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Dodge,Ford,Chevy------who wins?
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Comments
http://www.caranddriver.com
But, i agree, it will be hard to make an advertisement for a new engine that doesn't have the raw numbers. Just read some posts around here and see how people preach peak numbers as bible.
My point exactly. Today with the consumer buying light trucks as much as the work/commercial user, manufacturers have to play the numbers game. Cummins is sending that revised engine to Dodge in January not just to make some drivability adjustments, but to reclaim the hp and torque lead from Navistar. Never mind that, since both engines currently produce 235 hp @ 2700 rpm, physics tell you they are also both producing 460 lb-ft @ 2700 rpm as well. That "500" number from Ford sat in people's minds at the number to beat. So Dodge will have 505 to work with - a big improvement? No. A numbers game and a marketing tool? Absolutely.
With the Nav at 235/500 and the Cummins at a projected 245/505, the Duramax really needs to come in at 230-250 hp and it must have 500 lb-ft. That magic digit "5" will be a sales killer for GM if they can't meet it, just as the magic digit "3" makes or breaks a gas engine's horsepower figure.
It appears that the Tundra was "immune" to the slow month of June.
heard it through the grapevine
I think that GM really has to figure which part of the truck debate they want to go all out for. Throwing new engines around has always been a Chevy stronghold but they have lost customers through the years with the other features. Ford has really positioned itself as the work-truck leader with the exceptional line of the super-duty's. Their light half-tons are nimble enough to appeal to new truck-owners which completes the circle.
Dodge knows that looks won't get them to Ford's level so they have been improving options and the like. GM is right to design a new diesel but better start looking at the whole package.
4.8 + 15 hp same torque
5.3 + 15 hp + 10lbs torque
6.0 + 25 hp same torque
but the hp increase was achieved with new cam's
4.8 270 hp
5.3 285 hp
6.0 325 hp
The rules have changed but the first rule hasn't:Ford is the truck leader. They haven't changed styles "each year" to keep up. Keep up? Last time I checked keeping up for Ford means maintaing number 1.
Don't misinterpret me; Dodge has made VAST improvements during the past decade and I think it was great for the other two. It does add to the mix. Trust me, I own all three for our firm and the Rams have held their own.
Chevy is in the biggest need for a good shot in the arm if they want to stop the bleeding. Boy,that strike couldn't have hit them at a worse time.
I looked at the Ford and the Dodge, and testdrove the Tundra and the Silverado (Z71). If the Toyota weren't 95% fullsize I may have bought it. I have owned Ford, Dodge, and Chevy cars and found that the Chevies had the best quality (always started and ran - not necessarily the shake-rattle-paint quality). So you can see I'm going to say I'm buying a Chevy Siverado 1500 - 4x4, ext. cab, Z-71, w/5.3L engine. Why? It has the largest interior, for 2000 - the 5.3 makes 285hp and I believe has better mpg than the large (same power range) Ford and Dodge engines, and it has Autotrac instantaneous 4wd as an option. Hopefully GM has most of the bugs worked out after a year of production.
I won't be pulling a horsetrailer much, and estimate the max. wt. to be around 3000lb. So the 1500 should be fine. I want to keep the truck for a longtime, and I just couldn't live with the 12mpg people are getting from the 6.0L in the 2500.
Tim,
Driving in a bow-tie? Wouldn't you rather be driving sheep?
Serious matter: How many guys today driving those pretty Dodge sheep had trucks prior to the re-design?? Let alone guys who actually drove those butt-nasty ones before the new girl friendly style?
O bjects that
R esemble horse
D roppings
There's a 16 year old Dodge W350 at my dad's job - it has outlived quite few Fords and GMs purchased after it. At one point, the bed was so beat up from use, the tailgate wouldn't open. It has since had the bed straightened and a bedliner added, and was fully repainted a couple of years ago. Still starts every morning, and passes inspection every year. I had driven it a few times, and it rode like a brick, but it was as tough as one, too - it thought nothing about backing up over curbs to get to where it needed to be, without having to floor it to do it.
When I was shopping for a heavy duty truck, that W350 told me "Dodge".
M echanics
C ompanion
That Dodge is the exception-not the rule. There is always some guy in Tinbucktu that had some old VW mini-truck and he has 300,000 miles on it and those stories sometimes ring true. However, I wonder how many of those rams tore their tranny after 60k miles?
My expierence at my firm is that the newer Rams have outlasted the Chevys-but that isn't a great accomplishment. It's sad. I had loved Chevy growing up and the first truck we started with was an old c50. The axles and suspension were always giving us problems which in turn sent us to the Ford dealer.
That first Ford was so damn ugly in my eyes! I let my partner buy it and regretted immediately. That was 12 years ago. Now we have 18 light-trucks in which 12 are Fords and I couldn't be happier.
I vowed that I will never be blind to brand again---big fan of Ford--but not blind. The Rams have given us some problems but no major ones and we have noticed the new Toy Tundra since we will be buying two new trucks at the end of this year. My personal truck is a F-150 ex.cab w/5.4l and I've been completly satisfied.
By the way, those new additions,(whatever they will be--haven't decided yet), will be replacing our remaining Chevys.
CHEVY TRUCKS
ask Albert
Smssmith1,
Say no more, 6.88 was a great rate offer!
CHEVY RULES !
I side with Rocles on the old Dodge debate, I think KC's dad's work's truck was the exception not the rule. I can't tell you how many farmers, ranchers, mechanics, etc etc, i've saw struggle with the "old" dodges. they couldn't get thru a wet paper bag. any heavy duty company who attempted to work one of the trucks usually learned fast and hard. one thing about them, they always had great engines. it was everything around the engine that sucked. couldn't pull a trailer without scary handling or slipping tranny. I remember my grandfathers dodge in particular...the 360 would run like a scalded ape, BUT, any slight load in the bed would cause fishtailing going down the road, the front end shook horribly over 65 mph, tranny didn't last, you needed a parachute to get the thing to stop, AC never worked for more than a week at a time....I saw many an old dodge with these same symptoms. Even the older model Dodges with the Cummins were crappy. People were buying those trucks because 1)it had a Cummins, and 2) thats the only thing that mattered. Well, a couple of long distance heavy haulers I knew were cussing Dodge because their Cummins wanted to pull that 10000# load, but their clutch was slipping going up hills, or their rear end was burning out, or all their electronics weren't working, etc.
sorry, didn't start out meaning to get into that kinda detail
Ditto. Dodge hardly got rid of the few trucks they made back then. I remember Dodge always being the cheapest in price and that will always get some guys in the door. Good observation on their engines--solid work-horses but the overall truck was inferior to Chevy and Ford.
I always point out to Dodge fans that when the cummins showed up--the dealers still had to find new ways of selling the truck. Ask any Horse man--they always stuck with Oval and Bowtie for their haulers.
Not disputing your observations on the previous Dodge truck, and yeah, that W350 is probably not representative of the total production. My point in bringing that unit up was imply that a good truck will always last forever, properly maintained. Fords and GMs more often last by default, meaning they're built well enough to take more abuse and less maintenance. Everybody comments on, and DC certainly is aware of, the Mopar 47RE automatic behind the Cummins, and its problems with handling the oil-burner's torque. Yet mine has been flawless. Then again, I also spend the $90 every 12,000 miles for the dealer to do a full tranny service (fluid, filter, gasket, band adjustment), as the owner's manual states.
DC certainly had to learn to match the initial build quality of Ford and GM after 1994. GMC used to sell double the number of Dodges, now Dodge is 2-1/2 times more than GMC, and 70% of Chevy production. They've won the JDPower APEAL award 4 straight years over Ford and GM. They must have learned SOMETHING by now
The production figures proved a new low for the American consumer. It proved that they didn't bother with the suspect Dodge rep and bought the product simply for the looks. I guess Ford and Chevy shouldn't be rewarded for quality.
Chevy rides the most like a car in my expirence. Their gas engines seem to be the best (after the latest re-design). Put a heavy trailer on the back end, or a big load on, and your head lights become yard lights for the man on the moon. If you want a truck for a plywood once in a while the chevy is good.
The best engine overall is the cummins diesel in the dodge. The Ford power stroke is right behind though, and has more power. Either one need more gears than you can get, as my friends with the double max weight trailers tell me. Get the 6 speed transmission if you can stand a manual. May have to wait on the dodge, but it is wroth it. Automatics don't stand up to diesels well. (though some have has luck, so long as you don't overload things, but then I consider overloading the point of a pickup)
Ford has the nicest overall suspention, but it rides like a truck. Dudge has problems with suspention and body quality. The old folks towing the 5th wheeler swear by their dodge, or swear at their other brand.
Hey dave40, can you know off that propaganda. My religion is christian, not Chevy.