Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

pattim3 · July 2001

Hi Juice! I just love your use of keyboard diagrams. I'm sure some more folks would have loved your diagram of how to do the Samba in last weeks chat! It still has me smilin'

Patti

lark6 · July 2001

myfirstsube: That puts me about 45 minutes SSE from you. I've been rotating every 8K and recently did my 3rd - just went over 25K miles this weekend. I had a puncture on the way back from Phila. Airport about 6 weeks ago and replaced one Geolandar - a little bummed as I was hoping to replace all four at once with something different, like a Dunlop SPSport 5000.

You must have bought yours from Becker; they're well respected on this and other boards when it comes to sales and service - more so than the dealers in Bucks and Montgomery Counties. I may go there when the time comes to buy another Subaru.

Enjoy!

Ed

ateixeira · July 2001

I had almost forgotten! Shake those hips!

<
>
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>

:-)

-juice

rochcom · July 2001

SERVICING MY SUBARU

8500 Miles
I: My Clutch Vibrates.
Them: Normal.
I: Illinois? I thought Subies were made in Indiana or Japan.
Them: Consider it a feature -- free foot massage.

30k Miles
I: My clutch chatters when cold.
Them: Cannot duplicate.
I: Maybe you should buy a Xerox.

36k Miles
I: Still chattering when cold.
Them: Leave overnight.

Next Day
I: Well?
Them: We heard it. But we wouldn't do anything at this time.
I: What do you mean? With all that chattering, I think its trying to tell us something.
Them: Our teeth do the same thing when we are cold.

48k Miles
I: The clutch is STILL chattering, Now doing it when warm. Starting to chatter between 1-2 and 2-3 shifts.
Them: We have to tear it apart to see what'ts up.
I (Clutching my wallet): Will Subaru cover that under warranty?
Them: We won't know until we get it apart. If not, you pay.
I: How much to tear it apart?
Them: Almost as much as the entire repair labor.
I: Can't you call Subaru to authorize it?
Them: Only the service manager can do that, but he's on vacation.
I (having a litle pun at THEIR expense, or will it be mine): Trying
to avoid the chattering of customers, I presume.

49k Miles.
I: Chatter, chatter, chatter.
Them: Cease that infernal chatter. We'll cover it. But you have to pay for the pad.
I: You meant the lining?
Them: Same thing. Either way we line our pockets.
I: Well, I hope you don't pad the bill.

Later
I: Done?
Them: Yes, and we coverd it in full. No charge.
I (Charging out of there): Finally, thanks.

Start Car -- Drive
I: Rats! No foot massage. Anyone know of something in the aftermarket?

ateixeira · July 2001

he he he!

Must've been the weak pressure plate. Glad you finally got it replaced.

-juice

bat1161 · July 2001

Juice: It has happened when the vents are open, with circulation set to recirculate rather than fresh to help cool the car off faster. I don't remember if it has happened with the air set to fresh, but that shouldn't matter, should it? It is also only at highway speeds, and even then not every time. I was trying to hear if it happened on my drive home yesterday, so of course it didn't! I'll try to keep an ear open for it this weekend when I travel down to Philly.
Thanks,
Mark

ateixeira · July 2001

I'm trying to think of what would make a "groan" sound. Power steering pump, maybe? Doesn't match your symptoms, though.

Maybe it's the A/C compressor?

-juice

paisan · July 2001

Could be a leaf in the blower, or vaccum controled flaps. I know there are a lot of flaps that are vaccum controlled and sometimes (don't ask me how) leaves work their way down into there and can casue these problems.

-mike

ateixeira · July 2001

Could be. Check in the cowl area, use a vacuum even to get any debris out. You can combine the vacuum with the vents at full blast to clean the interior vents.

-juice

bat1161 · July 2001

Thanks guys.
I can't see it being the power steering pump since it only seems to happen when I first start out at highway speeds. I figure if it was the compressor I would be hearing it more often as well. I'll try the vacuming tonight when I get home.

Mark

bluesubie · July 2001

Sounds similar to my clutch squeak dealer hassles. Lasted thousand of miles and didn't bother opening the tranny until after the warranty expired. Tried to charge me $1200 for a new clutch and told me it would be another $800 if I didn't resurface the flywheel soon.

Phone calls to SoA and a meeting with the District Service Manager took care of that!

Actually, I kinda miss the squeak too. It gave my car character. I even got it on videotape.

Dennis

kens · July 2001

Jeff,

Glad to hear that SOA covered your clutch under warranty. Your profile shows that you own a 98 Subaru -- which model in particular?

Ken

rochcom · July 2001

It's a '98 Forester S. By the way, the new clutch makes the pedal feel lighter and it engages more consistently. However, it doesn't feel very solid. Maybe it needs to break in a bit.

kens · July 2001

Jeff,

Ah, then you are in the same boat as myself. Had the same repair done on my 98 S too. It doesn't feel like it, but your pressure plate is now clamping down much harder.

The clutch pedal will get heavier over time, BTW. It was explained to me that as the clutch breaks in, you'll naturally get more friction from "stuff" building up in the fluid and lubricants.

Ken

ateixeira · July 2001

I actually like the light pedal feel. It's far less tiring.

-juice

billj137 · July 2001

Has anyone experienced the timimg chain failure that I just did with 995 miles on my new Bean? They want to swap the engine. I want a new car.

ateixeira · July 2001

Holy Cow! No way, that's the first I've ever heard on a chain (rather than belt). That is a pretty freak occurance.

If it's an interference design you could have some seriously damanged pistons, valves, even cylinder liners and crank.

As long as they replace everything past the tranny, it should be OK.

I still can't get over a chain breaking like that. How bizarre!

-juice

locke2c · July 2001

The chain could have failed or one of the tensioners could failed. Either way it's death to the valvetrain and major damage to the pistons. Nothing else should have been hurt.

Other than the delay in repairs though I see no reason for a new car. This is a freak accident (or gross negligence, at any rate it's rare) and a brand new engine will fix it just the same as a brand new car.

If they can't fix it posthaste though I see your point-- it's uncool to be without such a new vehicle for an extended time. Maybe if they gave you a loaner just like it?

-Colin

kens · July 2001

Yeah, a chain breaking, especially at that mileage, is definetly a freak incident. I've also never heard of it. I understand how disappointed you would feel with such a brand new car. As Colin said, a new engine should take care of it.

I'd express my concern to the dealer to make sure you're taken care of during the repair.

Ken

subaru_team · July 2001

Wow - this is a first for me - and I read a lot of cases. I'm really sorry.

If you get a chance, give us a call at 1-800-SUBARU3 so we can stay on top of the situation and make sure things move quickly and to your satisfaction. Please tell the Representative that you speak with that I would like to see your case.

Thanks!

Patti

nygreg · July 2001

I guess these engines are interference. Not sure I ever got a definite answer on that.

Greg

locke2c · July 2001

I am pretty sure they are. There is just about no way a DOHC engine could be anything else because when the cams can move independently that often enables valves to smack each other...

maybe there is sufficient quench area so that the piston can't hit the valves at full lift no matter when it happens, but the valves will probably foul on each other.

-Colin

pattim3 · July 2001

Colin scores! They are interference engines in the H-6.

Patti

myfirstsube · July 2001

Too bad about about your tire. I picked up a small panel nail in the tread about 6 months ago.
It made it through and was repaired with a patch.
I had the dealer do it. I do not trust anyone else yet with the aluminum wheels.

You guessed correctly, I bought at Becker. It was a good experience. Also was not used to being able to arange a loaner every time I asked for one. At the Ford dealerships I have never been able to get a loaner in the past. We really are enjoying this car. Had it 15 months.

Ed

anthony_cheng · July 2001

Any suggestions on brands of gasoline for the new Subaru I purchased?

Its my understanding that gas is gas, but the additives are what makes the brand names different from each other.

anthony_cheng · July 2001

The manual indicates that for the first 1000 miles, you should not drive at the same speed for a "long" time...

What is considered long?

Just wondering if I should make a 50 mile trip from San Jose to Oakland.

armac13 · July 2001

there is no reason for you to not make a 50 mile trip. Every minute or two try to increase or decrease the revs, at least a little. You would be better off *NOT* maintaining the exact same speed (like in cruise control) for the entire journey. Can't help you with gas brands, I'm Canadian. :~)

Ross

rochcom · July 2001

Having had a disastrous experience with my '89 Saab, I inquired of Subaru whether their engines were interference or not. The answer I received was that the DOHC engines WERE, but the SOHC engines were NOT. I further inquired as to belt change requirements on the 4 cylinder DOHCs. The answer is below.

Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site, and for your inquiries. 1.
The engine in your '98 Forester is a an interference type engine.
Damage will occur to your engine if the timing belt breaks. 2. If you
have a Federal Spec. vehicle, we recommend that the timing belt be
replaced at the 60,000 mile service interval. If you have a California
Spec. vehicle, we recommend that the timing belt be replaced at the
105,000 mile service interval.

If you do not know what spec. your '98 Forester is, please contact us
again with your VIN, and we will advise you. Best wishes!!

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.

I sent them my VIN and was told that mine was a CA spec engine. I thought this odd, since I live in upstate New York. I will probably change it earlier, since my Owner's Manual says 90,000.

bluesubie · July 2001

Anthony - We recently had a big fuel discussion a little while ago. Too bad this board is virtually un-searchable. :-)

In my experience, I was able to tell a slight difference in some brands and a big difference in others. Fuel formulations vary by region so your car can run great on brand X in your state and run not so great with the same gas in other state or even another part of the same state.

I tried about 3 tanks of each major brand when I searched. Personally, I use Sunoco around home and Amoco or Exxon if I can't find it on trips.

My car definately doesn't like Hess, Texaco or Getty, but I've heard other people say these brands work great in their cars.
Good luck and have fun sampling.

Jeff - Maybe upstate cars don't have NY emissions. Could that only be near NYC? If you still have your window sticker it should be on that.

Dennis

zscottie · July 2001

I drive a Subaru 98 Legacy CT Limited I/ a 2.5 liter engine, and 48k miles. I noticed that when I start the car in the morning, there's a knocking noise coming from the engine compartment... the knocking gets faster as I increase in speed. I've also noticed that if I press on the gas pedal quickly after putting the transmission in "Drive" there's a momentarily loss in engine power. Otherwise, the car is fine on my daily commute, and my various weekend trips.

The last time I heard this knocking-type noise was in Dec. 99, when I had about 20K on the car. The Subaru dealer said my alternator went bad. It was replaced under warranty. I hope it's not that again...

I called the dealer yesterday, and told them my problem. The service advisor said there are probably carbon deposits in my engine valves, and would need a "top engine cleaning?" Is this something that costs alot? Can this be resolved I/ a fuel additive? The dealer said they perform this on vehicles @ the 30K service mark. That wasn't done on my car I/I I took it elsewhere for that service.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

evilizard · July 2001

Probably an injectory and throttle body flush. They use an areosol as opposed to a liquid. Costs around $120 or so at my local dealership.

paisan · July 2001

Are required to be CA-emissions compliant.

-mike

miksmi · July 2001

You might try a bottle of Chevron Techron (not Pro Gard, which is a diluted version of Techron) and see if that helps.

..Mike

kens · July 2001

Andrew,

Does the knocking noise go away once the engine is warmed up? If so, what you might have is piston slap. The MY97-98 engines use a skirtless piston that can sometimes cause the piston to hit the cylinder walls when the tolerances are too big. I'd ask your dealer to look into this possibility.

Ken

nygreg · July 2001

If the SOHC (i.e. 2.5L H4) is non-interference and DOHC (i.e. H6 and 2.0L- read WRX) are interference, then doesn't the 98 Forester have the 2.5L and thus it is non-interference? Patti - not to harp on this subject, but, is the 2.5L H4 engine used in the new Foresters and OBs non-intereference and thus will not be harmed by a broken belt? Colin? All that typing last night screwed up my head....and fingers!

Thanks, Greg

armac13 · July 2001

were DOHC, thus interference engines. The change over was in 1999 (?) to the SOHC.

Ross

mrdetailer · July 2001

Why should be the interval be so much longer on a California Standards vehicle?

If the engine is interference, why would anyone risk going over 60,000?

My only complaint about my 1991 is that it chews the timing belt every 17,000 miles. However, it is a non-interference engine, and just stops.

armac13 · July 2001

standard vehicles have heavier duty belts IIRC. Don't ask me why.

Ross

bluesubie · July 2001

Ken - I thought if the noise went away after warm-up, it was considered normal.

I'm getting a little concerned because my wife's 99 OB lease is almost up and she wants to buy it. She has the tap occasionally and it goes away after warm-up. Of course this will never happen at the dealer and she's at over 50,000 miles. I would hate it if problems came after the Powertrain Warranty expired.

Then there's the head gasket issue.

juice or anyone - Are you concerned about these problems?

Dennis

evilizard · July 2001

Just got through looking at the maintence booklet that came with my 96 OB, 2.5L
For both california and non california vehicals the scheadule was inspect at 60 and replace at 105.

On on the 2L engine it was replace at 60.

kens · July 2001

Dennis,

When I had piston slap, I thought the noise went away after the engine warmed up. When I had an experienced tech listen to it, he could still detect it even after the engine had warmed up. The noise was most prominent when the engine was revving down from around 4K RPM.

Just my opinion, but I don't think any kind of slap could be good. It's being caused by the piston hitting the inside of the cylinder walls. The tech did explain that they're familiar with this characteristic and that engines they've torn into at 100K miles showed no damage, but I wasn't satisfied. I ended up having my pistons replaced with ones machined to tighter tolerances.

I don't want to get you paranoid. What you have may not be piston slap. I just wanted to let you know of a possibility and that there is a work around.

Ken

bluesubie · July 2001

I'll definately mention it to the dealer on the next trip. My new dealer is always well aware of any problem that appears regularly. My wife and I are both coming up on a 60k service within the next couple of months.

Someone also just posted this on the i-club. A reply posted this scoobynet recording of piston slap (I'll have to check this out at home).

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/Forum9/HTML/002674.html

Dennis

crashton6 · July 2001

I read somewhere that the only reason that Califoria cars have a 105,000 change for their timing belts is that it's part of the CA emission laws. If Subaru or any other auto maker said to change the belt at say 60,000 then they'd have to do it under warranty in CA. My Miata is the same way CA 105,000, everywhere else 60,000. I don't believe that they use heavy duty timing belts in CA. Can someone check part numbers for us? Patti? If there is a heavy duty one I know which one I'd buy.

Chuck

kens · July 2001

Dennis,

Yeah, I saw that link too. The key to hearing it is, again, when the RPMs are falling. You can get a good sample of it on the 6th rev on that sound clip. There's a distinct rattling noise which I'm sure is the slap.

Ken

paisan · July 2001

98 RS had DOHC 2.5L Engine
99 RS had SOHX 2.5l Engine
99->95/96 Legacys had DOHC 2.5l Engine (unless they had 2.2l engine)
00->present Legacies and OBs have 2.5 SOHC Engines (unless H6 3.0l)
9x->99 Foresters IIRC had 2.5l DOHC 00->present Foresters have 2.5L SOHC

-mike

armac13 · July 2001

The present Foresters have the SOHC 2.5L! Otherwise I think you are correct.

Ross

kens · July 2001

Mike,

Almost right except that only the 98 Forester has the DOHC engine. The Forester/Impreza RS have been sharing the same drivetrain/engine layout since they were introduced.

Ken

ateixeira · July 2001

I had heard the interval for my belt was 105k also, with an inspection at 90k. Darlene confirmed that, and she's in TN, pretty far from CA. That was for the DOHC Phase I engine.

I'll probably just do the swap at 90k. May as well if you're going to pay for the labor to check it.

I advanced the timing on my Miata a couple of weeks ago. It is adjusted manuall on the 1993 models. OEM spec is 10 degrees BTDC, and I took it to 14.

It had never knocked before, and doesn't now under normal operation, but there was once that I forgot it was still in 5th gear after I had slowed considerably. When I hit the gas, it knocked like a woodpecker.

Pretty interesting, a driver error that I imagine you quickly learn not to repeat.

-juice

paisan · July 2001

The subaru brakes in '88 rocked! I just pulled my fronts off and the rears on the XT6. One side of the rears was gone, like down to the metal almost. They were the original rear pads @ nearly 80K miles. The fronts I'm assuming were replaced at least once, cause they have about 1/2 life left on them, and they have aprox. 30K of paisan miles on them with about 10 auto-xs under them as well. It took about 10 minutes for each side on the brakes, and overall about 1hr from start to finish with a tire rotation in there. EBC is also trying to get me some Green Stuff or Red Stuff pads that will fit, since they don't have an application for the XT6.

-mike

crawdadking · July 2001

What does the acronym "IIRC" stand for?
TIA, Guy

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