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Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

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Comments

  • subi4obssubi4obs Member Posts: 32
    Cost me $559-- after 10% discount-- and the engine pings or knocks much, much more than it ever did before. Driven the car at least 100 miles since then and hasn't improved.

    Also have a new squish sound from some part of the suspension.

    I'll be checking the car over myself when I get time but right now I'm not happy with the service and cost. I expected a relatively ping-free car (if such a thing exists) after it spent all day in the shop.

    AT was flushed, brakes bled, injectors cleaned, motor oil is synthetic, plugs changed, fuel and air filters changed, coolant flushed.

    Parts cost $221, so it was the labor which made the price really high. I'd have done most things myself but I wanted the car "tuned-up" all at once for the sake of warranty, if nothing else.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    so I've been dealing with a noise in the back of the 02 WRX and a strut had to be changed which helped but there still was a noise , though much less prominent after the strut change, so I brought it back to the dealer and while driving around with the tech we noticed a front noise and it was a very loose ball joint up front. They wouldn't let me out till it was fixed. Never had a ball joint go on any car before , its ony got 33K, is this unusual? And no I don't race the thing or do anything crazy, just drive it a little, how shall we say, the way it was designed to be driven.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    No offense but how much do you think a 30k should cost?

    They should have flushed the brakes instead of bled them though.

    Doing the plugs isn't a simple or quick task which probably is what drove the cost up, you have to remove the battery, air box etc, takes probably 1.5hrs. Coolane flush and fill is another 1hr or so (with testing to make sure there is no air-bubbles) so you are looking at about 3hrs labor at a min.

    Why do you think that the pinging would be fixed? If you have pinging it's probably due to bad gas or something other than the items that would be done in a 30k service.

    -mike
  • subi4obssubi4obs Member Posts: 32
    No offense taken. ;)

    They gave me a price of $450 (after 10% off) before work began. There was going to be a slight increase due to the synthetic motor oil but nothing was said of it going higher.

    There wasn't any sort of brake bleed/flush listed on their normal 30K routine, so I had them add it (replace fluid anyway), which made me wonder about their service for Subaru's. The service manager wrote it onto the paper he gave me and I asked once again if that $499 shown on it was still what the cost would be, he said yes no problem about that.

    Nothing about wheel bearings on that either, but then that's only an inspection at 60K miles anyhow so I knew it wasn't a part of this, but I told them about a sound I heard recently with the engine off, in neutral, while moving my car back under my carport. He thought it could be rust on the rotors but I tried to explain that I wasn't using the brakes at all when I heard it.
    I've noticed the "rusty rotor" sound before when braking while pulling out of my carport and it did sound similar-- albeit with engine running so couldn't say beyond that how it sounded different. I wondered about the pads rubbing at all times.

    Obviously, they spent extra time checking this sound for me but it only added labor cost and delcared it normal. I'd have rather that they found a reason to fix something than it make such a noise when it should be rolling freely and quietly. I can't recall any other vehicle of mine doing anything but rolling noiselessly, very curious thing.

    I've never had anything done there before, far as maintenance goes, but when I owned the GMC truck I had an alternator replaced. It's mainly a GM dealership, but they also sell Subaru and Mitsubishi and do the work on those, too. I expected it to be exactly what my owners manual lists to be done, so this missing item (brake bleed) had me thinking the worst.

    All the "extra" cost really comes down to is a mere $40 or so. Nothing to concern myself with. I was only making the point that if I had done much of those basic things myself I could probably have saved some money.

    Now, about the pinging. I had fresh gas from the day before in it, with probably 70 miles driven. The change in amount of pinging was tremendous on the drive home from the dealership, and after that another 100 miles. Like driving a piece of junk while it made so much noise half the time. In the past couple years the pings only seemed like clicking, this was like marbles being shaken in a can. Good news, though, it seems to be better today.

    This is why I wondered if it might be a typical effect of the maintenance. Only time will tell for sure.

    I wish I had asked about the car being hooked up to a diagnostics computer or if the on-board computer was reset/changed, but I expected that to be a part of the process no matter what. I don't really know unless I call to find out, nothing about it is said on the paperwork. Any engine work involves the diagnostic stuff, right? Which is why I figured I'd be driving a finely tuned car home without any odd happenings.

    On that subject, is the computer (ECU?) always checked/modified when serviced? Paper says EGR checked, but nothing about ECU.

    Also noting that the list shows 27 point inspection, I'd think that would cover my question about a sound from the wheels. So again, labor time/cost somehow got longer than expected regardless (back to brake bleed not being on list and possibly charged for anyway).

    In looking over the simple services list on this paper... they show prices for individual items.

    Transmission Flush = $129.95 (um, okay. OM says only if driven hard)
    Cooling System Flush = $99.95 (yikes!)
    Differential Service = $99.95 (yikes again, not hard to drain/add oil!)
    Replace Fuel Filter = $59.95 (another yikes! simple job)
    Induction System Service = $99.95 (fuel injectors, no idea what's involved)
    4 Wheel Alignment = $69.95 (was also done)

    Those things alone add up to the original $500. Yet, I know I could have made this less expensive with a DIY like I usually try to do. This might be about right but I don't have a good (recent) comparison to what other people have paid. I was finding everything from $280 (IIRC) up to $800 (quote at another Subaru dealership) depending on what's done.

    What's past is past, I'm just going to need to see how the car does in the coming months to actually say if it was worth it. Pinging noises multiplied aside, my next concern is the squish sound from the suspension. Maybe both will go away, or maybe not. What I'm keeping tabs of is how this 30K service marks where both made an obvious appearance.

    Ooooops! I keep forgetting to roll the car in neutral with engine off and listen for that other sound. Must remember to try that again.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Rusty Rotors- Even if the brake isn't applied, you will hear a scraping noise on rusty rotors. The pads are not retracted but are pushed back by the rotors or lack of pressure on the rotors. If they are rusty, the rust will fill in that micro-gap between the pads and the rotors and therefore will make noise until you brake a few times to clean the rust off. Very common, and not a problem.

    Diffy Fluid- $99 is a bit much should be closer to $50 to do it and dispose of old fluid.

    ECU- Is not ever part of a "tuneup" if they put the diag on there you are looking at $90/hr of diag time.

    Cooling Flush- $99 is correct, it takes about an hour of labor at 75/hr + fluid and dispose of old fluid

    Fuel Filter- depends on what year the car is, earlier models are a bit less, but the filter itself is about $20-25 If it's a new car, they are located in the fuel tank and don't need replacing on a regular basis, if you asked for it to be replaced they charged you accordingly.

    4-wheel alignment- $69 is a bargain. $99 is fair, and more common is $125

    Injector Cleaning- That's about right, although not needed. I bet that your pinging could be a result of this fuel system cleaning they did. It may have loosened some crud in the line (or perhaps from the fuel filter change) I would give it a few tanks of gas to see how it turns out.

    Brake Flush usually runs about $60-100 we used to charge $75 at the shop I run. It's a ROYAL PITA to flush correctly.

    Hope this helps.

    -mike
  • subi4obssubi4obs Member Posts: 32
    Comforting to hear, thank you. I have heard those diagnostics can be costly just never had it done before, only my truck I had before this car would have qualified for a real test on it since the others were never so computerized. I came very close to needing the truck checked, it ran rough no matter what I tried, but then I traded it in to get the Subaru instead.

    Yeah, those rotors... I shouldn't be too surprised to find out it was only the minor rust it gets from being parked in a carport. Sometimes only takes one night to look terrible. I was asked if it had rained that day or before, I couldn't remember at the moment but now I know. Reason I moved the car was to let a clothes dryer delivery van pull in, which they refused to do because of wires overhead (makes sense). It was raining and I had to dry off that dryer! Don't know why I couldn't remember that when asked.

    I always expect the noise it creates when I go down the driveway, I just wasn't expecting to hear anything without brakes applied. Sure glad you said that to help me realize it, didn't think of them touching at all like that.

    Fuel filter is only the one under the hood on this 2004 Impreza Outback Sport. Sits right up top by the driverside fender. I changed it last year and only difficulty I had was getting one of the hoses to let loose, was very simple to do and I think I paid about $20 to $25 for it.

    HTD to all!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    By the way, I get rust on my rotors within about an hour after washing my car sometimes in the summer if it's real humid out. So not to worry.

    -mike
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    mike,

    I am curious now about the brake flushing. I didn't recall it being a PITA, other than having to worry whether my 10 year old was on the upstroke or the downstroke at the right time :)

    Is it more than just pumping new fluid through until it gets the color change to the fluid in the bottle?

    John
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You use a turkey baster to pull out as much fluid from the resivoir as you can, then refill with a dis-like color material.

    Then you start with the brake that is furthest away from the resivoir. Have someone pump up the brakes til they are hard, then crack the valve while they push down. Once the pedal is down close the valve and repump up the brakes til they are hard and again open the valve until the pedal is on the floor. Repeat until you have a change in fluid color.

    Repeat this procedure until you have done it on all the calipers, be sure to keep re-filling the resivoir.

    It's mostly a PITA cause it's not quick, you have to pull all 4 wheels, etc.

    Oh and if you get air in the lines, you'll be worse off than not having done it at all.

    A bleed on the other hand is a few pumps at each brake caliper, usually done between flushes.

    -mike
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    ok yup, doing it right here, but I haven't been smart enough to use the turkey baster. I have one coming up here next month so I'll get one (probably on sale now too!).

    John
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    Actually I believe you're supposed to flush the caliper farthest away from the proportioning valve first not the reservoir.

    Oh and another thing, I like the motive power bleeder for ~$50 (I think). No pumping the brake pedals just take out the old fluid in the reservoir like mike said with the turkey baster, then fill the power bleeder with new fluid, pump to 10psi and bleed until all the old fluid is out. ;)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Correct rangner, furthest from the proportioning valve, which on most cars is near the resivoir (but not all). Is the power bleeder a push or pull system? I've found the pull systems (such as the mityvac) don't work real well.

    -mike
  • amsbearamsbear Member Posts: 147
    Mike,

    The Motive power bleeder is a push system, as it is mounted on top of the master cylinder and supplies the new fluid under slight (and adjustable) pressure.

    I like the ATE brake fluid, alternating between the "Super Blue" and "TYP 200 Amber" colors.

    Alan
    98 OBW Ltd (125,000 miles)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    ATE is the best for the price. We run the Superblue in our race cars and find it to last a good amount of time despite our heavy braking! Alternating between it and the amber works well too! Some guys like the stuff that runs about $50-60 but it's not worth 4x the price of the ATE.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I tried one of those vacuum pumps to bleed the brakes and it was basically useless. Just didn't work much at all, tons of air bubbles made their way in.

    I ended up resorting to the old "get the wife to pump the brakes" style, and it worked much better.

    According to Cobb Tuning, with ABS, i.e. most new Subies, the ideal order is Front R, Rear L, Front L, Rear R.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I love the idea of blue brake fluid, if only to know when all the old fluid is truly flushed out.

    -juice
  • dan5678dan5678 Member Posts: 28
    most helpful even two months later. So far so good. It's been two days since i removed the sensor that was called out by autozone's OBDII scanner as the source of check engine light and scrubbed the metal bottom of the sensor and the spot on the engine block that the sensor bolts to and re-torqued to 16ft/lbs and when I restarted the car the CEL was extinguished ! Woo hoo, may have saved $65, or it may come back on tomorrow.
  • jbschlickjbschlick Member Posts: 2
    Hi,
    I'm a new poster. I tried going through the other posts to see if I could figure out a solution to my issue. I wanted to have an idea of what might be wrong before going to either the dealer or independent shop. Here is the issue:

    I have 1999 Subaru Forester L with about 85k miles. I noticed last week that it occasionally hesitated when I was driving (seems like when I was accelerating) the problem happened infrequently. I was due for an oil change and thought that may help. I had the oil changed two days ago and didn't drive the car too much after that until this morning (two days later). When I started the car it seemed like it was about to stall out as if it wasn't getting enough gas or I had forgotten to put the clutch in. I went ahead and drove it to work and the hesitation problem happened again, but was much worse than before. It seems to be worse when in lower gear and when accelerating from a stop and getting to a higher speed. Possibly more pronounced after changing gears. I haven't had a chance to buy a bottle of the fuel system cleaner yet (which I intended to do before this issue got worse), but I thought I'd try that to start with. Any other ideas??

    Maybe or maybe not related - I read about the 'judder' issue posted previously. It seems like my car has always done this when I first try to go from a cold start (after car sits for several hours). It feels to me like the AWD is kicking in for some reason, but the wheels are slipping then everything catches and off I go. The thing is that I've already had my clutch replaced and I believe it was after they 'fixed' the clutch issues. Is something else going on?

    Thanks!
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The first thing is to see if the hesitation is isolated to the engine only, and not dependent on load. When in neutral, can youy freely rev the engine without hesistation or stumbling?

    Any weather/temperature changes since two days ago? If it has become colder, rainer, or more humid (or any combination) then that could suggest a spark issue.

    High-mileage Subarus are notorious for developing spark problems, either from a cracked or failing coil pack, or cracked spark plug wires, or maybe both! This will definitely cause the engine to hesistate, and would be worse in damp weather. You may be able to diagnose this further by inspection, but in many cases people just replace the parts and see if the problem is fixed (it usually is).

    The coil pack will be a goofy looking module on top of the engine with spark plug wires coming out of it (one plug going to each cylinder). Examine the pack and the wires carefully and look for cracks, wear, scorch marks, etc.

    Also wouldn't hurt to inspect the plugs, and replace if needed (whould have been done at the 30K and 60K maintenance, and due soon at 90K).

    Good luck!
    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    As they say, Spark or Fuel. Those are the two things to look at.

    Your age and mileage means the following things should already have been changed, but if not do them now:

    * spark plugs
    * spark plug wires (they do wear)
    * fuel filter

    Try those first, if you still have a hesitation replace the ignition coil. It's only $80, and easy to do, I changed one myself in just a few minutes.

    Even a weak battery could be an issue.

    Beyond that, it could be the fuel pump or other more costly things, but I figure if you start with the less expensive items that you probably ought to replace anyway, it won't cost you a fortune.

    -juice
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    I agree with Craig. It sounds like the same problem I had a few years ago with my '01 Forester. Turns out it was a bad coil pack, which, in turn, caused the fouling of a spark plug and plug wire. Upon changing the coil pack, wires and plugs, the problem was fixed.

    Good luck.

    Len
  • sgaddysgaddy Member Posts: 5
    Same old story different angle! I removed the rear driveshaft ( about 6 months ago ) and the shuddering stopped ( when making sharp turns) I have changed fluid and did the figure 8 stuff. The shuddering is back. What else can I do to eliminate this problem. I really don't need the rwd. The car has 180 k and everything else is great. What can I do on my own. I am a decent mechanic but don't do for a living. Don't want to spend much money, please help.
  • cokoladacokolada Member Posts: 2
    Hey Gang!

    First time poster. I have a 99 Outback (2.5 engine) that is giving a knock sensor code. I bought the replacement part but now I could use a little help finding the thing!

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks much - Dan
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Take a look at this image of a 2.5L from a 1996. It should point you to the correct location. You have to imagine the coolant manifold removed to see the knock sensor, though the sensor is accessible with both the coolant and intake manifolds in place.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • solowalkersolowalker Member Posts: 118
    I had a knock sensor code 6 mos. ago on my 2000 Forester...It took me 5 minutes to fix...From the drivers side it's located on the top of the engine. Use a ratchet to remove the bolt and then unplug the wire harness...

    Most of the time all you need to do is clean off the contacts with steel wool until it's shiney on the inside and bottom and then clean off the engine contact point.

    re install...Save yourself $100....
  • mpazosmpazos Member Posts: 42
    I'm in the market for a small SUV or AWD sedan and have just now gotten around to test driving the Forester X. I have to say I like the feel of the vehicle and the fact that the engine doesn't seem to 'buzz' like the other 4 cylinder vehicles I have driven (CR-V, RAV4). One question I had for the salesman was at highway speed (60-70 MPH) the vehicle started experiencing a slight vibration. The salesman told me this was due to the front crossbar on the roof rack being too far forward and if it was slid back or removed, the buffeting/vibration would stop. I didn't have time to get off the road and adjust it, and get back on the highway, so I'm asking if this is BS or did this Forester have a problem. BTW, I'm in the Raleigh NC area and the pre-tax price on the 07 X premium package, auto, and option 5A was $23,300. Thanks, Mick
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    Sounds like BS to me. I have heard of the cross bars causing a whistling or howling noise, but never a vibration. Typically that would be caused by a tire imbalance.

    Let's see what the others have to say.

    Karl
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Had the car been sitting on the lot for a while? Even after a couple of days, the tires will flatspot. Generally, I have to travel 5-7 miles before it goes away. It's noticeably worse in cold weather.

    That would be my suspicion. Out of balance tires would be guess #2 (and if so, ask them to correct the issue before you agree to the purchase). Roof rack will make noise, but not a vibration unless there are windows down, but even then it's just an acoustic issue (buffeting).

    Be sure to check www.fitzmall.com for reference on pricing. They usually have the best prices around, and you can often get local dealers to come close or meet the price.

    Good luck!
    Craig
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    I have the same car you looked at, with the roof rack cross-bars, never have had any vibration.

    I've put 20K on my 2006 Forester, through snow and mud and extreme heat, and love it. :)
  • mpazosmpazos Member Posts: 42
    The car had probably been sitting for awhile, and the temps were about 30 degrees F. But this vibration happened after about 15 minutes of driving, so it sounds like a tire/wheel problem and the salesman was full of S***. Thanks for the heads up on fitzmall. But now another question. At the fitzmall site, is 4eat the auto trans, and why are the prices among same models different? Mick
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    are the tires all the same size, pressure, condition?

    Hopefully it is nothing more than a low tire.

    John
  • cokoladacokolada Member Posts: 2
    There must be something different with the 99 engine. Looked high and low and can't find it. Tried to locate Haynes manual - found up to 98 and starting and 2000.

    Might have to actually go to the dealer (yikes!)
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Did the vibration only happen at a certain speed? If so, then I would suspect out of balance tire(s). There's no reason a vibration should crop up after 15 minutes, unless that's the first time you hit a certain speed.

    4eat = auto trans

    I imagine pricing differences are due to different options, which they do list.
  • mpazosmpazos Member Posts: 42
    I quess I should have been clearer in my last post. At 15 minutes I assume the tires would have been warmed up, and it was 15 minutes into the test drive that I took the car onto the highway and got it up to the speed that the vibration was most noticeable. Anything under 45 MPH I didn't notice the vibration.
  • solowalkersolowalker Member Posts: 118
    I would go over to Pep Boys or Autozone or maybe where you bought the car and ask them where it is located....They usually give that info free...
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    It is common for tire imbalances to only effect a narrow speed range. If you had not hit those speeds previously in the drive, I am not at all surprised you saw it after 15 minutes.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Does your OB have limited slip in the back?. If yes, then try adding an LSD additive to the rear differential.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The large moonroof can cause buffeting if it was open.

    If the roof rack was reversed it could be noisy, too. They should have the round edge pointing forward, like the wings of an airplane.

    Test drive another one, I bet the noise disappears.

    -juice
  • pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    Well, after reading all the posts here, you would think I learned. I just went to my dealership for a State Inspection and Oil Change for my 2001 Outback 4EAT Ltd. I now need a new head gasket as it is leaking all over. Well, they informed me at 96,000 miles that I should *probably* replace it. I was under my extended 100,000 mile warranty at that time.

    Now, I have 107,000 miles and it is all up to me! Take it from me, don't let it wait!

    I am about to embark on a new job with a LOT of commuting again. My dealership said I should be good to go another 100k with the new head gasket ($1400 cost).

    Any thoughts? Should I trust that? I love Outback and don't want to part with it yet!! :confuse:
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    I think you can. They seem to have been honest enough to suggest replacing it before your extended warranty expired......

    A replaced head gasket should indeed be good for at least as long as you will keep it, maybe another 50K miles?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Is that for both sides?

    What coverage do they offer, the usual 12 months?

    -juice
  • pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    I am confused... both sides? And, you mean warranty coverage?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, gaskets on both sides of the engine. Left and right bank of cylinders.

    -juice
  • pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    That is a good question. They just said Head Gasket and $1400 worth of repairs! :cry:
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Sounds to me like they are suggesting a single gasket replacement - I would recommend you replace both of them (probably up your costs to $1800 from $1400, as most work is already done to get to the one gasket) and the water pump/timing belt while you are at it. The chances are in your favor that these new gaskets should last another 100K or more.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • starrmanstarrman Member Posts: 8
    I had my headgasket (both sides) replaced on my 2001 Forester in Aug-06 at 116K for $1750 and I paid another $250 to replace the timing belt and water pump at cost since the engine was apart, the belt and pump were a no brainer. Fluids and oil change included. I am hoping to get another 100K miles out of the car.
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    $2,000 for another 75,000 to 100,000 miles is, indeed a no-brainer. ;)
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    "The chances are in your favor that these new gaskets should last another 100K or more."

    I respectfully disagree, having done head gaskets 3 times on '99-up 2.5L SOHC engines. I would dump ASAP and in fact that's exactly what I did in 2002. :P

    ~Colin
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Well, what would you say the life expectancy to be? 90,000, 75,000, 50,000 :confuse:
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    I thought most repairs were successful once the new gaskets were used. Are you sure you did not have any head warpage (the car, not you) issues?

    Karl
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