I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

uplanderguy · May 2013

I can just picture that Buick. A barge, of course, but nicely styled. I always liked how the four-door hardtops in '75 and '76 had that extra window in the "C" pillar--most stylish IMHO on the Pontiac Bonneville, Buick Electra, Olds Ninety-Eight, and Cadillac, a little less so on lesser Chevs-Pontiacs-Buicks-Oldses.

uplanderguy · May 2013

That's an old Pontiac Montana--or maybe even the "TransSport Montana" if it's old enough.

By all accounts, the Uplander, Buick Terraza, and '05-06 Montana were sales duds, but Pontiac actually only built their revised van for two model years! Amazing.

Having had two Ventures before our Uplander, the Ventures rode softer, the Uplander did better in crash tests, and I think the Uplander, with its big tires, aluminum wheels, and revised interior, looked better, but it rode hard I think. I always wondered if the increased crashworthiness contributed to that. It was reliable and cheap to operate in the 94K miles we put on ours.

magnette · May 2013

The 3-litre six in the MGC isn't the same engine as the one used in the Autin-Healey. Instead it was the same engine used in the Austin 3-litre (a larger RWD version of the Austin 1800) and it was not suitable for a sportscar, although I've known people with them here who have liked the C because it is more of a tourer.
MG finally got it right using the Rover 3.5 V8 (ex Buick) which was a load faster, lighter etc, but by then it was too late and it never saw any development - the engineers at British Leyland probably deserve medals for what they developed on a budget measured in pence sometimes but the bean-counters should have been charged with treason for the way they ran our car industry...(Guess which ones actually got the knighthoods - with the notable exception of the great engineer Issigonis, of course).

toomanyfumes · May 2013

Hey, is that a curb feeler on the front of that New Yorker, or is it just the photo?

berri · May 2013

I'm thinking that the 63/64 Cadillac's were never all that popular with Caddy fans. But I always kind of liked them. They just seemed kind of clean looking without a lot of excess baggage. In 65 they seemed to get a little plumper again.

berri · May 2013

I always though that vintage of Chrysler was rather stately looking. There was a kind of creme or beige color that I think was popular on them and looked very nice on it.

fintail · May 2013

Hmm never heard of that, will have to look out for it. Caught part of "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" last week, where the bad guys have a fintail that crashes on ice and blows up (of course).

Nothing particularly odd spotted on the road today, oldest car was a MB W123 I think.

fintail · May 2013

Funny line, a "new 1979 car" - I bet people today would go insane at malaise era car quirks. I remember my friend's 83 Monte Carlo would run on/diesel if turned off with the AC on.

I think I see the curb feeler, too.

lemko · May 2013

I loved the 1963 Cadillac! When I was a very little kid, a neighbor had a big black 1963 Sedan DeVille. I asked my Dad what kind of car that was and he said it was a Cadillac. I have been in love with Cadillac ever since then.

uplanderguy · May 2013

Around our parts, I always saw a lot of '63-64 Cadillacs, which made me assume they sold better than earlier or later models, but just guessing.

The '65 Cadillac is my favorite. Love the instrument panel before a lot of crash padding needed to be added. After a few years, it seems like the separate cornering lights began to sag, though. They were integrated in '66 which took care of the problem.

andre1969 · May 2013

Initially, I was going to guess that the reason you saw more '63-64 Caddies was that they built more than '61-62, as the economy kept improving, while in '65-66, even though they were even more popular, build quality started slipping, so they didn't last as long? But then, here are the production figures, which I found at the site http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/

1961: 138,379
1962: 160,840
1963: 163,174
1964: 165,909
1965: 182,435
1966: 196,685

So, while 1961 was a comparatively low year, '62-64 were all pretty close, and there's not a HUGE jump between '61-62 sales and 63-64. Maybe 10% total. '65-66 looked like a healthy increase, though.

I think the '62 Caddy is my favorite, although I like the '61 as well. I just like the clean, crisp lines and overall sleekness of them.

andre1969 · May 2013

Nah, you got it right, that's a curb feeler! Something I'd normally associate with pimpy big-city life, but this car lived most of its life in Pennsylvania, in the rural area south of Harrisburg (it was in Middletown when I "rescued" it).

My other '79, a 5th Ave edition, has another pimpy feature from that era...little chrome mudflaps!

uplanderguy · May 2013

Did Caddy change engines from '63 to '64? I think they did. A buddy of mine whose parents had '56, '60, '65, '67, '70, '73, '76, and '78 Cadillacs had told me that the latter engine was better, but I can't recall why.

I like the '62's also, and my friend just recently bought one from Indiana, a white Coupe deVille which I'm anxious to see (he lives about an hour northeast of me).

When I was in college, a guy on my dorm floor (this is late '70's) had his parents' old '64 Coupe deVille (purchased new) for transportation. It was a little rusty but cleaner than the average '64 in NW PA by that time. It was a pale turquoise metallic with matching cloth and leather inside. I seem to remember it had a signal-seeking AM radio (!). We'd pile in it to go to a place we liked to eat, about fifteen miles away, every once in a while.

Off the subject of Cadillacs, but my last paragraph reminds me that a girl in my dorm drove a '64 Studebaker Commander, dark red 4-door, which I'd see in the dorm lot. It was forlorn-looking. In an older house on Main St. in Clarion was also seen a '66 Stude back then. In the mid'70's in my hometown, there was a '64 Stude hardtop (which I later owned, another story) and a '65 Stude 4-door one street apart from each other, still being used daily.

andre1969 · May 2013

I just looked it up, and yeah, there was an engine switch...390 CID with 325 hp in 1963, 429 CID with 340 hp for 1964.

I'm guessing it was still the same basic engine, although both the bore and stroke are different between the two. Usually a manufacturer will change one or the other, but not both at the same time, when they enlarge an engine.

andre1969 · May 2013

this morning I got the New Yorker fired up and drove it to the gas station. Figured I'd rather take it out during a less busy time, just in case it decided to misbehave. Impressively, it fired up on the second try this morning. Temps are a little cool, and damp, so that's just typical 70's car for you!

Anyway, at the gas station, a nice sounding customized hotrod pulled up behind me. Couldn't tell what it was, but I'd say around a 1939-40 something-or other. It was a yellow coupe with a split grille, and lowered roof. And it had a split grille. Wasn't a GM product, as the headlights were integrated into the fenders. So I guess it could've been a Ford or Studebaker?

Also, while I was there, a blue 1987 or older Grand Marquis sedan pulled in, looking pretty good. And, as I was leaving, an early/mid 90's Buick Century, dark blue, was entering the station. Looking a little ratty and worn, but considering what I was driving, I'm not gonna judge!

And, this is a bit embarrassing...checking the fuel log, my NY'er was last filled up on 9/14/11. Since then, it had been driven 115.7 miles. The odometer and speedo are off, although I forget by how much, so that figure might be more like 120-125 miles. I'm sure letting the gas get that old didn't do much for it. It could just be my imagination, but on the way back home after the fill-up, it did seem to drive a LOT better. MPG on that tank was about 7.5. Ouch. But, I've gotten cars to get worse! :shades:

ab348 · May 2013

Up through the 1962 model year the Cadillac V-8 was an evolution of their original OHV V-8 introduced in 1949. For the '63 model year they did a major redevelopment of that design, although it retained the 390 CID size. Then for '64 they changed the bore and stroke to bring it up to 429CID. That seems strange and I imagine that parts for the one-year only 1963 version must be tough to find now. In '68 they came out with an all-new engine of 472CID which later was increased to 500CID.

tjc78 · May 2013

You should take the NYer out on the highway and give it an Italian Tune Up. In other words beat the snot out of it.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2013

...to make a car even worse than it originally was:

Behold----the SHADOWMINO!

berri · May 2013

While I readily admit to a certain fondness for the in your face 59, I share your preference for the 62 Cadillac. It has a kind of understated elegance about it.

uplanderguy · May 2013

...or to discuss price, but I just think this is the most original/authentic looking Cosworth I've seen in at least a couple decades:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Other-Cosworth-Vega-1975-Chevrolet-Cosw- - - orth-Vega-Twin-Cam-All-Original-Only-15K-Original-/271203972592?pt=US_Cars_Truck- - - s&hash=item3f250435f0&vxp=mtr

It is identical (the black cloth interior is somewhat unusual) to the single one my hometown dealer, Dart Chevrolet-Cadillac, Greenville, PA got in and I rode in when new (didn't drive). They had it a year later and sold it to an older lady (seriously) who traded in a six-cylinder '72 Nova for it. It is now owned by an old acquaintance, who bought it probably 15 years ago at another Chevy dealer fifteen miles away.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2013

Well really, cheap enough for an entry-level ticket into the collector car hobby.

The Cosworth Vega will get some modest respect at local car shows, whereas the regular production Vega is more likely to be ignored. I would stop to look at one, as I haven't seen one in a couple of years.

uplanderguy · May 2013

This Cosworth is exceptional to my eyes, in the little details of authenticity which interest me most in an old car.

That said, there are usually a lot more Cosworths on eBay at any given time than truly nice regular Vegas. When the latter show up on eBay, they often outbid so-so Cosworths.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2013

A Cosworth is worth double a Vega, easy.

Fortunately the market is not defined by the occasional loopy person who pays too much for something but it rewards the person shrewd enough to pick the right collector car to invest in.

fintail · May 2013

Seeing an early Shadow is worth pennies anyway, why not? Nothing of value really lost. Nice sense of humor. I've seen period conversions of those things, too.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2013

A Shadow is a throw-away car, so sure, why not have fun with it? Shiftright heartily approves.

andys120 · May 2013

I spotted a Willys Jeep All-Steel Wagon under power and in pretty fair shape, the forest green paint could have been glossier but IIRC they came that way (not very shiny) from the factory.
"All-Steel" was part of the model name because it was a bragging point in the age when most wagons had high maintenance wooden bodies.

Later I saw a parked Fourth gen '64-'66 T-Bird coupe that looked in nice shape. It was grayish white and had a painted roof with no landau irons or vinyl covering,

stickguy · May 2013

saw a few interesting oldies. Most of which I don't remember.

but one I do was ultra rare. and moving under it's own power, on the highway no less.

A Citroen SM. white. was going the other way so did not get a close up look at it. This was in the boonies below Binghamton NY, so even an odder place for it to turn up.

fintail · May 2013

When I see those Jeeps, I think of Terry Thomas and someone honking their "hooter" :shades:

A few old cars out today. Saw a parked W108 250SE - oddball engine size only made for a couple years. Was going to go back and take a pic of it with the fintail, it was gone. Also saw an early 60s small Buick convertible (Special? Skylark?), red with white top, obviously restored. A 57 Chevy - flew by from a distance in traffic so I am not sure, think it was a Bel Air 2 door post, in that bronze color I think called "Sierra Gold" with a beige two tone. Very nice looking first gen Accord. Mint brand new looking 1986 Camry, older driver.

And I guess both of these are relatively unusual cars:

hpmctorque · May 2013

"Unusual" depends a lot on geographic location. I imagine the new E-class is very unusual in, say, rural Mississippi, but in major East or West Coast metro areas, or Chicago, not so unusual.

fintail · May 2013

Oh, I meant because it is diesel. From what I anyway have seen in inventories, Bluetec cars must be well below 10% of sales.

Normal W212s are a dime a dozen here. 4Matic might even be more common than 2WD, at least in my area.

hpmctorque · May 2013

I guess when people do the math on Bluetec vs. gasoline, most Americans conclude that over their expected period of ownership, they can't justify the incremental cost for Bluetec. I'm thinking that the market penetration of diesels will increase significantly, as Chevy, Mazda and, maybe, Nissan offer modern diesels options.

Diesels appeal to me more than hybrids, but not more that gasoline engines, yet, for my driving.

Speaking of diesel, I read that MB is offering a new aluminum 2.1L twin-turbo Bluetec diesel option in the GLK, and that this engine will be substituted for the 3.0 V6 Bluetec diesel in the E-Series. Horsepower and torque for the GLK250 are 200 and 369 lbs. feet, respectively. I'm sure you've known this, but perhaps for some, like me, it's new information.

On another topic, about three weeks ago we briefly discussed that parts of Canada, including Vancouver, may be experiencing a housing bubble. I've since read articles that support this argument.

andre1969 · May 2013

You should take the NYer out on the highway and give it an Italian Tune Up. In other words beat the snot out of it.

Strangely, the NYer seems happier when it's driven fast and hard, with my foot into it. It just seems smoother and more responsive. It's low speeds, idling, coming to a stop, etc where it seems to get cranky.

This might be tempting fate, but I drove it to work today. I'm going to try and drive it every day this week, and see how it acts. It didn't start up on the first try this morning, but the third. Kinda cool and drizzly this morning, and it hasn't been run since Saturday, so that's no big deal. It stalled the moment I put it into gear, but did start right back up.

And, for an added bonus, this morning when I turned on the windshield wiper, only the driver's side worked. So, that's something else to deal with. And, I noticed a tear in the top of the back seat, right in the middle. Probably from old age/sun damage.

hpmctorque · May 2013

"...a tear in the top of the back seat."

Whoops, there goes the NY's resale value (LOL).

texases · May 2013

Nah, that's 'patina'...

fintail · May 2013

The only modern gasoline engines that interest me are either very economical, or tuned for performance. The average middle of the road V6 doesn't thrill me with modern 4s being so good. With the 7 speed unit, the gas 6 in the E can beat 30mpg, which isn't bad anyway.

Yes, the 4 cylinder diesel is replacing the V6. It should work well, as that engine is very popular in Europe. However, that engine has worse NVH - the 6 is very smooth and would be hard to beat. Maybe they can isolate it, and maybe the tradeoff will be worth it for even more mileage (my best cruising at an average of ~60 for 100+ miles was 45mpg). I also kind of like that the V6 Bluetec is somewhat of an industrial unit - used in Sprinters. It will be durable.

The Canadian gvt is manipulating interest rates and related policies to keep the bubble afloat, but I fear it won't end well there. Especially for condo buyers, of which there are probably a greater percentage of in Canadian cities than in the US. The place has often seemed to follow a similar path to the US, just lagging by some years - once again seems true.

fintail · May 2013

Cleaned out my phone, a few more paired pics (this time with new tires).

No need for a backup camera here:

Old style is more flamboyant:

Half a century:

hpmctorque · May 2013

Ah, okay, in that case the upholstery tear adds to the value.

ab348 · May 2013

The Canadian gvt is manipulating interest rates and related policies to keep the bubble afloat, but I fear it won't end well there. Especially for condo buyers, of which there are probably a greater percentage of in Canadian cities than in the US. The place has often seemed to follow a similar path to the US, just lagging by some years - once again seems true.

Huh?

fintail · May 2013

Sorry?

Just google Canadian Housing Bubble - there are many sites detailing it, some even city-specific.

ab348 · May 2013

Aside from being a totally random non-sequitur in this forum, to compare Canada to the US in terms of any housing bubble is at best media-fueled nonsense. There are many differences, chief among them that in Canada people do not qualify for mortgages unless they have jobs, income, and a track record of paying their bills.

Now, back to cars.

fintail · May 2013

You're joking, right? Canada might not be as wild or unregulated as the US was for several years, but there's still a danger there. Hell, if you are a new immigrant there, you can get a mortgage with 35% down - no credit, no income. Almost seems ripe for criminals to take advantage. A lot of the growth has also been fueled by offshore speculators and those who buy their way in. Dangerous game.

Talk about nonsense, yourself. Canuckistan is in a bubble and already deflating in some areas (Lower Mainland and Victoria especially).

Back to cars, indeed.

ab348 · May 2013

OK, so I've gone back in the thread and I see that it was hpmctorque who started this discussion here for some unknown reason. Regardless, it does not belong here, nor do people who do not live in Canada calling my country derogatory names. I do not post "Amurrica" or "Der Fatherland" to refer in a derogatory manner to other countries in which I do not live so please put a cork to what you think you know about Canada and stick to posting hundreds of pics of your car on every site you visit, OK?

andre1969 · May 2013

I should know this, but what part of Canada are you in? Last year, we went to Canada's Wonderland, which I think is in Vaughan, or something like that? Close to Toronto. Nice park. Not very big, acre-wise, but it's amazing how many rollercoasters they packed into it!

Didn't see much in the way of obscure cars up there, although I remember seeing some tiny little Mercedes thing that looked sort of Honda Fit-esque, as we were stuck in line at the border trying to get out of the US.

Oh, I have a friend who lives in Toronto. One day, he posted a pic of the street outside his house for whatever reason (I think someone blocked his car in), and lo and behold, there was a '59 DeSoto Firedome 4-door at the curb on the other side of the street! That has to be a pretty rare sight in Canada. Heck, it's a rare sight here!

fintail · May 2013

A friend of mine called, knowing I am not working today, and told me a local specialty car dealer has John Voight's Car for sale - but it wasn't there when I stopped by.

However, I did see this As-new Mark V, like the LeBaron, carrying an asking price about 100% over top real world value.

fintail · May 2013

Hell, I call the USA 'Muricah, what about it? Call it what you want, no sane person takes it personally. I've spent considerable amounts of time (months and months at a time when I was younger) north of the border, have numerous friends in BC and AB, and I follow real estate markets as a hobby, so I am not without insight into this. If you don't think there's a time bomb in the 604 and 416 specifically (along with every other major city, and probably a lot of AB too), take some time to analyze SFH prices vs income trends in those areas, look at some of the sketchy lending standards, do the same for the US during the mirage economy, and think about it. Disturbing parallels. Canada isn't some kind of paradise bastion of justice and economic intelligence. In too many ways, it's the 51st state - just with a property market kept alive with more second and third world blood money, and artificially low rates (sounds familiar).

How about you stick to not being so easily offended? I wasn't being personal. Nobody has a right to be spared an opinion that hurts their sensibilities. As Americans seem to have a few character flaws, that one does seem to be prevalent among many Canuckleheads :P

explorerx4 · May 2013

Sounds ominous, sure sign the zombies are trying to escape from the trunk.
When was the last time you looked in there?

andre1969 · May 2013

Now that you mention it, as I was backing into the parking spot at work, the rear of the car did seem to be a little low, like it was holding some weight in the trunk. So it's either some demon-spawn in there waiting to get out, or with my luck, just some breach here or there that let it fill up with rainwater. I can't remember the last time I looked in the trunk. I think it was to take its temporary spare out to put in my 5th Ave, to clear up some trunk space...

tjc78 · May 2013

If you were buying a 78 Mark V to preserve why the heck wouldn't they have gotten a Diamond Jubilee Edition, or at least a designer? That would be worth a lot more than the standard Mark. The condition of that one is something, but I've seen several like that, some with lower miles believe it or not.

fintail · May 2013

They seem to be like the final run 78 Eldo - a lot were saved as "collectors items". The color of the car I saw was much more a light yellow than a "cream", too. Definitely a period piece.

Condition was as-new. I saw one paint flaw, nothing more. Interior looked new. All glass and plastic lenses like new. But as nice as it is, is the market bringing more than 20K for one?

tjc78 · May 2013

A DJE or 79 Collector's series in that shape to the **right** buyer I could see hitting 20K. A run of the mill in a not so great color, no way.

I'm sure Shifty could pinpoint it but my guess would be 10k. If I wanted a mint Mark V I could justify that much because restoring one would bury you deeper than Jimmy Hoffa.

I'd still take the Givenchy I posted the other day in Project Cars.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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