Ford Escape Hybrid

snowman · May 2004

I talked to my local dealer today in PA. They said Escape is not coming this year, Ford is not giving them a clue for release date and price. Disappointing huh!

I agree above comments about price, The price difference should higher enough to be covered by the saving on gasoline bill. If Ford asks $3-$5k difference, I don't think it is worthed to buy.

jchan2 · May 2004

here's what I suggest:
lease an 04 Vibe for two or three years, wait for the Escape Hybrid waiting list to shorten, then get on the list and buy the Escape Hybrid.

maxx4me · May 2004

I think I will end up buying the Maxx some time this fall, when all the rebates "maxx" out. I received my Supplier's discount number yesterday, which will allow me to get it for a great price. I am very concerned about the road noise people have been reporting with the Escape. I also can't deny that I'm worried about a brand new hybrid technology on a Ford product, which has certainly seen its fair share of repairs in the 01-03 timeframe. I know the '05 has a different tranny, engine and AWD system, but the same people who built the '05 built the other ones too. I have shopped everything possible in the past 8 months; I keep coming back to the Maxx each time.

topcop · May 2004

With Ford coming out with an Escape Hybrid, and Chevy apparently working on a Silverado, I think it begs the question of whether the hybrid technology can carry the same towing capacity or cargo capacity of the conventional vehicles. I haven't seen any discussion of this, and wonder if any of you have info on that.

ANT14 · May 2004

In relation to towing, the "most" that it can do is just wear down the energy from the batteries. IN certain situations this will cause the gasoline part of the hybrid to turn on and compensate. And because some of these systems make massive torque, I don't see towing to be an issue, but do not expect F-150 astronomical towing abilities.

I think anyone who tows more than 3000lbs will probably get a larger SUV or truck if it's a regular duty they need it for.

As for the Silverado, I believe they stated they can improve fuel economy by 4-6% ? IN the end the question would be, is it worth it ?

Year's ago Ford had plans to build Hybrid Explorer and they killed that idea real quick when they saw it would only increase fuel economy by just 4%. Then again, THAT was year's ago.... techonology has improved 10 folds since then, so it can happen at a feasable pricepoint (for the Explorer that is).

baggs32 · May 2004

Demand:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-05-13-ford-hybrid-suv_x.- htm

Test Drive:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2004-05-13-esc- ape-main_x.htm

Note that towing is rated at 1000 pounds. The ICE version is rated at 3500 pounds if you want to compare.

Judging by the first link, if you want one, get in line now!

daysailer · May 2004

why would you want to "get in line"?. The review suggests that the Escape hybrid is underwhelming, at best, and that the much hoped for hybrid with "V6 performance" is not the Escape.

Granted, this is just one reviewer's opinion and there was no quantitative performance data, but it is not encouraging.

baggs32 · May 2004

30,000 people showed interest in buying one through Ford's website. Ford only plans to produce 20,000 copies. Is this starting to make more sense now?

The reviewer used the term "underwhelming" when comparing the Hybrid's performance to the V6 model. However, near the end he commented that it was the most enjoyable hybrid to drive so far.

For the record I will not be getting in line. I don't care how much gas costs right now and fuel mileage is never on my list of needs when shopping for a new vehicle. I'll stick with the good old ICE until I'm forced to give it up. Yes, I'm one of those guys.

topcop · May 2004

I suspect that the Escape Hybrid will sell like hotcakes. While my towing needs are just the semester driven exercises of moving my kids back and forth from college, I suspect that above very light weight towing, an ICE would still be way to go.
I saw an earlier post about seat comfort and wind noise. I must say that my '02 Escape XLT has about the most uncomfortable seats (hard as a rock) as I have ever sat upon. Windnoise is significant. I even tried removing the radio antenna mast and installing an inside mount antenna. That helped some, and in a major radio market the radio works fine. Get out in the boonies though, and I need to switch to CD.

michanth · May 2004

FMC's Idea of a Hybrid may go a step further. Sorry if I'm a little off topic but Fords Hydraulic Hybrid Transmission or Hydraulic Launch Assist seems very promising and maybe quickly available and practical to install in new suv's and cars. It recaptures energy lost during braking by accumulating compressing fluid then to be used as a launch assist during acceleration. This maybe the way to go regardless of the powerplant - ICE, Diesel, Hybrid, Fuel Cell etc..

The bottom line - Projected 30-40% better fuel economy in city driving and lower emissions. And projected cost increase of 600$ over a standard transmission.

References:

http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/auto_technology/2004/3/04_- - - sae_congress/index4.phtml

http://www.iags.org/n033104t3.htm

http://www.ford.com/en/innovation/engineFuelTechnology/modularHyb- - - ridTransmission.htm

We may have a new topic here.

ANT14 · May 2004

Mic, Nah, it's right on topic, thanks.

Topcop, the new '05 Escape addresses the issues with the hard seats, and wind noise you had, as well as material quality has improved, gearshift lever moved to the center floor console.

These were common consumer complaints that were addressed.

xcel · May 2004

Hi Michanth:

___I can only hope This would work great with a Ford diesel from the Euro Focus in an 06/07 Escape. The Hydraulic Hybrid was one of the EPAs top scientists own goal for higher fuel economy for all vehicles at a minimal cost. Given the technology is childs play for most automobile mechanical engineers with a small host of electronic and computer engineers thrown in for good measure, you can see its promise for less expensive fuel economy.

___A must read for you As a precursor, the following article has a plethora of information in regards to Mr. Charles Grays (the EPA guy) as well as the Big 3s past activities in achieving fuel economy most anyone would love to achieve in the automobiles we drive today.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/car/one/chi-startingu- p-special.special

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

michanth · May 2004

I agree Wayne, the technology is all market ready and not something that takes recreating the wheel from drawing board to assembly line to the end user and maintenance. The present EPA project has a good chance of bringing the Hybrid Hydraulic Transmission to market. There seems to be more players involved with their on variations with better claims to fuel efficiency. check out www.torvec.com their epa Hydraulic Transmission in a Dodge Ram 4 x 4....link shown below.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040213/nyf007_1.html

We can only wait and hope and maybe write a congressman that this does not go into a bureaucratic stalemate like the 80 MPG Super Car

Optimistic Regards

Michael

stevedebi · May 2004

Your Yahoo article link didn't work.

michanth · May 2004

Try these links

http://www.theautochannel.com/N/news/2004/04/30/192590.html

and

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040311/nyth077_1.html

jchan2 · May 2004

Has Ford set a specific base price for the Escape Hybrid yet?

carguydc · May 2004

According to several posts on another site, the order bank for the Escape Hybrid opens on Monday, May 17th. According to all that we've read recently, there may be a shortage so if truly interested - may be worth getting an order in.

carguydc · May 2004

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7131

http://www.waxahachiedailylight.com/WAXAHACHIEDAILYLIGHT/myarticl- es.asp?S=420&PubID=15955&P=980926

Both very positive in my opinion.

stevedebi · May 2004

"During two passes through the loop, editor Marty Padgett and I generated virtually identical results of about 39 miles to the gallon in an all-wheel-drive Escape Hybrid. Other journalists bested that number significantly, and in a front-wheel-drive model, a particularly light-footed scribe hit the 60-mpg mark.

All these numbers were generated by drivers working hard to maximize fuel efficiency. Later results fell dramatically in real-world driving , underscoring the caveat for anyone considering a hybrid."

This is the crux of the matter. The Escape is far heavier and has a much lower c/d than the Prius.

I'm betting real world mileage will be around 30 MPG for most drivers. Still better than 22 for the ICE, but if the cost is high it won't be worth it. There is a very real possbility that hybrid technology won't be very useful unless the car is small and light, like the Prius, and has a low c/d. PLUS it has to be driven correctly.

Any increase is great, but it just goes to show, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. TANSTAFL. Weight + poor areodynamics + 4WD = lower mileage. Hybrid technology is no subsitute for smaller cars, which the American public has (so far) turned down.

baggs32 · May 2004

Still better than 22 for the ICE, but if the cost is high it won't be worth it.

The premium is rumored to be over a comparable I4 model which should put the hybrid right in line with the V6 model when it comes down to sticker price. If that's the case paying the V6 price for similar performance and 8+ mpg more would be a very good deal.

Just don't plan on putting too much weight in or on the thing. Stick with the V6 or something bigger if you need that.

stevedebi · May 2004

I was thinking that it will be a premium above the 6 cylinder, probably about 2K more.

You also have to factor in that the Hybrid won't have an incentive, and the V6 will, further pushing the prices apart. Could well be 4-6K difference when incentives are factored in.

daysailer · May 2004

apparently performance is NOT similar to the 6.

baggs32 · May 2004

Sure it is. It's just not the same.

baggs32 · May 2004

That's what I, and most others, thought too but I think someone posted a link a while back explaining that it will be a premium over the I4 model because all the hybrid gear is added to the I4. If the hybrid gear were added to the V6 it would then be a premium over the V6 model.

I don't know how true this is but it does make a lot of sense.

ANT14 · May 2004

That is correct, it'll be a premium over the I-4. So you could see them being prices similar to that of a Premium/Limited edition version of the V6.

jchan2 · May 2004

subtract the incentives that are tossed on the V6 model that are not on the Hybrid model, and the Hybrid suddenly becomes pricier.

purduealum91 · May 2004

Bring over one of your diesel engines from Europe Ford!

baggs32 · May 2004

subtract the incentives that are tossed on the V6 model that are not on the Hybrid model, and the Hybrid suddenly becomes pricier.

Incentives on the Escape are (or were) the lowest of any Ford product. Usually around $500 - $1000 and $1500 near the end of each MY.

The ICE is a better deal up front but you'll probably end up saving more than the incentive amount in gas during the first year or two. The rest is just gravy.

How about insurance? Will it be higher on the hybrid version due to it's potential higher cost of repair?

oldboy · May 2004

Quite a few skeptics here. All the reviews seem to be positive though, and I suspect the Escape Hybrid will prove to be a winner. The previous post questions what insurance rates will be. I doubt that this will be an issue, but if you really want to know, ask your insurance agent about the rates for the Honda Civic Hybrid versus the standard 4 cylinder. As for myself, I have a 2003 Ford already, so I will be waiting about 2 more years. By then the high initial demand should have subsided, and we will know if there are any unexpected problems with this SUV.

stevedebi · May 2004

"The ICE is a better deal up front but you'll probably end up saving more than the incentive amount in gas during the first year or two."

If the Hybrid gets only 30 MPG overall, vice about 20 MPG, it would take a long time to recover, say, $5500 (4K hybrid and 1500 negative incentives vs. normal Escape).

At $3 / gallon, it is about 110K miles, if I figure correctly, and about 139K miles at $2.50 / gallon, plus the complexity of the design requires that you use Ford to fix problems. I saw a post in the Prius board in which transmission repairs cost $15,000 (under warranty). Imagine that after the warranty ran out.

And then there are the batteries to consider when trading in the vehicle or selling it.

baggs32 · May 2004

If the Hybrid gets only 30 MPG overall, vice about 20 MPG, it would take a long time to recover, say, $5500 (4K hybrid and 1500 negative incentives vs. normal Escape).

You only need to recoup the $1500 rebate because the HEV premium is over the I4 and not the V6 which we are comparing it to. The I4 already gets better mileage but does not perform as well as either the V6 or the HEV and therefore doesn't fit into the equation. The V6 and HEV will cost about the same according to information posted on this thread and that's what I was going by.

So in keeping apples with apples, and using Steve's math, it would take about 30,000 miles to recoup the $1500 rebate. If the government brings back the hybrid vehicle tax credit, which was about $1500, you'll recoup the money even faster.

One other thing, the 30 MPG figure was not an average but rather their worst mileage during heavy footed "normal" driving. If you moderate the right foot ~40 MPG is quite achievable in city driving.

The key is that it has to perform like the V6. Otherwise the HEV is a big waste of money. This is where Steve's figures then become a reality (give or take a few miles because the I4 does better than 20 MPG) and everyone might as well opt for the I4 model if they want to save gas.

ANT14 · May 2004

Here's the ordering guide for the Escape Hybrid.

http://www.fordaxz.com/pdf/2005.HYBRID.ESCAPE.pdf

stevedebi · May 2004

The Tax break is a deduction, not a credit. Thus your actual savings is about $550 at most, and the deduction is going down 1 Jan 05.

I was basing my numbers on the V6. I personally don't think the Escape will perform quite as well, so will probably be in between the 4 and the 6 cylinder. And forget it for towing anything of significance, one of the main reasons for choosing the Escape.

I suspect most people will get 30 MPG, not 40. What kind of SUV driver really wants to carefully drive? It is a much larger car with poorer c/d than the Prius, and even the Prius has been known to get below 40 MPG if pushed.

purduealum91 · May 2004

No matter how hard I pushed my Golf TDI, I always averaged 44 mpg! Going from Chicago to NJ, travelling at an avg speed of 70 mph, A/C on, 3 adults, and hatch loaded - 48 mpg! Gotta love it.

jonemyers · May 2004

Everyone seems to be bring up this "real" world mileage of 30mpg for the hybrid. This figure may be true for people that do not pay attention to driving for fuel economy. These same people would not drive their V6 Escape for economy either and probably would end up getting 15mpg.
   So, to compare apples to apples, you cannot compare the EPA rated mpg for a V6 and the "real" world mpg for a hybrid.
   If you assume the V6 gets 15mpg and the hybrid 30mpg and you drive 12,000 miles per year with $2.25 gas, you will spend $1800/year on gas for the V6 and $900/year for the hybrid.
   -Jon

Kirstie_H · May 2004

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

maxx4me · May 2004

Great post ANT14. Thanks for the info. Can you come up with the price too??? he, he, he. The E.H. is still my second choice behind the Maxx. I am concerned that I would end up getting 30 mpg with the E.H. The Maxx still has so many more great features than the E.H., but my main concern is the price gap and making up the difference in gas savings. I did a complete cost analysis based on 30 and 40 mpgs versus the Maxx's 22 mpgs in the city. I calculated it off of $2, $2.50 and $3 a gallon for gas. I also did a plus/minus analysis of both vehicles. The main negative for the E.H. is that I will be a slave to taking it to a Ford dealer for service well after the 3 year warranty runs out. I also am concerned about what happens after the 8 year battery warranty since I keep my cars at least 10 years. In the end it comes down to price. I already received the news that I can get an E.H. at my buying service price. That's amazing in itself considering everyone else will be getting it at sticker or above.

ANT14 · May 2004

I will tell you this, there's some dealer's that have NOT been able to order an Escape Hybrid right off the bat. They might not be receiving it till later on throughout the production year, but as it stands now, I believe all the Escapes Hybrids have been allocated by dealer's.

Jonemyers bringa up an interesting point. Either way if you have the V6, or Hybrid and you drive aggresively, your MPG will reflect your particular driving habits. So (like myself) can probably get 15-18MPG out of the V6 version, would probably be getting 25-30MPG out of the Hybrid version. While someone who may have light foot, could get 23-25MPG for the V6 while getting 45-40MPG for the Hybrid version... It's all relevent to your driving habits.

Kirstie_H · May 2004

A reporter is looking to interview folks anxiously awaiting the arrival of the Ford Escape Hybrid, Lexus RX 400, etc. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com with your daytime contact info and some thoughts on the vehicle no later than 2pm Pacific on Monday, May 24, 2004.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

stevedebi · May 2004

I am hypothesizing that 30 MPG over all. We won't know for sure until the vehicles arrive.

However, there are a lot of factors here. For example, my father has a 2001 Lincoln Town car that gets 20 MPG in town and 27 on the road, drive it any way you like. It has a V-8 engine. The point is that a larger engine can be mated to a transmission that takes advantage of the engine size and characteristics. So that Escape V6 may not be as fuel inefficient as some posts indicate.

ANT14 · May 2004

Escape Will Sell On the Coasts at First....

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=01564449

Source: Autoweek.com

bojohart · May 2004

My wife's 2003 Vibe, base model, gets 27 mpg around town, and over 35 on the Interstates..might as well be a hybrid!!

ANT14 · May 2004

And a bicycle is even more economical. But for those looking for a small SUV, this is what there is available with a hybrid.

rcf8000 · May 2004

I see where the Hybrid Escape has an optional nav system available, but no automatic climate control. But the Freestyle has automatic climate control but no nav system availability. I wonder what kind of thinking went into these decisions.

ANT14 · May 2004

Unfortunately research.... The Escape Hybrid (as what market research has indicated) will appeal to a more educated and knowledgable consumer, so such gadgets are deemed necessary. Plus, you gotta give someone something to "Oooooo, ahhhhhh" about.

Although I'm not fond of the screen, it's a bit too small for my taste, although the placement of keys are much better than most other systems.

Notice the Nav system in the Expy, is a bit different as well, from the Escape Hybrid. Look for that version (Expy), to trickle onto other products, but of course... only if consumer's buy them. If not, they won't be made available.

jchan2 · May 2004

printed the ordering guide for the Escape off the fordaxz website, and it says that a CD will be enclosed for the NAV package. ANT14, Is Ford using the now outdated CD system? If they are, are they giving you just a regional CD for your region and you have to buy CDs for other regions, or does it include a whole booklet of CDs for the country like Mercedes did back in the mid 90's with their models?

ANT14 · May 2004

I believe it's DVD based, one CD, and it'll cover the whole country.

jchan2 · May 2004

because I wasn't sure since the ordering guide said CD and not DVD.

shado4 · May 2004

I'm not quite sure the NAV system in the Escape Hybrid will be DVD based. The ordering guide specifically states CD, not DVD. Also, the guide says a "regional" CD will be included, which to me means a CD that covers a certain region of the U.S., not the entire nation.

If in fact the NAV system is CD based, there is no excuse for Ford to be putting in such antiquated technology into its new hybrid.

Can anyone from Ford confirm whether the NAV system is CD or DVD based?

jchan2 · May 2004

says it's DVD based, but I'm not sure either. The ordering guide says that a regional CD will be included, whatever that means.

Ford Escape Hybrid

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles