Dodge,Ford,Chevy------who wins?

stanford · February 1999

Actually, the F250-SD and the F150 are priced about the same. In some configurations, the SD costs less than the LD. You are correct in pointing out that the engine choice is different though -- you can't go smaller than the 5.4 V8 in the SD line.

Anyway, the F250 crew cab XLT has an invoice price of under $21K, MSRP under $24K. That's hardly a giant leap from most of the LD extended-cabs.

ladyblue · February 1999

cdean is right. I would have prefered the crew cab, but my budget wouldn't allow it. Also, the 8' bed is important to me, so the short bed just won't do.

quadrunner500 · March 1999

Wall St. Journal says demand for trucks continues in 1999, surprising analysts expecting a slowdown. G.M. announced that for April they will ramp up production to 14,000 MORE vehicles, of which 13,000 are trucks, and 1,000 are cars. Did not say if the truck number included SUV's.

ladyblue · March 1999

I would assume they are including SUVs in that truck number. Just from observation of what's on the roads, it seems SUVs are more abundant than pickups.

Rocles · March 1999

Been gone awile, we started a truss plant to complement our company. Maybe the truck increases are due to my firm? Four purchases this month! Long time kcram and cdean!Brutus still around? Did he ever get his truck?

cdean · March 1999

yeah, he got it and went to Alaska. had some motor trouble, but he's happy and will be posting sometime this spring. Good to hear from you again. 4 purchases, must be signs of good times. what'd ya get?

KCRam · March 1999

hey Roc!

Yes, you have been away awhile - heck, I even work here at Town Hall now

Rocles · March 1999

Two single axle dumps and two Dodges-both one-tons with Cummins. I know what kcram is thinking but I will buy Ford again. We merged with a local developer/builder and my partner and our new associate are gung-ho Dodge boys.

What kind of trouble did Brutus have? And how are you working for Edmunds?

stanford · March 1999

Brutus' engine had a problem with one of the cams coming loose I believe -- Ford swapped a new engine in, no charge.

KCRam · March 1999

I was referred to Edmund's by an outgoing host, and they asked me if I was interested in being a Community Leader (aka assistant host). Since I'm here all the time anyway, I said yes

I updated my profile to mention it

blue · March 1999

I hope someone can help me with this dilemma; I'm nothing more than a businessman that will drive my truck more in city than off-road. However, I was raised in Arizona by a father that always drove trucks, hunted out of trucks, worked cattle in trucks, so on, so on. I WANT A TRUCK!!!! I've scoured the Web (especially Edmund's) for info on who had the best product; Dodge, Chevy or Ford. It's looking like Ford is the clear winner, but I'm really leaning toward Chevy. Although I'm generally in the city, I'll be towing a bass boat at times, and will do some very light hauling that your regular homeowner would do. Could someone give me the real-deal on this controversy?
I test drove the Dodge Ram w/Extended cab and the 318 cu. in. engine. Posi-trac & HD everything is what I want to order on the truck, & this was comparably equipped. I was ready to buy, but a friend that works his trucks as they were meant to be worked (heavy hauling, towing, etc.) told me Dodge had the worst transmission in the business. He told me CHEVY!!!. Help!

quadrunner500 · March 1999

Slow down...you need to study all three more carefully. There are not just three trucks when you consider x-cab, quad cab, club cab, crew cab, long-bed, short bed, axle ratio, engine and transmission options, payload, towing, interior appointments, colors, tires and wheels. I suggest you visit http://www.carpoint.com, choose the "auto pricer" which leads you through the selection process, adds up the prices, lists the options and required combinations, gives you details and specifications and reviews. Then come back here for discussion. Ford may be the clear winner, that's what Consumer Reports says. Chevy may be the clear winner, that's what Motor Trend says. Dodge may be the clear winner, that's what ahem...dodgeram says. Who's right? Depends on you.

ladyblue · March 1999

blue:

quadrunner500 is a smart guy - listen to him.

Take your time and really look at what's out there. I've owned a Ford F150, now own a Dodge Ram 1500 and I've driven a few Chevys. As quadrunner said, you can pretty much put together a truck that will suit your particular needs. And if you look around this Pickups Conference, you'll see pros and cons on all three makes.

For me, I needed four doors, so that eliminated Chevy. And a crew cab would have been just too much truck for me. Believe it or not, it came down to something stupid like color and options, and a Dodge dealer who treated me much better than the Ford dealer.

Good luck and keep us posted!

dodgeram · March 1999

Thats right, I did say dodgeram is the clear winner because I own one, I drive the piss out of it and it hasn't let me down yet. I did crack the exaust pipe, thats because of it getting stuck really deep, about seven times in one day plowing wet snow for over 14hrs straight!. If that doesn't kill the tranny I don't know what will. But all is fine with the truck, and I recomend it greatly. Only buy if you like it. I love it and alot of other people like it as well, but some don't, thats fine, but don't like it because someone told you it might have transmission problems. Every truck wheither it's Ford, chevy, or dodge, they all had there share of tranny problems. You here of comments on this site of people having tranny problems with ford and chevy, but are you not going to buy ford or chevy because that you heard they have tranny problems to, I would think not, so you be the judge, if you like the ram by all means get one they look great sit high, and have all the creature comfort features today's, truck buyer is looking for. Too me the ford light duty trucks, look to swooping and doesn't look very tough, and the new chevs, they have yet to be proven, but it all comes down to you!

good luck!

malibu1 · March 1999

Since the new Ford's are too swoopy and not very 'tough' then count me out!!!

I need a truck that looks tough.......man I have a lawn tractor that looks 'tough' but I am not going to pull my trailer with it.....

quadrunner500 · March 1999

Ladyblue,
I'm not as smart as you are sweet! Thank you!

dodgeram · March 1999

Malibu1, Long time no see!

Aren't you the won who was whining about truck commercials.

I see you found something else to whine about again.

And yes tough is good.

cdean · April 1999

Dodgeram

have you any respect, class, or maturity?

Kcram

Whats the latest sales figures? you always seem to know where to look.

KCRam · April 1999

cdean,

The March figures will be out on Monday or Tuesday, due to the Good Friday holiday. I'll put them up then. By the way, this marks the halfway point of the model year (Oct 1-Sep 30).

quadrunner500 · April 1999

Hey, they don't call us "one-percenters" for nothing!

wantaf150 · April 1999

Kcram-

Do you believe that the Ford F-series pickup is the best one out there? You seem to follow the industry closely and I was wondering what your "take" is on why the blue oval consistently outsells all other PU lines....I figure that it sells because it is the best built truck out there.....do you agree? Looking to but one in the next month or two.......thanks, Michael from TX

KCRam · April 1999

Mike,

Ford sales are the highest because they have been quicker to give customers what they want from a truck. Ford, Dodge, and GM all make capable trucks; for most people, it's a matter of personal taste. But Ford was first with a new line of engines, Ford was first with a line of truly heavy-duty pickups, and Ford responds the quickest after someone else's product innovation to keep their customers. I had a pair of Fords before my current Ram, and I have driven GM trucks as well, and believe me, everybody makes both lemons and cream puffs.

If you're undecided between brands, test drive them all, and let your body tell you what to buy - which truck "feels" the best to you.

KCRam · April 1999

interesting that GM, normally very good about posting individual model sales, did not bother this month at their website. Automotive Industries won't post them for a couple of weeks, so we'll have to wait a bit for the accurate Silverado and Sierra numbers.

Could GM be that embarrassed about having an overall decrease for the month in the face of Ford and DaimlerChrysler announcing yet more sales records?

cdean · April 1999

kcram
Where on GM's website do they put those figures?
Also what's the AI website, if you could please.

I like to keep track of the boxscores, too

KCRam · April 1999

GM Press Releases - this is where they (usually) keep their figures.

DaimlerChrysler Media site - Dodge numbers are always here every month - click on "Press Releases" at the left menu

AI Online - Automotive Industries collects monthly data about 2 weeks late - they do not show Calendar and model year cumed numbers. This is also where I find the engine production numbers.

PR Newswire - Ford News - this is where I get Ford numbers; their press release page does not give details

dave40 · April 1999

FORD CHEVY

Dodge is now German Dshungel = Junk

dodgeram · April 1999

And what Gm is pure american? I don't think so!

How about izuzu?
Or partners with toyota, in some countries?
and there alot more, there not the worlds largest automaker by themselves you know?

And mercedes has nothing to do with dodge trucks, there biult here in america, (some in mexico) pure mopar parts, and chrysler design team in america desighned it, so only in company name is it half forgein.

rocketjock · April 1999

Unfortunetly, there is very little "buy American" left to buy, what with the global economy and all.
Besides, I think dave40 is really worried that a some of that quality Mercedes engineering will sneak it's way into Chrysler products.

huntman · April 1999

As far as the Ford, Dodge, GM debate, they are all very nice trucks and we are lucky to have three major competitors to keep improving our products. I bought in the last of Feb my 99 GMC Ext Cab SLT 4x4. I like the truck very well and it is the best one that suits my needs. We have driven many Fords over the years on the Farm and they are very tuff. We are looking to but a new F350 XLT 4x4 V10 for a Farm truck this uncoming winter. From my observations the GM trucks will get about two MPG over a Ford or a Dodge in most driving situations. Been getting 15 MPG with the Sierra, where our current F250 is getting about 8. The bigger extended cab and better gas milage is what drove me to the general. I have rode in the back of the old and new (much roomier) GM, the back of a Dodge for a four hour trip and couldn't walk for a day. The back of a new F150 for an hour and that was enough. And I have sat in the back of a new super duty. I feel that the super duty follows the GM's as far as room in the extended cabs. If a person can sacrifice having a fourth door for now, the GM is a good choice. My friends, family and myself have rode in teh back of my truck comfortable and it is not cramped. It all comes down to personal preferance and best of luck. My advice is to drive all three and find the one that best fits YOUR needs.

Huntman

KCRam · April 1999

Big Three "Job 1" announcements for MY2000:

Dodge Ram: August 2

Ford F150/F250LD: August 23
Ford Super Duty: July 25

Chevy Silverado/GMC Sierra (new body):
June 15
Chevy 25/3500/GMC Sierra 25/3500:
June 24
(note - these were still listed as C/K, not a new design)

Dodge Dakota: June 23

Ford Ranger: August 2

Chevy S10: August 16
GMC Sonoma: August 9

cdean · April 1999

for GM, the new suburbans and tahoes come out this year, I think the BIG trucks come out 2001.

quadrunner500 · April 1999

Suburberados?

cdean · May 1999

buddy of ours that runs diesel injection shop came back with news about dodge's diesel future. this is same guy who told us a year ago Chevy would get the Isuzu motor. He said the Cummins is going with fully electronic fuel pumps next year. His qualm with them is they will be very expensive to repair if they do go out, so lets hope they are reliable. I think he said Stanadyne was making the pump. the machine that calibrates the pump cost a quarter mil $, so your everyday, good ol' joe, diesel mechanic will not be able to work on this one.

Future of Dodge diesels:
he said that as soon as the cummins contract runs out ( 2 years?) the Daimler Chrysler will be putting a Mercedes Diesel in the Ram. I've seen the Mercedes in large industrial applications. Very impressive power, but extremely expensive motors to maintain. will be interesting to see what kind of engine (if they do) they come up with for a pickup.

Chevy 4-doors: dealer buddy of mine said MY2000 chevy's should come with 4 doors on them. didn't say he had GM's word on it for sure, just said that they "should" have 4.

KCRam · May 1999

cdean,

I was checking the Benz web pages looking over their low-end medium duty diesels, and they have one that is VERY comparable in class to the Cummins 5.9. It's a 6.4 liter (389 cube) straight six turbo, 3 valves per cylinder (two intake, one exhaust), centered injectors, and individual injection pumps. Came in 2 ratings: 230 hp/600 lb-ft, and 280/800.

KCRam · May 1999

The summer 1999 issue of Open Road (the truck mag from the guys at Road & Track) has a clean shot of a HD Chevy Crew Cab. The accompanying article contradicts itself; it says the new trucks will arrive next year, but will be MY2000s.

They look exactly like the light duty Silverados - no hood bulge, same grille, same body lines. GM is still using those big fender flares, which I always thought made the last series of truck seem like a wannabe (tacked on parts to make it stronger), while the Ram and Super Duty Fords simply are built "full-size" from the get-go.

brucec35 · May 1999

I own a Dodge Ram and a F-150. Except for looks, I prefer the Ford in almost every category. Especially reliability.

bushpilot · May 1999

I own a Dodge Ram and a F-150. I prefer the Dodge in every catagory encountered so far. Better ride, better body, better milage, better looks, quieter..but not enough miles on the Dodge to know about reliability. The Fords got 72,000 and already one new trany, ABS is a joke, engine leaks oil like a sieve, and the wiring is a sham...
All that from a died in the wool Ford man. It forced me to try a change.

KCRam · June 1999

The cover story of today's (6/2/99) auto.com was the announcement of Ford and Dodge going for the military light truck contract that GM won back in the 80s. Ford will be offering a modifed Super Duty F-series, while Dodge ill be preparing a HD Ram. Both will be diesels.

GM's excuse for not rebidding? They wanted to concentrate on the Silverado/Sierra.

My take is, GM would rather make money off us John and Jane Publics, while Ford and Dodge are more interested in showing their versatility and strength - what better marketing tool for someone interested in a tough pickup then knowing the Ford or the Dodge is making the rounds around the world in severe-duty military service?

Lohengrin · June 1999

I drive those old GM CUCV's all the time. My post hasn't got HMMVW's yet, though we will soon. But the old CUCV's are damn tough trucks and will be a hard act to follow, IMHO. I'm a little suprised to hear that the military wants to order more commerical vehicles; HMMVW's do pretty much everything now days.

Lohengrin · June 1999

Meant HMMWV. Sorry.

dave40 · June 1999

Check out July issue of Car and Driver Magazine page 139 Tested a GMC Sierra 2500 versus Ford F-250 Super Duty . It was a sweep by the GMC The GMC had the 6.0 and the Ford had the V-10 The GMC accelerated faster, stopped shorter, rode better,quieter. They both had a tow rating of 10,000 pounds. The Ford had a payload capacity of 2500 pounds,the GMC a payload capacity of 3100 pounds (600pounds more!)

markbuck · June 1999

I'd rather have the Ford in the 3/4 or 1 ton. Even though I own one of the new 1/2 ton Silverado's. My buddies F350SD V-10 is the best vehicle I have ever driven.

KCRam · June 1999

I tread that C/D test, and once again, they're testing trucks like cars. I had a long tlk a year ago with one of their editors about that subject - he happened to be the only one on the entire C/D staff that actually used a truck daily.

Car magazines tend to want trucks to "feel" like cars, further promoting them as a "fad" purchase instead of for people who truly use them. C/D would be a lot more likely to enjoy the higher rpm range of the GM Vortec engines than the average truck owner, because they're used to driving cars in that rpm range. Yes, both trucks could tow 10K, but neither one of them actually did in the test. Instead, there were ratings for back seat room - if you want back seat room, both Ford and GMC offer crew cabs. C/D raved about GM's use of a trans temperature gauge. Good idea on GM's part. But at no point did C/D actually put the trucks in a load situation where looking at that gauge was necessary.

Car & Driver, Motor Trend/Truck Trend, and Automobile really need to stick to cars - they continually embarrass themselves with tests like this. Truck Trend's recent test of the Ford Powerstroke against the Dodge Cummins listed both trucks as "Lariat" - hmmm - the plate on my Ram says "Laramie", not "Lariat" - how hard was that to read off the side of the truck after driving it for a week, and why did the copy editor miss such a blatant mistake?

quadrunner500 · June 1999

But even in a truck, factors like acceleration, braking and ride quality do count, and are things you can appreciate every day. Even if what you want is a truck for hauling or towing, there is not a reason why you shouldn't want the shortest stopping distance since it could prevent an accident in an emergency.

KCRam · June 1999

quad,

I agree with you on braking, but do you really care that your truck is half a second faster than mine in 0-60? As long as I can merge from the on-ramp without endangering a life, that's good enough for me. Skidpad numbers? Not with the average full-size pickup's center of gravity.

One of the road tests that sold me on the Ram diesel was of the 2500 Club 4x4 in the premiere issue of Open Road 4 years ago. Rather than brag about "numbers", they went to a nursery, bought 2 trees and a redwood picnic table with benches, and hauled it all home. Comments like "the engine never felt the load" told me more than a 0-60 time. OR recently tested a Ford Powerstroke against a Dodge Cummins, and it had to be the best test I've read in years. Besides Open Road, some of the most useful pickup tryuck toad tests I've seen were in Trailer Life - they don't care about carlike performance figures, they want to know if the truck can "do the job" - pulling a 6000 pound boat & trailer up a 6% grade on an interstate without overheating or becoming a road block, and to bring the whole combination to a stop.

The whole point of C/D's test was to pit 3/4 ton 4x4s that could tow 10K against each other - that was in the opening of the article. So why not TOW something?

dave40 · June 1999

According to Car & Driver The GMC 2500 beat the ford SuperDuty V-10 by 6 seconds to 90 MPH

markbuck · June 1999

Agree with you, Trailer Life is a great source of info on 3/4 or 1 tons.

If you wanna go fast with no weight on board, buy a Motorcycle!

dave40 · June 1999

GOT ONE !

KCRam · June 1999

wasn't really a comparable test, either dave40. The Silverado/Sierra 2500 is closer to the Ford F250 Light Duty. GM just added springs to push them over 8600 lbs GVWR; Ford could easily do the same to the 7700 F250. When the new heavy duty GM trucks come out, then pit it against the Super Duty Fords.

As for speed, yeah, a Corvette engine is gonna outrun a truck engine every time. I still want to see that 6.0 in an honest truck test - puling something heavy, in the lower rpm band where most trucks tend to be.

dave40 · June 1999

Kcram: Go drive a new GM 6.0 YOU MIGHT LIKE IT !

Dodge,Ford,Chevy------who wins?

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