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Comments
Good for you and your wife. If more people would hold these guys down it would make it easier on all the rest. I think you are right about the Hybrid sales. When I talked to my friend at a big Ford agency here in San Diego. Before they went on the market she had 100 people with a deposit. I don't think they have sold that many of them. I called the other day and she said if I wanted one she could get it in less than a week. There are too many cars with big incentives. The saving in fuel is not enough for many people to pay even MSRP.
Merry Christmas, and a fun New Year in your new car....
I leave it to the readers to discern what these market data mean in terms of the overall economy...
Here is a link:
http://www.automedia.com/autoReviews/2005/ford/escape/rts20041101- eh.asp?affid=
I know for a fact that Ford does not yet have a modified trailer hitch for the FEH but are working on one.
I have researched the last several months and as of today this is only one on the market.
I know it is a good one because Hitch-Web installed mine about two weeks ago. There is no modification required for the rear facia as there will be for the Ford product.
The only hitch available is the Da'Lan (Curt) Class 2.5 Hitch sold by Hitch-Web.Com. for the 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid. The cost is about $223 with free shipping.
I know for a fact that Ford does not yet have a modified trailer hitch for the FEH but are working on one.
I have researched the last several months and as of today this is only one on the market.
I know it is a good one because Hitch-Web installed mine about two weeks ago. There is no modification required for the rear facia as there will be for the Ford product.
Thank you all for the good advice.
Mike
Have you looked underneath to see how clean the mount-up goes?
I understand that they since have sold a number of these. It was a very clean mod and install and I am amazed Ford or somebody else did not just cut out this piece before.
Mike
What follows is a post on another forum and my reply:
Post: Loss of 4WD Power
A wierd thing happended this weekend while testing the 4WD capabilities on a beach. This weekend we recieved our first snowfall here and I wanted to try to go out on the beach with my 4wd escape.
I think I understand from some of the road tests why this happens (the computer overrides accelerator requests) but the vechicle when it get stuck seems to not be able to use the full engine power to extricate itself.
For instance I drove a small way off the parking lot to start on trail heading out on the beach. The first part had a small pothole (less than 1'). The vechicle would NOT go climb the pothole even in LOW gear.
when going into reverse even less power.
The RPM's never get beyond 1500rpm. I spent about 20 harrowing mins rocking back forth to get back to the parking lot (I only ventured about 30' off the pavement)
Now it should be noted I did some beach trails several weeks earlier and did not have similiar problems but did not try to drive at slow speeds on the trails.
It shoiuld be noted that the vechicle was NOT hightpointed NOR were the wheels losing traction (as I was directly observing them as I was trying to rock out of the depression/hole)
My Reply:
You are not alone in trying to figure this out. I too have gotten into a position where rpms top out and there I am stuck and rockin and not rollin. I seem to top out at about 2500 and it is after I have been towing a load for awile and am on an uphill. At other times one of my front wheels drops into a hole to the hubs and though I get spin at the back it has pulled out with no problem. I have friends who have had your problem in snow trying to get back on a hard surface.
My first thought is that the 4WD is being automatically locked or disabled because of heat but no one, including myself, has noticed any indicator light in the message center like it is supposed to. I have then turned off the car for a few minutes, turned it back on and run a system check which shows '4 X 4 OK' and I seem to be then able to move forward again. You might try it yourself and watch for indicators.
In darker moments I start to think this loss of power under certainly less than 'extreme off-road conditions' (Ford's language for the override) is the result of a firmware bug in the 4WD sensor of the Powertrain Control Module because it seems to be shutting down my engine for no good reason but not giving me a blinking indicator light like it should. I have gone through the workshop manual but have yet to find a description of this kind of failure.
In trying to find a pattern in this case versus what I have heard from others when they lose power I have noticed that nobody has said that they lose power when all tires are on level ground. It happens when one wheel is in a depression or on hard ground that causes no slippage.
I heard from some that on level wet or level snowy the response is great. I wonder whether the PCM is shutting down the rpms when the wheel torque reaches a specific high number (caused because the wheels are not slipping). You engineer types out there perhaps can think about whether this theory is on the right track.
Mike
The idea is that you get better mileage on cruise control than by controlling the speed of the car yourself. If you are in the slow lane and want to use control, the tendency is to go at slow speeds to avoid having to play stop-and-go with cruise control, which is not recommended. Therefore, when a driver is mostly concerned with fuel efficiency, he will respect the speed limit and drive generally between 50 and 60 mph.
I have driven the Ford Escape Hybrid up to 90 mph on all types of inclines with no problem.
like Taurus, Explorer, etc. FFV vehicles can run on both
gasolene and E85 (Ethanol Fuel).
If they can apply this technology in Escape-Hybrid and call
it as Hybrid +, they can get a lot of publicity.
After all Hybrid Vehicles are the most talked subject among
the Alternative Fuel Vehicles.
Mostly I'll use my car to drive kids around, run errands, & go to work 2 days a week. I have a 30-min. ride through country roads to get there. I like the storage space in my old Explorer, but since we only do about 4 really big road trips a year I think I can learn to live with less space.
I have no need for towing and no huge desire for the 3rd row of seats in the Honda, but if I have the room I know I'll use it.
Any moms out there with any advice? Anyone with any info on how much service their car has needed? If you have problems is it expensive or difficult to get work done on the Hybrid?
I need to make a decision soon. Thanks! RP
Are hybrids reliable? Costly to service?
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Maybe he was new to CVT transmissions. I have a Civic Hybrid and an Escape Hybrid. Going up hill, the Civic will raise RPM to about 3000, then 4000 after a while, and then higher.
The Escape seems to jump to 4000 RPM pretty quickly, which makes it seem like it doesn't have any more power. Easing off the gas to get to a happier 35-3800 might leave him at 50mph, wishing he hadn't bought the stupid thing.
Stepping on the gas reveals that not only can it go faster, it has a surprising amount of power. You just have to ignore the 4000 RPM, and presume that the designers know what RPM range is correct.
Our uphill stretches have enough curves that the handling is far more of a limiting factor than the power, but traffic does move at 60+ up the hill. I don't know how long of a stretch will drain the battery, since there is no level guage, but I go from 1000 feet to 2500 feet in about 9 miles.
Welcome to the Forum. What you are saying makes sense. If I had a car that was revving over 4000 RPM I would back off also. My Suburban climbs that highway going 70 mph right at 2000 RPM. The Lexus is going 80 at 2100 RPM. I just cannot get used to the high revving engines. Maybe he just picked it up at the dealer and did not want to blow up his new car.
So the RPMs on these hybrids do not relate directly to the speed you are going?
Certainly people who love Hondas really LOVE Hondas. But so far I'm really impressed with the Ford.
___I own a Honda, the wife, an Acura, the landscape vehicle is a Ford P/U, and my older commuter is now my son’s Toyota. Where do I fall ;-)
___Actually, I like Ford’s more then most including Honda and Toyota in some respects. My Ranger in particular has not only given me the best dealership experience, the Ranger when brand new cost < $10,000 and came with amenities that even the MDX doesn’t have (lighted steering wheel controls, a trailer harness, and an Engine Block heater were std.). The Ranger has been receiving ~ 25% higher then EPA highway estimates in 10 - 30 degree F temperatures which I have never accomplished in the Insight, the Corolla, or the MDX in that cold a temperature. This is just amazing coming from the automobile company the Green groups just love to attack yet have the 03’s Greencar guides #1 pick in P/U’s and the Focus is the cheapest PZEV you could buy back then and from dealerships in all 50 states no less!
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
i enjoy your posts.
___If it’s not one Hybrid forum, its all forums that are playing this High Octane game as of late I use regular unleaded 87 Octane as sold in and around the Chicago area. All of Chicago’s fuel contains 10% ethanol and although it is a mileage killer (to the tune of ~ 1 - 2%), it supposedly reduces our dependence on foreign crude supplies although I have not studied the well to wheel analysis on ethanol itself just yet.
___Anyway, unless your timing was retarded via the KS, fuel economy will not improve with higher octane fuel. Given the way you need to drive to attain extremely high fuel economy, enough accelerator to have a KS pull timing back would kill all attempts at achieving that goal in my experience?
___I do enjoy a good push in the back side in a high performance automobile but cringe knowing how many ounces of actual fuel were burned for that fleeting moment in time :-(
___I only run 87 Octane in the MDX and Acura recommends 91 for maximum performance. Neither my wife (it is her daily driver) nor I (I don’t get to drive it that often :-() have ever been anywhere near WOT in that monster and thus its maximum performance HP and Torque numbers are just for show and tell ;-)
PS: Is your Focus one of the many PZEV varieties? Got to love the go kart like handling and performance, Super Hatch like utility (I am partial to the ZX5 myself ;-)) and the extremely low emissions all in tha same package!
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Thanks,
Peter
Several Prius owners who tried higher than 87 octane fuel had significant driveability problems.
I am a Hybrid owner and am after 2+ months extremely satisfied with performance.
my focus is a pzev, but the sedan teenager model Z(i)TS.
I have located the site of our first meeting of the Hybrid Owners of Southern California Area on Saturday, January 29th at 10:00 AM. Those that wish to take part should meet in the main parking lot of:
The Travel Town Transportation Museum
5200 Zoo Dr
Los Angeles, CA 90027
Saturday Hours: 10:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Web Page:
http://www.cityofla.org/RAP/grifmet/tt/information.htm#location
Map Page:
http://www.cityofla.org/RAP/grifmet/tt/travelimage/travelmap.gif
The proposed Agenda will be:
10:00 - 11:00 AM Assemble in Main Parking Lot (Look for Hybrids)
Proceed to the Main Picnic Area on the Museum Grounds.
11:00 - 12:00 AM Staggered Starts for Approximate 10 mile-long Slow
Course around Griffith Park (Maps will be Available). We are looking for best Elapsed MPG on either Dash Gauge or Nav System.
12:00 - 1:00 PM BYO Lunch at Travel Town Museum Picnic Grounds.
1:00 - 2:00 PM Staggered Starts for Approximate 10 mile-long Fast
Course on Freeways and Adjacent City Streets (Maps will be Available).
Travel Town offers old train attractions (Free) and there are other attractions within Griffith Park.
I am hoping not just Ford Escape Hybrid Owners and wanna-be owners attend. I would like to see interested drivers of other hybrids.
If anyone has a better idea for planning this meeting please post it.
Mike
* Critically acclaimed 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid adds 2005 North American Truck of the Year to its growing list of recognitions and accolades.
Distribution Source : PRNewswire
Date : Sunday - January 09, 2005
DETROIT, Jan. 9 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Ford Escape Hybrid -- the cleanest, most fuel-efficient SUV on the road -- has been named "North American Truck of the Year" for 2005.
Escape Hybrid received the 2005 North American Truck of the Year award this morning at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit. The award winner is determined by a panel of 50 automotive journalists from the United States and Canada.
"Escape Hybrid's combination of outstanding fuel economy and genuine Ford SUV go-anywhere capability, passenger room and cargo capacity sets it apart from other 'green' vehicles," said Ford Division President Steve Lyons. "Being selected 'Truck of the Year' is a great accomplishment for the world's first full-hybrid SUV. Escape Hybrid embodies our philosophy of great products, strong business and better world -- and paves the way for the future as we expand our commitment to hybrid technology."
We're up to 2200 miles now on our Escape hybrid and the mpg is still terrible.
We've done a few 2-hour road trips over the holidays, and plenty of freeway driving and had excellent results - close to 36 mpg. Once we get up to speed, we simply feather the gas pedal to keep our speed. It's not uncommon to have the engine shut off for long periods of time while we're at 70 mph.
But in the city is a completely different story. We still can't hit more than 10 mph without the engine kicking in, and many times, despite accelerating as slowly as possible, the engine kicks in right away. No matter what we do, we can't get more than about 17 mpg in the city.
Overall, we're not even getting 23 mpg - which pretty much defeats the purpose of getting a hybrid in the first place.
Is anyone else having this problem? Could it be a software thing telling the engine to kick in too soon? Maybe a battery problem (although it says energy levels are normal). We're getting really frustrated at this point because no one (not even Ford) can help us!
I think you are experiencing the price of being a guinea pig. I would not let the Ford dealership off the hook on that city mileage. What is weird with yours is the good mileage on the highway. Not something the HSD system excels on. The 5 Escapes that are reporting on greenhybrid are averaging 29 mpg. So yours is way below that amount. Keep taking it into Ford and let them know that the "lemon law" is there to protect against this kind of malfunction. Something is not working correctly. Lack of training at the dealership is not an excuse.
It's the CVT that does it. There's a posting on another forum from a guy with a Ford 500 CVT, and he's upset by the lack of power. I think it's the unfamiliar CVT that's doing it to him.
The CVT is going to set your engine RPM verses the load on the engine, probably favoring economy. In order to avoid losing speed on a hill, I try to use cruise control and ignore the sound of the engine. As you hit the slope, maybe doing 2000 RPM, the RPM will start to go up, although the speed stays the same, matching the power range of the engine to the task. On the one hand, it revs higher than you might think is right, but it's working easier, and never lugging. On the other hand, the change is sort of gradual, and isn't as noisy and harsh as downshifting a gear or two.
In my Honda, I like it. The Escape is noisier, but I'm getting used to it.
We're at about 2000 miles, AWD. The average is 25.8. On the highway, it gets around 28-30 at 75mph with four passengers and some luggage. In heavy city it ranges from 28-32, but 32 doesn't last for long, and is really urban.
An interesting point is driving style, or the hills around my house. I have a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid. Overall, I get 46mpg. Right around my house, it's lower, maybe around 41.
My wife actually let my drive the Escape for a week, and she stayed around the house in the Civic. I did some highway driving, some rainy driving, and wound up at 26.4mpg, not much different from her 25.8.
The interesting part is that her mileage in the Civic around the house was maybe 35-36. I didn't reset the meter, but the tank was 39, and 1/3 of that should have been 45+.
What this tells me is that the Escape is getting the same mileage 25-28, regardless of city, highway, hills, driver... the Civic ranges from her low around the house, which is quite hilly, to 60mpg at a 60mph cruise.
In both cars, A/C is a big hit on mileage. In the civic, using the A/C (even defrost) a lot knocks 2-2.5mpg off an average tank.
In the Escape, I notice that if it is even thinking about raining, I have to have the A/C on. The windows fog up in a hurry, much more so than the Civic. It only knocks about 1 mpg off, I think, but I have to run it more often.
Yes, we realize that coming back up the hill our MPG will drop. But the rest of our city driving is almost completely flat. Even if you discount the drive back up the hill at the end, we're still only getting maybe 18 mpg in the city.
Also of interest to someone is that the xm installation knocked out my IQue 3600 gps mounted above the radio.
If your foot is on the brake the energy is not being applied to the motor to simulate creep.
The Escape will not get 40MPG in its current configuration, it's just too heavy.
Engine RPM/Vehicle Speed Limiter
The powertrain control module (PCM) disables some or all of the fuel injectors whenever an engine RPM or vehicle over-speed condition is detected. The purpose of the engine RPM or vehicle speed limiter is to prevent damage to the powertrain. The vehicle exhibits a rough running engine condition, and the PCM stores continuous diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P1270. Once the driver reduces the over-speed condition, the engine returns to the normal operating mode. No repair is required. However, the technician should clear the DTC and inform the customer of the reason for the DTC.
Excessive wheel slippage may be caused by sand, gravel, rain, mud, snow, ice, or excessive and sudden increase in RPM while in NEUTRAL or while driving.
Mike
Hope this helps.