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I think it would depend on the year, as even in that short timeframe, things changed quickly. In 1979, the Newport and St. Regis came standard with a 2-bbl version of the slant six that put out 110 hp. A Caprice or Impala would have had a 250-1bbl inline six with around 105-110 hp, while a Catalina, LeSabre, or Delta 88 would've had the 110 hp 231-2bbl V-6. They would've all been fairly comparable in acceleration, although I don't think I've ever seen any acceleration times for these weaklings.
In 1980, however, the R-body got the 1-bbl version of the slant six, and it was choked down to 85 hp. The Caprice/Impala moved to the 115 hp Chevy 229 V-6, while the B-O-P cars retained the 231. So the Mopars had to be real dogs with those engines. The 229 had more hp, but less torque than the old inline 6. But, in 1980, GM trimmed a couple hundred pounds off their big cars, which no doubt helped a bit, so they should have all been quicker, and a bit more economical, than the Mopars.
In 1981, things didn't change much. The slant six was rated at 90 hp, but I don't think that made much difference. Chrysler also played around with gearing in the V-8, non-police cars that year, replacing the 2.41:1 axle with a tall 2.26:1, but putting in a faster 1st and 2nd gear to compensate. The slant six, I believe, used a 2.94:1 axle, and I don't think that changed for 1981, so it may have retained the old transmission ratios.
Now reliability-wise, I'd say the advantage, for powertrains at least, would have gone to the Mopar. The Chevy 250 was a pretty good engine though, and I believe they tended to put the sturdier THM350 transmission with it. The 229 was decent as well, but was mated with the lightweight THM200, which was more likely to fail...and I would think would be even more likely in a heavier car like an Impala. And the Buick 231 was pretty bad in those days, not really getting improved until 1985, when the regular engines got the turbo block and revised oil passages and such. I think they tended to mix and match transmissions with the 231, as well, with some having the THM200 and some having the THM350.
The Mopars would have been more likely to rust, leak, have other body issues, and so on though, be crankier in cold weather, wet weather, and so on. So the choice could very well have been between a GM car that would be nice for a few years and then crap out catastrophically, or a Mopar that would nickel and dime you to death and aggravate you, to the point that you just wish it would die!
Often, with those Mopars of that era, even if the EPA said otherwise, the 318 often got better economy in real world driving, thanks to the taller gearing, not having to rely on the lower gears as much and not having to struggle as hard to move all that weight. The slant six was a good engine in its day, but it like to run cool, which meant emissions controls really hurt its performance. And it didn't like to rev, which it had to do, to move those heavier weights.
I would imagine that some of the worst of these cars had to take at least 20 seconds to get from 0-60. I'm basing that though, on an old CR test of a 1977 Cutlass Supreme sedan that CR did with a 260 V-8. 0-60 was around 21.6 seconds.
Also, throwing the Ford LTD into the mix, I imagine that the tiny 255 CID V-8 they started using had to be a dog in these bigger cars. Lemko's Dad had a T-bird with that engine, and he's mentioned how bad it was. I don't think Ford started putting that one in the big cars until 1981 though. In 1979-80, I think a 130 hp 302 was standard.
FWIW, horsepower seemed to go down across the board in 1979; I wonder if a stricter set of emissions standards was enacted? For example, the Chevy 305-2bbl had put out 145 hp in 1977-78, but was cut to 130 for 1979. To somewhat compensate, a 305-4bbl with 160 hp was released, but I think only in the Malibu/Monte Carlo. 1979 was also the year the small 267-2bbl came out, and I think it had 120 hp. Mopar's 318-2bbl was cut from 145 to 135 hp that year. Not sure if the Ford 302 was cut that year or not. For some reason, I remember multiple versions floating around though, with ratings like 129, 134, and 139-140 hp.
0-60times.com lists a 1980 Caprice at 0-60 in 18.5 seconds and a quarter mile of 21.1. Doesn't say which engine though. They also list a wagon with the Diesel 350 at 0-60 in 19.5 seconds, and the quarter mile in 21.4. So I imagine that other '80 was a sedan, with the 229 V-6? I'd hope a 267 wouldn't be THAT slow, but you never know. MT or C&D did a test of a 1981 Pontiac Grand Prix with the Pontiac 265, and 0-60 came up in 14.9 seconds. And I seem to remember CR testing a 1980 Malibu with a 229 and a LeMans or some other midsize with a 231, and both had 0-60 times of around 15 seconds.
I've always wondered if there was some extenuating circumstance behind their 1979 big car test, that made the numbers come out worse than they should have? I had a 1979 Newport with the same setup as their test St. Regis, and while it wasn't all that fast, it wasn't THAT slow. It was about as quick as my grandmother's '85 LeSabre 307. Consumer Guide tested a Delta 88 with the same drivetrain and got 0-60 12.0 seconds. It's possible, I guess, that the weather could have been extra hot and muggy, and that threw off their tests. The Michigan state police ran into a similar circumstance when they did their 1985 police car test. I think they did the tests at the same time every year, but that particular year, the weather was extra hot and humid, and as a result, all the cars they tested did worse than their 1984 counterparts.
Extreme weather probably doesn't affect performance on modern cars all that much, but it could play hell with those older ones, especially if they started bucking, sputtering, trying to stall out, etc.
**Edit: one other test I remember from that era, was when MT or C&D did a luxury flagship comparison in 1980. They trotted out a Mark VI coupe with a 351, a Seville with a 368, and a New Yorker 5th Ave with a 120 hp 318. The Caddy did 0-60 in a respectable 10.5 seconds. 10.9 for the Lincoln. The poor Chrysler could only muster up 14.1.
The vast majority of R-bodies that I come across (not like they're a common sight) are 318's. The 360-2bbl was standard in the 1979 New Yorker, although a 318-4bbl was substituted in California/high altitude areas. I've also run across an occasional '79 St. Regis or Newport with the 360-2bbl as well, so apparently it wasn't that rare of an option.
And yeah, a slant six really doesn't belong in anything bigger than a Dart, Valiant, or Duster IMO. Supposedly the 110 hp "Super Six" 2-bbl version offered from 1977-79 wasn't *too* bad. My grandmother's cousin had a '79 Volare wagon with that setup. On the surface, you'd think it would be comparable with something like a V-6 Malibu, or a Fairmont or Granada with the inline-6, but those Aspens and Volares, especially the 4-doors and wagons, were notably heavier. And worse still, was the Diplomat/LeBaron and Cordoba/Mirada...in no way did that engine belong in cars of that size/weight!
In the Diplomat/LeBaron and Cordoba/Mirada, I'd guess the 318 was by far the most common engine...at least judging from what I see at shows.
Maybe rental fleet cars got the small engines, too.
I've also heard that sometimes, local police forces would specify a smaller V-8 or even a 6-cyl car, if the car was just going to be used for routine patrol duty, and not have to chase anything.
I can't remember...did the 4.3/262 ever go in any of the B-O-P intermediates, or did they simply stick it out with that 110 hp Buick 231 through the end? For some reason, I'm thinking that the Regal, and possibly the Bonneville G and Grand Prix offered the 262 for a little while, at least.
As for other uses of the 4.3, I just checked the EPA's website, and I don't know how accurate it truly is, but they do list a 4.3 being offered on the Regal for 1985, on the Bonneville/Grand Prix for 1986, and the Grand Prix for 1987. But, I can't say that I've ever seen one in person, or ever remember mention of it anywhere else.
I just found a Canadian brochure for the 1985 Regal, and it lists the Olds Diesel 4.3 V-6 as an option, but says nothing of the Chevy 4.3. It does list a Chevy 305 V-8 as being optional though. Maybe Canadian options were still a bit different at that time? I thought the Regal stopped offering V-8's after 1980, and didn't start again until 1986-87 when they began putting Olds 307's in them?
I always thought it was a shame that they kept the 110 hp 231 in these cars up until the end. IMO, they should have upgraded it with fuel injection, like they did with the FWD version. I think the Cutlass Supreme might have gone V-8 only for the abbreviated 1988 model year, but can't remember for sure.
I'd like a '71 or '72 Biscayne, full wheelcovers and whitewalls, just because I bet I haven't seen a total of five in my lifetime!
Into the '70's, you could get a six on Biscayne and Bel Air sedans, and only on Impala 4-door sedans and Sport Coupes. The six wasn't offered on Impala Custom Coupes, convertibles, or Sport Sedans. This is through '72 I believe and probably '73. I'd have to look at a '73 Chevrolet brochure on the Old Car Manuals Project site. I do know the bodystyles that were excluded from six-cylinder availability in the Impala line though.
BTW, the 250 in our '67 was a $26 option. The 230 was the standard six. It had 140 gross horsepower.
Damn inflation is a cruel [non-permissible content removed]. I was thinking that $26 didn't sound like a whole lot of money, even back then. But just put it into an inflation calculator, and it's $182 by today's standards! Still, I guess that's not *too* much money, considering the added power.
Mopar also had two versions of their slant six around that timeframe, but in their case it was the tiny 170 CID, with around 115 hp, and the more common 225, with 145. The 170 was only used in Darts and Valiants, and seriously, should have been dropped by then. Those cars were just too big for an engine that small. But, maybe not, as Chevy was putting 4-cyl engines in the Chevy II, and I think Ford was still pushing 170's in the Falcon, unless they had gone to a 200 as the base by then?
My father did that with his '63 Impala SS409. Dunno if he did it to fool people though, or be sarcastic.
As for the Chevy II's 4-cyl engine, it was offered from 1962-1970. It was a 153 CID unit and had the same bore and stroke as the 230-6cyl. I don't think I've ever seen a Chevy II with the 4-cyl. I'm sure they were pretty rare.
I remember looking at a light green (color Dad liked) Nova 4-door with optional window frame moldings, which dressed it up a bit. It was new and at our local dealer. Even my uber-thrifty Dad wanted nothing to do with it when he saw it was a four.
I also remember my Dad getting a Chevy flyer in the mail from Detroit, and on the back page it said "Nova 4 Sale". They must have had inventory they couldn't get rid of.
Chevy, back then, used to say that Nova had a 'standard four, six, and eight'. But the base prices changed...window sticker would say "Nova 4", "Nova L6" or "Nova V8". The six and eight were higher than the four, and the eight was higher than both. Chevy did this with Chevelles and up, also.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2010/04/01/hmn_feature12.html
I like the '72's grille and interior, but they decontented the exterior trim so much in '72...you got no rocker trim (even the Biscayne had that) and I'd have just had to pay for the optional wheel-opening trim and bodyside molding with vinyl insert.
Still, an interesting car for sure.
The owner said that tinted glass was the only option, but the car has whitewalls and full wheel covers as well. '72 Chevys built with dog dish hubcaps had body-colored wheels; full wheelcovers got you black wheels. This car has black wheels which makes me think it was delivered with the optional wheelcovers.
On the odd cars front, saw a C43 AMG today, along with an E30 M3 (or clone) and a maybe 74 Chevy pickup in local survivor condition (first traces of minor rust after 40 years).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I think in the family tree heirarchy, the Monza would have given way to the Cavalier.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
E36 M3s are a different matter... easy to duplicate the cosmetics...
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2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
The four that was used in Tempests was indeed half a 389 and billed as a 195-cubic inch engine.
I like the looks of the '62 Tempest a lot--I'd look for one with the Buick aluminum V8 although have heard that was only 1-2% of Tempest production. They're similar, but I like the Pontiac styling better than the Buick's. A friend who has done mechanical work on cars his whole life in Indiana, has told me I must be a masochist to want a 'rope drive' Tempest! LOL
I never much liked it .. I had lots of issues with the heater core that took several visits to sort out, and when it got hot (in Phoenix? go figure) it was hit and miss as to whether it would start.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4