Frosted over Antifreeze

fleetwoodsimca · August 2002

Kirstie (properly) shot the previous title concerning this topic in the... foot because it referenced the Corolla automobile in the title, so I am hoping to get some information flowing where coagulation reigns! Here is a cut and paste of my only entry in the now defunct antifreeze conversation-- only slightly modified for clarity:
Do some other folks out there feel a bit put upon, as I do? Several years ago, I bought a new car that I came to realize had come out of the factory with a "special" antifreeze in it. Probably to help identify it, there was a distinct orange color to it. A friend at NAPA warned me not to mix green or yellow with the orange. He wasn't sure what the technical reason for that was. Here in 2002 I have only recently found out that the two groups of antifreeze REACT with each other in some variety of chemical way that may coagulate your cooling system! I am more than just a little displeased that this horrific circumstance has been treated in such a casual way by automobile manufacturers-- or am I the only guy in North America to miss out on the information from the beginning? I would really like to get to the nitty gritty on this topic. Can you supply definitive information, and/or opinions?

Kirstie_H · August 2002

Sorry about shutting down a topic you were interested in! Kinda getting spread out these days, and trying to keep it under control.

Anyway, I was always led to believe, obviously falsely, that antifreeze was antifreeze -- basically the same active ingredients. My Jetta manual doesn't say anything about a specific antifreeze. Odd, considering it's about a 10-part manual. Guess I'll have to go to the dealership for a flush & fill rather than a top up.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

fleetwoodsimca · August 2002

Not a problem, at all! Maybe someone who has really checked out the facts can help all of us to understand the antifreeze dilemma.

swschrad · August 2002

I have been led to believe by service guys that you can get an "orange concretion of death" from Dex-Cool if mixed with standard material or if run in a system that has air in it.

playing around with Da ISH today, I find that ChevronTexaco Inc. says that ain't the case, at least about the purity requirements, it can be mixed if you want the corrosion protection damaged.

the link is below... note the only differences between Dex-Cool and standard green, yellow, or red ethylene glycol antifreeze is the corrosion inhibitor chemistry and the squirrelly orange color.

now I'm getting confused as well.

as always, because of size limits on links here, this will need cut-and-paste to get into your browser find window.

<http://library.cbest.chevron.com/lubes/ - compprd9.nsf/c88c682625e06af6882568db00737ce8/ - ab30f4d48c33f01a88256b53007f1f4c?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,dex-cool*>

fleetwoodsimca · August 2002

Many thanks. If I can get to the site via copy and paste...
I'll check it out.

A few minutes later: Nope! I can't do it that way. I'll spin cast for it... (:o]

And even later: Check this site. The coolant is getting less clear yet!
http://www.peakantifreeze.com/faq.html#I

swschrad · August 2002

tried to get there earlier, but munged the search. the www.prestone.com piece of Honeywell's autoparts web site didn't have much info.

let's see what else is on Da ISH about orange cement. it's for sure that if you have a low level, aka not being refilled from the overflow jug, half the radiator core is uncovered, etc, you get the uglies in the system.

swschrad · August 2002

[ note... to make these links WORK, you have to remove four characters between the first line and the second line... they are (space), (dash), (space), and (enter). two cut'n'pastes into another browser window ought to work. edmunds 115-character limit stinks, but it's probably for prevention of script-kiddie destructiveness. if you have to, hand-type it all into another browser window without "the four characters", that should work. ]

http://www.penray.com/bulletins/ -

compatibility.htm

cummins engine has had a slug of leak issues, and put out co-branded advisory letters to mix a special supplement into any cooling system on their engines that used texaco extended life formula DexCool-compatible concentrate.

http://www.penray.com/bulletins/ -

noat_failures.htm

got pointed to these items from the first DexCool link on google! there are a tubload of "ruined my engine" items following below.

I think the best thing is to READ THE LABEL!! the big diesel guys are basically saying, if you mix the organic acid (red or orange) coolants with anything else (yellow, blue, green) you get precipitates.

http://www.penray.com/bulletins/ -

noatcomp.htm

http://www.penray.com/organicacid/ -

evolution.htm

-0-

I expect that the full site at www.penray.com is required reading if this interests you... and certainly doing a google search on "dexcool" to see who else has staked out ground for a bar fight.

my local newspaper/TV autos reporter had this article in may, 2000... where GM also warns of issues, and his basic response is, no such thing as a free lunch, change it regularly anyway.

http://www.startribune.com/ -

stories/435/21199.html

and here's another web site where 3 pages also contain information that DexCool also causes issues in Ford V8s. my, them boys get around....

http://autorepair.about.com/library/ -
weekly/aa052601a.htm

fleetwoodsimca · August 2002

Good sites. I checked them out, and I find the drift to be, don't mix red/orange with anything, and keep the system topped up.
My preliminary findings are that America's drivers would be better off with only the green and yellow varieties, and no complications!

swschrad · August 2002

my usual reaction to new earth-shaking revolutionary changes in chemistry is.... OK, then, five or ten years down the road we'll see how the pioneers fared.

Frosted over Antifreeze

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