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Acura TSX
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Comments
My thoughts...the MPG of the TSX is rather decent for the performance. If the criteria is economy, there are plenty of other alternatives (Civic, Tercel, etc). If you want an entry sports-luxury vehicle there is the TSX, Audi A4, etc.
My point exactly. You can buy the A4 in Europe(dont know about the states) with a 6 speed manual and turbo diesel. It simply rocks. Far better torque than my tsx 6 speed, great cornering etc. In a race i don't know what would win - the Audi down low and the tsx up high perhaps. The engine is completely the opposite of the tsx's . need passing power/ Upshift. Yup. Upshift. All the torque is low (<300 for sure), whereas ours is just getting going.
I bought my car knowing prices of gas were likely to rise and that it required premium. I will continue to put premium in. However, given the chance of a turbo diesel that got 50 instead of 25 mph, I would jump at it. We can get better mileage than 25, but not if you're having fun. Diesel doesn't seem to care as much. All I can say is: pox on GM for tainting North Americans to this technology 20 years ago. Read some reviews of honda's 2.2L diesel and see what the Euros think of it. It is even better than the Audi.
Also....don't forget...the emission/smog controls in the USA is very much different...so there is also that aspect to consider that will boost what experiences you had. Bring it to the states...and the emissions will eat it alive.
One day...we will be driving vehicles similar to the "Smart Cars" that are in Europe. (how many here know what I am referring to? A brand of cars that is basically a golf cart).
Did you know the 2.2 icTDi in the Euro Accord has less emissions that the gas version?
It's only a matter of time, not if, the diesel will make it to the US. And if you're not a lead footed driver you can get even better than 50MPG. If you are light footed you can already get 40MPG on the hwy with the current TSX.
There's no need to get down to Smart car sized vehicles - subcompacts like the upcoming Fit from Honda or Yaris from Toyota will be small enough to get almost the same milage but provide more practical transportation.
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For those that do not know what a 'Smart' car looks like...please click the link below. (just know it won't have the performance that most north american drivers expect)
http://www.smart.com/smart_uk/smart_uk_start.html
Also, it sounds like that deisel engine is very new, so it would make sense that Honda would introduce it elsewhere in the world first. If all goes well, it may come here...especially with current gas prices. You also have to realize that not ever gas station here has deisel. So, consumers in the US have to be more careful when using deisel, especially in urban areas where there is less truck traffic.
The point is that light footed US drivers can't get much over 30-32 mpg in their TSX. And, deisel gas is not as prevalent in the US.
We have smart cars in Canada, and the US will soon be gettign them. they are all over Europe, as you mentioned. Not my cup of tea.
The turbos offered in the Audi (dont knowe about the accord) fell stronger at launch than the 2.4 gas. The gas catches up as the diesel revs climb.
The turbo Mercedes S (or E) class is faster than its gas comparison. It may have duel turbos, but the old adage of diesels being slow is wrong.
I think the 2.2L accord turbo does 0-62 in 9 seconds or so. Slower than gas, but not by much. The engine got raves from the Euro press and won lots of awards. Bring it on.
That is correct. Torque = "feels". Horsepower "moves" a car.
If I was seeking an economical and ecological solution....I would purchase a hybrid before I go to diesel.
Hybrids sold in North America are a sham. It has NOTHING to do with ecology, and everything to do with performance. They barely exceed the pure gas versions in everyday driving.. North Americans are green suckers. It is the Robbins/Sarandon clowns who think they are saving the earth with these things.
Mercedes is testing a diesel hybrid. Real power and real fuel efficiency.
Diesel exhaust is very toxic. Two developments here though: 1) clean fuel standard in 2006 will drop sulphur levels dramatically, cleaning up the fuel and the exhaust. 2) Exhaust particle traps being developed (used by MB) dramatically clean the exhaust. Some gases, like carbon dioxide, are much lower in diesel exhaust than with gas exhaust. Diesel hybrids are the near term future of fuels. Let the price of gas rise to $3-4 and it will get the morons out of the Hummers and provoke Hon/Toyo/Niss/Mitsu/GM/MB/Ford etc to bring their diesels over. Chrysler-MB is already planning to do so. Let the sun shine in!
I will pass on driving a diesel until a later time. I am a "North American green sucker" who is still a traditional western capitalist who still wants a well handling performance sports luxury vehicle that by many standards is burning too much fuel at 20-25mpg mixed driving...but what I considering reasonable for my three cars. I am one of many global drivers who are with BMW 7 series who are intermixed with the 50hp "Smart Cars".
If I was more concerned with saving a few bucks on gas...I would not have even looked at the TSX or anything else in its class. I'll enjoy my cars until the time comes then I will consider the alternatives. Until then, I will be one of the morons when gas rise to $3-4. I have worked hard...and got to live a little to enjoy.
Ultimately...the key is that the TSX doesn't have a diesel. And if it did...I wouldn't select it as it does not fulfil my requirements and needs. As it stands currently...both the TSX and TL fulfill my needs and is extremely competitive to its peer competitors.
The diesel is a bit of a chicken-egg problem concerning availability. Makers don't know how well they will be accepted due past issues and lack of refueling stations and stations are hesistant to add diesel as an option at the pump until the need is there. Like I said it's a matter of when not if.
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My whole point was that the Euros get engine choices far beyond what we get in North America, and if some automakers other than VW (I wouldn't buy one either) is brave enought to bring their diesels here, people who test drive them who sometimes opt for them.
TSX is a great car - handling, standard equipment, relibility, value and looks. If only we had a choice with regard to the engine.
no problem...To each his own.
My whole point was that the Euros get engine choices far beyond what we get in North America, and if some automakers other than VW (I wouldn't buy one either) is brave enough to bring their diesels here, people who test drive them would sometimes opt for them.
TSX is a great car - handling, standard equipment, reliability, value and looks. If only we had a choice with regard to the engine.
My neighbor is a Honda dealer. Next time I see him I will ask him about when H will bring their diesel CR-V, Accord etc to N.A. I think that there is an opportunity here. Mitsu should do it because right now they are virtually invisible in the car market. Bring diesel versions of their cars and maybe someone will buy one.
Diesel is widely available in Canada. Also recall, you fill up every 600 miles not every 200-300, so you should have plenty of time to find a station.
I do wonder though...what would it do to the overall cost structure for the model. That is...if they produce too many variations and choices...production become less efficient and costly with retooling and with alternate production lines....and they will be unable to efficiently absorb fixed costs. Therefore the gas powered car lineup would have to absorb more costs and cover for the shortfalls of a slow diesel lineup...which would raise the price of the gas powered cars.
Help me understand please on the benefits of diesel versus hybrids? From what I understand....the Honda Insight has 65hp and gets something like 60mpg. Why would it be beneficial to go diesel? Because of power? If so...what would the power be in a Honda Accord Hybrid?
Markets - the biggest market in the country (California) doesn't allow the sale of diesel cars as they currently do not meet the emissions standards. Those standards also affect the Northeast where imports outsell domestics. It doesn't make any sense to offer the vehicles where they won't sell the most.
Low Sulphur Diesel - expect diesel costs to go up 25-30% when the low sulphur requirements are implemented. It requires more refining and processing to achieve the lower levels - that doesn't come for free. Also, it takes 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel than a gallon of gasoline. It also emits 17% more greenhouse gasses than gasoline.
Diesel is part of the solution - not the entire solution.
You're correct about the little Honda insight. It already gets great mileage, so a diesel would not improve things as much as say, for a CRV. However the smart car you refer to has a 1-L diesel (3 cylinger I believe) engine. It gets awesome mileage. The Accord hybrid in NA has been a big disappointment in terms of mileage though people report great power.
I just loved the torque that is available in these turbo diesels. It is much different from the tsx. Now there was some speculation that Honda might put a turbo on this 2.4L gas engine and slap it in the coming Acura CR-V clone (RDX?). That would be an amazing engine IMO. However, they seem not to like turbos for some reason.
I think the US states like Cal ought to reassess the situation. I think mileage is a bigger issue confronting America than particulates and NOx. They should reverse themselves and allow clean Euro style diesels.
BP already runs cleaned up gas. Is their diesel also clean or are they waiting till next year. They seem like a good corp to me for implementing changes before they were mandated to. Their gas costs the same as everyone else's.
See you boys later. 10 days in the S. Pacific to cool my (diesel-loving) jets.
"Asians oversell horsepower-
Toyota, Honda inflated claims of engine muscle; new tests force automakers to come clean with buyers...After years of touting ever higher horsepower numbers to win new customers, Toyota Motor Corp., Honda Motor Co. and possibly other automakers are now backtracking on some of those claims...Honda is reducing horsepower ratings across its Acura brand. The flagship RL sedan will lose 10 horsepower, to 290 from 300. The popular MDX SUV will fall from a rating of 265 to 253..."
Full article here: http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/17/A01-283759.htm
It looks like they inflated everything by about 10hp. So this means the '04-'05 models are really around 190 hp, and this horsepower "increase" of +10ish is going to put it at 200 hp for the '06.
I had always heard that Honda actually underrated their engines slightly, and this had been borne out in dyno testing down by drivers on other enthusiast sites. The new V-6 Accord is one model that comes to mind.
I think the big problem is comparing BHP versus measuring power at the rear wheels, as is done on dynos. Something is invariably lost in the translation.
Johnny
"It's analogous to taking the lead out of gasoline as we did in the late 1970s," Millett said. "By taking lead out of gas, it allowed catalytic converters in cars and light trucks, which was a huge public-health benefit because emissions were dramatically reduced.
"With diesel, we're able to do much the same thing by reducing sulfur. That allows catalytic reduction of pollutants and particulate controls to be added to the engine."
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The oil companies have already stated that it will be 3-5 cents/gal more expensive for the low sulfur diesel - not 25-30%.
The emissions issue is meaningless - the diesels will meet the same exact rules as gas cars.
This is not true, the particulates of diesal emissions are of such a size that they get stuck in you lungs that you cannot expell, car emissions are much smaller that are easily dislodged with a cough. I highly recommend that you hold your breath when a diesal bus drives by you.
Thanks,
Chris
Thanks,
Chris
In any case when '06 starts coming out all the '05s will be sold ASAP. It is already 2000 below MSRP. The only problem will be color choices .
My 0.02
It's just sales pressue to buy now under the pretense of trying to save you money so you can avoid the huge price increase looming just around the corner.
I am not a mechanic nor am I an expert on oil or the Acura TSX. The TSX is on my short list for my next new car as is the Camry. What kind of mpg are you getting? I hear that the ride of the TSX is a bit rough. Do you find it that way? Did you compare the ride of the TSX to any other cars?