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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,817
    Uplander,

    Those are all really good examples, however, IMHO the simple biggest ergonomic flaw was in the early 80s Ford decided to put the horn on the turn signal stalk. That is bonehead, defined.

    The HVAC controls on the left is something Chrysler did in the 80s with the Omni/Charger

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • hoosiergrandadhoosiergrandad Member Posts: 96
    Picking a nit...........seems to me the left hand threads were on the passenger side. I remember when I was growing up it wasn't too unusual to yank on a lug wrench a time or two before realizing you were pulling in the wrong direction. Most of the tires I changed as a kid were on Pontiacs and Internationals......not sure if both had left hand threads , but at least one of them did.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,639
    I tried to google some info on left-hand lugs, but stuff was spotty...mainly just questions on message boards and such. But, apparently, GM used left-hand lugs on their cars up through 1963. I'm not sure when Chrysler finally did away with them. Both of my Darts, the '69 and '68 had them, although when I put the 8 3/4 rear end in the '68, I think it had right-hand threads on both sides.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    edited March 2013
    Those are all really good examples, however, IMHO the simple biggest ergonomic flaw was in the early 80s Ford decided to put the horn on the turn signal stalk. That is bonehead, defined.

    How could I have forgotten that one? That was boneheaded! Similarly, but not quite as bad, is on '69 and '70 Chevy models, to blow the horn you had to push one of two little buttons on the end of the center steering wheel bar. Thankfully, someone figured out by '71 that you should be able to push anyplace on the center bar to get the horn to work! I think 'rim blow' horns were a good idea executed poorly in cars I was familiar with that had them.

    The only way I knew about Chrysler lugs was, a friend of my Mom's had a '65 full-size Dodge wagon and when she went to leave our house, it had a flat. My Dad, home not long from a day of work, went to change it for her and grumpily later complained about that 'feature'. He had only owned one Mopar, and that was a '37 Plymouth. ;)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    I had a '60 Falcon, and it may have been to equalize the labor. When starting the car and getting moving you had to set the choke, engage the starter, put it in gear, and release the brake. The brake was on the left, so you could start the car and release the brake with the left hand while setting the choke and put it in gear with the right. Just a guess.

    I think that's an excellent guess; I had forgotten about that. My parents' last Ford product was a '62 Fairlane, six with stick and it had a manual choke. I was surprised to learn years later that a same year Studebaker Lark had an automatic choke, but Ford products (at least Falcon and Fairlane) still had manual chokes. Which reminds me...why did Ford still have two steering columns visible into the early '60's...a small and a bigger one? Now, that isn't a matter of Ford not having any money (like Studebaker or possibly Rambler some years)--just...why?

    And BTW, I'd just love to own a bone-stock '61 Ford Galaxie 500 Starliner hardtop, with the "two columns".
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    Why did '63 and '64 full-size Chevys have a "Cold" light?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I have weird little nit-picks, and Celebrity gauges were one of them. Even our Ciera seemed better. Something about the Chevy instruments just rubbed me the wrong way (and I was just a kid). I am sure your car was pretty nice looking for 1985 - my dad had a brown on brown/tan 85 S-10 Blazer - not so stylish.

    I like the instrument fonts on 60s cars, usually thin and tall, they just look cool.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I kind of miss my single wiper MBs - its one thing that catches my eye too much on the new car. The MB single wipers fly across the windshield, normal wipers move really slow. I think it was implemented to clear more of the windscreen, but was just too odd and probably complex to catch on.

    For the cold light, I swear my 66 Galaxie had something like that...or maybe I just have bad memories of it constantly stalling until it reached full operating temperature.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,123
    >why did Ford still have two steering columns visible into the early '60's

    I couldn't figure out what you meant by two steering columns. But the top is a rod for the gear shift or auto transmission selector. The bottom column is the actual steering column. Is that what you mean?

    >My parents' last Ford product was a '62 Fairlane, six with stick and it had a manual choke.

    The six-cylinder models had a manual choke. The V8s had an automatic choke. This was true in the 1960 Ford.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    I liked the outside mount wipers on our 1995 Caravan. The ones where they met in the middle, and both moved up and out. Took some getting used to, since they looked "different" but seemed to do a better job in coverage.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Those are similar to what the fintail has, and many MB used through the mid 70s. Some call them "clap hands" wipers. I think the new style Focus uses similar wipers too.

    W116/126/R107 etc had strange wipers too - 2 hinged near the middle, different lengths. W140 had wipers reversed from the normal pattern for LHD cars.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669
    I liked my single Scirocco wiper OK. Better than lots of dual wipers that have the right hand wiper stop right in front of me, wiping the same area twice while blocking my view.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,464
    For the cold light, I swear my 66 Galaxie had something like that

    You are right. I remember a '65 Custom (stripper) that my high-school friend's father had as a company car. It had a cold light, which glowed blue. It amused the heck out of us, cut I never did find out what it was for. Maybe to explain why the performance of the six cylinder engine was even more pathetic than usual.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    How 'bout BMW, putting the directional signals on the right side for many years?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,639
    My '67 Newport had a "cold" light as well, although the first time I had ever heard about them was in the early 1960's Chevies. I always thought it was a cost cutting move. Instead of giving you a real temperature gauge, instead they'd give you idiot lights. The red one, which we're all more familiar with, comes on when the engine is running too hot. But the blue one (on my Newport I think it was a fairly icy, washed-out blue) is supposed to come on when you first start the car and it's warming up, and when it goes off, the car is supposedly warm enough to start driving.

    At least, that was my take on it. In some ways, I guess it's a good idea. With a gauge, there's really no way to tell once a car is getting warm, until you see the needle start to creep. And sometimes, that can take a long time!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    edited March 2013
    This has been a fun subject I think. I've learned some stuff I hadn't known about, too. Shifty, I wasn't aware of BMW's directional signal lever being on the right hand side..but when you lived in Greenville, PA, a BMW was a very strange thing to see if at all!

    You're right imidazo, by 'two columns' I meant the second, smaller shaft for the transmission selector lever. Sloppy wording on my part.

    I knew that the early '60's Fords with a manual choke were only the sixes, and I actually had guessed that they were only the stick shifts (for some reason). But I was surprised that even six-cylinder Larks had automatic chokes at the same time, considering how poor Studebaker was supposed to be at that time.

    I'm scratching my head, but I think I'll probably come up with more oddball stuff over the years, that's not related to styling or no developmental money.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,817
    edited March 2013
    I liked the outside mount wipers on our 1995 Caravan

    We had a 96 Town and Country at work and the first time I drove it in the rain it caught me off-guard. They did work well clearing that monster windshield.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Aaargh!!! My Dad had a 1981 Ford Thunderbird Town Landau. I HATED that turn-signal stalk horn! Theres a HUGE hub in the center of the wheel to put a horn and yet some knucklehead at Ford put it in the turn signal stalk!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited March 2013
    I believe current Subarus have this feature.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2013
    Kerrect.

    The temp guage went away so now you get a blue light, which turns off once engine temps reach normal levels.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,639
    I wonder how long it usually takes for the light to go away? I have a friend who used to have a 1998 Tracker, and he would usually wait until the temp gauge started to register before he'd drive off. Sometimes, that could be a good 5 minutes!

    Nowadays, I usually don't wait more than 30 seconds to let a car warm up. Unless it's a *really* cold day, and/or it's been sitting for a long time. Then I might go as long as a minute, and then, once I'm moving, just try to drive gently for a bit, until it gets warmed up better.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited March 2013
    I looked it up, and it all came back to me. No temp gauge, but a cold light in a cluster of idiot lights just to the right of the clock, which was under the speedometer, above the steering wheel. No temp gauge is kind of cheesy. My car had a 390, which seemed to take forever to warm up, a good 10 minutes after starting, it would still like to stumble and stall.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Or the stalk mounted cruise control for MB, which seems to vex idiot journalists and uninitiated drivers. It works fine once you think about it though, there's a logic to it. I've read it will go away in the future :sick:

    Console mounted window switches for MB also seem to attract attention.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I give it a few seconds to establish oil pressure, but then drive off. Just take it easy, no heavy load or high revs until it's warm.

    Takes between 1-2 miles to turn off, depends on the outside temps, so it's pretty quick.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,817
    GM and Chrysler had stalk mounted cruise for years, it's not like you use it everytime you drive.

    I think Ford was the first to put it on the steering wheel, my 79 Continental had it.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 18,980
    I want to like that Bonneville, but it looks like it needs a full paint job and the car gives me the feeling it's lived a bit of a tough life.

    Of the downsized GM full-sizers for '77, I like the Bonneville a lot. The Buick had the dash I prefer but not by much and the styling on the Buicks wasn't as good as these. I like the Olds styling but not the interior, while the Chevy had cool styling on the coupe but nothing else that I liked.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,639
    Console mounted window switches for MB also seem to attract attention.

    I always looked at that as a cost-cutting move. The '88 LeBaron coupe that we had, which I let the ex-wife take in the divorce, had the power window switches in the console rather than the doors. It probably does save a bit of money, as you just have the two switches in the console, rather than a master switch int he driver's door, and a switch in the passenger door.

    IIRC, the PT Cruiser convertible, which had roll-down rear windows, had all four switches in the console, so rear seat passengers had no control at all of the windows back there.

    I guess those center-mounted switches are okay once you get used to them...I just never did!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    On a MB, the cruise stalk is on the left, some claim they confuse it with the turn signal. I think one would have to be careless to do that.

    I remember the rocker style cruise switches on old Ford wheels.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    That's exactly what it was - cost cutting, or really, being more efficient, as that way the car would be universal for LHD and RHD markets, as MB sells everywhere. But finally they relented, about 10 years ago, and the switches are all now on the doors.

    IIRC, the normal PT had window switches high on the dash - that was odd. My mother had one as a rental several years ago, and that drove her nuts.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,639
    If I could have any full-sized GM car from 1977, I think it would be a fully-optioned Catalina. I prefer its style to the Bonneville, as it's less fussy, and the clean grille design almost looks sporty for a big 70's car. I guess the only down-side is that the Catalina isn't all that luxurious inside, so I'd have to trade off the opulent, Fredericks-Of-Tijuana style luxury that was so in vogue back then.

    I like the Buick's dashboard for its style, but didn't like those silver-faced gauge faces, or the big clock mounted on the passenger side. By the time 1985 rolled around and my Grandparents bought their LeSabre, the gauge faces were black, and the clock was digital, in the radio face. Two other minuses of the Buick dash...the glovebox was really tiny for a full-sized car, and I don't think Buick offered extra gauges, as Pontiac, Olds, and Chevy did.

    With Chevy, I preferred the Impala to the Caprice, and for the same reasons as the Catalina versus Bonneville. The grille just seemed a bit less fussy and pretentious.

    Style-wise overall, I think the Olds Delta 88 would be my least favorite, but I think I'd be happy with any of those B/C bodies...as long as I didn't get stuck with an under-sized/undesireable engine.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,639
    That's exactly what it was - cost cutting, or really, being more efficient, as that way the car would be universal for LHD and RHD markets, as MB sells everywhere.

    Actually, that would make sense, for a car that's sold in world markets. But I guess if MB is putting them on the doors, we whiny Americans much have raised enough of a ruckus!
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    "Why did '63 and '64 full-size Chevys have a "Cold" light? "

    We had a 1963 Chevy and my parennts used the cold light in the winter as a signal that it was time to turn the heaters and defroster on.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I always looked at that as a cost-cutting move. The '88 LeBaron coupe that we had, which I let the ex-wife take in the divorce, had the power window switches in the console rather than the doors.

    My 87 Daytona had the two window switches in the console - right next to the driver power seat switch. The first day I had it, my girlfriend (now wife) tried to put raise her window but wound up using the power seat switch. She's cursing that the window doesn't work while I'm slow moving towards the steering wheel....
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I HATED that turn-signal stalk horn!

    I remember there was a period of time when most Ford products had that dumb idea. I may be wrong, but I seem to recall running into it on a different brand rental once also, maybe a Plymouth or Dodge?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My 1980 Mustang had that, really dumb placement for a horn.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The Renault Dauphine had a stalk you pushed inward and a switch so that you could have a city horn and a country horn! The MGA had the horn as a big black button smack in the middle of the dashboard.

    I always wanted a horn in the driver's seat cushion :P
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669
    My dad had and my brother has a Maserati Indy ('72) with that 'country horn/city horn', the country being the normal place, the city being a stalk you push in.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A whoopee cushion? :D
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I remember there was a period of time when most Ford products had that dumb idea.

    That came with the original Escort. Remember it was a world car and in Europe horns were stalk mounted.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I always wanted a horn in the driver's seat cushion.

    Don't worry - you already have one. As you get older, it activates itself....
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    That was an option on MB W126 as well, I think standard on 560 SEL. There was a rocker switch low on the console to select the tone.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 18,980
    I think the '69/'70 Ford radio was simply a victim of design - that swept-away dash didn't make good use of the real estate stretching across the car, so everything had to be clustered in front of the driver. Even the ash tray jutted out from the side of the instrument panel.

    The same may be true of the Chevy but I am less sure of that.

    The cold light was featured on most full-size GM cars of that era I think. I know our '63 Pontiac had one, sort of a lime-green color IIRC. Seemed rather useless but interesting.

    The stalk horn was a Euro thing that I think Ford tried copying on the Fox platform to give it a Euro sensibility. We had an Austin 1100 in the late '60s that had one, and our family had a number of Bristish cars that had it also. Dumb use of the multifunction stalk concept.

    One thing that always bothered me (this is an expansion of the list): we owned a '68 Volvo and it had one inidcator light on the dash for directional signals, not two. All it told you was that something was flashing, but not if it was the left or right directional. I guess it saved something in cost but it always struck me as a dumb concept.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 18,980
    I owned/drove 3 of the 4 GM downsized B/C-bodies - a '79 Impala, a '78 Delta 88, and a '79 Electra. The silver-faced Buick gauges on the '79 dash really looked rich and I liked the big clock over on the passenger side. It was a throwback to the Buick dashes of the late 40s/early 50s. Comparing that dash to, say, that of a '79 Olds 98 would really make the Olds come up short. It looked like someone actually designed the Buick dash, whereas the Olds dash always struck me as having stuff randomly placed on it.

    Talking about cruise control: my '78 Delta 88 has a cruise on/off rocker switch towards the center of the dash, with a button on the end of the turn signal stalk to set speed. Always seemed odd to me.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,817
    edited March 2013
    I thnk 80s Hondas also had a wierd Cruise on/off switch nowhere near the set/accel buttons.

    Honda also had the moonroof control to the left of the steering wheel at some point.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Worse than tricky seats with horn buttons, I test drove a new 1990 Plymouth Laser which was ruined by those awful motorized seat belts. I mean, what else could they do to make a simple task annoying? Ignition key on the floor or what? :shades:
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Here's a great video of hot rods in Sweden--notice how "pure" the rat rods are---as ugly and dangerous as god intended! There are also some "normal" cars, and I must say, some very vague notions of what "tech inspection" and "track safety" are all about. They all look like they are really having fun.

    Plenty of obscure stuff here, too. Video is 9 minutes and lots of engine noises.

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/owvxPNNUQkM?feature=player_embedded
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    ....someone earlier here mentioned this, ahem, 'feature'. My '63, '64, and '66 Studebaker Daytonas had that too, and I'd noticed that at least '64-67 Pontiac GTO/Tempest/LeMans models, if not later ones, were like that too. That is kind of dumb.

    Here's one--why didn't early Corvairs and Tempests have a 'park' feature in their automatic transmissions?

    Why did AMC use vacuum wipers 'til '71 I believe? Sheesh!

    Someone earlier mentioned liking the 'opposing' windshield wipers. I don't know why, but I always equated that with large or expensive cars, so I liked that feature too. Our Venture vans had that feature (can't recall on the Uplander...it probably did), and that was also a feature I liked on the '88 Buick Regal when it came out. I'll assume the Cutlass Supreme, Grand Prix, and Lumina were like that too.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    why didn't early Corvairs and Tempests have a 'park' feature in their automatic transmissions?

    Did any model year Corvair with Powerglide come with a PARK position? I think my mom's Corvair Monza was a 1966 and the dash-mount lever just had the R-N-D-L selection. Might have been different with the Tempest having the front engine layout.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,639
    I thought the government started requiring a "Park" position on automatic transmissions at some point in the 1960's, along with standardized quadrants. I believe that's what led to the demise of the pushbutton Torqueflite.

    BTW, my '57 Desoto has no "park", either. You just pull the handbrake, which then clamps down on the driveshaft. For 1960, I think Chrysler started including a separate lever that you'd push to put the car in park.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    edited March 2013
    I thought the government started requiring a "Park" position on automatic transmissions at some point in the 1960's...

    So that's what Ralph meant by "unsafe at any speed."
    Silly automatic Corvairs had no PARK to put in! :D

    Searched for an interior pic of a '66 Corvair with powerglide. Resolution too big to post it here but click on the link to show R-N-D-L detail on the dash.

    edited to add: Does your '57 Desoto have reverse position at the top of the shift quadrant or the bottom?
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
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