Vibe Maintenance & Repair Concerns

tnlandsailor · January 2004

I was considering an XRS 6 speed in the near future and was set on a 2003 model to save $$. After reading some of the repair concerns, I am reconsidering. Are any of the problems listed on this thread addressed or fixed on 2004 models, i.e. leaking roofs, catalytic converters, undershifter compartment? I've even heard on other forums that the clutch on the XRS just doesn't cut it. Anybody have any insight here?

loudog2 · January 2004

Laurie30 I have noticed this happening in my 2004 xr 4wd. When I took the car through the carwash I noticed water dripping from the passenger side. I think I will ride through the carwash with the car next time to see where it is coming from. Looks like the window seal or the rubber seal in the upper door.

nippononly · January 2004

Having driven the new Mazda3 and the current Civic SI very recently, in addition to a brand new Matrix XRS I was considering, I have to say the shifter in the Matrix was the worst of the three, and is also worse than Toyota's own celica GTS, which I have also driven and which is where the six-speed in the Matrix comes from. The clutch is wonderful in the Honda, but is long and vague in the Mazda...I would say the Matrix's clutch is halfway in between.

The undershifter compartment is a little flimsy - I know, because I have the same one in my Matrix. It is a case of Toyota wanting to provide so many storage compartments that they cheaped out a little on each individual one. The flip side is there is an awful lot of storage in this thing!

My roof has never leaked, and the gauges on the '04 are more readable (due to the substitution of some other colors for part of the red display), although the all-red gauges in my '03 have grown on me since the early days before I had the twilight sensor fixed (prior to which they were flashing bright/dim/bright all day long).

Not aware of cat issues on this model, unless you mean the sulfur smell some have experienced. In California we already have the low sulfur gas, so that has not been an issue for me or most folks over here.

sandhog2 · January 2004

this is to the guy with the clutch problem your don't ride the clutch.Have a 04 AWD Vibe only problem was poor OE tires .Replced them with BF Goodrich winter slaloms. great car for the snow

clyde2000 · January 2004

I know it's been awhile since the original post, but I too have the problem of that compartment opening by itself in my Vibe.

Funny thing is on the drive home from work, it always happens at the same place on a left turn. I'm thinking about just glueing the thing shut since I don't even use it....

canadaodyowner · January 2004

please see:

03corollace "Toyota Corolla Owners: Problems & Solutions" Jan 29, 2004 1:41pm

derosa · February 2004

I took my Matrix to Toyota today since it was raining to show them that the sunroof leaks and the dealer told me that was normal??? I also looked at a Vibe and it had the same issue. Leaks at the rear passenger side. You might check yours out when it rains.

nippononly · February 2004

not leaking into the car, right?

derosa · February 2004

You can see water leaking into the car around the seals. Water never gets to the headliner. About a drip per minute. Since it was raining today, I showed the service manager. Quoted, "it's normal to leak some since there are drip rails around the sunroof hardware". Huh? I've had many of cars with sunroofs and this is a first. Since there are no TSB on this issue, it might just take a few of you to check your vehicle out. I have opened a case with Toyota on this issue.

darisrob · February 2004

Has anyone seen this. I'm told GM is baffled..?

I start my car (and it does start) the front headlights do not come on, the service engine, and service oil lights come on, if I put in gear(ie reverse) the car does not engage. It's as if I'm locked out of the car. If I then turn the car off, and then back on I can get it to work just fine. I've been told the computer is not recording this, and I haven't been able to get it to happen at the dealership..

Any help would be appreciated..

Thanks..

nippononly · February 2004

my moonroof's seals look like they fill the space without leaking, and from below there is certainly no visual evidence that water is coming through the seals. If it were, it WOULD reach the headliner.

Sun/moonroofs DO have drain holes in their frames so that if water does get in there, from an open roof in the rain or merely from opening the roof with water still standing on it, that water can drain out. However, it is not supposed to leak and drain when it is fully closed. At least, that has been my experience with multiple Toyota and Honda vehicles with sun/moonroofs (including my current Matrix).

derosa · February 2004

If you look at my earlier posts about the leaky sunroof, I noticed that it does it on the Vibe too! Since a coworker has an 04 Vibe, we checked it out on a raining day and yes the Vibe leaks too. Same sunroof, same maker. If you have a sunroof, open the headliner, look at the seals around the sunroof when inside the car and you will see water drops coming from the seals when it's raining. Like I said earlier, Dealer says it's normal and unless it's hitting the headliner don't worry.

richyoung · February 2004

I am at a loss. I have called two dealerships in Chicago, and the service departments seem a bit elusive with this issue:

Have an AWD '03 Vibe - I love it. However, the MPG in the city is about 18/19. This is quite a difference to the estimate of 26. Service is telling me that it is the fuel that we use in Chicago, and the cold, etc. I can understand a 3 or so MPG difference, but 8? They said that if the Check Engine does not flash, everything is OK.

I bought this used (one owner) in November of '03 with 6400 miles on it. I now have about 7500 miles on it.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

herzogtum71 · February 2004

I believe Chicago uses MTBE as a fuel additive for air pollution reasons, same as we do in Massachusetts. Our AWD Matrix in this cold weather has been getting between 23.5 mpg and 26.5 mpg over the last 10 tankfulls. Lots of short trips, as my wife drives it 4.5 miles to work each day, and back of course. Also some short highway trips of 15 miles or less. Unless you spend a lot of time stuck in traffic or waiting for stoplights, I'd say 18-19 mpg is low enough that the dealers should look for a cause.

jmcknight2 · February 2004

- My '03 Vibe AWD gets around 5 mpg less in winter here in N. IL. I drive very conservatively, and have gotten 30 in the summer on long trips, but average maybe 26 in summer and 20 - 21 in winter ( lower in town, of course )

richyoung · February 2004

I drive it about 1.5 miles to the train and then back - plus some time around town during the weekends. The two responses so far offer at least pause to think. Seems like there is quite a discrepancy still. I bought this from a dealer - it is Certified.

One service manager told me to drive it a bit on the highway and then check mileage (of course, that is not my normal situation!). I figure that highway will give me better.

Just not sure if I should pursue it now or wait till weather breaks (in Chicago that would be mid-June!).

Thanks for the input - any other ideas? :-)

hudrahead · February 2004

derosa:
Have a 2003 Vibe. I live in Florida. We have rain here, lots and lots of rain. My sunroof does not leak, never did even in near hurricane force driven rain. Any service mgr. that says"they all do that" is indeed "all wet" LOL !! Make 'em FIX IT !!!! Good luck.

HUD

:)

herzogtum71 · February 2004

The 1.5 mile trips would be a factor. Cold engines definitely use more gas.

richyoung · February 2004

Thanks, herzogtum71 - that makes sense - but allow me to add a wrinkle:

I did this same type of driving with my 92 Olds 98, 126,000miles, 6 cylinder - and got similar results (17/18). Now, I admit that was from May to November, so I take it that when you mean cold engine, you mean "COLD" engine?

Thanks,
Rich

herzogtum71 · February 2004

Back in the dark ages when I was learning to drive, the driving instructors claimed that you needed to drive about 10 miles before the car's engine would be fully warmed up. The colder the engine, the more gas is used because the engine needs a richer mix of fuel. I would guess this still is true with today's engines, though the "10 miles" figure no doubt is arbitrary. Why not 8 miles, or 12 miles?

The COLDER the temperature, too, the more gas is needed. The car I normally drive is a '94 Corolla wagon, and from my records I notice a drop in gas mileage of about 3 mpg when I compare in-town tanks in August versus January. A friend of mine with a Chrysler minivan claims the difference with that engine (6 cylinder) is more like 6 or 7 mpg summer versus winter.

richyoung · February 2004

Thanks herzogtum71! I guess the service guys weren't being evasive (or even elusive!). This makes sense to me. I will wait to see how things go in the summer. If mileage hasn't changed by June/July, I will have a little heart-to-heart with the service tech.

Thanks again!
Rich

thel · February 2004

the little temp guage gets above "C". I figure the engine is warmed up by then...

tommyg12 · February 2004

Since the South East forecast called for heavy rain last night and today, I left my '04 Matrix out of the garage overnight to "test" for sunroof leakage. When I checked this morning there was no evidence of leakage around the seals. Even after running several errands today, still no leakage. I just cannot believe that a leaking sunroof would be considered normal. I would try a different dealer.

richyoung · February 2004

that is true - unfortuntately, by the time it gets to over C, I am parked and ready to get out of the car. I try to let it run a bit after I park as well, to at least get it warm (to what purpose? your guess is as good as mine - probably just trying to work backwards!). Anyway, I am seeing the logic in the 1.5 miles and cold weather really banging my mileage. Appreciate the conversation of what is probably a very simple subject.

Rich

sandhog2 · February 2004

It's been -15 to 20 since new years the wife's AWD Vibe has been averaging 28mpg or better .She let's it warm up about 10 minutes in the morning and most trips are 5 miles orless.Getting about 32 mpg. hwy.

richyoung · February 2004

well, sandhog2, I am now going to reconsider my wait and see plan...I don't mean to perseverate on this issue, but one of the main reasons I got this was for the MPG. So maybe I should just bring it in and tell them to "fix it" - and let them do what needs to be done....or maybe I am just too cheap and should be satisfied for now....

I am using 87 octane - should I kick it up a notch? (even though the VIBE is supposed to be fine with regular)

thel · February 2004

I doubt that you will see any mpg gains by merely increasing the octane of your gas. The regular Matrix was made to use 87 so use 87.

lefty1957 · February 2004

I'm looking to purchase an '04 Vibe before the end of Feb. and am strongly interested in the monotone paint pkg option as well as the moon and toons option. I'm somewhat apprehensive now after reading previous comments on excessive chipping on the rear fascia and the moon/sunroof leaking. Has anyone that has recently purchased an '04 Vibe experienced these problems? I hate the look of the car w/o the monotone and I want a roof! Please help!

lefty1957 · February 2004

Also, has anyone purchased the protection package with the side air baqs and theft system?
I'm wondering if this is a financially sound injury/death prevention purchase option?

Thanks!

thel · February 2004

There are issues with ANY model of car. Most of the gripes you refer to are REALLY minor things that IMO should not disuade you from purchasing a Vibe. No car is going to be perfect....especially one for less than $20k.

pontiacvibe · February 2004

You said
"Also, has anyone purchased the protection package with the side air baqs and theft system?
I'm wondering if this is a financially sound injury/death prevention purchase option?"

It is a total waste of money unless you happen to need it. It is a question that no one can answer but you. If you want to apply RISK assessment, the probablity of needing the airbag is relatively low, but the consequence of not having the airbag can be very high.

As for me, I could afford it and I felt much better having the option, so I got it. However, I had to search very hard to find one. Local dealer did a transfer for me, so at the end it all worked out. BTW, I would have gotten the side airbags only if I could have.

tommyg12 · February 2004

Read my post #179. The monsoon in my area continues and I have driven over 100 miles in the last two days, no sunroof leakage. Modern factory installed sunroofs should not leak, plain and simple. There has to be a misalignment of the roof and/or the seals.

tommyg12 · February 2004

On the flip side I might eat my words as far as not having a problem. You guys with sunroofs try this: while sitting in the car with dim or dark surroundings, shine a flashlight along the rear seal. I can see a stream of light on my passenger side rear corner (bingo, just what you guys were saying)! How I haven't had a leak yet I have no idea. Heck, I can stand outside, open the passenger door, reach in and stick my hand along the rear of the roof and see my finger!! I will be at the dealer asap tomorrow, this is unacceptable! My dealer has an excellent service department having always been honest and caring, so I will post their response as soon as I leave. I never doubted you owners with leaks at all, and just stand behind that no factory installed sunroof should leak. Hopefully there is a resolution.

tommyg12 · February 2004

While I'm on a roll and it's raining so hard, I started looking around all of the doors and in the rear hatch for other leaks. Found water running in on the right rear driver's side tail light access panel. This might be something the rest of you want to check. Hopefully these are all minor problems that are easily resolved, but I'm starting to feel that this car is not up to typical Toyota standards.

tommyg12 · February 2004

"The sunroof seal is in spec. The seal is not supposed to be airtight. Water will sometimes drip into the rain channel. If water ever gets into the car or is noticed on the headliner, then there is a problem."

There were a couple of 'Trixs on the lot. It was still raining and the dealer gave me the keys to both while the tech was looking at mine. Both cars were dripping.

Also, I checked with one of the Yahoo groups that is moderated by four Toyota technicians, and they all agree with my dealer.

katrich · February 2004

Listen to this..I also have had problems with my 2004 Vibe. The sunroof is leaking and the paint starting coming off under the driver's side door when I was washing it at the carwash. I took the Vibe into my dealer who kept it overnight to check the sunroof. They could not fix it and told me they would have to order another sunroof. They told me that they would have to special order one and it would probably be months and have to be made for me. They put a paper towel under the leak. The service manager also told me when I came to pick it up that he had gotten a bulletin from the manufactor that they were having problems with the Vibe sunroof leaking and didn't know of a fix.

Does that mean that if I am out in my car and it starts to raining that it will continue to leak until I get home into the garage? What if I didn't have a garage?

Today is when I washed it and the paint started peeling back. I have already had to take it back so that the bumper could be painted. They had to repain the whole bumper. Wonder what they will say when I go by there tomorrow. I am not happy, I know that. I went to trade it last week and my $21,000 Vibe with 6100 miles was only worth $11,000 trade-in on a $27,000 car. I owe $18,000 on it. So, I wonder what to do at this point. Any suggestions? I think I could probably say I had a lemon. TN has a lemon law. I am considering it. Plan on talking to my attorney tomorrow.

thel · February 2004

No good way to get out of this situation I'm afraid. It's too bad, these aren't bad cars, but a few bugs can ruin the whole experience.

Is yours a Vibe GT or a regular one? Unfortunately for you, the Vibe's resale isn't as high as the Matrix b/c GM is into the huge cash rebate thing. That said, it sounds like you could do a whole lot better on trade than $11,000 once the car is fixed by the dealer.

I would suggest being patient, getting the car fixed up and then, if you're still PO'd, try selling the car to Carmax. They usually do much better than the dealers do.

tommyg12 · February 2004

Do you have water actually getting into the car and/or headliner? Or is the water dripping in the back and running out through the rain channel under the car?

rog96 · February 2004

Does anyone know how to treat this condition? (03 Vibe with 12k mi. and always garaged) Going to call dealer, hope the fix is under warranty ...

nippononly · February 2004

venting the A/C for a couple of minutes before you park it for long periods of time. Do this by running with 'fresh' rather than 'recirc'. Do it occasionally during your driving too.

montanafan · February 2004

Could also clean/replace the filter in the system. Might be something there causing the smell.

howard1314 · February 2004

My 2003 Matrix, 11 months old with 20000 km on it, needs a new clutch and flywheel --- really expensive! As expected the dealer is blaming the driver, says there is a big round burn mark on the flywheel; how can I argue that? I have smelled burning rubber on this car and the 2000 COROLLA i HAD, was told it was nothing; now I am wondering?? Have driven 10 manual transmission cars since 1980, not one needed a clutch to be replaced... I am wondering if the way the Matrix reacts and/or its design cause the driver to drive in a certain way? Anyway, anybody have any ideas about approaching Toyota to argue for the powertrain warranty? I think that I should expect reasonable durability in a new car, no matter the way it has been driven???

nippononly · February 2004

the powertrain warranty might specifically exclude the clutch, considered a "wear item". But as long as the car has not been raced, I would try some sweet-talking, and ask to speak to the district rep if the dealership people aren't sympathetic.

thel · February 2004

I can sense the clutch in my Matrix is doomed to an early demise. Every time I ride it even a little (backing up slowly for example) I get that burning smell....argghhh.

thel · February 2004

I changed the oil in my Matrix last night. Piece of cake really. The oil filter is easy to reach, but it does "point" straight down so upon removing it I got fairly well doused in old oil on my arm. I filled it up with just under 5 qts. of Castrol 5W30 "hard driving" dino oil with no worries.

I did have to do the old spear the old filter with the screwdriver maneuver to remove the old filter and I had to pop a couple of plastic screws on the cover doo-dad under the filter to get my arm in there for leverage but it was still pretty easy overall. Much easier than my Miata was. I never even attempted it in any of my Hondas....oh the horror.... But it wasn't as easy as my F150 was (oil filter right there in the wheel well of all things:) ).

mcdawgg · February 2004

When changing the filter, just unscrew it very slowly when you get to the end of the threads until the oil just starts to run out. Then let it leak for a minute or so, then finish removing it with a paper towel wrapped around it. I used to get an arm full of oil, but now I just get a few drops and/or a smear of oil on my hand.
Another example of Toyota's smart design: easy oil changes! My mechanic friend always says that Toyotas are the easiest to work on and they are the most reliable. I agree with you - Hondas are a nightmare to change.

thel · February 2004

But I wore some old baseball gloves instead of using paper towels. I'll try that in the future. The filter didn't have all that much oil in it but it can make a mess if you're not prepared for it.

herzogtum71 · February 2004

alfredmi -- back in January (posts 142-144) you said you were getting your catalytic converter replaced. Did that take care of your burning smell?

deg856 · March 2004

You know, I thought all of you who said the moonroof leaked were crazy. How could it? Well, got my XR w/ moonroof two days ago. It was raining this morning, so I open the headliner on the freeway and took a look. Guess what - I saw a slow drip from the right rear corner of the moonroof. Since a few have reported checking with the dealers and were told that this was normal, I'm not worried at this point. (It's great to have a forum like this.) We also have a Sienna w/ moonroof but I never thought of checking for leaks. It'll be interesting to see if the Sienna does this.

San Jose, CA

carbonni · March 2004

I am concerned about my new 04 Vibe's engine idle noise: when at operating temperature (low idle - 800 rpm) I can hear clearly a metallic noise coming from the engine area. It sounds like a rapid tapping noise (6-8 times/second). When I press the gas pedal, it goes away, but it returns next time the engine is at low idle. I can hear it from inside the car. Yesterday I opened the hood, and it seemed to be coming from the upper part of the engine (like when something was hitting the engine cover - but I felt no unusual vibration when touching the engine cover). When listening below the engine's top (in front of the radiator), I could not hear the noise - it seemed to propagate upwards from the engine.
The dealer says it's normal for this engine, but I wonder if anybody else is experiencing the same problem. I have never seen a diesel engine, but that is how I imagine such an engine would sound. Also, I have not seen similar complaints on the Corolla boards, so I wonder if it's really an engine characteristic or something else.

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Vibe Maintenance & Repair Concerns