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Acura TSX

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Comments

  • That is, of course, the J32 V6, not the J90 :blush:
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I respect your opinion johnny, so you are saying that boosting the TSX hp with the 240 hp honda engine would require design changes in teh engine bay, that would likely result in a costly change. In effect, a new car line, not a TSX.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Now that Honda offers the V-6 Sedan with a 6-speed MT, you could build yourself a "240 hp TSX." Just add summer tires and stiffen up the suspension - it may not turn-in quite like a TSX, but it will come very close.

    P.S. I saw an '06 Accord sedan on the highway today. New LED taillights are great looking! Ugly is no longer an excuse to avoid the Accord.
  • Yeah, that's true about the V6, but what about a turbo 4 cylider? Like a WRX?
  • There's no reason that couldn't be done. It would fall in line with "tweaking" the K24. Whether or not Honda actually does it for the USDM is another matter.

    I'm certainly no expert, but, from what I've read, the K24's potential has barely been tapped. Not much more than bolt-on mods are available for it at this time, for whatever reason (demand?). I think as time marches on we'll see much more performance from this engine, both via aftermarket and from Honda internally.

    Just my opinion :)
  • Fedlawman, please don't take this the wrong way, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that since you no longer have your TSX you've changed your tune a bit.

    I seem to recall you arguing in the not too distant past that making the mods you suggested still wouldn't bring the Accord in line with the TSX, handling wise anyway. You know, "happy yachting" and all that.

    Granted, the Accord V6 will now be available with a 6 MT, but it'll still be an Accord. I guess I'm not sure why Honda would do this, if what you suggest is true. Sounds like they'd just be shooting themselves in the foot. I think they're too smart for that.

    BTW, I could make the same mods to my TSX that you suggest for the Accord, and still be that much further ahead in the game. And I plan to :P

    Sounds like you're enjoying the E30. It sure is purdy. Been posting your experiences with it anywhere here at Edmunds?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    No Johnny, I haven't changed my basic tune, though I admit the harmony may sound a little different. Now that I'm back in a RWD sports car, I have come to realize in hindsight what limitations the TSX has. I still believe that below 8/10ths, there is no functional difference in performance between the TSX and it's RWD competitors (Lexus IS, BMW E46 3-series, etc.), but at track speeds, there's just no avoiding the 60/40 weight bias.

    Regarding my earlier post, I did say, "it may not turn-in quite like a TSX, but it will come very close."

    Here's a quote from a Feb 13, 2005 message I posted (message #214) on the now closed "Accord vs. TSX" thread. I think this sums it up my opinion pretty well...

    "The TSX will always outperform the Accord when both cars are modified to the same degree, ie: a TSX with H&R coilovers will outhandle an Accord with H&R coilovers. A TSX with Comptech rear sway bar will outhandle an Accord with a Comptech rear sway bar, etc. Face it, invest enough money and the Accord can be modified into a very respectable canyon carver, but it will always be longer, wider, heavier, and slower steering than the TSX - it will also cost more than a stock TSX that's ready to carve right from the factory."

    My current opinion? An Accord V-6 with aftermarket suspension can be made to handle virtually as well as a stock TSX, but it will still be a little heavier in the nose and slower steering, so it won't be quite as tossable feeling. However, to someone that places high value on HP and TQ, it's a viable alternative.

    As for my E30, I tracked it 3 times this summer (and again next month) and dyno tested it too. I've posted some messages in the "BMW 3-Series Sedans - 2005 and earlier" and "Entry-Level Luxury Performance Sedans" forums. You can also see some photos here...

    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2064126

    I've wanted to attend the last two Northwest Acura meets, but couldn't due to scheduling conflicts. I hope to make it to one soon.

    Regards,

    Still loyal to the TSX Brian :)
  • :shades: Have any of the 2006s been seen in the US? When should we start seeing them? I have heard so many different time frames, but found your forum very reliable.
  • Wow. Brian, that is one sweet looking car. I love its clean lines. The interior is as immaculate as the exterior. The previous owner obviously gave the car a lot of lovin' :) . This is, of course, as it should be :shades:

    You like red, dontcha? ;)

    I 'd be interested to hear your impressions of its driving dynamics as compared to the TSX, though this probably isn't the correct board for that.

    As for the TSX, I see where you're coming from. Believe me, BMW's always have and always will appeal to me. To me the E90 is obscenely over-priced, but I want one anyway. It's getting terrific write-ups in the rags. I saw your suggestion elsewhere about an ED purchase of a stripped 325i. That sounds pretty good, though I'd probably get the 330i SP. That would be one exciting purchasing experience. Haven't been back to Deutschland since my Army days.

    The only thing that concerns me is reliability. I just finished reading 2500+ posts on the "problems and solutions" 3 series board, and it's not particularly pretty. But knowing that sites like these probably don't realistically represent the "real world" regarding problems, I'm somewhat willing to look past it. Bimmer drivers are always passionate about their cars.

    Anyway, it's the TSX for now, with mods to the engine and suspension on the way.

    Will Honda ever go RWD?

    Take care.
  • I keep reading about great handling.
    Drove TSX as a loaner with only 3,000 miles for couple weeks. I like the car.

    I pushed the car little bit for its handling by taking sharp corners. I made a quick lane changes at 50mph, TSX fishtailed. Tried it again. Same. deal.

    I pulled the same move on by friend's '05 TL and did not fishtail (he was annoyed but I complimented his car).

    Never drove the NSX but my favorite handling Honda product is the 5th generation Prelude.

    Compare to V6 EX Accord (similarly price Honda product - better torque), seating height is similar but in a narrower car. So during the fishtailing (poor grammar) it made feel like I'm was in a bubbly car.

    Similarly sized competitors, I drove the BMW 325 and Audi A4. Both more $$ but they handled better.

    Is it because TSX sits too high (higher clearance)? Am I expecting too much?
  • The tires probably contributed to the lack of roadholding. My Accord sticks like glue with the change of tires that I put on it. The original Bridgestones felt as if they had WD40 sprayed on the tread and marshmellows for sidewalls. Don't the TSX's have the same tires people complain about that are on the RSX's.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "I 'd be interested to hear your impressions of its driving dynamics as compared to the TSX."

    Thanks for asking Johnny, I'll try to keep this in the context of a TSX discussion...

    First of all, I really think the TSX is closer in spirit to my '88 325is (E30) than the current BMW 3-series. In my opinion, the TSX has a light on its feet, tossable feeling that is somewhat lost on the more solid and heavy-feeling modern BMW's.

    The TSX is obviously more refined than my E30. The ride is smoother and quieter, the materials are of much higher quality, and the driving experience is much more refined and relaxed in the TSX. The stereo is much better, and of course, I need not mention the TSX's safety features which are missing on my E30 (airbags, traction control, etc.). Unfortunately, the price you pay for all that comfort and safety is excess weight and a comparatively muted driving experience.

    By modern standards, my E30 is a relatively noisy, harsh-riding, primitive car. The interior plastics are cheap, the doors are tinny, and the cockpit is much smaller (the E30 is about the same size as an RSX). The front seats are extremely comfortable, adjustable, and supportive, but the steering wheel doesn't tilt or telescope. I love the way the E30 looks, and I think it has timeless lines that will look good for decades to come. With a nice coat of wax, it definitely turns more heads and starts more conversations than my TSX ever did.

    But where my E30 really shines (and the main reason why I got one) is in its powertrain and driving dynamics. The balance is absolutely neutral - settle the car and enter a sweeper, and you can play with the rear end all the way through. Your right foot is like the conductor of an orchestra, and each section responds individually to every subtle direction you give it. You can almost feel each tire contact patch through the steering wheel and the seat of your pants, yet the car never gets upset over rough roads - even over mid-corner bumps and off-camber elevation changes. The I-6 engine has good power (comparable to the TSX) and the song it sings is just as sweet (but in a different way) - and the very Italian sounding exhaust note (probably due in part to 18 years of internal erosion, ha ha) reminds me of my much missed Alfa Romeo. I love the sound of it at WOT above 4000 RPM. The car is perfectly suited for driving school duty for an intermediate driver like me because steering, throttle and brake inputs are so direct. You get immediate feedback (positive and negative) yet it's forgiving enough to keep you out of trouble.

    It's simply a blast to drive and a joy to own.
  • heejoman, I think what you experienced can definitely be traced to the OEM tires, which are nothing more than all season affairs not especially suited for exceptional grip. By all accounts, shoeing the TSX with summer tires transforms the car.

    I should clarify: the TSX is a great handling SEDAN. I think it's a bit unfair to compare it to a relatively light coupe like the 'Lude. That car will almost always win the handling wars due physics alone.

    BMW is still the standard for sharp-handling sedans, and I'm not sure how the 325i you drove was equipped, but most Bimmers come right off the lot with higher performance tires than the TSX. BMW's also have the advantage of RWD.

    I've owned Accords, too, and I feel like the TSX kills the Accord in handling, with both being in stock form of course. However, this has been argued ad nauseum here and in other forums, and some believe the Accord is equal to the TSX in handling. YMMV.

    Not sure what you mean by "bubbly car."

    Better tires and one $115 upgrade can bring the TSX to the next level. That upgrade is a thicker aftermarket anti-sway bar. It would control the fishtailing you mentioned an lessen body roll. A-Spec suspension bits ($600) would raise the bar even higher.

    The TSX chassis has great potential. A couple of minor tweaks really open it up. Check some other sites for confirmation and video representation of what I claim.

    :shades:
  • Your right foot is like the conductor of an orchestra, and each section responds individually to every subtle direction you give it.

    NICE! I think R&T is hiring! :P

    First of all, I really think the TSX is closer in spirit to my '88 325is (E30) than the current BMW 3-series. In my opinion, the TSX has a light on its feet, tossable feeling that is somewhat lost on the more solid and heavy-feeling modern BMW's.

    Pretty good tribute to the TSX, I'd say.

    I love the way the E30 looks, and I think it has timeless lines that will look good for decades to come. With a nice coat of wax, it definitely turns more heads and starts more conversations than my TSX ever did.

    I'm repeating myself here, but I agree 100%. The E30 has the distinct advantage of looking very unlike 90% of the cars out there today. I'm not a huge fan of the trend towards higher beltlines; I prefer the E30's look much better.

    Thanks for the reply.
  • notjafonotjafo Posts: 63
    I'm a '95 Integra driver and I've been looking at the TSX and the TL as my next 4dr car, but the new Accord EX sedan 6cyl 6spd MT seems to be an interesting alternative to the TSX given it has more torque, more hp, and does it on regular gas at the same price. I did a search of the site and haven't seen this discussed. Have I missed it? Any thoughts?
  • waydewayde Posts: 198
    I haven't seen anything on this site, but there is a Honda enthusiast web site that has had this topic discussed several times.
    It is rather interesting to me also as I have the same situation - weighing the pros/cons of each vehicle since they are both around the same price.
    TSX - light, nimble, longer warranty, sportier handling, clean styling inside and out, bluetooth for 2006 are some pros. Cons - premium fuel, lack of torque.
    AV6 - power, torque, smoother ride, regular fuel, better exterior styling on 2006. Cons - no bluetooth (for me), little softer handling, exterior styling not as crisp as TSX.
    Again, these are my viewpoints :)
    Oh - and the Acura has the luxo-badge on it.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Hmm, I guess you missed the Honda Accord vs Acura TSX discussion. We have indeed been comparing those two vehicles. Hope anyone interested will join us there.
  • johnny420johnny420 Posts: 473
    That pretty well sums it up. You have to decide for yourself which car is best. From my POV, the TSX is just more fun to drive; better steering, sharper handling, better looking, but this topic has been argued ad nauseum here and on other sites.

    Certainly the Accord EX V6 with the 6MT will be appealing. It's about time Honda offered the manual tranny to its V6 drivers. If straight TQ and HP numbers are what is important to you, as it seems to be for most American drivers, then definitely go for the V6. You'll never be happy otherwise.

    If tight handling, quick steering, well-appointed interior and a fun-to-drive factor are important, then go with the TSX.

    Just keep in mind that the TSX is very well-balanced, and that quality is hard to quantify. After 21 months, I'm happier than ever that I traded in my Accord for my TSX. I look forward to driving it every chance I get. I never did with my EX V6. It was a very good car, it was just very boring.

    Life's too short to drive boring cars. Define your parameters.

    Hope this helps. :shades:
  • notjafonotjafo Posts: 63
    wayde-
    I did see that discussion which is why I asked my question here. Nothing has been posted there since May '05 and the '06 Accord EX 4dr w/ the 6spd MT was announced in early september '05, so it didn't atract any attention over there. Also, I'd be more interested in the Acura drivers perspective on the Accord than the Accord drivers perspective on the Acura.

    It seems to me that the only comparison from a TSX perspective is the 6cyl 6spd MT,
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    The place for this conversation is in the discussion I linked, not here. If you'll follow that link and post your thoughts, you'll get the feedback you are looking for.
This discussion has been closed.