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Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

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Comments

  • sing4mesing4me Member Posts: 9
    It's time for a 60K service and I need some advice. I have a 1998 Sub Legacy that I bought in October of 2001 with about 30K miles on it. Now I have 60K miles and I've experienced a huge range in fuel efficiency. It seems to be related to ambient temperature. In outdoor temperatures above 70 degrees F my gas mileage will be over 300 miles on an 11-gallon fillup (I am a slave to routine). Once it's below 70 degrees, the mileage drops to about 250 miles per fillup, even on long drives (VT to NJ) at highway speed.

    I buy Mobil or Shell gas because that's what's available. This is not a hard-starting car, it seems to warm up "normally", it seems not to make unusual noises, doesn't have clouds of blue or white smoke from the exhaust. I have a 20-minute stop-and-go daily commute, but I have a 65-mile highway drive (one way) to the country every weekend. And there are those occasional trips to NJ.

    Is this kind of mileage difference unusual? My dealer's service department is not filled with energetic, enthusiastic problem-solvers. I need to spell things out for them in grim detail.

    My son the Volvo mechanic said if this were a Volvo they'd check a temperature sensor. What should I tell the Subaru mechanics?

    Thanks for the help.

    Elizabeth near Burlington, VT
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    But the only time I've seriously noticed it is late-fall to winter. Combustion is lower when heat is lower. Remember last summer when firefighters would pray for colder weather to keep flames down? Same thing happens with a vehicle.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Trivia tidbit for you: VT is the state in which Subaru has its highest market share. :-)

    What oil are you using? My guess is they put in 10w40. I would use a thinner oil, 10w30 or even 5w20, when it's really cold out.

    Another thing to consider is an engine block heater. You'd leave it plugged in so that it's already warm when you start it.

    At really cold temps, you'll get approximatley zero miles per gallon until the engine warms up. ;-)

    -juice
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    In some states the gas itself is different in winter than in summer. More corn-brewed alcohol in the mix. So summer and winter gas mileage could be different because the gas itself is not the same. Or so someone told me.

    Steve
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    I'll second what Steve said regarding "winter blend" (oxygenated) gas. The blends used here in the Midwest decrease my mpg in winter by 2-3 mpg.
    Ron
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    I try to drive out of area to at least get a blend in during the winter because it drops so low. Average regular fuel mileage 26-28. Average oxygenated 19-22.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Now that I think about it, my mileage drops by about 2mpg in the winter as well.

    Still, try the suggestions above, maybe change brands of gas and track your mileage to see what helps.

    Then share the results with us, of course! :-)

    -juice
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    The synthetic oil's base stock, additive packages and viscosity can handle the full length interval (7500), but you might consider the suspended particulate levels. These are a natural consequence of any engine operation, but increased with severe conditions (stop and go traffic, hot climate, cold climate, towing, mountain use, etc). The only way to control this is by improving filtration.

    I'm a synthetic junkie and have a few similar minded buddies. A few of them use incredibly long intervals by replacing the filter at 5000 miles and adding oil to replace that removed with the filter. You don't seem like the type to do this yourself since you have the dealer involved in your oil changes, but this would be the best of all worlds - top filtration and top oil.

    That service manager is a rare bird, indeed. Also, to the post above reporting 53k miles and no problems. Generally, oil neglect will surface later than this unless it's severe. I've personally seen cars run to 50,000 miles on the original crankcase of oil it left the factory with that only began showing symptoms in the mid 40k mile range. If you keep a car into the 150k mile range and beyond, that's when you'll see the benefits of a synthetic or early change oil strategy.
  • sing4mesing4me Member Posts: 9
    Thanks, all. Yes, VT has zillions of Subarus on the road. Not around Burlington, though - more in the central and Eastern part of the state where dirt roads and steep hills make AWD a blessing if not a necessity. Volvos, Saabs and Toyotas plus the domestic makers still abound in Burlington. There's one Subaru dealer here and no independent mechanics (that I've found) that work on Subes. Sigh.

    We also have oxygenated gas in the winter. I know I get lower gas mileage at temps below 40 (winter range temps). My question came from wondering why gas mileage changes at the 70-degree F outside temperature point, because I'm getting "winter" gas mileage most of spring and fall. Well, I shall try a little of everything and see if I get a different result. If I have any news to report (in the spring, I guess) I'll let you know.

    Elizabeth
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I fell a few hundred posts behind on this and several other Subaru forums, and am fighting valiantly to catch up. I have an '02 OBW (2.5EJ series II single cam H4 w/automatic), so a few late observations, and my $.02 worth with this engine in mind:

    1) This automatic does have the external cartridge filter (looks like a spin-on engine oil filter).

    2) Radiator cap appears to be the highest point of the cooling system. I cannot find a bleed valve anywhere on the cooling system. I remember reading here and on i-club last year about the need to lift the front end to ensure air removal from the heater core and engine internal passages. Otherwise hot spots and blown head gaskets are a risk.

    Also, any clue (just curious) where the thermostat is? The upper radiator hose connects to a housing on the RHS head/block area, but the same casting seems to bridge over to the LHS head/block, all under the intact tract. Typical thermostat location would be here, but it looks impossible to get to....

    3) I have thought a lot about the 'single point ground' issue first raised on i-club, but have yet to get out the DVM and do some dynamic tests. I traced the battery-block-body wiring, and it certainly looks adequate and with sufficient number of points. I have some minor concern about the proper use of star washers and paint removal, though, so it is possible that some vehicles may respond differently under load (ground levels elevate unevenly). I do have some hesitation coming off the line, so I will let you all know if I find anything from my tests.

    4) The cold air intake plastic tract has three different boxes/protrusions hanging off of it - two on the fender, one just before the filter box. Interesting! People who study 'fluid mechanics' treat air much like liquids in their flow characteristics. Although compressible, they do have start/stop momentum, create standing waves, etc. These 'reservoirs' help to smooth turbulance created during rapid throttle changes, and can even help 'pack' air into the engine when needed for peak HP, or improved low end torque. I would not suggest removing them in an effort to gain power - some engineer spent late nights already trying to maximize flow for your driving enjoyment!

    5) I still hate the front differential dip stick location - nearly impossible to pull out amid the wires and hoses crossing over it along the firewall....

    Steve
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Welcome back. Actually, you're lucky as the boards have not been that active recently.

    1) The 2000 Legacy/Outback Service manual (volume 1)states that the auto transmission filter is a zero maintenance part. It only needs to be replaced if damaged.

    2) No mention of bleeding the cooling system I'll re-read the section and see what else I can find out. I recall that it does mention warming-up the engine and adding more coolant after it cools. Think the thermostat replacement is in a different volume...which I didn't buy.

    5) I agree. That's the same location as the manual gearbox dipstick. The first time I looked, I didn't see anything yellow at all.

    Jim
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I don't know about the OB's, but Subaru/FHI has addressed the issue on the new Impreza's.

    I was shocked when I saw that the dipstick was in easy reach, above all of the wiring and hoses.

    -Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    For the fluid, my factory manual on the SVX says to run the car with the heat on for 5 min @ 3K RPMS, let it cool and top it off. The Thermostat on the SVX is also on the engine side of the lower rad. hose. The upper hose disappears under the intake manifold.

    -mike
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    The EJ25 phase II thermostat is located on the engine side of the lower radiator hose.

    How do I know ? I replaced the thermostat housing cover on my '01 Forester MT when I installed the OEM engine oil cooler. The engine oil cooler is standard on Foresters with AT, but not on MT models. Not sure about the OBS.

    With the oil cooler, there's a hose coupling leading off of the thermostat housing cover that connects to a metal tube running across the front of the engine, parallel to the radiator. This is connected to a heat exchanger mounted between the block and the oil filter. The other side of the heat exchanger is connected to the engine block drain on the passenger side of the vehicle.

    You might want to see if you've got one of these. If not, it's a great mod for moderate dollars. I got mine from Teague's in NC. About 30-45 minutes for peace of mind, especially if you drive enthusiastically or tow. You don't even need to lift the vehicle (at least not on the Forester).

    -brianV
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    The Service Manual is wrong, it's not 4.2 qts. The MT takes 3.7 qts of gear oil as the Owner's Manual states.

    Fortunately, pumping it out wasn't that hard.

    Jim
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Ok, since my OB is totalled, and I've still got a year and a half/34k miles left on it. Y'all think I could get a refund on it?

    -Dave
  • bwilliams7bwilliams7 Member Posts: 2
    Hello, we bought a six cylinder Outback a few months ago and my husband has to add water to the car every time our daughter returns home from school. The dealer has checked it out, tested the cap? and says nothing is wrong. As winter is coming we are getting nervous, don't want her to get stranded on the side of the road somewhere, suggestions or information would be greatly apprecaited.
    Bee
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    I think you can always get your money back if you haven't actually used it yet.
  • phred45phred45 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport. On a rainy day after I left work and had driven about6 miles I came to an intersection when the traffic light turned yellow. I applied the brakes normal not hard and the ABS went into action and locked. My speed was about 30 mph when approaching. The car lurched into the intersection in several separate jumps. I was afraid it wouldn't stop at all. I drive through that intersection all the time nothing ever happened before. The brakes reacted the same again after 56 more miles on the interstate and about 8 more miles in to town at another red light. This time I almost jumped into the car in front of me. I was on my way to the dealer for an oil change. When I described what happened he told me that's normal for ABS brakes. I hope that's not true. Any suggestions?
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Bee,

    You didn't note the car's year or mileage? Also, if winter's coming and your husband is continuously adding plain water to a cooling system then your antifreeze (what SHOULD be added) may be insufficient to prevent freezing the engine. Clarify that with him. You also don't note how MUCH water is being added?

    On the braking thing, I suspect you are having your first ABS brake experiences here? If you are unfamiliar with ABS braking feel, you should go into a large empty parking lot on a rainy day and get a feel for how they work and feel. Your comment that the car is "lurching" forward indicates that you are actually saying the car accelerates forward with your foot on the brake ("almost jumped into the car in front of me..."). Either you don't mean to say that, or you really need to get familiar with the feel of ABS brakes. My feeling on it is that you were not aware of just how slick it happened to be that rainy day and that without the ABS brakes you might have locked your brakes and spun while applying what you thought was safe braking on unexpectedly slick pavement.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    you get that $ back. Just contact them about it.

    -mike
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    "But the only time I've seriously noticed it is late-fall to winter. Combustion is lower when heat is lower. Remember last summer when firefighters would pray for colder weather to keep flames down? Same thing"

    And I thought that internal combustion engine increases efficiency with lower temperature.

    I thought that firefighters were praying for wet weather, temperature is not as important as humidity during fires.

    Krzys

    PS Theory about winter/summer fuel sounds very probable.
  • jwillmladyjwillmlady Member Posts: 4
    I have a 1998 Right-hand drive Legacy Postal Wagon. I go through alot of brakes. But I do not understand the sounds they make. I used to put on new ones and they were fine until they were hot. They would make some noise but I could understand that. Now I just had front, back and new drums replaced. After about an hour into my route I hear a high pitched whistling noise only when I am moving. Then close to the end of my route I hear grinding noises until I can get moving a little faster. When I start out in the morning they are fine. It is really irritating. Of course the mechanic thinks I am not hearing it. I have owned the car since it was new. Just once I would like to drive a car that does not have any brake noise! Anyone know why I am hearing this?
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    ABS engagement can be unnerving sometimes so it's a great idea to pratice using it in a safe and empty lot. Basically, you need to stay on the brakes for ABS to do it's job. Under most conditions, ABS will stop you sooner than locking your brakes, but the most important thing about ABS is that it lets you steer out of harms way.

    One other thing you might want to check is your tire tread. ABS kicking in when stopping at an intersection sounds a little unusal to me.

    Ken
  • travisscott1travisscott1 Member Posts: 1
    HELP!!! I purchased a used Legacy (all time four wheel drive, standard trans.),and shortly there the rear differential got smoking hot and was howling. It had not been leaking prior to this. So I found a used one and checked it for filings and put in new gear oil and a couple hundred miles later it is doing the same thing. After 20 or 30 minutes of sustained speeds of 60 to 70 mph it gets to hot to touch and is smoking. It does not seem to do this during slower stop and go driving. Tires are all the same size though the rears have a bit more wear than the fronts.
    Car does not "hop" when turning sharply. Tranny does have some noise but not bad. Any help or advice????? thanks, Travis
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    I drive a virtually identical '97 (though I sit on the correct side - heh) and have a couple ideas. First though, do a better job describing the sounds and when they occur. Also, what does your route consist of - rural roads with sand/gravel shoulder, or do you have a route in a suburb, etc? You know where I'm going with that, of course.

    Back to the noises. Do you hear them only when applying the brakes? Also, the whistle - at what speed do you hear it, and again only when applying the brakes or all the time? Since you've had it since new, has it always done this? How many miles on the car? Basically, part with some more info and I'll give you my pet theories and a simple way to diagnose it.

    IdahoDoug
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    My dad has a '97 legacy L w/4wheel discs and he has similar noises. No idea why and the brakes themselves are fine. He's had that for a few years now.

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Are you using OEM brakes? The brakes on my 97 OBS were noisy since the day I got the car. It was a very loud grinding type sound. Almost sounded like metal on metal. Had them cleaned a few times by the dealer and it helped a little.

    The noise was so loud that when my pads wore down, I could not hear the worn brake indicators.
    I went with Meineke pads which were quiet but caused other problems (like warped rotors - they could've been over-torqued though).

    -Dennis
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    in all the years I had my OBS, the only time I ever activated my ABS was on snow or ice - is it possible that the road was freezing? Also, as others have said, if this is the first time you have ever had ABS, it does take a little getting used to.

    bwilliams7 - your outback cannot be very old if it has the 6-cyl...you need to find out where the water is going...if something is leaking like the water pump, there will be a stain on the engine cover, and even a puddle on the ground? Are you adding water to the expansion tank (the little plastic tank attached to the radiator?)? If you are adding too much, it may be overflowing out of there and making you think it is leaking.

    Of course, if there are no leaks ANYWHERE and you are not overfilling it, then the only other possibility is some type of head gasket defect, which will be repaired under warranty, so in that case you should have it checked out by the dealer. But look for leaky hoses and water pump first. Don't forget to check the heater hoses back near the firewall.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • amsbearamsbear Member Posts: 147
    Has anyone tried the Motive Products Power Bleeder or any similar product(s)? It sure looks as if it would make flushing the brake lines of the old fluid a snap.

    Alan
    98 OB Ltd
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You can get a pro-rated refund on that warranty, I believe.

    On the brakes - I wonder if they lubed the caliper's pistons before re-assembling the brakes.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bee: next time, before adding coolant, have your hubby check the radiator itself (wait 'til it cools completely). As long as that's full, you should be OK. The overflow tank is seconday, just a reserve.

    We're having an on-going discussion about the H6's cooling system, one theory being that the overflow tank isn't big enough for the temperature variations on that engine.

    I think the engine warms up, the coolant expands, flows into the overflow tank, and it spills from that tank. It dries up before you park, hence no traceable leak. When the engine cools down, the coolant contracts, sucking coolant back into the radiator, leaving a lower level in the overflow tank.

    Travis: that's a tough one. Let's see.

    That was probably an open diffy, not limited slip. Those came later IIRC. So side-to-side variations are not the problem. It's front-to-rear.

    Given the rear tires are more worn than the fronts - there's your problem, most likely. Though I'm surprised it's the rear diffy that shows the symptom.

    I'd get 4 new tires.

    -juice
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Do a search on brake bleeders and you'll find several instructions on building your own. Most use a garden sprayer as the pressure source.

    Actually, it appears that the hardest part to find reasonably priced might be the master cylinder cap.

    Jim
  • bwilliams7bwilliams7 Member Posts: 2
    Thank you all for responding. We have learned some disappointing info about our car.
    We were able to contact the previous owner, a very nice gentleman and had quite a lengthy chat concerning the car, a 2001 with approximately 18,000 miles on it. The automobile was traded in because the company would not fix the problem of the water getting out of the tank, and they tried about nine times to fix it.
    We were told that Subaru said that they could not find the problem and that they couln't fix what they couldn't find even though the car was taken back to the shop with the little white tank empty of water alot of times. It was not leaking anywhere.
    We are going to try and get rid of the car, I am nervous about my daughter driving it all the way to Philadelphia alot, she has taken our Jeep back and I get to drive this stinky car.
    The man says that the we will only get annoyed if we try to fix things by talking to the people at Subaru, according to him they don't care about this condition and will only test the cap again and again and will finally say that they won't do any more.
    How can they sell cars like this.
    Again, bless you all for the messages.
    Bee
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    overall the car has been extremely reliable so far - have not heard of this type of problem from anyone else?

    Normally one of the strongest components of Subie engineering is the cooling system.

    Like Juice said - be sure the radiator level is actually lowering when cold - this may be more illusion than reality.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • cjmustangcjmustang Member Posts: 3
    Since the topic of coolant loss came up, just wondered how much coolant loss is considered normal. On my 02 OBS the coolant level in the overflow tank has dropped about 1 inch after 11,000 miles. I would think the loss from evaporation would cause this. There is a slight gap on the top of the overflow tank where the hose enters with dried antifreeze residue around it. What do you guys think?
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    I have also experienced coolant loss from the overflow (white) tank. Leak tests at the dealer have not found any problems. The regional Subaru service manager has been involved and we are testing some things.

    One theory is that the overflow tank range from low to high is not sufficient for the H6 engine (only about 1 pint) and that each car has a normal level of the overflow tank, and will seek it. I would suggest that you not add any coolant to the car and see where it stabilizes; each morning with the engine cold, open the radiator cap. The coolant should be full. If not let us know and then take the car in to the dealer; there is no way that they can ignore dropping coolant in the actual coolant system. If they do, let it overheat, die, and get a new engine free.

    In my case, the coolant level has stabilized about an inch above the low level. Don't give up yet, maybe we can help you figure it out.

    Any other thoughts? I will be glad to have my suggestions overruled by wiser hands.

    Mike
  • jmac94jmac94 Member Posts: 7
    I recently had a tune up done on my 97OB Sport (has approx. 54000 miles). Including an oil change, tire rotation, changing the air filter, fuel filter, spark plugs, 2 serpentine belts, and a coolant flush/fill.

    Afterwards, the belts squeaked horribly so I applied belt dressing which helped for a couple days at a time. I did this twice over a couple of weeks and then brought the car back in. After an initial defensive stance the mechanic agreed that the belts were a bit loose, tightened them, and the squeak was gone.

    The problem is that now my car smells like burning rubber. This is a very strong odor and is noticeable just by approaching the car. The smell seems to be coming from under the hood. It also comes right through the vents. The mechanic is now insisting that the belts are fine and could not be causing this smell. I thought he may have over tightened them. He claims that they cannot be over-tightened and that the smell may be the belt dressing burning off (from a month ago) and the smell may or may not go away.

    Does anyone have any idea what the smell could be? Can the belts be over-tightened, and if so, could they cause this smell?

    -Joe
  • bettycbettyc Member Posts: 3
    I would very much appreciate any advice you might be able to give about a 1990 legacy wagon. I have looked everywhere! I am trying to find out what the common problems are, also how they might be repaired or replaced. Thank you in advance!
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    joe--

    first of all, they're just accessory belts. a serpentine belt is when a car has just one accessory belt that "snakes" around everything. ;-)

    secondly, I've never used belt dressing in my life so I don't know if that's the cause of the smell. check the belts for signs of melting. if you don't see any signs, ask your mechanic if he inspected the timing belt and if so if he removed it.

    any odd noises, especially at cold start?

    -Colin
  • jmac94jmac94 Member Posts: 7
    Colin,

    Thanks for the reply and pardon my mechanical ignorance. I just read 2 serpentine belts off of the receipt. I had them changed because they were dried out and beginning to crack.
    There hasn't been any odd noises when I start the car except the belts originally squeaking when they were changed. I'll check the belts for any signs of melting and ask about the timing belt.

    -Joe
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Thanks - with a mirror and flashlight I found the t-stat housing.

    So now I am curious - is this a reverse flow cooling system? On most cars that I have worked on, the t-stat is located on top of the engine with the poppet valve into the block to sense the highest water temp flowing past it. If you put it on the bottom of the engine and still had water flow from top to bottom in the radiator, the t-stat would have cooled water flowing past it. I would think that would shut it down prematurely???

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Perhaps the belts wore a little when they were loose. Now they aren't mating perfectly to the teeth? Just a thought. Check the belts themselves on the inside.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Earl: I wouldn't be worred about just an inch. A completely empty tank is different.

    Mike: thanks for sharing the experience. How long has your coolant level remained stable?

    Betty: those air bladders can be quite pricey to replace. Something like $500 per corner. If they are 13 years old and have not been replaced yet, I'd avoid that car.

    -juice
  • bettycbettyc Member Posts: 3
    Thanks Ateixeira! But the "air bladders" are fine. It's the electronic part that is giving me the blues. There are no air leaks, the sensors may be the problem. Any idea where I might get the layout of this particular system? PATTI? Thanks, as always. BC
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    paisan is familiar with these, he priced out replacing all of the parts recently, even though he ended up converting to springs from an Impreza RS.

    You could e-mail parts@libertysubaru.com and ask for a complete list of parts needed to re-do the air suspension, then subtract the parts you know are good.

    Maybe if paisan reads this he can help us out some more.

    -juice
  • bettycbettyc Member Posts: 3
    THANKS A MILL!
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    I'm taking my H6 LLBean in for its 31200 service today - including having the coolant changed. My level seems to hang around just below the MIN level. I also feel it is an issue with the size of the tank. In 31200 miles I only added coolant once...
    As suggested, I'm going to monitor the level via a cold engine look down the radiator fill cap. Will report along the way. [This will be a weekend thing, since I use a remote start feature during the week :-) ]
    Subaru only recommends changing the brake and coolant fluids? In fact, service rep said transmission doesn't need changing until 60K?? I won't wait that long!

    Ralph
  • calnatctcalnatct Member Posts: 1
    I have a '99 Outback (2.5L) which had some problems keeping oil. The engine has now seized (no real warning signs). A colleague had the exact same thing happen with her '99 Outback-seized engine. Neither car had obvious oils leaks, etc.
    Has anyone else had problems with their '99 Outbacks losing oil or having the engine seize?
    I'm curious if this is a freak coincidence (2 people with the same year and model-same dealer, etc.) or more common.
    Thanks
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I would think you are more likely to get a burning rubber smell from belts that are slipping as opposed to belts that are too tight.

    Cheers Pat.
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