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Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

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Comments

  • pnassmacpnassmac Member Posts: 37
    jcy02ob,

    I bought my first Subaru ('03 Forester) just three months agon and am also adjusting to the "noise" from the I4. I would have to agree with the tech, if my experience with Japanese engines these past ten years give me enough credibility in your eyes.

    The bigger makes I'm familiar with (Honda, Toyota) do seem to have engines that run smoother and quieter. In contrast is the boxer engine. I noticed it right away but was comfortable with it and have been comfortable with it the last few months. It's been close to 30 degrees where I live and it does sound louder, but all-in-all I consider it normal and part of the adjustment of owning a subaru because of the boxer engine.

    I can sympathize with your concern. Ownership of this brand is a very foreign (and thus - new) experience and I react with concern as well since there is no baseline against which I can judge this vehicle within the brand. But reading your post and others similar to it and the responses, my expectation is it's normal.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Many engines have their characteristic sound to my well tuned automotive ears. Often, this unique acoustic signature is due to the engine's unusual design, such as the raspy Porsche engines (opposed engines like the Sube engine), the chirp of the old VW Beetle engine (minute amounts of pressure escaping from the block seams due to unique construction technique), the horrid rattling of most American V6s (V6s are inherently unbalanced), the hum of a BMW inline 6 (inherently balanced), etc. I think you have an inordinately good ear for someone not in the auto industry and all you're hearing is a unique acoustic signature of the boxer style engine. My well cared for Sube engine is faintly dissonant upon cold start as well, which disappears after warm up. I suspect it is unique to the opposed cylinder design and would not be concerned about it. Congrats on the curse of good hearing! (also, your prior experience with the Olds has undoubtedly left you a tad paranoid and has made listening for trouble an automatic reflex).

    IdahoDoug
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Ken,

    Stop scratching your heads and pull out a tape measure. :-)

    IdahoDoug
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    that one gave me a chuckle!

    I had a '97 OBS with the 2.2L DOHC, and the valves clattered and chattered like that every time it was cold, just for a minute or two, then it went away.

    Every Subie I have ever had prior to that one did the same thing, except the sound stayed all thru the drive with the oldest ones.

    It certainly is not faintly dissonant - if you have the radio off you will hear it.

    BUT, it is perfectly routine for the engines Subie makes, and cold definitely makes it worse. if you live in the southwest, you probably will not hear the noise at all during the summer.

    And my experience is that the engines last forever, so clearly the noise is not doing anything detrimental.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Wow, I better start saving my pennies for that legover! :) I dropped by the TXIC forum cause I heard there was a big-to-do over there and figured I'd weigh in on it, trying to straighten stuff out over there not just in TXIC. :)

    -mike
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Doug,

    I'll tell my friend to do that as soon as he gets his Forester back from the shop!

    Ken
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    Most midgrades at modern stations are mixed immediately at the pump. Half from the regular tank, and half from the premium tank. My Subbie works best with midgrade and I've never had a problem with it being bad gas just because it's midgrade.
  • lspivalspiva Member Posts: 49
    Everybody. I just need a general advise on what type of engine oil is better for 03 Forester. Is old style original or syntetic? I always though that syntetic is better because it thinner and then it is easier on the engine parts in day to day commute traffic. On other hand, I have heard that because syntetic is too thin, it migh cause a likage from the engine. Last time I changed my oil for syntetic and did not really see any improvement in a way of fuel economy or engine performance. So now I am close to my second oil change (I change it every three months or three thousand miles whichever comes first) and would like to hear opinion of the Subaru owners which oil do they use. Thanks in advance for your time. Leo
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Isn't 60k kind of late to switch and obtain any benefit?

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    waterguy: take it back and demand 1) an apology and 2) a full detailing of the under carriage and engine bay.

    Boxers have, by design, perfect 2nd order balance. That's why even though it's a big four banger, at 2.5l, it still doesn't use balance shafts. An in-line four of that size with no balance shafts would probably shake itself right out of the engine bay!

    That said, they do have a characteristic growl. You can hear a Subie coming. A Honda/Toyota/Mazda/Nissan basically sound the same, like a sewing machine. And not all are quiet, for the most part they save that for the Lexus and Acura models.

    The 2.5l is bored out from the same block as the 2.2l, so the cylinder walls aren't as thick and it'll be more noisy. Any big 4 cylinder will be, basically.

    Look at the H6 - it's super-smooth and a lot more quiet. I had to look at the tach to tell it was running.

    Now, back to the H4, and Leo asks the question at the perfect time. Would synthetic help? I think so. It flows better, and doesn't get as thick when it's cold. When you start your engine, it takes about 7 seconds to establish oil pressure. Even after that, the oil isn't flowing very well until it's warmed up, so try to avoid putting much load on this (actually, any) engine before it's warm. Note that BMW has a variable redline on some engines, it's as low as 4000 rpm when the engine is cold.

    But yeah, synthetic flows better and doesn't get as thick when it's really cold. That will quiet the valve clatter sooner, at least in theory.

    Another alternative is an engine block heater. It's a factory option and fairly easy to install, from what Pat said in a chat (he installed one on his GT, lives in frigid Canada).

    Good luck.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Leo,

    Synthetic oil trumps conventional oil in every way. It resists breakdown better, holds a more constant viscosity over a broader range of temperature, less likely to form sludge. There are tons of reports of owners that used synthetic oil, tore down the engine well after 100K miles and found it to be sparking clean.

    The only downside to synthetic is price. It costs 2-3X more per quart than dino oil.

    It's a misconception that synthetic oil is "thinner". Synthetic oil is available in a wide range of viscosities. What you probably are refering to is seal leakage from using synthetic in an older engine. Sometimes, older engines have build up from conventional oil helping to plug up faulty seals. Using synthetic can unlodge these plugs and cause the seals to leak.

    Ken
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    There are pros and cons for each type.

    Conventional Pro. Inexpensive. New SL Classification has some synthetic in by nature in the lighter weights, and much better anti-sludging capabilities than in the past, better on seals (Causes slight swelling). CON harder to start in cold, leaves deposits inside engine, doesn't have the long range capabilities of synthetic; slightly higher gas mileage.

    Synthetic. Pro: Keeps inside of engine cleaner; can be used for longer intervals due to higher detergents and cleaners as well as the oil itself; slightly lower gas mileage (1-2 MPG); less likely to sludge or fail. Cons: costs up to 4 times the cost of conventional; doesn't help seals (although it doesn't hurt them, it won't plug up small pinholes and leaks out quicker).

    If you're going only 3 months or 3,000 miles, synthetic would be a waste of money. If you go 5,000 miles or 5 months then it could even out. You shouldn't have seal problems on a new vehicle with even a pure synthetic.

    On my older Subbie, I now use a 50% mix of high mileage oil and synthetic and go 4,000 miles or 6 months which ever comes sooner. This works very well for me. What you should actually use is still a subject of debate.
  • micpc1micpc1 Member Posts: 2
    We have a 93 subaru legacy with auto tranny. Miles = 130k. Sometimes with no rhyme or reason the transmission will not engage into reverse, other times it engages just fine and still other times if you wiggle the shift lever it go in. Anyone have this experience or can give suggestions?
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    At 60.000 miles I would carry on with dino, but I would change often,around every 3,000 miles.

    Cheers Pat.
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    If Convential Oil gets higher gas mileage, I thought this would be a benefit.
  • micpc1: The problem could be a faulty neutral safety switch. Neutral safety switches use electric contacts to sense what gear the gear shifter is placed in. The contacts can wear out over time since they rub against each other, but wiggling the selector helps make contact with a less worn piece of the contact patch.

    I've never had to replace one in a Subaru, but I have had one fail in a Toyota Camry. If I remember correctly, the part was several hundred dollars, but the installation time was short.
  • lspivalspiva Member Posts: 49
    Guys, thanks for your responds. Here is another question that bothers me. I have a Chase bank Subaru Back certificates that can be used for paying for the maintanence of the Subaru cars at participated Subaru dealerships. So if I ask my dealer to replace engine oil with a syntetic one, how will I be able to identify if the oil that dealer used was in fact a syntetic and not the conventional? The dealer that I am going is charging $33 for conventional oil change and $58 for syntetic. I just don't want to overpay $25.
    Thanks again. Leo
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    I buy my own synthetic and let the Subie dealer change it; he deducts the price of the oil from the oil change special they always run.

    Mike
  • subiemdsubiemd Member Posts: 1
    If anyone could give me some help with this problem it would be wonderful! I've been experiencing problems with my clutch and the dealer doesn't seem to know what to do about it. The car is fine for the first 20 minutes or so of driving but then the clutch starts to groan as I depress it and it stiffens up. It is a very audible sound that gets worse the longer you drive the car. So far in their attempts to solve this problem, the dealership has lubed the clutch cable, replaced the clutch cable and replaced a bushing. None of which has had the slightest effect on this problem.

    Furthermore, as the cold weather sets in again, I am starting to experience yet another problem that I had last winter but went away during the summer. When you are engaging first gear the clutch will often make a whining sound like something isn't engaging and you sort have to baby the car into gear. The dealership has adjusted the clutch several times but this hasn't done a darn thing either.

    I am reaching my limit. The car is less than two years old and was bought to replace my VW after I watched it get towed for the fourth time in one year (it was less than five years old). I bought the Subaru specifically so I wouldn't have any of these problems and I am feeling very let down and very frustrated. The guy at my dealership keeps telling I shouldn't worry because these are great cars - but that doesn't really solve my problem!

    Any ideas????
  • lspivalspiva Member Posts: 49
    I had the similar problem with my 97 Nissan Altima. The clutch pedal was groaning as you describe. The Nissan dealer replaced bushing and cables 3 times during 8 months interval. After I have called to Nissan customer center, dealer replaced the entire clutch and manual shifter. After which relieve had finally come. I would suggest to contact SOA and request that local Subaru representative had evaluated the problem that you are describing.
  • bravadajonbravadajon Member Posts: 60
    When the compressor cycles on my 03 LL Bean Wagon I hear a hissing sound in the passenger compartment.

    Is this normal?

    Thanks.
  • jessewajessewa Member Posts: 1
    My 98 Forester makes louder and louder noise recently (about half year ago). The sound seems coming from back and the pitch is related to the speed, it's louder around 30-40m/h, on freeways, since background noise is bigger, the sound is not clearly louder. Anyone can suggest what it wrong? Is it normal wear and tear? Shall I bring it to the dealer for checkup/repair? First time owner, please be patient. Thanks.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    the hissing sound from the A/C is normal as long as you hear it for a second, then it goes away. Mine always did that even when new.

    If the thing is just hissing and hissing like a snake, I would take that to the dealer to have it looked at!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I also had the neutral safety switch fail on my '90 Camry 4EAT (v6), but all I lost was the backup lights and the shift cluster display on the dash. The actual tranny performance was unaffected.

    And you are right - I think the quote for the switch was in excess of $300. I took it off myself (one connector, one screw - mounted to the shift lever arm on the transmission), used a dremel to cut thru the potting compound, and rebuilt the corroded internal contacts.

    Most likely the problem is in the internal valve body or shift linkage, as he described it will sometimes engage when fiddled with.

    Steve
  • mgkmgk Member Posts: 2
    The engine of my Subaru o/b ltd recently broke down. The rods started knocking. I was on a road trip (500 miles from home) and had to get my car towed a 100 miles to the nearest subie dlr and get onto a rental car. The car has 36.5K miles.

    I have been told by the dlr that the engine is covered unter power terrain warranty.

    Does any one know :-

    1. Will subaru will pay for the towing charges (300$)
    2. Will Subaru pay for the rental car cost
    3. Will Subaru get the car delivered from the dealership to my home (about 500 miles away)

    Never knew that a subie engine could break down in 36K. The car has been serviced and very recently had the 30K service. The servicing dlr had commented that the car was in gr8 condition.

    Thanks
  • micpc1micpc1 Member Posts: 2
    I have a 93 subaru legacy, 4dr sedan with auto tranny. miles =130k. The car runs fine in all aspects except for when you shift into reverse. Sometimes it goes into reverse just fine, other times it will not engage, and still other times it will engage if you wiggle the shift mechanism.
    Anyone have this experience or have suggestions?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For the clutch, call 800-SUBARU3 and ask them to look up your records. Ask for assistance from the regional tech, they can work with your dealer to solve that problem. No way is a "groaning" normal operation.

    Jesse: wheel bearings. I'd be willing to bet on it.

    mgk: I'd also call 800-SUBARU3 to see if they can reimburse you for the tow. I know they do for customers that have Subaru Gold, and you might want to ask about buying that now if they'll make it retroactive to cover that towing. It also covers a loaner.

    The loaner might be up to the dealership, but I'd certainly ask. I doubt they'll deliver, though.

    mike: I noticed you asked the same question in another topic, there were some suggestions there, check it out.

    -juice
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    Like a few others I have beeen experiencing clutch chatter the first few shifts when my 01 GT is cold. I am at 30k miles and just had the car in for service. At that time the dealer could not duplicate the problem as the car was not cold and had not sat all night. I am about to leave on a 6k+ road trip which will put me over 36k by the time I return. I have started a case with SOA regarding the clutch. They say the flywheel is covered under the 60k warranty but the clutch is not. So today I took the car back in to the dealer just to open a repair case with them. Interestingly the service manager told me the regional Subaru rep has told him that SOA will be issuing a service bulletin regarding the clutch chatter issue in the next month (I think someone here mentioned this)and that depending what the bulletin says "don't worry about the 36k warranty". And if I run past 36k by the time I return he inferred that SOA will likely handle the fix. I have had nothing but good experiences with them so I figure this should work out the same.

    bit
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It'll be interesting to read that TSB.

    -juice
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    Sorry, I reversed the discussion. What I meant to say was that synthetic will give 1--3 MORE miles per gallon.
  • kent68kent68 Member Posts: 6
    Hi, I'm relatively new to the Town Hall. I'm hoping that some of you can help me with a potential used car purchase.

    I'm looking at a 2002 base Outback w/ approx 9K miles and a 2001 Legacy L wagon w/ approx 19K miles, both are 5 speeds. The sellers (both are dealers) are asking $19K for the Outback (but I'm sure I can get it for less, since they've had it for a while) and $16K for the Legacy.

    Are there particular problems I should be looking for with either of these, or is there a reason why I should avoid either of them altogether?

    Also, if I bought the Legacy, I'd want to add the CD player and remote entry/alarm. Does anyone have experience installing either of them? How hard is it (I've installed aftermarket stereos before, but never an alarm system. I'd get the Subaru version, so I'd think that would make it easier)?

    Thanks for your help.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Both are CR "Good Bets" (reference: page 175, 2003 Buying Guide).

    I'd be curious as to why the Outback was sold so quickly. And $19k is close to the price for a new one. For that much, I'd buy new for about $20.5k, or even buy a new Legacy L Special Edition, which even has a moonroof for under $20 grand.

    Since both are 5 speeds, take a thorough test drive on a cold day. Try the clutch to see if it's smooth. Turn off the radio and listen for any strange driveline noises, i.e. bad differentials or wheel bearings.

    The good news is any flaws stand out like a sore thumb, so you'll likely notice them. A smooth running, quiet car is very likely a good buy.

    You can call 800-SUBARU3 and ask if recalls were completed. I'm not sure how much of the car's service history they'll share, but ask.

    Good luck and stick with us, we'll help you in case any problems do creep up in the future. Both are still under the B2B warranty, too.

    You can E-Bay a 6CD changer from a WRX for $250 or less. I bought two. Installation on a 2002 Legacy was not easy, but not hard either. If you end up doing this I'll share some tips later. I installed one on a 1998 Forester, too, and that was much easier. You can do a Legacy in under 2 hours. The WRX radio is plug-and-play, the harness fits perfectly. It's a double DIN unit and bolts right in, you just lose the storage pocket under the stock stereo.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I agree with juice that the prices the dealer is asking for a quite high considering that you can get a brand new Legacy for a similar price.

    I'd use Edmund's TMV tool and price out a 2003 Legacy for your area. If it's close, bring it with you and bargain with the dealer. Since they make way more profit on used cars, they should be willing to drop the prices to be competitive.

    As far as I know there aren't any major problems with the two vehicles. At one model year, I think 2002, the OB got bigger disc brakes. Subaru tends to upgrade features year over year so make sure you've captured that difference.

    Ken
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Yeah, I'd like to know what the "fix" is. Perhaps they finally found a material that won't chatter.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the 2002 Outback got the AWP standard, on a 2001 it was an option. That means it should have heated seats. Be sure to try them out.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    doubt it. I bet they spec a stiffer pressure plate and call it good.

    -Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Didn't they already do that with the non-WRX 5MT? I wonder if it is possible to derive a 5-speed version of their 6MT...

    Ken
  • mjmille7mjmille7 Member Posts: 10
    The AWP was not standard on the '02 Base. $500.00 add in my area. If the seats work well, it is definately worth it.
  • stevekstevek Member Posts: 362
    I also have the chatter on my '01 GT and form the first day I drove the car, was surprised how weak the clutch is in those cars. A small 4 cylinder engine with lots of torque and 4wd should have a much storenger clutch. So I am very carefull when cold in first gear (ususaly roll the car never a full stop if I can help it) and shift quick into other gears between 3-3.5K RPM. So far almost 60K miles and the clutch is stull fine along with the brakes.
    Wondering if I should open a case at the dealer just in case.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Colin: to change that, they have to remove and replace the entire clutch assembly, right?

    Steve: FWIW, it doesn't seem to affect durability, just the smoothness of operation.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe that was changed for '03, then.

    I think the '02 got the rear LSD standard, that was it. The AWP was still an option with the same price, but it no longer included the viscous rear limited slip differential because that became standard in 2002.

    OK, got it straight now.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    quote: A small 4 cylinder engine with lots of torque and 4wd should have a much stronger clutch.

    it should, I agree. but it can't, due to the traction AWD offers and the strength of the 5 speed gearbox. (read: lack thereof) something needs to be engineered to give, and it's the clutch. the only problem is balancing the line between a clutch that is stout enough to not chatter for normal users, but limp enough to lay down and die when someone tries a 4WD burnout or speed-shifting into 2nd gear...

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd like to see a more elegant solution for future models. Maybe that force-limiting valve that the WRX got for all Subaru clutches, along with a stiff pressure plate.

    In other words, go to the root of the problem - speed shifting and burn outs that eat trannies.

    Just seems like a more intelligent solution that doesn't make the masses pay for a few teens who take too many joy rides.

    -juice
  • lspivalspiva Member Posts: 49
    Guys. Have any of you ever replaced the standard light bulbs on a Forester with an Xtreme Blue from PIAA or equivalent from Sylvenia. I want to do that for the headlights and fog lights. Just not sure if I can do that alone or should I let dealer do that. By the way, have anybody had any comparission between stock headlights and Xtreme Blue (or Xtreme White). Thanks in advance. Leo
  • celica115celica115 Member Posts: 169
    The light bulbs are easy to replace. You can do it in 3 minutes.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    A torque COnverter! :) Welcome to the 21st century! If you want 1900s shifters, then live with the chatter! hee hee j/k but couldn't help myself..

    -mike
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    LSD was standard on 2001 models. I think it became standard in response to Consumer Reports review of the 2000MY Outback. They commented that the rear end was tricky and prone to fishtailing in bad weather cornering.
    Ralph
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    juice -- what's this force-limiting valve you're talking about?

    How about a system that ejects the driver from their seat when they try and do stupid things like 5000RPM clutch drops. ;-)

    mike -- I had a feeling we'd hear from you. :-)

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Leo: the headlights are H4 type. Pop the hood, then find the rubber grommet that seals the back of the headlight enclosure. You have to sort of "pinch" the grommet and pull it back, outward, to get it out. A pin secures the bulb in the grommet, that's easy 'cause you can see it.

    I tried Hella H4+30 bulbs, marketed as "Xenon" because they supposedly have a trace of Xenon gas in the filament. They also market them as being 30% brighter. While that was true, they also lasted less than a year. Both burned within weeks of each other. The stock bulbs last for 5-10 times as long.

    So I went back to stock. Not worth it if you keep having to change bulbs, or worse, get caught out on a road trip far from home with one burned out. 50% less light!

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like your suggestion better.

    Someone in another topic was claiming that 6000 WRX trannies had fried, which sounded like nonsense so I did some research. I found only a handful, almost all very heavily modified cars, too.

    Any how, I also found an article that claimed the 2003 clutch had some sort of force-limiting valve on it, so that the clutch would only absorb so much force even in high-rpm launches.

    Supposedly the 2004s will get an entirely new clutch.

    Maybe someone else knows more about this?

    I did find something interesting - every single one of the tranny failures I found was for a 2002, before the clutch valve. 2003s are newer of course, but I thought that was worth mentioning.

    -juice
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