Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

paisan · December 2002

My guess is that the sidewall has a lot to do with that. I'm finding these to handle better than my AVS Intermediates, even though those were summer tires. Also rim width might be effecting it as well.

I went from 225-50-16 in a symetric, non-directional tread to 245-45-16 in an asymetric, direction tread. We'll see how it handles @ VIR in Feb. though.

-mike

nygreg · December 2002

Cross post with OB Probs board, but since your discussing it. My OBs left head gasket needs replacing at 33K miles. Dealer said they have seen several of these now on 00 models - left side only. Interesting.

Greg

locke2c · December 2002

you're going to run SP5000s on VIR?

watch that you don't blister them.

-Colin

kens · December 2002

Ed: So, what do the SP5000s do for the Forester in terms of handling vis-a-vis the Geolandars? I'm pretty sure I'll be getting some SP5000s sometime in January.

mike: Can you tell the difference between the symmetric and asymmetric tread in day-to-day driving?

Ken

vince14 · January 2003

I posted this message at OB problems and solutions also.

Happy new year to all. I haven't posted in quite a while, but have 84k on my OB and it has been great 'til last night. Please forgive the length, want to give as much background as possible.

Few weeks ago, since I felt the tranny was sluggish, I had fluid changed, on tranny and differentials,at local Lee Myles.

I noticed a distinct burning smell, that came and went, smell in car is similar to latex balloons.

Was supposed to bring it back to Lee Myles, but didn't have the chance, they seemed to think it was strange since they only changed the fluids.

I did just have the car inspected two days ago.

Well, last night, leaving a friend's house, backing out of their driveway, I started pushing into some snow so I pulled up and starting backing out straighter. I was confronted with a horrible, high pitched, metal against metal, grinding sound.
Tranny shifted ok, and I drove it home like that, (about two miles) but can't imagine what it is!
I looked under the car and see nothing wedged, I checked the tranny fluid, and there is nothing obvious to me (virtually car illiterate)
Sound only occurs with movement,I backed it out of garage a little, was ok in reverse but grotesque in drive.
So, tomorrow, I'll get it towed, but to where?
my regular mechanic or to the tranny place?
any ideas or help would be appreciated!

trek2002 · January 2003

Did FWD only engagement as per your instructions.
The whistle is still there. The whistle starts around 65ish and stops around 79ish. Loudest at about 69-72 as long as the accelerator is depressed. No accelerator pressed no noise. Any suggestion how I should discuss this with the service department. I've an appt on Jan 9th. The pinion bearing and gear ring has been replaced and it only made the characteristic of the whistle change to different speeds/sound levels.

Would a quality fluid change possibly help?

vince14 · January 2003

jfi responded to my other posting:

Could it be brake pads worn to the warning indicators?

thanks jfi,
You were close. Brakes were recently replaced, I'm pretty fanatical about maintenance since I depend so much on the car. Anyway, my brother in law listened to the sound, noticed it was from the left front and guess the problem before he got under the car. Guess the plate outside the rotor got bent in a spot, even had a small rock wedged in it. He bent it out with a screwdriver and the car is fine. Man, the money you can save when you have a clue. Like I said, I've never run pads that low, so I've never heard such horrible scraping sounds before. Though I spent most of my time looking under the rear tires, I probably would not have noticed the problem looking at the front.
still have that burning smell, though.
thanks again, Vince

fibber2 · January 2003

Ouch.... Head gasket? I don't want to hear this...

Steve

paisan · January 2003

colin: You think the SP5000s will be worse off than my AVS Intermediates? I may get an extra set of rims in which case I might spring for my summer tires early, thinking of Toyo Proxie RA1s for summer tires.

Ken: Not sure since the SP5000s in that size are Asymetrical. I did tell the difference between them being on "correctly" and being on backward!

-mike

lark6 · January 2003

Ken: Too soon to tell on the SP5000 handling as the weather's been pretty nasty here and I just haven't spent much time behind the wheel, much less doing any spirited driving. In the size I/we use (215/60-16) the tread is symmetrical, whereas paisan's are asymmetrical. I do have to give a nod to Colin and say that I wouldn't use these as a track tire, but that's based on the assumption that it'd be the Forester I'd be tracking. (Now wouldn't it be a hoot to see a Forester at a track day?)

Give me a week or so to adjust pressures and hopefully get some dry weather and I'll give you a full report.

Happy New Year!

Ed

nygreg · January 2003

yes, I am very disappointed. Dealer said they have seen several of these now. All on the left side. We started discussing the possibilities of why only the left side. Anyway, considering the work they are doing under warranty, for another $100 or so I get the diffys, tranny, and coolant changed, new plugs,and an oil change (I dropped off the Mobil 1 for them to use). Decided to stay with standard fluids for the rest. Trying to get them to replace the pads with the new rotors under warranty as a nice gesture.

Greg

locke2c · January 2003

paisan--

regardless of their W speed rating (all but 3 sizes), the SP5000 is still an all-season. the tread compound and pattern are not going to survive well on a track.

the only thing I like about my AVS Intermediates is the dry tarmac performance, so if I were you I'd certainly use those.

-Colin

paisan · January 2003

Seeing as I only had 3 of them left the AVS Intermediates are out of the question. I'll run the SP5000s if I don't get the RA1s by then.

-mike

honaru · January 2003

I'm new to the board and to my '98 Subaru Outback and plan on changing the AT fluid and front / rear diffy's to synthetic. If I'm reading the manual correctly, it calls for 85W for the differential gear oil. Any harm in using 75W90?

Thanks.

jfl · January 2003

I would think 75W90 would be fine. That's what's specified for MY2000 and beyond. I don't know what was specified for 1999 though.

In any case, I'm sure a GL-5 with friction modifiers would be better for the diffy. I'm using Redline in mine.

Jim

rangner · January 2003

I just purchased a '00 OB from a private owner about 2 weeks ago. I have also noticed a burning/sulfur smell coming from the engine especially when I accelerate up a hill. I will probably have the dealer check it out soon. Think it might be the catalytic converter?

rangner · January 2003

I also hear a clicking nolise when turning hard.
Any ideas?

lucien2 · January 2003

Go the OB back with a new front seal, no charge. They said the timing belt was in great shape and left it alone. Oh well.

After 2 weeks of paralysing indecision, I went with SP5000s for the GT. I just felt that spending 3 months on 15" rims would be a drag, and although our weather here isn't terribly variable, I still wouldn't want to get caught off guard here or say on a road trip. Plus it may be useful to have some nominal mud ability...who knows?

But.....they are a compromise. I am VERY used to the Zeus like grip of the S-03. The SP5000 is very good, like maybe Mercury or one of the other lesser gods, but Zeus it ain't. Kirsten says good, now I'll slow down maybe....heh heh...hermmm...doh. I mounted 'em to the RS rims, and I will use the GT rims for auto-x and track days (Falken Azenis 205/55/16, 50% tread left).

lark6 · January 2003

"like maybe Mercury or one of the other lesser gods..." Heh. I'll be interested to compare our SP5000 experiences in parallel since I've had mine only less than a week, albeit on the taller, squarer Subie.

Ed

kens · January 2003

Loosh,

Glad to know the seal was replaced under warranty.

I think you made the right choice by going with the SP5000s. It's going to meet the majority of your driving needs/style. Mercury isn't so bad -- he's one quick dude.

Ken

lucien2 · January 2003

They did very well in the rain today, and I also bumped up the pressure to 36 front and 34 rear (OEM is 32/30). That has improved turn-in quite a bit without any loss of comfort or quiet. The tires are rated at 51psi max. Not that I would ever consider going that high.

caskier · January 2003

Hi All,

I have a 2001 OB, 4 cyl, 5 sp. I've noticed for a long time that the clutch chatters in the mornings for about the 1st 10 minutes of driving. On a recent road trip, we started to notice the smell of a burning clutch - even after long stretches of road with no shifting, particularly on hills.

I took the car into the dealership yesterday. The service rep said that the chattering clutch was normal - it's a defect in the material they use for the clutch. There may eventually be a service bulletin/fix for it. But he said they would look at the "burning" issue.

Sure enough, we when came back he said we need a new clutch - the existing one is burnt - and they would replace it under warranty as a one time good will gesture. The car has 22k miles on it.

Now, several things don't make sense to me. 1)How could I burn out a clutch in 22k? I've never burned a clutch in 3 cars I've owned and I drive this car very conservatively. And the burning smell we noticed was usually after highway driving. 2) They're going to replace it under warranty - as a good will gesture? I don't think it's good will. They already said there's a known flaw in the clutch material. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but could this burning clutch be another known flaw or an artifact of this material?

Hope someone has some similar experience or input.

Thanks,
CA

lemonrider · January 2003

My 00 Legacy GT has suffered from a shuddering since about 6k miles. I don't know if that is the same as the chattering you were experiencing.

There are quite a few who have had problems with their clutches.

Supposedly SOA has a fix for the shuddering, although when I called them to get some details they denied any knowledge.

As a good will gesture (and because they didn't have any better ideas) SOA replaced the tires on my Legacy early around 6k miles in an attempt to cure the shimmy it was experiencing. It didn't work. I didn't consider it a gesture, there's a defect in the vehicle, they should fix it.

idahodoug · January 2003

Which gears were replaced - front or rear differential pinion gears?

Basically, what you've done is isolate the noise to the drive train from the transmission forward. This leaves out the rear diff, rear driveshaft, rear CV joints/axles and rear wheel bearings. My instinct tells me it also is not the front wheel bearings, front CV joints/axles. This leaves only the tranny, and the front differential (my favorite culprit).

I'm guessing they changed the rear pinion gears as these are simple. The front diff would require actual work and actual skill.

Whatever you do, don't tell them you've used the FWD function. They'll surely tell you that the warranty has therefore expired, the sun will not come up tomorrow and that cats and dogs will now sleep together. It is going to be a challenge for you to use the information you now have without spilling the beans. Maybe tell them your cousin from Chicago is a former Subaru Master Tech and was in town for the holidays, took your car for a spin and says "tranny or front diff".

One thing I'd do is to check the fluid level in the front diff and tranny (both have a dipstick so it's simple). If you're real ambitious, drain a couple teaspoons of each fluid into a clean glass and head to your nearest Caterpillar dealer. They will have a way of sending these samples off to an analysis place to check for the presence of metal and bearing particles so you'll know if something's failed. This will also provide documentation for you. It will cost you $30 or so, but it's money well spent and these big rigs are routinely tested so the data's very, very reliable. Expect an incredibly tight front diff drain and wipe all contaminants away from the drain plug so they don't end up in the glass container. Just pull the plug out partway until it runs in a bit and push it right back in to get your sample.

For my money, the problem's in either the front diff or the tranny. More specifically, it sounds like incorrect pinion gear lash setup (the adjustment for how the gears mesh). Let us know what happens.

IdahoDoug

megawatt1 · January 2003

Hi, with so many forums, I'm not sure the best place to ask for suggestions on tire replacement. I have a '00 Outback Wagon with 40k miles. Tires show about 5/32 tread depth left, but the car handles poorly in snow and hydroplanes awfully.
I am looking for a good all weather tire, that will have excellent wet weather traction. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Ralph

cptplt · January 2003

are you running stock 205/55-16 or larger??

lucien2 · January 2003

nope, 205/55/16.

Mega- As we've been discussing, the Dunlop SP5000 is a nice choice for performance all season. I put a set on our '99 Outback last month, and just put a Z-rated set on my GT this week.

jfl · January 2003

Loosh, what do you think of the Dunlop Sport A2 for daily street driving (w/ little or no snow)?

Jim

kens · January 2003

Jim,

I put the Sport A2s on my wife's Jetta. I think they're great tires for the price. They get very high ratings on Tire Rack.

Ken

nygreg · January 2003

Jim - Just like Ken, I have Sport A2s on my 01 OB. Overall, I am very pleased with the tires and they seem to be wearing well. In CR, they rate them highly for snow traction for an all season tire. My experience in snow is a little different. They seem to do well going straight forward. However, in a snowy turn and stopping they loose it easily and I find I need to power out of the turn using the Subaru AWD. When Consumers did their test, they tested how fast they can accelerate going forward only. They did not test turning or braking.

Greg

jfl · January 2003

Thanks Greg & Ken. I currently have RE92's (WRX rim/wheel purchase) with ~20k miles on them. Just planning ahead 12-18 months.

At least CR uses a uniform standard. Opinions on Tire Rack are often someone comparing their newly purchased tire to how they thought the old tire handled when it was new and usually only the tire they chose. They rarely get a chance to compare several different tires.

Jim

bluesubie · January 2003

Last night, we returned from a weekend trip to Pittsburgh ( gone for ~36 hours).

The WRX had been sitting for a couple of days (actually I just moved it Saturday morning before we left) and was covered in two inches of snow.

I cleaned off the snow and went to start it. It did my usual routine (wait a few secs for the fuel pump, no accessories on) and it would turn over, but not start. I tried a few more times and the same thing happened.
I was able to jump start it using my wife's car. No interior lights appeared to be left on and everything appeared normal.
I noticed the exhaust smelled a little odd. Almost acetone-like.

The car started fine this morning.

Is this just one of those fluke things, or should I take it to the dealer? Under 6,000 miles on the car. Always use Sunoco 93. Thought it was an electrical problem since I needed a jump start, but the funny smelling fuel puzzled me. Temps right around freezing for the weekend.

Sorry for the length, just trying to be descriptive. :-)

-Dennis

schiza · January 2003

I'm experiencing a gas fume smell in my WRX when I start the car. It only happens occasionally when it is cold out. The smell goes away after some time. I had the dealership take a look at it and they told me they couldn't find any leaks. They said the smell is normal particularly when temp get below freezing. Has anyone else experienced this?

stevek · January 2003

I put Dunlop Winter Sport M2 on my GT (just for the winter) and had a very pleasant surprise. They handle better than the original Potenzas.
Just an FYI

kens · January 2003

Yes, the ratings on Tire Rack need to be taken with a grain of salt. If you read through the comments, most of them are comparing old worn tires to new ones. I typically look more at the relative ranking of the tire compared to others in its class as well as the number of miles driven.

The funny smell might be due to oxygenates in the gas. In the winter, I sometimes get a rotten egg smell depending on the brand. Try a different brand and see if it goes away.

Ken

burrard · January 2003

My first post. I am considering purchasing a Subaru - likely a Legacy wagon or Impreza wagon. New is likely not an option but I would like something a year or two old.

Would you recommend purchasing a Subaru? What is your opinion of reliability/problems?

thanks

hsub · January 2003

I'm looking for 2000 OB all season replacement tires, with very good winter/snow performance.

Consumer Reports gives Goodrich Control T/A65 pretty good scores - especially for snow, which is very important for me. However, they don't come in 225/60R16.

The Control T/A 80 do come in that size, but they are T speed rated not H as the original Firestone Wilderness. I've read that one should replace OM tires with at the same or higher speed rating. True of false? Of course no one runs at H max speeds (130 mph).

Most 2000 OB owners should be in tire replacement mode by now. What do you think & what tire selections have you made?

Thanks.

kens · January 2003

You may want to consider getting separate winter tires if snow traction is very important to you. All-season tires will only provide mediocre traction at best, and only while they are new.

Nokian does make one all-season tire that is supposed to have features from their winter tires. I believe the tire model is the HRW, but it is quite pricey and hard to find.

As for the speed rating, choose the rating based on the sidewall stiffness you require, not the maximum speed you intend to drive. The higher the speed rating, the stiffer the sidewall of the tire and the better cornering performace it will provide. Also, higher rated tires tend to have higher maximum load ratings as well. A T-rated tire will have greater body roll on turns compared to an H-rated tire.

Ken

fibber2 · January 2003

Ken summed up the speed rating issue quite well. According to Consumer Reports, new Govt tire performance requirements for stability, blowout protection, etc., would probably make the "H" rated tire the new minimum standard. As a class, H tires do everything better than comparible Q models in most of Consumers tire testing.

Subaru felt compelled to equip the OBW with H rated tires, even though it cost them more than a comparible T or Q, for a reason. The H tire sharpens the handling, provides more margin in the event of underinflation, etc. The downside is a slightly harsher ride. I would hesitate going with anything less. In fact, I recently upped from the stock Q to H on our Honda Odyssey. And while I am not a fan of liability lawyers, they would probably eat you for lunch if you ever got into a bad situation with underspec sneakers.

Steve

idahodoug · January 2003

Sounds like classic accumulation of water in the fuel line - condensation happens naturally from temperature fluctuation. I'd suggest you put a can of HEET in it from any auto parts store. It will mix with the water and cause it to be burned - water and fuel do not mix.

IdahoDoug

bluesubie · January 2003

Is that possible even if the car is sitting for two days? There was snow around the hood scoop so I guess water could've gotten in somewhere.
There's currently half a tank of gas in there.

-Dennis

hammersley · January 2003

Dennis: Condensation could have formed on the inside of the tank, above the fuel level, especially sitting still for a couple days. Drains down the interior sides of tank, mixes with/sinks below fuel in tank (water sinks, gas floats), gets sucked up by the pickup tube into fuel lines/rails, and voila, no start.
Good reason to keep the tank topped off if it's going to sit a few days. The HEET is a good tool as well.

Cheers!
Paul

idahodoug · January 2003

Dennis,

The condensation happens over time and accumulates in the bottom of the tank or fuel line low spot when the vehicle sits overnight or longer. If overnight temps are freezing, it will form a small ice plug or a partial blockage that will register on your engine's CPU as a problem that will create a no-start. Eventually, with enough starting attempts it may clear enough to get the car going, then subsequent driving warms the ice to water again. Try the HEET as this is a classic symptom. Keeping your tank full is also a wise preventative action if it sits. Most vehicles have a bit of water in their tanks at all times - the HEET every Spring and Fall is a great idea.

IdahoDoug

nippononly · January 2003

They are some of the best out there, especially Legacy and Impreza wagons!

crashton6 · January 2003

I think the reason that your exhaust smelled odd was because when you tried to start your car & it didn't fire there was a bit of fuel left in the cylinders. Sort of flooded. When it did start it was rich for a bit until the excess fuel was burned. I have a friend that has had the same no start on his WRX that you describe. He can't figure it out since it has only happened once. In cold weather it's best to keep ones fuel tank topped off. But I doubt that had anything to do with your no start.

Chuck

originalbitman · January 2003

36k trouble free miles in my 01 Legacy GT wagon. Love it.

bit

royallen · January 2003

There is probably an advantage to using ISO-HEET (or other isopropyl alcohol) instead of HEET or other methanol. Methanol will combine with water and prevent gasoline freezing but it does not dissolve in fuel which isopropyl + water will so one does not have a pool of water/alcohol in the bottom of the tank that can cause corrosion. As Paul stated, water in gas is due to condensation from moisture in the air which replaces gas as it is used. Unless one fills the tank and does no driving, water vapor will be a minor contaminant in gas that needs to be purged periodically.

paisan · January 2003

Just did a 1300 mile road trip with 300+ miles of snow (6"+ at times) slush, ice, sleet, you name it. The SP5000s on the SVX totally rocked. Not as good as snows but handled very well. Also did about 300 miles of dry 90-140mph travel, they handled well in those situations as well.

-mike

fibber2 · January 2003

Follow Roy's suggestion - Methanol (methyl alcohol) is tough on seals and may promote corrosion. Isopropyl alcohol is about 2-3x more expensive but is the recommended additive for modern cars.

Steve

bluesubie · January 2003

I'll check out some ISO-HEET and be sure the tank is full before I let it sit for a couple of days.

-Dennis

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