BMW European Delivery

markjenn · April 2003

I think you'd be wise to keep your speeds reasonable and not do steady high-speed cruising in a new BMW, particularly the first few hundred miles.

But that's not a huge issue on the Autobahn because although there are a lot of cars really moving, there are also a lot of very small cars going fairly slowly. A lot of folks picture some kind of wide-open Montana-driving experience, when in fact, it is fairly crowded on the Autobahn with a lot of slower moving traffic. The places where you can really go super fast are not the common, although there are some good stretches S. of Munich. But you can also go slower if you want - just stay out of the left lane.

If I were getting my new ED BMW, I'd avoid the Autobahn initially and enjoy the winding and scenic back roads. This will be better for the car and better for your vacation. The Autobahns, like US interstates, are for making time, not enjoying the ride.

It is probably more important that you attempt to stay out of very heavy traffic in the cities than to avoid the Autobahn. Sitting around idling in traffic is probably the worst thing you an do for a new engine. I recall the last BMW I bought (a E36 M3), the salesman started up my brand new car (with 2 miles on the odo) and we sat in it for 45-mnutes straight with the engine idling so he could explain features to me. Probably unrelated, but this was the same car that required a new "short block" four years later for excessive piston slap. Idling is really bad for a new engine. Nice winding roads with light traffic and lots of varying throttle/speeds are ideal.

- Mark

sigurros · April 2003

Thanks guys. So I guess I should really take things easy at first until the car's broken into.

Mark - thanks for the insight. I guess I've got the perception that everyone's flying on the Autobahn, when that's not necessarily the case. I didn't know that idling for a new car is bad either. This helps. Thanks!

jb_shin · April 2003

Well, down south it is quite crowded, but if you head north, there are many places where you can cruise at high speeds. A9 from Munich all the way up to Berlin is where I drive often. It is not too bad around Leipzig for about 60-70 miles where you can open up. From Berlin to Hannover and Hamburg, you can open up pretty much the entire way. That is where I test drove an M5 and that was FUN! Avoid holiday weekends and you can definitely have some fun, at speeds you can only dream of in the US.

shipo · April 2003

Hi gang, I just got back from Paris (saw a new E60 on the Periferique last Thursday afternoon) last night, so I have missed a bit.

BlueOx2, if you go to the bottom of the post area on your screen and enter the number 313 in the "Go To Msg#" box and hit the "Go" button next to it, that will take you to the beginning of my series of posts regarding ED. I don't know if my posts were what you were looking for, however, if you have any questions, I would be happy to try and answer them for you.

Best Regards,
Shipo

enforcer · April 2003

My understanding is that California will not charge a sales or use tax on an automobile that has been driven for 90+ days outside of California. Unfortunately the time spent in transit from Germany to US does not count towards the 90 days.

Has anyone tried importing an ED car through a dealer in an adjacent state (e.g. Oregon, which has no sales tax) and then driving across the California border in 3 months? Presumably your insurance would be cheaper in the USA, particularly non-urban areas.

seivwrig · April 2003

You would probably have to own a home in Oregon to pull this off. As long as you live in California, regardless of where you purchase the car, you will have to pay the sales tax for your home state.

You really have to weigh the costs. If you could keep the vehicle in Germany for 91 days, you need to consider what is the cost of insurance for 4 months in Germany. I don't think that the road tax kicks in this month seven (jb_shin would know the answer to this one). Do you have relatives in Germany and will they let you car stay in their garage for 91 days? This seems like a lot of work to beat California Sales tax.

Ideally, you want to get the car for cheapest price possible to decrease the amount of sales tax on the car. Or in a make believe world, have someone with the money to buy the car. Then sell it to you for significantly less than value, therefore you pay less sales tax. Then pay that person the rest of their money under the table. You could always move to Oregon.

jb_shin · April 2003

Although I am not paying for it due to our status here, the roadtax kicks in after the first 90 days. It is about 85.00 euro or so for the whole year, and I believe there is no difference whether the car stays 91 days or 360 days.

dill6 · April 2003

We're considering a 3-series and the idea of a more-or-less free euro vacation is certainly appealing - I'm just left wondering 'why?' its cheaper to take delivery there? You're paying the same shipping fees to bring the car back, the same U.S. dealer has to make a profit - I don't see how its any different from ordering a car for U.S. delivery. I don't believe the exchange rate's that favorable, is it?

One other question - we're kind of wobbling between a 325 and the Z-4 - is there any discount available by arranging delivery in So. Carolina on the Z-4?

Thanks for all the great info here - v. interesting reading.

shipo · April 2003

I think that the Z4 is built in North Carolina, and as such, is not available for ED. As for why ED cars cost less, there was much speculation about that a few years ago over on the 3-Series board. I don't think we ever solved that one. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

erickpl · April 2003

On a Z4 delivery in Carolina, you MIGHT be able to avoid the shipping charge, but I would think that would be about it as far as savings. Besides, you'd probably pump that right back in to take the driving schools they offer there.

-Paul

hgeyer · April 2003

The savings is derived from the fact that by taking delivery in Germany and putting miles (even a single mile) on the car, you're technically importing a used car into the US vs. a new one. The import duties for a new car no longer apply.

shipo · April 2003

The "Used Car means Lower Duties" theory was one that I floated a couple of years ago (and still suspect to be at least partially valid), however, many "Experts" jumped in and told my why that was not the case. :-/

Best Regards,
Shipo

hgeyer · April 2003

I first saw the "duty theory" on Volvo's web site, where they describe their ED program. That was 2 years ago and I've noted that such comment is no longer their site.

skobola · April 2003

As much as I know, if you (and you may take one person with you) decide to go to Spartanburg, South Carolina, to pick up your car, this would give you and that other one a delivery center tour, one day driving school (for both) on the same car that you bought (theirs, not yours!), free transportation from the airport and a free night and dinner in a hotel. To me the best part is the driving school and the fact that I would almost break-in my car when I drive home (to Miami). Note that this does not apply only to Z4's, but to any other Bimmer, including the Germany/S.Africa-made ones, like 3-series, for example.

sddennehy · April 2003

shipo · April 2003

Always have been.

bobliz1 · April 2003

Has anyone had the unfortunate opportunity to use the included insurance? Do you have to have the car repaired at a certain facility, possibly having to extend a trip, or can you have the car repaired upon return to the US and then file a claim?

Do the European license plates get left on the car upon return? Any input will be appreciated.

loubct · April 2003

You get to remove the front plate when you drop off the car at the shipping agent. The rear plate is left on the car. It is used to monitor the vehicle en route.

sddennehy · April 2003

After reading the confirmation letter from BMW for my ED pickup I was led to believe that this was a new thing because is said something like "Floor mats are now being installed on all ED cars", which made me think that at one point they didn't. My only question would be does this also pertain to cars which didn't pay for floor mats in the original purchase agreement?

shipo · April 2003

I did my first research on ED back in 1998 when I was shopping for a new car (I got a 1999 328i), and since that time, floor mats have been part of the ED deal. I suppose there are a few uninformed/unscrupulous dealers out there who charge for the floor mats on ED cars, or who suggest you are getting the mats "Thrown in for free", but if I ever discover one, I will find somewhere else to shop.

Best Regards,
Shipo

330ifan · April 2003

I live in the Houston area, and am interested in purchasing a 330i via ED if I can get a sizable discount off of ED MSRP.

Has anyone in the Houston area been able to buy a 330i this year at a significant discount off of ED MSRP? If so, how did you do? Also, how soon into the 2004 model year do you think I will be able to get a comparable discount from the Houston dealer that you purchased from?

530ir1150r · April 2003

Our ED delivery included floor mats. When the car arrived at our dealer it also had a set of new mats in addition to the ED mats. We did not order or pay extra for either set. Because the Sand mats stained quickly in Europe I purchased a set of dark brown mats before our car arrived here. Now I have 3 sets of floor mats. I was under the impression though that the ED mats would be removed either in Europe or at the customs center here. WE also still had the ED rear plate and Swiss Road Tax sticker upon arrival.

seivwrig · April 2003

I will make a statement and postoak will probably do the same. In Houston, you cannot get a sizable discount. The only dealers that I know of in Texas that will do the discount are Mike Pile in Tyler and Garlyn Shelton in Temple. Momentum/Advantage and BMW North will do no more than $500 off of ED MSRP plus a slew of other fees. If you do go with a Houston dealer, do not pay the VIT Tax. Try to get out of paying the MACO if you can (I have not heard any people in Houston that have beat this). Momentum/Advantage also tack on for Dealer prep fee (this is basically floor mats and VIN etching).
The only reason to buy from a Houston dealer is for the loaner. If you buy out of town, you are not obligated to get a loaner. BMW North has the best sales service of the four Houston dealers. If you want to use Momentum S.W., you can contact my sales advisor,Jim Phelan.
I did get manage to get more than $500 taken off but it is long story with little effort.

jakumaba · April 2003

I just accepted a ED offer on an '03 530i using the Rizzo method (faxed to 12 dealers, 2 responded). My terms were "wholesale" ED invoice found at the eurobuyers website, plus dealer profit of less than $1,000 (at suggestion of a poster to this board). Basically, 7% less than ED MSRP. It seemed particularly painless and even fun. Thanks particularly to Shipo for substantive comments overall, which boosted my confidence level in trying this. I'll be sure to report back on overall experience when I come back from Europe at end of summer, if you don't hear from me sooner.

enforcer · April 2003

just curious, as i am planning to buy a 3-series through ED later this year.

how far did you have to go to get your deal?

what was the final amount of dealer profit?

330ifan · April 2003

Seivwrig,

Thanks for the feedback.

I recently learned on another Edmunds thread that Advantage BMW was willing to sell a 2003 325i for a small profit over invoice. I met yesterday with the salesman at Advantage, who confirmed this pricing for the 330i that I want to buy.

He said that if I want to buy ED, however, he can't discount much, if at all. Any thoughts as to why many dealers are so inflexible regarding ED pricing but more flexible with U.S. delivery?

What kind of discounts are Mike Pile in Tyler and Garlyn Shelton in Temple willing to give with ED?

markjenn · April 2003

I think the big reason why dealers vary so much on ED pricing is the same reason that they vary so much on pricing in general - supply and demand. If they feel that the other dealers in the area are holding firm on ED pricing, then they know you probably won't have other options and will pay whatever it takes.

In general, people buying ED seem to be more willing to pay full (or nearly full) price and this keeps the market propped up. There is an erroneous perception that ED is a special "fixed discount" and that is is non-negotiable. And people in general feel that when someone is giving them a discount, that it may appear greedy to ask for a further discount. None of this is really true, but if 75% of customers believe it, then many dealers may be happy to forgo the penny-pinchers and concentrate instead on the easy-going, higher-margin customer. It's a dealer policy thing.

Many dealers complain that ordering and delivering ED is a PITA too. They say it is not just "paperwork" and the paperwork is non-trivial. There may be things going on in how the dealer gets his money and how it affects future allocations as well. I don't know how much of this is true.

A final consideration might be the dealers may find ED customers are much less likely to buy the "packs" in the finance mgrs office or spend additional money during closing on accessories, maintenance plans, and other high-profit items. And perhaps ED customers are less loyal to the selling dealerships service department. Dealerships need this stuff - they can't keep their doors open selling cars at $1K over invoice. Someone who works at a dealership once told me that 80% of the profit made in new car sales is made in finance kickbacks, maintenance plan margins, credit insurance, and packs (e.g, pinstripes, paint protection, fabric protection, etc.). You haven't lived until you've really come under the gun in the finance mgr's office to buy some of this stuff. I've literally had to threaten to torpedo a deal if they don't just shut up about it and let me buy the car. It's not unlike hamburgers and soft drinks: McDonalds loses money on every sandwich it sells and makes all their profit on soft drinks.

Probably a combo of all these things.

- Mark

seivwrig · April 2003

I have heard that Garlyn Shelton will do $1000 above invoice. I think that is the lowest that I have heard of. Mike Pile is probably compable(sp?). This especially great if you are a BMWCCA member and have been one for more than a year. Then you can get a $500 back. This will make your discount even higher overall. Too bad that the $500 rebate is not a discount that you can take off the top. Sorry for the digression. You can email me at seivwrig@swbell.net if you want any more info.

dusterbuster · April 2003

just to clarify on a point raised above, there are NO MACO OR T/S FEES ON ED cars. there was some question regarding whether i would have to pay these fees but i confirmed it directly with BMW European Delivery this morning that these fees are not charged for ED cars. just another reason to go the ED route.

seivwrig · April 2003

It is interesting that you have found this out. If I buy another BMW next year, I will not buy in Houston. The dealers are definitely working in their best interest. I have no problem with a dealer making a profit, but the milking is ridiculous... MACO, T/S, VIT (TX), Prep Fees. This is absolutely pathetic. I know that Momentum would rather lose a sale than not charge all the fees. Either there are alot of dealerships that don't know some of the things that we know about ED or they are lying and/or playing dumb and ignorant. I think when I saw your post on Bimmerfest, I could have sent my salesman a nasty note.

sambeam · April 2003

Hi Guys:

Based on your experience can someone recommend a hotel to stay near the Delivery Center as well as the drop-off center? Are they both pretty close - then it's great.

also, how far is it from MUC airport (train station name) etc.

thanks a lot,
sambeam

jbf5 · April 2003

Sambeam, I stayed a night at the Hotel Uhland a few weeks ago, based on recommendations from this board, and was very pleased. The staff are friendly and polite as well as English-speaking, the rooms are clean and nice, and there's a good buffet breakfast included in the room rate. It's walking distance from the main train station, which is an easy subway ride from the airport subway station. I think it's between the delivery center and the Harms dropoff center. Took about 45 minutes to get to Harms around 8:00 am on a weekday. They have some private parking spaces behind the hotel, which are a squeeze with a 5 Series, but worked well enough once we manuevered in.

sddennehy · April 2003

I too am staying at the Uhland, glad you had a good experience.

530ir1150r · May 2003

We stayed at the Olympic Park Best Western last July. It takes two subways to get to the Delivery Center, but it only took 5 minutes. The Hotel Plaza includes a subway station. BMW Museum and Headquarters are within walking distance, excellent off street parking, excellent views of the Olympic Campus, includes breakfast and you hear school children on the way to school.

530ir1150r · May 2003

I need to make a correction. We stayed at the Olymic Park Four Points Hotel, not Best Western.

dusterbuster · May 2003

i really hope these dealerships are simply ignorant, rather than outright lying. maybe some of them just don't do a lot of ED orders?

chrisjoo · May 2003

My parents are thinking about getting either 2003 or 2004 BMW 5 series. I told them how they can save couple thousand bucks by doing ED. They are little skeptical about ED, and I haven't done ED yet. My parents want 530 sedan with PP, Steptronic, Navigation, Cold weather package. I got a price from Eurobuyers.

530i $34,785
Steptronic $1,210
PP $2,095
Navigation $1,640
Cold Weather Package $545
Destination $695
Dealer Profit $1,000
Total $41,970

Is $1000 profit for dealer for the 5 series possible? Does anyone know any dealers in D.C metro area who do a lot of ED? Is it too late to get 2003 5 series by ED? Thanks.

shipo · May 2003

A couple of years ago, I read that Passport BMW in Marlow Heights, MD was VERY ED friendly. You might want to give them a call.

Yes, $1,000 over ED Invoice is doable.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jakumaba · May 2003

Use the Rizzo method with your ED invoice prices(fax as many dealers in your area as you can), and you can't go wrong. You can go below $1,000 on dealer profit, and you've nothing to lose by trying. According to my dealer contacts, '03 models can be had through ED until June, but hurry.

chrisjoo · May 2003

I think my parents want to get 2004 530i. They think anything new is cool and they don't think exterior doesn't look that bad. I think current 5 looks better outside (2004 interior looks better though), but it's their money. So my opinion doesn't really matter.

BTW, my family has at least 1 car per person, so they have to sell either 96 Chrysler Town & Country or 2000 Acura TL (both with lots of mileage.) I heard that trading in old cars for ED can be painful, I wonder if it's true or not.

Also, what kind of service does Eurobuyers offer? Is it cheaper to go through Eurobuyers than using Rizzo method ($1000 dealer profit) for myself?

jakumaba · May 2003

You'd probably be better off trying to get rid of the old cars yourself, ED or not.
You be the judge on Eurobuyers. There's a website you can look at. When I inquired, the operator of that enterprise did not want my business because I asked for a couple of recent references for sales he handled. He became very snooty and said he was "too busy" and didn't have time for that (and he was just way too controlling for me). It might have value if you don't have a fax machine, but I did much better via Rizzo.

gohuskies · May 2003

We stayed at the Munich Marriott which is very close to the delivery center and rooms can be secured through Priceline.com at a very competitive rate. There are many hotel discussions on:
www.bimmerfest.com under the European delivery section that are worth reading.

cmhammock · May 2003

I just got back from taking delivery of a 330Ci via ED. I had Marriott 'frequent stayer' points and ended up staying at the "Airport Marriott", which is really about 10 miles from the airport in Freising. It worked very well. The hotel was good, modern, comfortable, the staff were great, and protected parking was 7.50 (Euro) a night. Freising is a small but interesting town, just big enough to walk around in an afternoon/evening. I highly recommend it. After staying there, we drove back to where I had business in Zurich (enjoying the autobahn, but keeping within break-in guidelines. ) We dropped it off in Zurich last Thur morning (5/15).

sddennehy · May 2003

cmhammock - I dropped my 330ci off Thursday afternoon also and saw your car in the lot, looked good. The truck came that afternoon to pick them up for the trip to Bremmerhaven.

cwadster · May 2003

I have read where if you use European Delivery, you will make a payment or two while waiting for the car. I'm planning on leasing a 330i for 36 months. Does this mean I could be making payments for 36 months, but only driving the car for 34, or do they put the lease time "on hold" while the car is in transit?

seivwrig · May 2003

Yes, it is possible that you could make a payment or two before you even drive the car. I purchased my 3 series and I did not make a loan payment until I returned from England. ED is tricky in that you do not want to trade in your car if it is the only car that you have. If you trade in a car, you need to have an extra car. Plus the car has to financed before you pick it up in Germany. If you always lease, then you could have overlapping leases.

markjenn · May 2003

I believe the rule is that you have to close and "pay" for the car 30-days before you take delivery in Europe. So your financing or leasing takes effect then. If the car takes four-weeks to get home you'll essentially make two extra payments compared to a straight purchase deal where you'd close and start th payment clock on the day you take delivery at your US dealer.

Some will disagree here, but I'll maintain that for a typical customer who places no value on the use of the car in Europe, you'll probably come out about even for ED vs. conventional buying. Thus, ED is difficult to justify on strictly economic terms. But if you place any value on being able to drive the car in Europe, then it is a very good deal.

- Mark

blueguydotcom · May 2003

According to all the pricing I've seen, a 330i with sports, xenon, moonroof, metallic paint and park distance control comes up to 39,300 MSRP. The invoice price is 36,300. So if i got the car for 1500 over invoice (an amount of profit that nauseates me) I'd be looking 37,800.

According to eurobuyers.com the same car with $1200 dealer profit would equal 34,775.

Even assuming a flight and one night's stay in Munich at $1500 (crazy high considering a flight is $6-700), it still appears to me that I'd save over 1.5k dollars.

Am I doing something wrong? Unless the dealer is willing to part with a 330i at invoice, it appears to me ED is the only option to save some coin.

markjenn · May 2003

again, you have to pay for the ED car 30-days before you leave rather than 2-3 months later and if you trade, the dealer will likely want possession of your trade at closing, so you'll have to arrange for another car. (If you sell your current car privately, you can simply delay the sale, but in many states, there will be sales tax consequences as well as the hassle of selling yourself.)

- Mark

blueguydotcom · May 2003

Well I'd never trade a car in as you take a financial bath on it - reselling is so easy I'm unsure why people leave 2-3k on the table.

As for the 30 days/2-3 months thing I am a tad confused. Do you mean that if one orders a BMW then one pays for it 3 months later, while the ED must be paid for before you pick it up in Germany and then you wait the 6 weeks for it to arrive in CA?

My parents pointed out that I have plenty of family in Germany (Black Forest region) and they're sure my uncle would want to go so I could see portions of Europe for the first time with someone who knows the land well.

BMW European Delivery

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