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Comments
Also have a new squish sound from some part of the suspension.
I'll be checking the car over myself when I get time but right now I'm not happy with the service and cost. I expected a relatively ping-free car (if such a thing exists) after it spent all day in the shop.
AT was flushed, brakes bled, injectors cleaned, motor oil is synthetic, plugs changed, fuel and air filters changed, coolant flushed.
Parts cost $221, so it was the labor which made the price really high. I'd have done most things myself but I wanted the car "tuned-up" all at once for the sake of warranty, if nothing else.
They should have flushed the brakes instead of bled them though.
Doing the plugs isn't a simple or quick task which probably is what drove the cost up, you have to remove the battery, air box etc, takes probably 1.5hrs. Coolane flush and fill is another 1hr or so (with testing to make sure there is no air-bubbles) so you are looking at about 3hrs labor at a min.
Why do you think that the pinging would be fixed? If you have pinging it's probably due to bad gas or something other than the items that would be done in a 30k service.
-mike
They gave me a price of $450 (after 10% off) before work began. There was going to be a slight increase due to the synthetic motor oil but nothing was said of it going higher.
There wasn't any sort of brake bleed/flush listed on their normal 30K routine, so I had them add it (replace fluid anyway), which made me wonder about their service for Subaru's. The service manager wrote it onto the paper he gave me and I asked once again if that $499 shown on it was still what the cost would be, he said yes no problem about that.
Nothing about wheel bearings on that either, but then that's only an inspection at 60K miles anyhow so I knew it wasn't a part of this, but I told them about a sound I heard recently with the engine off, in neutral, while moving my car back under my carport. He thought it could be rust on the rotors but I tried to explain that I wasn't using the brakes at all when I heard it.
I've noticed the "rusty rotor" sound before when braking while pulling out of my carport and it did sound similar-- albeit with engine running so couldn't say beyond that how it sounded different. I wondered about the pads rubbing at all times.
Obviously, they spent extra time checking this sound for me but it only added labor cost and delcared it normal. I'd have rather that they found a reason to fix something than it make such a noise when it should be rolling freely and quietly. I can't recall any other vehicle of mine doing anything but rolling noiselessly, very curious thing.
I've never had anything done there before, far as maintenance goes, but when I owned the GMC truck I had an alternator replaced. It's mainly a GM dealership, but they also sell Subaru and Mitsubishi and do the work on those, too. I expected it to be exactly what my owners manual lists to be done, so this missing item (brake bleed) had me thinking the worst.
All the "extra" cost really comes down to is a mere $40 or so. Nothing to concern myself with. I was only making the point that if I had done much of those basic things myself I could probably have saved some money.
Now, about the pinging. I had fresh gas from the day before in it, with probably 70 miles driven. The change in amount of pinging was tremendous on the drive home from the dealership, and after that another 100 miles. Like driving a piece of junk while it made so much noise half the time. In the past couple years the pings only seemed like clicking, this was like marbles being shaken in a can. Good news, though, it seems to be better today.
This is why I wondered if it might be a typical effect of the maintenance. Only time will tell for sure.
I wish I had asked about the car being hooked up to a diagnostics computer or if the on-board computer was reset/changed, but I expected that to be a part of the process no matter what. I don't really know unless I call to find out, nothing about it is said on the paperwork. Any engine work involves the diagnostic stuff, right? Which is why I figured I'd be driving a finely tuned car home without any odd happenings.
On that subject, is the computer (ECU?) always checked/modified when serviced? Paper says EGR checked, but nothing about ECU.
Also noting that the list shows 27 point inspection, I'd think that would cover my question about a sound from the wheels. So again, labor time/cost somehow got longer than expected regardless (back to brake bleed not being on list and possibly charged for anyway).
In looking over the simple services list on this paper... they show prices for individual items.
Transmission Flush = $129.95 (um, okay. OM says only if driven hard)
Cooling System Flush = $99.95 (yikes!)
Differential Service = $99.95 (yikes again, not hard to drain/add oil!)
Replace Fuel Filter = $59.95 (another yikes! simple job)
Induction System Service = $99.95 (fuel injectors, no idea what's involved)
4 Wheel Alignment = $69.95 (was also done)
Those things alone add up to the original $500. Yet, I know I could have made this less expensive with a DIY like I usually try to do. This might be about right but I don't have a good (recent) comparison to what other people have paid. I was finding everything from $280 (IIRC) up to $800 (quote at another Subaru dealership) depending on what's done.
What's past is past, I'm just going to need to see how the car does in the coming months to actually say if it was worth it. Pinging noises multiplied aside, my next concern is the squish sound from the suspension. Maybe both will go away, or maybe not. What I'm keeping tabs of is how this 30K service marks where both made an obvious appearance.
Ooooops! I keep forgetting to roll the car in neutral with engine off and listen for that other sound. Must remember to try that again.
Diffy Fluid- $99 is a bit much should be closer to $50 to do it and dispose of old fluid.
ECU- Is not ever part of a "tuneup" if they put the diag on there you are looking at $90/hr of diag time.
Cooling Flush- $99 is correct, it takes about an hour of labor at 75/hr + fluid and dispose of old fluid
Fuel Filter- depends on what year the car is, earlier models are a bit less, but the filter itself is about $20-25 If it's a new car, they are located in the fuel tank and don't need replacing on a regular basis, if you asked for it to be replaced they charged you accordingly.
4-wheel alignment- $69 is a bargain. $99 is fair, and more common is $125
Injector Cleaning- That's about right, although not needed. I bet that your pinging could be a result of this fuel system cleaning they did. It may have loosened some crud in the line (or perhaps from the fuel filter change) I would give it a few tanks of gas to see how it turns out.
Brake Flush usually runs about $60-100 we used to charge $75 at the shop I run. It's a ROYAL PITA to flush correctly.
Hope this helps.
-mike
Yeah, those rotors... I shouldn't be too surprised to find out it was only the minor rust it gets from being parked in a carport. Sometimes only takes one night to look terrible. I was asked if it had rained that day or before, I couldn't remember at the moment but now I know. Reason I moved the car was to let a clothes dryer delivery van pull in, which they refused to do because of wires overhead (makes sense). It was raining and I had to dry off that dryer! Don't know why I couldn't remember that when asked.
I always expect the noise it creates when I go down the driveway, I just wasn't expecting to hear anything without brakes applied. Sure glad you said that to help me realize it, didn't think of them touching at all like that.
Fuel filter is only the one under the hood on this 2004 Impreza Outback Sport. Sits right up top by the driverside fender. I changed it last year and only difficulty I had was getting one of the hoses to let loose, was very simple to do and I think I paid about $20 to $25 for it.
HTD to all!
-mike
I am curious now about the brake flushing. I didn't recall it being a PITA, other than having to worry whether my 10 year old was on the upstroke or the downstroke at the right time
Is it more than just pumping new fluid through until it gets the color change to the fluid in the bottle?
John
Then you start with the brake that is furthest away from the resivoir. Have someone pump up the brakes til they are hard, then crack the valve while they push down. Once the pedal is down close the valve and repump up the brakes til they are hard and again open the valve until the pedal is on the floor. Repeat until you have a change in fluid color.
Repeat this procedure until you have done it on all the calipers, be sure to keep re-filling the resivoir.
It's mostly a PITA cause it's not quick, you have to pull all 4 wheels, etc.
Oh and if you get air in the lines, you'll be worse off than not having done it at all.
A bleed on the other hand is a few pumps at each brake caliper, usually done between flushes.
-mike
John
Oh and another thing, I like the motive power bleeder for ~$50 (I think). No pumping the brake pedals just take out the old fluid in the reservoir like mike said with the turkey baster, then fill the power bleeder with new fluid, pump to 10psi and bleed until all the old fluid is out.
-mike
The Motive power bleeder is a push system, as it is mounted on top of the master cylinder and supplies the new fluid under slight (and adjustable) pressure.
I like the ATE brake fluid, alternating between the "Super Blue" and "TYP 200 Amber" colors.
Alan
98 OBW Ltd (125,000 miles)
-mike
I ended up resorting to the old "get the wife to pump the brakes" style, and it worked much better.
According to Cobb Tuning, with ABS, i.e. most new Subies, the ideal order is Front R, Rear L, Front L, Rear R.
-juice
-juice
I'm a new poster. I tried going through the other posts to see if I could figure out a solution to my issue. I wanted to have an idea of what might be wrong before going to either the dealer or independent shop. Here is the issue:
I have 1999 Subaru Forester L with about 85k miles. I noticed last week that it occasionally hesitated when I was driving (seems like when I was accelerating) the problem happened infrequently. I was due for an oil change and thought that may help. I had the oil changed two days ago and didn't drive the car too much after that until this morning (two days later). When I started the car it seemed like it was about to stall out as if it wasn't getting enough gas or I had forgotten to put the clutch in. I went ahead and drove it to work and the hesitation problem happened again, but was much worse than before. It seems to be worse when in lower gear and when accelerating from a stop and getting to a higher speed. Possibly more pronounced after changing gears. I haven't had a chance to buy a bottle of the fuel system cleaner yet (which I intended to do before this issue got worse), but I thought I'd try that to start with. Any other ideas??
Maybe or maybe not related - I read about the 'judder' issue posted previously. It seems like my car has always done this when I first try to go from a cold start (after car sits for several hours). It feels to me like the AWD is kicking in for some reason, but the wheels are slipping then everything catches and off I go. The thing is that I've already had my clutch replaced and I believe it was after they 'fixed' the clutch issues. Is something else going on?
Thanks!
Any weather/temperature changes since two days ago? If it has become colder, rainer, or more humid (or any combination) then that could suggest a spark issue.
High-mileage Subarus are notorious for developing spark problems, either from a cracked or failing coil pack, or cracked spark plug wires, or maybe both! This will definitely cause the engine to hesistate, and would be worse in damp weather. You may be able to diagnose this further by inspection, but in many cases people just replace the parts and see if the problem is fixed (it usually is).
The coil pack will be a goofy looking module on top of the engine with spark plug wires coming out of it (one plug going to each cylinder). Examine the pack and the wires carefully and look for cracks, wear, scorch marks, etc.
Also wouldn't hurt to inspect the plugs, and replace if needed (whould have been done at the 30K and 60K maintenance, and due soon at 90K).
Good luck!
Craig
Your age and mileage means the following things should already have been changed, but if not do them now:
* spark plugs
* spark plug wires (they do wear)
* fuel filter
Try those first, if you still have a hesitation replace the ignition coil. It's only $80, and easy to do, I changed one myself in just a few minutes.
Even a weak battery could be an issue.
Beyond that, it could be the fuel pump or other more costly things, but I figure if you start with the less expensive items that you probably ought to replace anyway, it won't cost you a fortune.
-juice
Good luck.
Len
First time poster. I have a 99 Outback (2.5 engine) that is giving a knock sensor code. I bought the replacement part but now I could use a little help finding the thing!
Any suggestions?
Thanks much - Dan
Most of the time all you need to do is clean off the contacts with steel wool until it's shiney on the inside and bottom and then clean off the engine contact point.
re install...Save yourself $100....
Let's see what the others have to say.
Karl
That would be my suspicion. Out of balance tires would be guess #2 (and if so, ask them to correct the issue before you agree to the purchase). Roof rack will make noise, but not a vibration unless there are windows down, but even then it's just an acoustic issue (buffeting).
Be sure to check www.fitzmall.com for reference on pricing. They usually have the best prices around, and you can often get local dealers to come close or meet the price.
Good luck!
Craig
I've put 20K on my 2006 Forester, through snow and mud and extreme heat, and love it.
Hopefully it is nothing more than a low tire.
John
Might have to actually go to the dealer (yikes!)
4eat = auto trans
I imagine pricing differences are due to different options, which they do list.
If the roof rack was reversed it could be noisy, too. They should have the round edge pointing forward, like the wings of an airplane.
Test drive another one, I bet the noise disappears.
-juice
Now, I have 107,000 miles and it is all up to me! Take it from me, don't let it wait!
I am about to embark on a new job with a LOT of commuting again. My dealership said I should be good to go another 100k with the new head gasket ($1400 cost).
Any thoughts? Should I trust that? I love Outback and don't want to part with it yet!! :confuse:
A replaced head gasket should indeed be good for at least as long as you will keep it, maybe another 50K miles?
What coverage do they offer, the usual 12 months?
-juice
-juice
I respectfully disagree, having done head gaskets 3 times on '99-up 2.5L SOHC engines. I would dump ASAP and in fact that's exactly what I did in 2002. :P
~Colin
Karl