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BMW 5-Series Wagon 2004 Redesign
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Comments
Also/Separately, I've read that one of BMW's board members (or some other knowledgable source) has said SMG is likely to replace all of its manual trannies in the future. I don't know how true or likely that really is (I hope a stick will always be an option), but it certainly indicates the promise BMW sees in this technology.
I am planning on buying my first BMW and I am going to wait for the 545i (E60).
Does anyone have any suggestions as to the options:
3.0 I6 vs. 3.5l V8 vs. 4.4l V8 engine?
AWD vs. RWD?
iDrive or no iDrive? Would it help to check out a current 745 even though the iDrive is supposed to be simplified in the E60?
Thanks!
That said, though, it's not yet known which engine choices will be available. The V8 from the 745i is almost a certainty, as is one or two of the 6-cylinders. IDrive will most likely be a non-deletable feature, but as you say rumors indicate it will be simplified over the 7-series' version. AWD may be an option, but almost certainly not from the outset.
In general, how would one choose the engine type (V8 vs.in-line V6 turbo)? Not being too savvy with cars, what would make me select one vs. the other? I prefer a car that jumps off the starting line (good acceleration). Would one engine be better?
Also, I am waiting this long, is it worth the wait for AWD to come out? (I live in Chicago)
There are other potential considerations, such as fuel economy, reliability, weight balance, etc. Most of these, in turn, favor the inline-6's. (The general consensus is that the 6's are slightly more reliable and cheaper to maintain over the long term than the V8's, but I don't have any data to back this up.)
I think a RWD 5-series can perform in all but the worst conditions when equipped with proper snow/winter tires. AWD would aid traction and stability over slippery surfaces even more, although it wouldn't obviate the need for winter tires. Whether you should wait for AWD is up to you (it's not known when or even IF it will be offered), but as general advice I'd suggest against buying the E60 in its first year. A casual glance at the 7-series board lists frequent first-year teething problems associated with the car's complicated electronics. Just my thoughts.
I am obviously upset about waiting a year or so as it is... I don't know if I can wait any more than that!
Maybe the early problems with the 745 design will help BMW debug the E60 prior to launch!
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000120758.cfm
Im hoping car start selling this summer in US so I can wait a few months too see what kind of response it gets before I purchase.
-------------------------------------------------#5503 of 5517 2004 BMW 5 Series by jstyle Feb 05, 2003 (11:36 am)
Here is the best look at the next car. A friend saw one at a petrol station in Austria and told me these are right on. I think I'd run out and buy the current model if I were looking.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5723
E60 PRODUCTION: I spoke to a local dealer recently who told me they'll stop production of the 3s and the new ones will be out in June, and that they will stop producing the E39 in June & they'll be here early fall. That seems to be confirmed in updates I've seen in magazines this month. Walton's column in Roundel 2/03 p.21 indicates the E60 due here Sept. We'll see.
My main concern is reliability as I'm chomping at the bit to get my first BMW-fell in love w/ the 2001 530 sport I took for a test drive then. Absolutely felt glued to the road over my favorite curvey road test course w/ uneven pavement. Tried lots of cool cars there (3.2 TL-S, 740i, 328i, S80) nothing made me say, 'wow!! I gotta go back & do that again'!! I did, going even faster, sold ever since. I'd hate to get a lemon tho w/ a new one--a crap shoot w/ a redesign.
Read this last post and your posts on the 5-series board. Sounds like we are in very similar boat. This would be my first bmw, and after a lot of back and forth, I've tentatively settled on the 2004 540/545 - toyed around with the thought of M3 convertible, older 740i or CPO 540 but think the E60 looks and sounds great (I actually like the 745 look a lot).
That said, I'm worried about the potential nightmares I've seen alluded to here and elsewhere. Like you, I have some vague hope that the 745 problems have forced them to get their act together for what is a really huge launch for them. I'm also in the Bay Area (Marin), so your comment on the Bay Area dealers gives me one other reason to pause. That said, can't imagine I would go MB or anything else (TL-S is ok but not very interesting, Marin is now overrun with A6s, and Jaguar is a joke IMHO).
So, do we just take the plunge and blow $60k on a software-flawed, rattling, fog-light challenged monster? (or stay in my old man slushbox Acura RL for another year or two - NO THANKS).
Thorpedo
Yes, we're having similar concerns. Specifically Consumer CheckBook(part of CU) showed Weatherford in Berkeley the best of Bay Area dealers & Peter Pan BMW in San Mateo the worst (even worse than most new car dealers-shocking in itself) tho Peter Pan's sales guys are great.
I actually would consider MB, LOVE the look esp. front. But, Consumer Report shows terrible reliability esp for the ML & CLK--the worst of the worst, along w/ Jeep, S80 'course Chevys & Fords & the A6 & X5 are no prizes either. (I find the E500 CLK stunning & tho I'd be divorced if I spent $55-60K I might risk it if it had even average reliability--if it were as my neighbor's '93 SC 400--in a minute!! over 100K & only oil chg & brakes! candy apple red, still looks stunning) From the C & D road test of the E320, sounds miserable to drive-brakes & steering, I dont
know how they got that hi fun to drive rating. Surely BMW wouldn't do that?
E60 in the fall?? Ya I guess I'll have to go for it--or else quit reading magazines & looking here! As are you, I'm ready for something new but in actuality my '94 Volvo 850 turbo accelerates & stops w/ the same numbers as a 530, but the comparison stops there (ride & handling, etc). Only 85K mi. a stunning teal green that looks as new since I detailed it w/ Zymol Sat. I'm nuts to get rid of it but who said car nuts have any rationality when ready to move up?
So I'll probably trust BMW & go for it. With the international joking about the 745i they'll surely do better w/ the E60. Tho I'm definitely sopiled w/ the Volvo's wonderful ergononics--adjust the HVAC, tone, balance, computer w/o taking my eyes off the road. I'm always fiddling w/ such the idea of going into a screen sounds ridiculous if not dangerous!! Oh well, cant have everything. Good luck w/ your decision, keep us posted.
I'm a big fan of BMW since the time I lived in Germany. I'm currently researching the new E60 but haven't made up my mind about it yet -- to iDrive or not to iDrive? :-)
Here are some useful sites with pics and info about the E60. I appreciate any input from this wonderful group!
http://www.bmw545.com (tons of pics)
http://www.bmwclub.org.hk/news/0020.htm
http://www.bmwfan-hp.de/e60-02.php
http://gogogogo.netfirms.com/BMW.html
I can't wait to see it! Perhaps I should fly to Germany and check it out -- anyone interested? :-)
Tony
They also state that "BMW has pushed back the 5 Series sedan's launch to spring 2004, making it unlikely to be seen at this year's Frankfurt auto show."
Thanks for the info. Too bad, I was hoping to see the E60 at Frankfurt auto show. :-(
I'm surprised that BMW would delay the debut of the new 5 series till Spring 04 (that's 6 months late in the automobile year), considering that they will stop producing the current edition very soon. It will create a gap in the market.
Do you think the delay has anything to do with tech problems or unsolved issues with the new design?
Tony
I'm curious, too, about the delay, but there wasn't any word about the reason. Hopefully they broke into the source code on the Accord's nav system, and/or the A8's MMC system (both reportedly excellent), and are busy re-writing iDrive.
Sales of E39 have fallen off. That alone might allow BMW to cut off production once they believe they have enough inventory in the pipeline to cover until the E60 comes out. Will be interesting to see how long it takes BMW to convert production facility over from E39 to E60. Wonder if they have all their testing complete? And any required environmental and fuel testing certification done?
Guess that is why they have highly paid executives, engineers, marketers, etc. Just hope they don't guess wrong.
FWIW, I am now into my fifth year of BMW ownership, and I have yet to suffer even a single unscheduled visit to the dealership for anything other than normal wear items (brakes, which I ultimately did myself). I rather like that aspect of BMW ownership.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Tony
Best Regards,
Shipo
With the new BMW 5 series following in the path of the controversial 7 series, I'm more inclined towards the Audi.
You may review the Audi S4:
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000112958.cfm
http://www.audiworld.com/features/tests/2004s4.shtml
Tony
That being said, I'm a little disappointed in the new S4. With the E46 M3's 2-year head start, you'd think the Audi guys would have been able to outdo the M3, but it apparently falls short. The AWD is too front-biased (read: understeer), the car's too heavy (read: 0-60 in 5.5 seconds), and it just lacks the overall precision and tossability of the M3. (All based on what I've read, of course.) However, it does offer a heavy breathing, torquey V8, a gorgeous and refined (as always) interior, and probably 95% of the M3's capabilities compared to most sports sedans.
I bought one of the very first 97 528's in June '96- didn't have the option to wait as my car had been stolen.
I had a number of glitches with the car most of which were taken care of during warranty. 3 window mechanisms had to be replaced- cheap plastic mechanism. 2 were out of warranty and they were not cheap. Door seals were a problem and they were replaced in warranty. Check engine light was an issue and shared the cost of replacing oxygen sensors. Trunk actuator had to be replaced- plastic again. Water pump and thermostat replaced.
A big problem to resolve was the radio which failed outside of warranty- just wouldn't play and I thought that was a ridiculous item to fail. Moreover, the initial exclusive option was replacing the whole unit at an exorbitant cost ($600). Ultimately, I ended up with a refurbished one from Alpine (like the original). It was going to cost me a hundred but because it took months to get back the dealer picked up the cost.
All this to let you know, you can expect an above average amount of problems if you buy the first year production. Consumer Reports ratings on reliability for the various years shows the 97 as having the worst, albeit not a bad, record.
I have kept this car longer than any other and it runs great with 95K on it. While I am always one to go for the new models, this time I am thinking about getting a 2003 5 series. Rationale: get one that has been perfected then I will be on a buying cycle that gets me away from first year production.
It's a wise decision to get the 2003 5 series. Have you made up your mind which trim you're gonna buy?
Good luck!
Tony
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000112958.cfm
http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstlook/0304ec_s4audi/
http://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/firstdrives/articledisplay.as- - p?articleid=450
Good luck!
Tony
Like the current E65 7-series which has an unbelievable drive, the new 5 will have a similar drive and it looks suprisingly good.. I wasn't sure if my expectations were suprisingly low but when it comes out, I think it will be impressive. I would wait until 2005 if possible to avoid any MY 1 kinks...New car is expected this fall
I am in the market for a sports wagon and considering 525it or 540it. Does anybody know if the next generation 5 series will include 530it? It seems to me 530it, and not 525it, should be the model offered. For most, 545it would be an overkill in terms of both power and bank account, and 525it just seems a little underpowered in these days of big engines.
Go to www.bmwusa.com and follow the links "News & Events" and then "News".
They have the complete press release and two photos---one exterior front 3/4 view and one of the interior.
The E60 is scheduled to arrive on American shores in October.
http://www.germancarfans.com/News.cfm?NewsID=2030401.001
Best Regards,
Shipo
But the exterior is definitely NOT to my taste. From many angles the E60 reminds me of an Acura TSX with more "surface excitement," especially the headlamp housing and trunk designs. I like the more restrained look of the current 5-Series, thank you very much!
I found the designer's inspiration for the front-end design:
http://www.dame-edna.com/
As proof, here's a slightly doctored photo of the new 5. Note how Dame Edna's glasses fit perfectly, in fact it's hard to tell which side is photochopped! LOL
Note: you'll need to register at ImageStation.com to see it, but trust me it's worth it!
I think the styling is "unfortunate" at best. Chris Bangle would've been hung in medievil days for less than what he's done to the 7 and now the 5.
In particular the eye brows make it look like a Drag Queen. The rear taillights looks like a Kia's. From the side it looks fat. Fat + Drag Queen = Dame Edna.
Sadly, the 5 was a car I aspired to own for decades, what have they done? Unbelievably sad.
Sorry, my adverse reaction required a coping mechanism, and my choice was humor.
-juice
-Steve
Tony
Or worse, they might redecorate my house!
-juice
The exterior is ok, the interior isn't what it should be. not real driver oriented.