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2003 Saab 9-3
The new 9-3 has an interesting new look and an all-new chassis, does anybody think it will be good enough to compete with the 3 Series and Audi's A4?
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I doubt that any true Beemerhead is going to accept a fwd as a real competitor no matter how good the performance.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Magneto: There is an article in TheCarconnection today where a Saab exec attempts to explain how the new 9-3 will not hurt 9-5 sales. Basically, he claims the additional luxury options on the 9-5 will suffice. The article did not even say when a 9-5 will be on the new Epsilon platform. I do not see how the new 9-3 cannot hurt 9-5 sales.
The 9-5 is still slightly larger inside, and comes with the V6 instead of the 4.
I guess the 9-3 will somewhat cannabalize the 9-5, but probably no worse than the Volvo S60 cannabalizes S80 sales.
1. Will have reduced understeer than previous models but still an issue
2. Will be underpowered compared to competition (175 hp and 200 hp engines offered???!!!!)
3. Brand identity and uncertainty may still be an issue.
Also, the chasis is based off the Chevy Malibu platform (Car and Drive and Road and Track).
A Maxima can blow away this car for a much lesser price!
It's based on the new GM Epsilon platform, which it will also share with Opel/Vauxhall, and future Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Saturn models.
I could not believe it myself when I read it. I had to do a double-take.
By WES RAYNAL
The Opel Vectra GTS looks nice inside and out, and is a good drive. The Epsilon platform should help GM's midsize cars in the States.
"OPEL HAS FIRED OFF A SECOND salvo in the midsize class product offensive it began in the spring, in the form of a new and tempting sports model, the coupe-style Vectra GTS sport sedan. This exceptionally dynamic..." So begins the new Vectra GTS press materials. Exaggerated maybe, but the new Opel Vectra (and Saab 9-3 and more) is an important car for GM; or at least the Vectra rides on an extremely important platform, the midsize Epsilon platform.
The Epsilon platform is a structure Opel and Saab developed jointly that some of GM's best-selling cars will ride on, including the 2004 Chevrolet Malibu, 2004 Pontiac Grand Am and the 2004 (or '05) Saturn L. Further, there will be a future Cadillac on Epsilon, as well as a few Holdens in Australia. In all, the architecture will eventually account annually for some 1.2 million GM cars worldwide—a big number in a market in which GM needs better products to become more competitive with the Primeras, Accords, Camrys and Mondeos of the world.
"The car is based on the GM Epsilon platform that will also see duty as the Opel Vectra and Chevrolet Malibu, "
Base will have 175 hp engine. Top of the line will be a 210 hp engine.
Still underpowered compared to its competition. I know it is a turbo 4, but still.
Audi A4 1.8T - 170hp
Audi A4 3.0 - 220hp
BMW 325i - 184hp
BMW 330i - 225hp
MB C240 - 168hp
MB C320 - 215hp
The G35 and the Type-S TL have 260hp.
DL
DL
Also, I though the Saturn L had a rather stiff chassis? I could be wrong.
dl7256: I think the consumers sophisticated enough to even know what chasis is under their car are also sophisticated enough to know that while a good chasis is an important start, but not the only thing that makes a car good. For instance, dweeby teenagers show a surprising nack for tuning the old wishbone based Civics into Porsche beaters.
DL
A G35 starts a little over $27K.
It is when you start adding the extras.
An I35 and a TL come fully loaded (leather, auto everything, stereo, etc.)
Another words, just because it starts at $25K does not mean its real world (with common options) will end up at $25K
I think Saab's strength is its difference, and I am not sure positioning themelves smack in the square of the industry standards with 2 4-door sedans is a good idea. I think a more avantgarde update of the hatchback theme would have made them more successful, especially now that cars like the Merc C230 are validating the concept for the $30k+ market.
If you get too industry-conform, at some point in time buyers will forget about the "brand values" you originally had, and will simply compare you 1:1 against the competition... and I am not sure people will pick a Saab over a BMW, Merc, Lex or Audi then... not because there is anything wrong with the car, but rather because it takes a while for the public to internalize the new value proposition...
Ciao,
Larry
overall they praise the new car, other than saying the engine dose not feel like 175 hp and not quite as smooth as the old Saab motor.
DL
i belive starting with the platform the new 9 3 will prove to be much more substantial.As they point out the question is has too much Saab been removed from the car ?, and how will it stand out in the crowd. However even Saab faithful cant be too disapointed in most of the torque steer being removed.....
At 25k and change for a model with standard leather looks like the pricepoint will be a major selling point.
Regards,
DL
It will be interesting to see how the 9-3 does in the reliability department. heck, I believe the 9-5 uses a GM V6 and has proven to be very reliable.
Also, many magazines are quoting the Saab starting at just over $26K (Car and Drive, Edmunds). This will put it in direct competition with a G35 (though more standard features).
anyways i know myself, and Mr Shipo on this board had a early production 328i only had a light bulb burn out in three years of ownership.
but back to the topic at hand, as a car enthusiast i hope the 9 3 succeds. 9 3 vs a G35, o my dont want to debate that one, but im sure someone will start a thread.
DL
DL
The G35 intrigued me, but did not come with a stick, could not get it below MSRP, and needed a car.
I will be interested when another comparison test happens with the Saab. The previous one was known as a fun car, if you can get by its idosyncracies.
One last item on the Saab 9-3. The one item that bothers me is the center console layout. Too many buttons. The buttons are small and all are the same size. I know it is minor, but that was the only thing I noticed about the interior that I did not like. A loaded Saab 9-3 below $30K? It will sell, and be a major competitor.
good luck
DL
The new 9-3 should be bigger on the inside (from the pictures) and definitely looks more luxurious than the WRX. Also, Saabs have a reputation (if I remember correctly) as being a very good bad weather vehicle.
Finally, snow tires might help your current car. People on these boards have been praising the Bliztaks for their bad weather handling.
Saab has ALWAYS been FWD, even back in the days when there were no FWD cars. They have always used this layout and it is about as ubiquitous as the centre-mounted key.
If you would read the foreign reviews of this car, you'd know that they have considered it to be a very capable, sporty car.
If I wanted a true "sports car" like a 911 or something like that, then RWD would be necessary. But on a "sporty sedan", it is not necessary.
Your search came to a grinding halt? You should have known that Saabs have always been FWD. That's like saying "Why does Saab use a turbo?" It's completely antithetical.
Audi uses FWD just fine and is a very competitive Euro brand.