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Cheryl,

    One sure way to eliminate the battery drain from the equation is to install a battery "switch". These devices go in series with the positive feed to the battery. This does require opening and closing the hood to engage/disengage.

    I'm certainly not recommending you use this as a permanent solution, but one to buy you some time while you "negotiate" with the dealer. It will certainly isolate the battery from anything that will drain it.

    Have you in fact had a stronger battery insalled?
    My battery in my 04 cranks the car awfully slow when the temp is in the low teens for a few mornings in a row, and I run mine daily back and forth to work (6 miles each way). I plan on dumping it in favor of a Sears / WalMart brand shortly.

    HTH

    Larry
  • dougb10dougb10 Member Posts: 185
    Ken...you said "I turn my lights on whenever I think visibility might be an issue". Good for you, and I am sure you are a responsible and safe driver. But what about all the morons out there who don't have a clue about the dangers of not being seen? These are the ones that I want to avoid.
    I have been driving cars with DTRL's since 1990...a total of 6 cars in that time. I have never had to replace one light in any of those cars. In Canada, these lights are mandatory on new cars...you get used to them and it sometimes causes me problems when drivers do not turn their lights on at dusk or in the rain. These cars do not have DTRL's...either the cars are pre 1990 or are from the U.S., from States that do not require them.
    At least with DTRL's, I might have a chance to see the drunk coming down the street....fat chance he would have the sense to turn his lights on if he doesn't have them.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Don't blame Ken. It was I who wrote that, not him.

    I honestly don't believe a vehicle in broad daylight that has its DTRLs on is any more visible to me than one without. They don't blink, they don't swivel, they're static. They're also tiny, compared to the size of the vehicle. If I can't see the vehicle in daylight, I'm not much more likely to see its headlights, washed-out as they are in bright sunlight.

    If lights-on on the front works so well, why leave the rear unlit? Wouldn't 24-hour taillights be equally important? And what about the unlit sides? Why not install sideways-aimed headlights and turn them on round-the-clock, too?

    Sorry. The arguments just don't persuade. And the weakest one is that this or that nation has made them mandatory, so we should follow along like so many sheep.
  • subkidsubkid Member Posts: 94
    do you stop at STOP sign or red light all the time, or only when you think there's a need to (i.e incoming traffic). Also, do you use blinkers every time you turn/change the line or only when they might (in your opinion) be meaninghful to someone ? :):)

    Turning DTRs into some kind of conspiracy theory, human rights thing, personal freedom issue ...
    give me a break.

    Without getting deeper into the formal studies, I can attest to the fact that motor bicycle drivers in Europe were using them all the time 30+ years ago, without any kind of government(s) input. One would think, they being a part of very vulnerable population on the road, might know why.

    K
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I can think of one unarguable justification for DTRLs. Those morons Doug cited are probably the same ones who drive along pitchdark nighttime streets totally clueless that their headlights aren't on. At least with DTRLs, that won't happen. So forget everything I said, if you already haven't.
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    On 2 lane roads the DRLs are certainly invaluable. No matter how visible you might think you are without them they definitely add to the visibility of on coming traffic while attempting a pass.

    bit
  • ken_from_njken_from_nj Member Posts: 105
    ok - tks for the deflection ballistic - yes - you said that line, not me. as for more info - here's a link http://www.hwysafety.org/safety_facts/qanda/drl.htm specifically i'll refer to point 4 which states that studies have shown a decrease in daytime accidents in areas where DRL are common/required. I'm taking it for granted that the stats shown are correct and the result of good/reliable studies of course. here are some more study results, http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/DRLs/studies.htm
    sorry that this is pretty far off topic of 'forester problems & solutions so i'll not continue after this post. the above obtained by doing a google search on 'daytime running lights safety' one can also check out www.lightsout.org - apparently an organization designed around eliminating this vehicle feature. so draw your own conclusions about the effectiveness of DRLs. My opinion is they don't bother me and infact they help me see/identify other cars on the road. (maybe i'll strap a lighthouse to the roof...)
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    There are a couple of discussions in the archives concerning the merits/negatives of daytime running lights. If you're interested, I can activate it.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I think we/I have pretty well beat it to death.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    (maybe i'll strap a lighthouse to the roof...)

    Don't do that. Consumers' Union or Ralph Nader will do a rollover test and drive Subaru out of business because your topheavy rig failed.
  • dougb10dougb10 Member Posts: 185
    Sorry for blaming you Ken, I read the headline too quickly.
    I guess this is just one other topic that we "can agree to disagree". There is a whole ton of folks out there who also think it is against their civil rights to force them to buckle up...while the rest of us pay through the nose with increased medical costs after they get thrown from the vehicle and are mangled.
    Oh well, as my 90 year old mother always said..."to each his own".
    Happy Holidays.

    Doug
  • baxterthedogbaxterthedog Member Posts: 3
    I love my 97 Outback. Small prob. It runs rough at idle, and gets only 20 mpg. I had a tune up, filters et al. It still runs bad. I had a mechanic pull the platinum plug and the #2 had a grey burnt mark on it as did the plug boot. He also said the compression was down to 70. What the heck do I do to save my beloved car? Should I replace the plug/boot and see what happens, my car has 120,000 miles. Thank you & God bless
  • baxterthedogbaxterthedog Member Posts: 3
    My 93 Loyale w/ 145,000 miles is a blessing. I have had a freaky thing happen when I began getting pinhole leaks in every coolant hose that car has. Advice? Also, I am meticulous about maintaining the car. I have a scary oil leak coming from the bottom middle of the timing belts cover right in front of where the oil filter goes (oil pump I think) what should I do? Happy Hanukkah & Xmas
  • baxterthedogbaxterthedog Member Posts: 3
    My dash lights don't work at all on my 93 Loyale. Didn't when I bought it, and still don't. I replaced the dimmer switch, no luck. There is power going to the switch (checked w/ a light) but no go. All the fuses check ok. Any advice?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you've lost compression, it's only going to get slowly worse. That's not a cheap fix, either. Could be the valves or the piston rings.

    For the Loyale, easy, just replace all the rubber hoses. They're 11 years old and by now they are dry rotted, brittle, and basically spent. These are cheap and easy to replace, so just swap 'em out. Change all the rubber belts if you haven't already, or if they seem worn upon inspection.

    Leak sounds like it's the O-ring on the front main seal, to the oil pump. Access is not entirely easy, but parts are cheap. If you change the timing belt, labor is paid for.

    Electrical is not my game at all, I'll let someone else chime in.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    There is a whole ton of folks out there who also think it is against their civil rights to force them to buckle up...while the rest of us pay through the nose with increased medical costs after they get thrown from the vehicle and are mangled.

    While I think DTRLs border on silly (especially if there ever forms a movement to mandate them), in no way does that mean I'm anti-safety. I installed lap belts myself, for all positions, beginning in 1960 on my first car and every one since until they started showing up as standard equipment. I resisted airbags for awhile, mainly because their original rationale was to protect people too lazy or stupid to buckle up. Let Darwin's theory weed 'em out, I used to say. I still feel that way about morons who don't buckle up, and I have always favored mandatory-seatbelt laws. I've seen several crashes where the airbags clearly worked together with the belts to reduce the forces involved and minimize the mayhem.
  • dougb10dougb10 Member Posts: 185
    We must be of similar vintage. In 1961, I had a '61 Chevy Bel Air as a company car. My sales manager would not approve the expense of adding seat belts (they were just the lap belts then) because they cost a whole ten bucks each. So I went and had them installed myself.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    They were particularly essential in those cars, because every dash panel had hard metal surfaces, zillions of projecting metal knobs, and so forth. A minor incident back then could produce major injuries. Today's cars are like cocoons inside compared to those.
  • troop2shostroop2shos Member Posts: 235
    I made sure I had & wore seatbelts in my British sports cars, etc., from the 60's on - didn't have to hang onto the wheel through a turn for precise apex control...& to keep from being impaled by the non-collapsible steering wheel in a sudden stop. However, your date couldn't sit next to you on those old bench seats in a full size vehicle if belted on the far side of the lane... :). Also, there was less traffic risk back then.

    '04 FXT
    '00 Troop
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