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Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

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Comments

  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    Len, consider yourself very lucky to have gotten a new clutch! Every 3K miles when I go in for service I hope that I the dealer might be willing to fix my horrid clutch, but after 30K miles, I'm just living with it. It has good days and bad, but this summer has seen more bad days than good, which worries me somewhat.

    As an interesting side note, I got back from a 1000 mile drive Sunday night, parked the car for 10 minutes, got back in to drive to the store, and the clutch had the most bizarre feel to it that I've experienced. It did not even feel like the same car -- to the point of me stoping at the end of my street to look under the car for clutch fluid (?) or whatever all over the place. The clutch was incredibly light (I could push it with my finger) for about 90% of the travel, then it would catch RIGHT at the floor. I had to look to see that the pedal was even coming up after I released it because it was so light. I ended up driving it for another 30-40 minutes just to see if any other weirdness developed because I was amazed at the difference in the way the car drove -- actually, in this state, the clutch felt better (smoother, more predictable) than it ever did in the previous 30K miles. I have noticed in the past that extended high speed (90+ mph) highway driving affects the way the clutch behaves in town, but it was never this pronounced. By Tuesday, though, my clutch was back to its same old self; bucking at stopsigns, shuddering from a dead stop. Ugh.

    About the paper getting sucked into the air vents -- I had that happen last year, too. I took it to the dealer to find out why the airflow stopped when I pushed the "recirc" button. Turns out, when I switched the fan to "recirc" it sucked in a fist full of napkins from the glovebox. There must be some amazing suction in there, because there were a TON of napkins in the intake. There's nothing loose in the glovebox now!
  • ffsteveffsteve Member Posts: 243
    Smokeybear, thanks for the tip on sucking papers out of hte glovebox into the fan. I'll make sure to clean mine out tonight!

    Steve
  • smokeybaersmokeybaer Member Posts: 38
    To answer question about if I have the filters in the VDC. Yes, I do. Added it after I bought the car but it only filters the air being introduced from outside not the recirculated air from in the car.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Do they make any difference when following smelly cars, or are they only dust and pollen filters?

    -Dennis
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Dust and pollen only, I'm afraid. Still a good think though... :)
  • boba6boba6 Member Posts: 18
    Anybody have any recommendations for Subaru mechanics in the Atlanta/Decatur GA area? Just found out that my wonderfully convenient Conley Subaru dealership has been sold and is closing. Supposedly will re-open nearby (under new ownership, I guess), but that probably won't happen in time for the 3K service on my new Forester, which could be real soon depending on what I do over the 4th of July. Had really wanted to get dealer service early on, esp. as there's a problem with one of the storage compartments. But any recommendations would be appreciated.
    Bob A.
  • karinoskarinos Member Posts: 3
    Well, you all have been very helpful, and, if I knew anything about cars, I'd put all of this information together and do something with it! But I just drive, I don't tinker, so I'll ask one more question: What should we tell/ask the dealer as a suggestion as to what this might be? What should we have them check, specifically?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    in describing the situation. Driving conditions, weather, etc. The more "accurate" info you can give the dealer, the better.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They are pleated paper filters, but do a good job capturing dust and pollen, stuff like that.

    -juice
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I won't be posting for a bit as I'm headed on vacation tomorrow afternoon. I'll try to check out the chat tonight! See you there?

    Patti
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  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    FWIW - Subaru requires that all dealers us an on the car brake lathe for cutting rotors. They do not cut them if they are out of spec. The dealer is required to take measurements to make sure that they can be cut.

    The on the car lathe does an excellent job. It only removes a very small amount of metal, but the finish is like satin. It is a "true" cut rather than them being pulled off the vehicle.

    Brake pads are another "fine line" issue. A lot of manufacturers are trying to find the right solution. Since asbestos has been removed from pads, you have metal as a substitute. More metal, more noise and quicker wear on the rotor. Less metal, more frequent replacement. I believe that our current pads are good in comparison to some of what the others are using.

    It's really rare to hear that someone blames the customer for wear. The only times I've personally seen issues is with drivers that prefer driving with a foot on the brake and one on the gas or if the driver has his/her foot on the brake partially when driving. If your dealer is telling you that the wear is "your fault", ask why they are saying that. Test drive the car with them. If you are out of warranty and paying for the rotors to be cut, please be sure to ask them to use the on the car lathe.

    These are just my thoughts. If you have a problem, it's always a good idea to call us at 1-800-SUBARU3.

    Thanks,

    Patti
  • stevekstevek Member Posts: 362
    How long the clutch is under warranty, my 01 Legacy GT shudders sometimes (mostly winter mornings) otherwise it feels fine. I did notice when I had the car new that these clutches are not that strong and I have been driving it rather gently. I have 47K on the car, I never had a clutch fail before 100k miles on any of my vehicles (even the 2.8L V6 Jeep which was vastly underpowered and over tourqued).
    thanks
    Steve
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    I think it's 3 years or 36000 miles, which ever comes first.
  • teetime2teetime2 Member Posts: 2
    I have an almost new (8 months old) Forester L, which is really fun to drive, but I'm getting VERY POOR gas mileage on it (15 mpg!). I've had 4-cylinders car for the last 30 years, and have never had this problem before. Can anyone tell me if this is inherent in the new cars, or is it just a problem with Subarus? The explanation from the dealer's service dept. was to drive to LA and back several times to solve the problem! It's a real disappointment, and makes me wish I'd bought the Honda!
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    I picked up my car from Flemington Subaru last night. The paperwork shows that they replaced everything: pressure plate, disc, throwout bearing, pilot bearing and even the flywheel. The clutch feels great now; nice and light and smooth, with no chatter. You'd never know this was the same vehicle, based on clutch action alone. I was told that the clutch is covered under the Powertrain Warranty, so it's good for 5 years/60K miles.

    I also had them perform the ECM recall service and change the spark plugs. I remember reading here that the ECM needs to re-learn your driving style. The car seems a little sluggish since I picked it up. Does anyone know if that could be caused by the ECM reprogram, and if it will reset itself? Thanks in advance for any and all info.

    Len
  • joe_sinjoe_sin Member Posts: 32
    We're in (almost) the same boat. My Forester is also 8 months old, and I've been going back and forth with various dealers and SoA for the last 6 months. So far, the catalytic converter, front O2 sensor, and plugs have been replaced. My mileage is up to 20.7, 50/50 mixed highway/city driving (which is still lower than the 2001 Forester I used to get), and I'm still getting rotten egg smell. Do you get that?

    From various conversations I've had with Subaru, I get the impression that there may have been a problem with the catalytic converter on many Foresters delivered 8 months ago. When that was replaced, my mileage jumped up to 20.5 mpg.

    The dealer's advice is just goofy. So far, I've had dealers tell me that 13 mpg (!) is normal, that I'm using bad gas, and that the car takes 15K miles to "break in". Don't believe a word of it. Call Subaru and get a case going if you can't get the dealer to make it right. I have a variety of postings on the Forester forum and the Subaru General Maintenance and Repair II forum detailing the whole story if you're interested.

    My car goes back in on Tuesday for more diagnosis by an increasing number of people from SoA. 6 months, 8 trips in for servcice, 27 days without the car. I'll be posting on Tuesday with the latest outcome.
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I had the ECM done 2 weeks ago. I feel the car is running better now. No impact on mileage. A slight hesitation I had once in a while before is now gone. However, that doesn't seem to be the consensus here. Most say they see no difference. The dealer did not know if the reprogram actually reset the system so that it needed to be "re-taught". Perhaps they disconnected your battery when they did the clutch work and that reset the ECM.

    Greg
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    Don't forget....gentle, no full throttle driving for the first 500 miles (clutch break-in period), as the clutch fully seats properly.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    dunno about newer Subarus but both my 92 Legacys did indeed take up to 10K+ miles and then mileage got a lot better! But we are talking just under 20 improving to mid 20s. My 98 Legacy didn't have that problem IIRC. Too early to tell on my 02 WRX.
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Yep, I too think it's just an update to the ECM, though we haven't really gotten an official statement. My mileage in 2 tanks since the update hasn't changed. Which is good, since I thought our OB has been running quite well before the update. I'm averaging about 22mpg on mostly city mileage, with highway trips coming in at 26 or so. That remains consistent after the update, at least in my case.

    Wonder if they didn't gap the plugs right, or perhaps used the wrong plugs? I don't believe that pulling the negative battery cable is necessary for a spark plug change. But, that's IMHO.

    You could reset the ECM yourself. I believe you let the vehicle cool completely, pull the negative cable for 30 minutes, reconnect and idle the vehicle until warmed up. Or something to that note.

    -Brian
  • rexaroorexaroo Member Posts: 174
    Patti--thanks for the brake info. Hope you have a great vacation!

    teetime2--our 99 Forester has always gotten great mileage on hwy runs--28 to 29 mpg, but the mileage around town has always been a little less
    than the EPA says at 17-20 mpg. I think a lot depends on your driving habits. The Forester is fun to hot-rod around town when the opportunities permit, and this is going to lower mileage substantially if (like me) you are prone to bursts of quick acceleration. Also, the amount of time warming the car up and the amount of time you spend at red lights (obviously) makes a difference. And there's a slight chance you are getting watered down gas at the place where you are filling up. You might try filling up at a new BP-Amoco station (which I feel is very trustworthy for quality of their product) and see if this makes a difference. if not, then at least you've eliminated that possibility.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    watered-down gas?

    means what please?
  • stevekstevek Member Posts: 362
    I actually purchased the extended warranty for 100k, better check if the clutch is in it
  • rexaroorexaroo Member Posts: 174
    either unintentionally, or through some skullduggery on the part of the gas-station owner (to increase profits at the expense of the customer), the gas is contaminated with extra H20. Some older stations with old, corroded gas tanks can easily have gas quality compromised with moisture condensation and/or other crud mixed in that goes into your tank. This is why I think it's important to buy gas from a newer station (ie. with new, clean storage tanks) and one that has a trusted reputation (Amoco, Phillips, Exxon, etc.). "Bad" gas is probably more common than most of us realize and can cause everything from poor gas mileage, clogged fuel filters, and engine misfires.
  • teetime2teetime2 Member Posts: 2
    joe sin: I don't get the rotten egg smell - thank goodness! That would really upset me! Fortunately, everything else works fine.

    rexaroo: I do mostly town driving, and do sometimes accelerate too fast from the stop light. And I'm buying my gas most of the time from Chevron, which is supposed to be reputable. But I might try another brand and see if that helps.

    The explanation I got from the Subaru website was that the EPA numbers on the sticker are purely estimates (duh!), and shouldn't be taken at face value, and what you get is what you get! In other words, not a lot of help.
  • jregen7243jregen7243 Member Posts: 91
    15 mpg is definitely on the low end of the scale. Have you gone on a long highway trip and checked your mileage?? I'd be curious to see what that was. Even driving around town, it shouldn't be much less than 18mph or so.

    Jon
  • jregen7243jregen7243 Member Posts: 91
    I don't know why the alternator was causing this. However, when my cars did it (in the 80s)...it wouldn't even crank. I would turn the key and nothing would happen (car did have power though). After sitting for a few hours and cooling off, car would start again. After they replaced the alternator, problem went away.

    Jon
  • jregen7243jregen7243 Member Posts: 91
    Dennis,
    Just curious as to what Flemington gave you as a loaner. When I took my OB in for 30k service to Somerset, they gave me a 91 Legacy L with 140K miles as the loaner.

    Jon
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Just filled up today and got a womping 24 mpg on my lead footed 80% city driving mileage. That's actually higher than normal for my typical city driving (usally get 22mpg). So, again, I have to say that the ECM update hasn't changed things, at least not for the bad.

    Did notice a couple *cough* pings *cough* during some driving the other day. The ping was not persistent, only pinged maybe a couple pings (ping ping ping) during an accelerator angle change (read that as accelerating in a corner). Couldn't get it to do it again at that time, but heard it on another day in probably a similar situation. Threw a bottle of Techron in just for giggles.

    Other than that, the engine seems to be itself still. Loves to rev to 5-6k just fine when prompted.

    -Brian
  • joe_sinjoe_sin Member Posts: 32
    The idea of bad gas is nice, but it doesn't gel in the long run. If you buy your gas at the same place every time you get fuel, it might make sense. If you had trouble with the car for 1 tank of gas, it might make sense. It doesn't make sense to blame 15 mpg on an enivironmental factor after 8 months of driving. Who buys gas at the same place every time? Are all the gas stations where you live old and contaminated, or nefariously adding water? I've been back and forth with the nice folks at the EPA about my own situation, and I'm pretty convinced that whatever might be wrong with the car, it's not the gas.

    The sticker on the car gives a broad range of EPA mpg numbers, of which the 22/27 number is just an average. Even so, 15 mpg is out of range. I had a Subaru customer service rep tell me flat out on the phone that such poor mileage indicated a problem with the car.

    The reps I was chatting with the other day started laughing when I repeated one dealer's advice that it would take 15K miles for my car to break in. I'm 1500 away from 10K miles now. If my mileage suddenly jumps, I'll eat crow and be glad to do it. By the way, the same dealer told me I should avoid Amoco, Mobil, and BP fuel. Since Exxon and Mobil are the same, I guess I can't use that either. Pretty soon, I'll have to start drilling and make it myself.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    the engine would run like hell with water in the gas--it would be barely driveable.

    I thought maybe you meant by "watered down" the idea of selling 87 gas as if it were 91.
  • rexaroorexaroo Member Posts: 174
    Avoid Amoco? C'mon, they really told you that? I'd find another dealer if that's the case. It's the highest rated gasoline of the buying public, and my two Subies have always run like Swiss watches on it. The one time I had an engine misfire was when I tried a tank of a local brand. I think the high standards Amoco requires its station owners to uphold is probably the best reason to use it, along with the quality of their products. If you'll recall, I said there was a "slight chance" of contaminated gas--that it was something to rule out if you are getting poor mileage. Of course, it could be an engine problem too, but if the dealer says no, you have to look at other factors.

    Two other things to consider for poor mpg are chronically under-inflated or leaky tires, and again, the "slight" chance that gas is being siphoned off--not likely, but if you live in the inner city or park on the street overnight, it's cheap insurance to get a locking gas cap for the Forester.

    Regarding the engine break-in, it should be virtually complete after no more than 3000 mi. The close tolerances they build engines to these days means the days of the 10,000 mi. break-in are long gone. I've even heard estimates that most of the break-in occurs within the first 300 mi. after you drive off the lot, so I'd agree your problem is not due to lack of break-in time.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    In addition to underinflated tires, poor wheel alignment on all four wheels can hurt mileage as well. People generally underestimated the effect of inflation pressures and alignment on fuel mileage, but it can be considerable.

    Let me think here of significant factors that hurt fuel mileage:

    1. Underinflated tires
    2. Poor wheel alignment
    3. Frequent use of A/C (a gas gobbler especially in city driving)
    4. Improper shifting (lugging the engine in a higher than needed gear)
    5. Trying to estimate fuel mileage over too short a period of time. If you miscalculate a fill-up of 15 gallons by just one gallon, that's like a 7 or 8% error right there.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    Clutch release
    Clutch fork boot and return spring
    Clutch cable
    Clutch operating
    cyllnder
    Clutch hydraulic line
    and gasket
    Clutch master cyllnder
    and connecting link
    clutch master Cylinder piston and
    piston seal
    clutch
    master cylinder push rod
    Clutch damper assembly and bracket
    Clutch pedal, washerand bushing
    Clutch pedal lever and
    return spring differential
    dip stick

    so a lot of stuff except "wear" parts
  • goldencouple1goldencouple1 Member Posts: 209
    I just took a 600 mile trip. Average MPG was about 28 mpg, city and highway. The best mileage on the trip was 30.3 MPG (almost exclusively highway @ 65 mph on cruise control). There was a city and highway combined segment that was 25+ MPG. And there was a pure highway segment that clocked out at 26+ mpg, driving @ 75 mph on cruise control. The air conditioner was on constantly. Gas octane varied between 86 to 88 (I get 87 where available: here in NM some places only have 86 as the "regular unleaded" octane). Tire inflated to about 31 psi cold. Ambient temperatures during driving hours were between 90 and 98 degrees F. No wind to speak of. Altitude was between 3500 and 5000 feet above sea-level. The terrain was hilly many portions of the highway segments. I have a rather light foot on acceleration; my wife, who drove about a third of the time, has a heavy foot.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    a/c on the highway isn't so bad because with the windows closed you can sometimes cut aero drag quite a bit if you are in the 75 mph range.

    Thanks for the input. That should give him a benchmark of sorts. 31 psi sounds about right and your numbers sound very plausible.
  • joe_sinjoe_sin Member Posts: 32
    Third tank of gas since SoA's last repair attempt. 100 miles on the highway with no A/C. 50 miles city driving with no A/C. 70 miles city driving with the A/C. 19.5 miles per gallon. Total average over three tanks of gas, 20.3. And for the other two tanks, I didn't use the A/C at all.

    I used to get 24+ as an average with my 2001 Forester.
  • rexaroorexaroo Member Posts: 174
    if your results are within normal limits is to take the car 100% on the highway at the same speeds as goldencouple1 did theirs (with tires inflated to 31psi) and compare what mpg you get. Mixing city and highway driving isn't going to work because there are too many variables at work: how many stop lights did you hit and how much time did you spend idling? How fast did you take off from stop lights-- all these things are going to cause your mileage to vary. A 100% highway run at a steady speed and then fill up the tank is the only way you will know for sure, IMHO.
  • rexaroorexaroo Member Posts: 174
    All of us get gas that's a little water-contaminated in the winter-time whenever our gas tanks are almost empty. Moisture condenses on the inside of the tank and settles into the gas, which is why it's good to keep your tank full in cold weather.
    Also, say a gas-station owner taking on a shipment of 5000 gallons adds only 3% water (150 gallons) to the supply. I seriously doubt his customers filling their tanks there would notice any difference in terms of driveability, but if they stopped to figure their mileage, they would probably notice a slight decrease in mpg. I'm not saying this happens very often and stations do under-go periodic inspection, but it has been known to happen in the past.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, 3% water in a 20 gallon tank would be 2 full quarts + of water. I think if you poured that in your tank your engine wouldn't like it one bit.

    A tiny bit of water might even make an engine run better, if it were injected in a vapor.
  • rexaroorexaroo Member Posts: 174
    Bet it would still run although you might notice a loss of power and some hesitation. We are still talking about a mixture that's 97% gasoline.
    I'm going to ask around and see if anyone has a definitive answer on this for us.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Trust me on this one, the car would barely run with two quarts of water in the gas, because the water would not blend uniformly, as might milk in coffee. The water will clump into large globules so when the engine eventually eats it, it won't like it. Also a large dose of water might swell up the fuel filter and clog it completely.
  • rexaroorexaroo Member Posts: 174
    it turns out you are right about water not being soluble in gasoline. However, if water does get into your gas tank, the car might still run OK for a while because the water is heavier than the gas and immediately sinks to the bottom of the tank. In doing so, the water just sits there and doesn't evaporate unless the gas gets so low that the water is drawn into the fuel system where it can cause a lot of damage.
    So it looks like we're both correct in our statements. The car can run OK with water in the tank (as long as the water isn't being drawn into the fuel system), but once the water does finally hit the fuel filter and/or injectors, it's good-night-Irene and serious problems can occur.
    Since most cars have a 2-gallon reserve of fuel when the gas gauge reads empty, it's possible to drive around with as much as a gallon or so of water in your tank and never suffer the potentially serious consequences (as long as you always remember to fill up in time :-)
  • danyidanyi Member Posts: 2
    I have a 97 Impreza outback and have been having a problem with smelling exhaust in the cabin. I took it to the dealership and they replaced the pollution hose, but I still have the problem. Anyone else run into this?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep, that could be true, but what usually happens is that as the car bounces around the water gets agitated and does in fact get sucked up into the fuel line. But water does tend to sink to the bottom, that's right, which is why you do a test drain on small planes before you take off. Once the plane is in the air, the water could get sucked into the fuel supply, which has more drastic consequences than with a car of course.

    So really, one you are underway, even a small amount of water can interfere, but if you are just sitting there idling, maybe not. On a moving car, two quarts of water will definitely bring it to a halt in a few miles at most.
  • joe_sinjoe_sin Member Posts: 32
    ...for the persistent rotten egg odor, which is caused by a very narrow set of conditions. Contaminated catalytic converter, or an excessively rich fuel mixture. Since the cat was replaced 2000 miles ago, that narrows the possibilities to one. Also, I got 24+ out of my 2001 Forester (destroyed on 9/11). My driving habits haven't changed, and I still live in the same place and drive to the same places. This car gives off a bad smell and gets nearly 20% less mpg. Those two together with the known performance of an identical vehicle under the same conditions I think bears me out.

    The smell today, during a mere 60 miles of driving, was choking. SoA is supposed to see the car again on Tuesday. I have high hopes...
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    What do you mean by smelling exhaust? Most '97 vehicles properly tuned would hardly put a smell into the air. Are you talking about a rotten egg smell that's quite a bit stronger than exhaust?

    Regardless, when do you smell it?

    IdahoDoug
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hmmm...I wonder if the fuel enrichment isn't shutting down as the temperature reaches normal.
  • hciaffahciaffa Member Posts: 454
    We Have a 99 Forester L Auto tranny, with almost 30,000 miles on it (it should be broken in by now)and we get about 15-16 in city and about 19-20 on the highway. I have gone over this with our dealer and back in 99 went over this with a SOA rep. He told us that we live in New England so its hilly and the mileage will be poor and he said to "live with it". Dealer said he can do nothing because no info from SOA. We are careful drivers and I maintain the Forester well such as air pressure and alignment even switched to Mobil 1 in the tranny , oil and diffs. We don't do jack rabbit starts. I even did a gas mileage log for SOA for about 6 months and I used pretty much the same name brand gas and the mileage was still poor but the response was that it must be us. We even drove one day on the highway on a trip to Vermont up I91 doing 55 mph to see if it got better and the average was still 20-20.5 mpg. when we first bought the Forester the mileage was much better about 21 city and 24 highway but after 2weeks of owning it the tranny blew and instead of a new one they re built it. Much to my arguing, and the mileage has been poor ever since. When I brought this up with the service manager that maybe having the tranny re built is creating the problem he sad I had no confidence in the service that they offered. Sad to say we had just finished having our daughter finish collage and paid off their loans and we decided to buy a new car and settled on the Forester for my wife to use. Its pretty sad when you invest the money into something like this and have blame but back on our shoulders. This car has had other problems as well including the notorious brake squeel. Thats another story. Any way we have no confidence in this vehicle and its pretty bad when my Ranger 4x4 gets better gas mileage than the Forester. Buy another Subaru, pretty hard to do/ Recommend one to a friend I don't think so.
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