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Chevy Impala 2004 Redesign
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Comments
http://www.edmunds.com/future/2004/pontiac/grandprix/100076346/ph- - otos.html?tid=edmunds.f.review.leftsidenav..3.Pontiac*
My point is that the GTP will no doubt come in many colours, white being ONE of them!
And it IS available, colour code 40U, name Ivory!
Ford needs to learn to
make auto trannies that actually help acceleration and maybe not lie about their horsepower either.
I'd like to see those long-term repair numbers please.... don't have them? Didn't think so.
If you don't like the black only SS for '04, then wait til '05... Or get the new Grand Prix, which is EASILY the best car in the class. Hello Pontiac.
BTW there is no "hassle of the supercharger".. where'd you get that from?
Also, cars are sent to the magazines for "first drive" hype and the car performs incredibly (of course) only to perform less incredibly in later "comparison" tests 6 months later with other cars. Worse, 0 to 60 is all the focus and the "street start" (C&D tests a 5 to 60 street start that eliminates the gains from a trick launch - it is more indicative of real driving experience/performance) is much lower for some cars. Example: the WRX tested well under 6 seconds in C&D to 0 to 60, but the 5 to 60 number was 7.4. Hmmmm.
I just don't see any intelligence in this constant "bash" mentality sometimes displayed on some boards. If you don't own an Impala or care to own one in the future, why deposit your refuse here? Do you also hang around the grocery store and ridicule those that buy foods you don't like (for whatever "reason")?
This "old technology" stuff is goofy. I have both a DOHC (4 cam), 32 valve V8 car and the Impala with the 3.8. I love them both and don't find the 3.8 lacking in any respect. I find it to deliver plenty of power with lots of low end torque, incredible fuel economy, and a great value as part of a nicely equipped, very roomy, safe, full sized comfortable car.
The Series III 3.8 S/C engine produces even more torque, and this time the HP is underrated as well. Just like most GM cars and trucks.
Also, I've always found it weird that the 3.8's in some Pontiacs make 230 torque and the Chevy is 225. Yeah right. The set up is the same as far as I can tell. I wouldn't be surprised that the Chevy is simply listed 5 less than the Pontiac just to keep some sort of artificial line between the divisions.
GM is infamous for this and they think they are helping their divisions. It's stupid.
Do you want me to name all of the cars (foreign and domestic) that come with forced induction from the factory?
Its funny that I don't hear anyone complaining that Saabs, VW's, or Volvo's come with turbo's. Plus Mitsu and Mazda are coming out with turbo cars. Superchargers can be more reliable and drive better without that turbo lag.
Band-aid? NOT. You are just a domestic hater.
anyways.. y'all are without hope or reason...
As was said in the parent group for quite some time:
IMPALA
On with the show...(SHO?)
I'm not so much opposed to turbos and superchargers in four cylinders as the fours usually have very small displacement. A saab turbo 4 is 2 litres. I wouldn't expect 265hp out of a 4 cyl non turbo.
But in the v6 game, I think the basic design of the motor (valvetrain) and size (displacement) should be enough to get serious horsepower without really needing a supercharger or turbo. Shoould be able to get 240hp or so without one.
Torquey engines often have relatively unimpressive horsepower ratings. But, the public looks for horsepower ratings. I doubt 5 out of 100 could even tell you what torque is.
Thus the supercharged engine on the Impala. The better question is why do they STILL keep the Series III for Pontiac and not let Chevy use it? I see little reason to even consider an Impala when the new GTP is out with the newly improved engine. ESPECIALLY since it, unlike the Chevy, comes in colours other than black and even with cloth seats, should one so desire.
too many four cylinders have too small a displacement which is why a blower seems to be handy. If they just made the four cylinder a little bigger, it may make a blower a waste of time. For example, the Nissan SpecV has a 2.5 litre four that gets as much power as Mazda's 2.0 with a turbo. And Saab has a 2.0 trying to lug a big car around, hence add a blower. Maybe Saab should just enlarge the displacement. The Altima does wonderfully with its larger 2.5 litre four cylinder. The Altima 4 cyl. is more refined than and can outdo a 3.1 Grand Prix and be within striking distance of the 3.8 Grand Prix.
Oddly, with the 3800, it seems to need more displacement AND a blower to get up in the 240hp range. Take away the blower and it makes power more similar to other cars with engines in the 3.0 litre range.
Yeah, but where is their torque? Huh.... that's right they have no where close to 300 ft/lbs like the '97 GTP does.
"Oddly, with the 3800, it seems to need more displacement AND a blower to get up in the 240hp range. Take away the blower and it makes power more similar to other cars with engines in the 3.0 litre range."
You still don't understand that it's a different type of engine do you? Why are you so hung up on displacement and superchargers? What's the big deal? It makes the power you could want AND it have great fuel economy... what is your problem with it???
"But in the v6 game, I think the basic design of the motor (valvetrain) and size (displacement) should be enough to get serious horsepower without really needing a supercharger or turbo. Should be able to get 240hp or so without one."
If its sooo easy then how come Honda and Nissan are the only ones that I know of with 240 hp in a v6? Perhaps they choose to tweek the engine in the higher RPM range to sqeeze out an extra 20 or so peek horsepower.
Each car maker is different. They don't all aim to make extra peek HP just to sell more cars to numb nuts who ONLY look at peek HP.
I would rather have 240 HP or 260 HP and 280 TQ any day over 240 HP and 240 TQ (Nissan) or 212 TQ (Honda - lame). In terms of cost, gas mileage, power, and reliability its a win for GM. Like I said before the Nissan makes good power but the other's can't compete wih the SC 3800.
Here's some quotes:
"The 3.4 was concepted as a V6 version of the Olds 2.3L "quad 4"."
"The 3.4L DOHC was actually the forerunner of many current motors. The Cadillac Northstar 4.6L 32 Valve V8, and later the Aroura 4.0L 32-Valve V8, were sons of the V6 program."
"Well, the GM engine gurus went to their counterparts at GM Hydramatic, with a challenge. Build a FWD auto trans, that will take 275 HP. You have 2 years to be in production. In a car."
"and it was by far, the BEST motor that GM engineers could build for its application. Emission certification verifed an honest 281HP on the sheets. Emission 7000RPM screamer. This was in early 1990, January I believe. Transmission? Anyone? Hydramatic had its own challenges to conquer."
"Hydramatic went to the market with their finished product just days before the deadline. Will it take 275HP? NO! Will it take 250HP? NO! How bout 225Hp? Maybe. GM engine ground was peeved! All this effort, just to be cut down at the flywheel....225HP? I want 275! Well, the rest is corporate decision making at its worst. Cut the horsepower of the 3.4L to 200 with an automatic. You can have 210 on a stick. Makes a guy want to cry, don't it?"
It's a damn shame they couldn't get it out then... but at least we have good trannies now... GM and Ford are even now working on a 6 speed FWD tranny right now together. Should be good. Now all we need are some manual trannies!!!
Also, for more GM DOHC, check out the Northstar, and the ZR-1 Corvette.
In other words, a half butt approach to engine design.
I think if you look you will find the bore centers are exactly the same which is part of what enabled them to utilize some existing tooling from the pushrod version.
A way to cheap out on the design in other words.
The 3.4 DOHC is a separate engine, one that evolved from the Quad 4 and was used in several other cars in the late 80's and early 90's.
The 3.4 pushrod in the Impala is based off of the 3.1, 2.8 pushrod series which is a completely different engine that I believe debuted in 79 with the Citation.
I'm talking about the DOHC 3.4L V6, not the 3.4L Pushrod V6 which is based pretty much on the 3.1L Pushrod V6.
3.4
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/5007/fiero_osg/60-degre- - e-V6.html
this link also suggests the 3.4 TDC was an evolution of the far too ubiquitous Citation engine.
I don't disagree that perhaps the head design for the Twin Dual cam was modeled after the Quad four, but from what I have read in the past, the block design started with the pushrod v6 because of the desire to utilize some existing tooling and manufacturing capabilities. The oiling system was modified to work with OHC and a complete DOHC top end was half@$$ed on top of the modified pushrod block.
I will find the tech report in Car and Driver that breaks this out in detail. I've seen it / read it. Just need to dig some boxes up in the bedroom to get to it and find it.
Besides, in the early 80's to mid 90's GM never designed an all new v6, much less an OHC, so it was par for course for them to take a half hearted approach. So like them.
Also, the 3.4 DOHC is a pretty good engine with pretty good reliability... it was just coupled with a poor alternator, and a poor tranny... vcjumper just posted the same article I did......
Wow, I'm so overwhelmed.