I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

tjc78 · January 2013

In the case of the Town Car, I think it was a 6" stretch that took the wheelbase to something like 123.7" and overall length to 223.4? I wonder if the Crown Vic was just a 6-inch stretch of its wheelbase, or if they took it all the way to 123.7"?

The CV uses the same 6" stretch. I think Wiki is wrong on the wheelbase. It shows the TC as being 3" longer. I don't believe that is accurate for 92+ models.

In the boxy years the TC had a longer WB than CV/GM and even the AOD transmission had a longer tailshaft.

***Edit*** after checking a few sources it does appear that the TC is still on a longer WB.

dieselone · January 2013

Well just because the used market has far more v6 models vs. V8s doesn't mean you don't see a more equal number out on the roads. It's likely the v6 model is bought and dumped by fleets and owners probably won't be as happy with the v6 trim. My neighbor didn't keep his v6 lucerne 2 years.

ab348 · January 2013

The back seat in those Town Car "L" models is huge, but unless you are running a livery service I can't see the value in owning one. It's not like the back seat in the regular model is small.

I think if I were you I would consider a 300 over a Charger. The interior is just so much nicer.

You've mentioned the Lucerne before, but even though I like Buicks, I was never all that enamored of them. The 3800 would be overmatched, and the 3.9 is derived from the Chevy V-6s which I always thought were crude. BTW, GM never put the 3.6/6-speed combo in either the Lacrosse or the Lucerne. The Lacrosse 3.6 had a 4-speed. Something about the package with the 6-speed not fitting in the engine cradle or whatnot was the reason. I know I was surprised how tight the 3800 was in the engine compartment of my Lacrosse. The power steering pump was hard up against the firewall and barely accessible.

andre1969 · January 2013

One thing that always threw me off is that, at some point wheelbases on those Panthers changed slightly. Starting in 1979, the Ford and Mercury versions were 114.3" and when Lincoln joined for 1980, its models were on a 117.3" wb, although the Mark VI coupe was on the 114.3".

But, starting in 1993 (odd, since the changeover was 1992), my book shows the Crown Vic going to 114.4" through 2002, which is as recent as my book goes. I wonder if that's a typo though, because the Grand Marquis stays as 114.3 all the way through 2002.

This same book shows the Town Car going from 117.3" to 117.4" in 1991, and then to 117.7" for 1998.

Sometimes, I wonder if those are just rounding errors. For example, I've seen some of GM's '77-90 B-bodies listed at 115.9", and some at 116.0".

For 1977, the Newport/New Yorker are listed at 124.0", 123.9" for 1978.

And one oddity...the 1974 LeSabre is listed at 124", 123.5" for 1975, 124" for 1976.

I'm sure most of those must be rounding errors, or in the case of the LeSabre, a typo. I can't imagine the auto makers doing such minute changes to the wheelbases like that.

dieselone · January 2013

BTW, GM never put the 3.6/6-speed combo in either the Lacrosse or the Lucerne. The Lacrosse 3.6 had a 4-speed. Something about the package with the 6-speed not fitting in the engine cradle or whatnot was the reason.

Strange considering they found a way to put the 3.6/6 speed in the Impala.

ab348 · January 2013

Yeah, I know. They must have redesigned the cradle or the trans case. Or, they were lying.

andre1969 · January 2013

It's likely the v6 model is bought and dumped by fleets and owners probably won't be as happy with the v6 trim. My neighbor didn't keep his v6 lucerne 2 years.

That's what I'm thinking. When the Lucerne came out, its sales were way down compared to the LeSabre it replaced. However, the LeSabre was becoming a fleet queen, itself, with most of the Custom models being sent that way. With the Lucerne, they cut back seriously on fleet sales.

So, the ratio of V-6 to V-8 models probably was more evenly split than most people would think. But, like you said, the V-6 buyers probably dumped them more quickly, where the V-8 owners would cherish what they had, and hold onto them longer.

I probably could get by with a 3.8 or 3.9 Lucerne, as it's not all that often I floor the Park Ave, or my Ram for that matter. Most of the time, I'm trying to see how high I can get the instant mpg readout on the Park Ave to go (or in the Ram, get it to where the readout says ECO ON, which means it's running on 6 cylinders). But, it's nice to have that power when you need it!

stickguy · January 2013

OK, I admit I did not keep up with this thread, but why are you looking at new cars? I thought you were going to buy the Ram, sell the Buick to the roommate, and use the ram and your fleet to back it up?

lemko · January 2013

Don't forget to look for a well-cared-for Pontiac G8!

lemko · January 2013

Trouble is, I think those long wheelbase models would probably be beat to heck because they were probably used in livery service.

andre1969 · January 2013

I thought you were going to buy the Ram, sell the Buick to the roommate, and use the ram and your fleet to back it up?

Umm, for lack of a better excuse, separation anxiety?

imidazol97 · January 2013

The Hemmings Classic Car came to the mailbox today. On the cover is a 60s Studebaker convertible. Uplander will be very happy to see this. What year is this doll on the cover.

The editor's page talks about the ugliest cars he and submitters determined to be the Aztek and the 1961 Plymouth--all of them.

Now he's asking for submissions for most beautiful car. I'd give him this for one of my memorable cars.

1949 Roadmaster convertible sedan. Even the license plate says "beautiful."
Makes me remember the movie On Golden Pond. Add Audrey Hepburn driving with a scarf blowing in the wind behind here and the car would be complete.

Click picture for 600x800 version

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Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

"beautiful" is not a term that should be handed out lightly--it should mean a car that is beautiful ALL OVER---not dramatic, or highly styled---but *harmonized* beauty---that is, every part of it agrees with every other part.

That Buick has great lines!

There are lots of cars with a pretty front and a butt ugly back, (or vice-versa) or with fabulous fins and nothing else to recommend it, or a lovely front and back and a very bad roofline----you get the picture.

If one says that "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" then you would have to agree with anyone who said an Aztek was "the most beautiful car on earth".

So watch what you say! :P

ateixeira · January 2013

If I had to pick nits, it has a big, uh, rear. Then again Jimmy Hoffa was probably stuffed in there so they needed the room.

No doubt a beautiful car.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

Yes but it's a "coherent" big rear....on an elephant, a big rear is perfect for the rest of what the animal looks like. :P He wouldn't look good with a horse's tail, or with stripes on his butt.

Someone once told me that the car designer's best friend would be someone standing behind his drawing board or computer, wielding a baseball bat.

Then he'd know exactly when to stop.

ateixeira · January 2013

I already love Fridays and you've made mine better, I therefore thank you.

fintail · January 2013

That best friend needs to visit the Nissan and Lexus design houses, stat :shades:

fintail · January 2013

You must like "Rain Man" then - a 49 Buick is one of the stars of the show:

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

I actually appraised that car some years ago---or one of them, at any rate. Let's just say in terms of condition, that "the camera was very forgiving".

Perhaps it's been restored since then--it sure needed it.

uplanderguy · January 2013

That Lark on the cover of the new Hemmings Classic Car (mine came today too), is a '60. I have to say, I hate the skirts on it though!

No other compact had a convertible in '60, although that of course soon changed.

I'm not really a big-Buick fan of that period, but I think they way the hood opens is cool.

andre1969 · January 2013

I'm not really a big-Buick fan of that period, but I think they way the hood opens is cool.

I don't think Buicks really started exciting me until 1955-56. The '54 was the same basic body, but I just didn't like the droopy look of the headlights.

That '49 is nice, though. I think it looks nicer than most of its peers. The DeSotos and Chryslers are pretty stodgy in comparison, and even GM's own Oldsmobile really isn't that attractive to me...front end has sort of a big-mouth bass look to it. The Lincoln looked a lot more modern IMO, but was nowhere near as attractive. If anything, kinda vulgar. And that year's Packard was in major need of a C-section!

uplanderguy · January 2013

When I was a kid, my mother's older brother on Staten Island had an old, I think, '54 Buick convertible. It was a mongrel (remember I was born in '58!). My mother's younger brother would rib him to unload it.

I remember certain Buicks of that '54-56 period actually had an emblem on the decklid that said "1955 Buick" and the like! Talk about planned obsolescence!

I think Cadillacs actually said "Nineteen-Fifty-Six" on their instrument panel, on the passenger side!

EDIT: I remembered that correctly! The guy who lived behind us, who sold Dad our new '67 Chevelle, had a creamy white '56 Sixty-Special he used to pull a trailer with--it had the neat gold wheels. That's where I believe I first saw those nameplates.

http://chromeography.com/post/36351554321/1956-cadillac-coupe-de-ville-by-lauri-- johnston

fintail · January 2013

I think I remember it seeing go to auction a couple years ago. I am sure in the 25 years since the film, it aged, and was probably never perfect to begin with. If a 10 footer can look mint in person, it will on camera,

fintail · January 2013

Hilarious, talk about a goofy/dumb idea. In 1965, I am sure everyone wanted a car that was labeled "1956" (as if a 1956 Caddy didn't look a million years old by 1965 as it was). Heck, even by 1961, done.

Styling ages slower today, which isn't a bad thing.

lemko · January 2013

This silver Buick has the wrong wheel covers. Those are from a 1957 Cadillac.

ab348 · January 2013

I have subscribed to that magazine since it started - I actually was a Special Interest Autos subscriber, and carried on automatically when they converted it to Hemmings Classic Car. I have never been a fan of the editor and his positions on various things, and the idea of talking about ugliest or most beautiful cars just seems like a waste of space. They have a lot of wastes of space in there now. I really miss SIA and wish they would go back to that format.

imidazol97 · January 2013

>about ugliest or most beautiful cars just seems like a waste of space....wastes of space...

I enjoy a lot of their one page articles which probably are ones you consider wastes of space. The article by someone who worked in the auto industry in the past, a different one each month, I find interesting.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

I'm interested in seeing what is generally regarded as beautiful and ugly, since those types of opinions dovetail into market values, as well as give me tip offs on what bargains might be out there. Naturally like most humans beings, I glow in the warmth of self-righteousness when Hemmings Classics verifies that the cars I thought were ugly, are, in fact, ugly.

Generally i agree with most of what they say except when they get to their 'future classics" articles---I really have to scratch my head over some of their choices, because most often their choices are dead in the water in the marketplace and in most people's consciousness.

I'm a big believer in the "loved when new...then loved when old" school of thinking.

fintail · January 2013

Spotted a beautiful white W126 on chrome disc wheels this evening, and a C43 AMG.

uplanderguy · January 2013

I like their one-page articles, like "I Was There" (people who worked in the industry 'back then') and "Reminiscing" (peoples' personal experiences with a car; we all have similar stories). I like getting it every month and there is great photography IMHO. That said, Special Interest Autos was every other month I believe, and a little more 'scholarly' I think. I always liked their 'driveReports', where they would test three competing old cars in the way Car and Driver or Motor Trend would test current competing models.

This month's HCC has an column on the crashing of the '59 Chevy and '09 Malibu, which we discussed here a couple weeks ago.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

What did they say about that? My subscription just expired so I didn't read it. I imagine they were not too pleased.

uplanderguy · January 2013

They weren't too pleased.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

I wonder if they would express similar displeasure at someone who took an old classic, chopped the roof, slammed it, and air brushed the image of an Aztec god on it?

robr2 · January 2013

Spotted a beautiful white W126 on chrome disc wheels this evening

Really fin??? I never thought I would hear the words beautiful, W126 and chrome wheels used together by you.

robr2 · January 2013

...saw one this morning. Red with white top. Tail lights looked like this:

ab348 · January 2013

I enjoy a lot of their one page articles which probably are ones you consider wastes of space. The article by someone who worked in the auto industry in the past, a different one each month, I find interesting.

No, I like those, along with the reminiscences articles uplanderguy mentioned. I am referring to the multi-page spreads they seem to do every issue with somebody's list of the 50 best whatevers, which really are not very useful or interesting. I find the Driveable Dream articles very hit-or-miss, with some of them simply being about poorly maintained old cars. The Mechanical Marvels section, while potentially quite good, seems to be written in a way that makes most of them either indecipherable or useless, to the point where I don't even try to finish reading them now. And the columnists are generally uninteresting.

The current issue came this week in the mail and I still haven't even taken it out of the mailing bag.

uplanderguy · January 2013

Oh, I think "Hemmings Classic Car" would be upset at that.

Now, "Hot Rod Deluxe"...not so.

uplanderguy · January 2013

That's a '67. The Coronet 500 was a sharp automobile IMO.

In my hometown there was a '66 Coronet 500 hardtop (similar) that was bone-stock and painted in a violet color much like Chevy's '65 Evening Orchid. Even as a kid the car stopped me in my tracks. It was owned by the owner of Daisley's Electric.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

Hmmm....I wonder if they'd be upset, since Hot Rods are in the "brotherhood" and all that. They might not wish to offend other hobbyists, while it is quite fashionable to hate the government these days and keep their readership paranoid. :P

fintail · January 2013

The disc wheels in chrome are a period correct option, and I think they look good on some cars. I had a set of chromes on my diamond blue W126, and I think they looked nice.

Here's a car similar to what I saw, with (dirty appearing in this pic) chrome disc wheels:

I do dislike chromes on newer cars. Like this - love the car, hate the wheels

berri · January 2013

My Driver's Ed car was a 65 Coronet. It wasn't a stripper either, maybe a 440? At first I was upset because the other two cars were a Chevy Impala and a Ford either Galaxie 500 or LTD, but the Coronet was a good driving vehicle. Even though the area I grew up in was mostly lower middle class, there were a lot of car dealers there and some better off nearby suburbs. The dealers got signs on the driver's ed cars with their name on them, so maybe that is why they were all so well equipped. Or maybe there was some good tax deductions involved? Actually, they only used them in summer and then sold them off once school started back up - and they seemed to sell quickly.

stickguy · January 2013

at the Philly car show. They had a classics display, and this was some high end stuff. Super rare models too. a 1932 MG Magnette that ran in some famous race (finsihed 4th, highest ever by an MG), a '30s alfa racer, a 1905 Queen E (?), only 1 left, a '55ish custom something, a wood Buick camp wagon, '63 Spitfire and XKE (gorgeous), a '73 Carerra RS lightweight that raced in Europe, a Delahaye, and a bunch more I can't remember.

uplanderguy · January 2013

This car further proves to me that clean, original/authentic non-Cosworth Vegas are so unusual, they often bring as much if not more bid interest on eBay than the Cosworths which are always on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Other-GT-Rare-1976-Chevrolet-Vega-GT-Al- l-Original-Near-Mint-5-Speed-Only-35K-No-Reserve-/261153767684?pt=US_Cars_Trucks- &hash=item3ccdfa4104

There are only two things I don't like on this Vega--the venetian blinds on the back window (easily remedied), and the cheap aftermarket side moldings which one has to wonder if removed, if they will mar the paint. Why do people put those moldings on cars? I see it frequently and I'd rather have a parking lot nick than those damn things!

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

Well at least we know what the best Vega in the world is worth 35 years later. Not a pot of gold at the end of any Vega rainbow, but I hope the car finds a good home. The Vega is definitely a part of American automotive history, and still remembered, even if it's in a totally notorious way, and that deserves preservation I think. The car's past makes it interesting, unlike some cars, which really have no past.

stickguy · January 2013

I actually like it.

then again, no one ever said I have good taste.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

Hey, the Vega is a fairly nice-looking car. I don't think anyone ever knocked the styling very hard.

I thought it was interesting, that in the eBay had, someone is *still* defending the car's engine--or rather making excuses for it---some 35 years later.

You'd think that this wouldn't even be in most people's consciousness after all these years---I mean, who remembers the weaknesses in the engine of a 1976 Cadillac?

About nobody.

But the Vega was such a lightning rod for America's ills that the legend lives on, so to speak.

I think it's fascinating that this controversial car still sparks debate. The Vega is LOADED with memories of the so-called "Decline of the Big Three" and the "Labor Problems with the UAW" and the "Rise of the Japanese Car"---all that stuff still swirls around the Vega.

There are few cars that would start so many conversations at a local show and shine.

fintail · January 2013

I don't mind the Vega either, the wagon was pretty handsome. I'd even leave the louvers on this car - a definite period piece.

hpmctorque · January 2013

Okay, I'll bite, what were the weakenesses of the '76 Cadillac engine?

uplanderguy · January 2013

I don't mind the Vega either, the wagon was pretty handsome. I'd even leave the louvers on this car - a definite period piece.

If this car were a wagon, and didn't have the dopey side molding, I'd maybe consider it! In a perfect world, it'd have white-lettered tires too.

Someone else said a week or so ago that the '76 Chevy 'sport cloth' looked like a 'Herb Tarlek sport coat' and I agree (!)--it's probably more comfortable than the more-seen all-vinyl trim. The GT with Custom interior option (as the eBay car has) had a nice interior and instrument panel I always thought. An old high-school friend who now has the one Cosworth Vega our small hometown dealer got in--a '75--has the black cloth interior and it's much more tasteful IMO--subtle. If you got the black cloth on a '76 Cosworth, it, too, had the "Tarlek" look.

BTW, the Vega "Custom Interior" (as on this specimen) has the identical seats as the Camaro Sport Coupe, through the years.

uplanderguy · January 2013

My Driver's Ed car was a 65 Coronet.

My sister and her first husband's first car was a used '65 Coronet 440, with 318 engine.

Her husband's parents at the time had a '65 Pontiac Grand Prix, which I just fell in love with. I couldn't believe a car could have an instrument panel like that!

One summer day I rode with them in the Grand Prix to visit a family friend in Pittsburgh. The Grand Prix sat low, and had rather flat vinyl seats.

When we got back to Greenville, I climbed in the Coronet 440, which sat higher, and had well-padded cloth seats, and the short ride home actually seemed more comfortable than the Grand Prix!

My brother-in-law disagreed and I'd still rather have the Grand Prix today (!), but there was nothing wrong with that Coronet, 'til the tops of the fenders started rusting out a la Vega.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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