2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

reellaw · February 2004

eelade, reellaw here--

Where is Marlboro, N.J? Is that where King is?

eelade · February 2004

Still shows as private ... I made mine public, but still shows as private.

eelade · February 2004

It's about two towns away from King.

kdshapiro · February 2004

eelade - it's public..

bentleyfam25 · February 2004

I've negotiated three times for BMW's in the last few years, and had my best success with JMK and Hoffman. JMK tends to be scrappy and willing to deal more. Hoffman is more professional and reserved. Contact the internet salesguys at both locations. I also was able to make good progress with the internet salesguy at Park Ave BMW in Manhattan.

I've found the internet guys are experienced at dealing over the phone, and if you deal among them over a period of a few weeks, you can usually reach the lowest maket price. You don't have to visit the dealer except to pick up the car. The regular guys are uncomfortable over the phone and usually don't deal well with it, IMHO.

It's important to establish knowledge and credibility when you do phone negotiation. They get a lot of tire-kickers and a few wackos calling them. Do your homework; know *exactly* what you want and don't change it; be professional; build a speadsheet; and know what the best deal can be (lots of data here on that, certainly). Don't try to get the best deal on the first phone call. You should be able to do well.

Best of luck.

arielle · February 2004

My dealer just called to tell me he's getting a BMW rep's car to sell:
2003 325i
Titanium silver
Grey Leather
Premium package, including dark wood trip (vs myrtle)
automatic
rear side impact bags
fold down rear seats
heated front seats
xenon lights
harmon-kardon sound
10,000 miles

He's asking $31,500 and including a 100,000mi 6 yr warranty. Is this a good deal? He says these cars usually go as soon as they get them in. Should i try for a lower price instead of the extra warranty? My first choice was going to be a 2004 in black sapphire with natl brown leather. I didn't care about the upgraded sound system or the heated seats. Let me hear some opinions. Thanks!

kyfdx · February 2004

Bought mine in December... 7700 miles.. mine had all the same options, only it had sport pkg also, but not CPO. It was also a factory official car, but not bought at BMW dealer. I paid $29,500. The CPO warranty is a good thing, and will increase the resale value even if you don't keep the car that long.

I'm surprised that one doesn't have sport pkg, as almost all the factory official cars do. For comparison, in December, a local dealer offered me one pretty much identical to the one you are looking at, only red/gray and with Sport for $30,900. That was also CPO.

Prices have been really dropping for used BMWs in the last month or so. I would think that $30K would be about all the money for this one. If he has already CPOed the car, he can't take it off.

If he is asking $31,500, hit him with an offer of $29,500 and see what happens. I'm sure he's got a little room to come down. Check on the sport package also.. That is a $1400 option. Sport seats are great, and the 17" wheels add to the looks and handling.

Just re-read post.. I don't have rear side airbags.

regards,
kyfdx

crashtestdingo · February 2004

On Feb 4, 2004 at9:36am, kyfdx wrote:

>The reason I say leasing at 4K miles doesn't make sense, is that
>usually the lowest lease mileage they will write is 10K/year.
>You are paying for depreciation you aren't using.

Understood, but can you put a ballpark $ figure on how much unused depreciation that is? I'm wondering if a person who drives just 4K miles per year might consider the advantages of leasing over purchasing worth the cost of that unused depreciation.

kyfdx · February 2004

It would just be a guess on my part though.

I'll use a current example:
2001 325i.. MSRP new approx $33,000
62% residual for 3yr/30K lease $20,460 today

So, with 30K miles, its worth $20,460.
How much more would it be worth with only 12K miles? Tough one to answer.. They both are low-mileage cars. Under normal circumstances, they both will have only one more year of warranty left.

My uneducated guess is the difference is about $1500, if the cars are identical, except for mileage. That is about $41/mo over 36 months.

If I drove that little, I would buy, and drive for at least four years, while it was under warranty.

regards,
kyfdx
(whose opinion is worth what you pay for it)

ah64dude · February 2004

Just to give a little info..if you have chance to go to Germany..the flight may be worth the money you save on a BMW. I am an American soldier living in Germany. I just ordered a 330ci Performance Package..now available in 2 door.

OPTIONS
ZHP
moonroof
Harman Kardon
Sat Nav
Xenon lights
Heated Seats
6 CD changer
PDC

total price is $42890

I'm not sure how you could work this but I am sure there is a way.

crashtestdingo · February 2004

How did you order it? Through a German dealer? Or does BMW have a special program for U.S. servicemen and women stationed in Germany?

BMW does have a European delivery program for U.S. residents. You have to go to a BMW dealer to take advantage of it, though. It's my understanding that the only way a buyer or lessee saves money through such a program is if he or she is going to be vacationing in Europe anyway. Thus, he or she would be spending money on airfare anyway and would save money by not having to rent a car while in Europe.

Back in the early-to-mid '80s when the dollar was really strong and the German maufacturers didn't have competition from the Japanese, there was an active "gray market." Cars would be bought in Europe and shipped to the U.S. without the manufacturer's involvement. Once they arrived here, they were "federalized" so they could be registered and driven here. I doubt that the manufacturers' U.S. subsidiaries honored the European warranties, though.

In the fall of 1984 or 1985 or 1986, my father went to Germany and bought an Audi 80 GT that had been left over from the previous model year for about $8,000. He didn't ship it to the U.S., though; he drove it to Greece (from where he had emigrated) to use whenever he was on vacation there. It still runs nicely even though it sits unused for months at a time.

mztexasx · February 2004

I have found a new 2003 325i with the features that I want (Premium Pkg, automatic) and the dealer said that they are selling the 03's at invoice. The invoice price for the 03' that I am looking at is 29820. My husband and I are trying to decide if we should go for it or look into the 04'. Any thoughts? I have also been searching to see if there are any dealer incentives on the 03's and have not found anything yet. Anyone know about any incentives?
Thanks--

jamesspot · February 2004

Someone mentioned purchasing with a credit union loan. Most credit unions will do the loan paperwork and let you shop with a "check" for the Dealer that works as your signature on the loan terms for you.
From my Credit Union's web site:
New Vehicle Loan from NFCU
2.90% up to 36 mos.
4.90% 37 to 48 mos.
5.50% 49 to 60 mos.
5.90% 61 to 72 mos.
5.90% 73 to 84 mos.
5.90% 85 to 96 mos.

kyfdx · February 2004

The '03 325i's had a $2K incentive in the fall. If they are selling you at invoice without deducting that incentive, then it is not a very good deal. What is the MSRP of the '03 that you are looking at?

For example: At the end of November, I was offered $1300 under invoice on a new '03. The MSRP was approximately $36K, with an approximate invoice of $33K, resulting in selling price of $31,700.

A good deal on the car you are looking at, is going to be at least $4K under MSRP. Something closer to $4500-5000 under MSRP would be a very good deal, assuming car is brand new.

regards,
kyfdx

arielle · February 2004

Dealer has offered me the following:
'04 325i: Premium pkge, metallic paint, automatic, xenon headlights, fold down rear seats, leather for a total price of $35,225. I started at $34,270 ($1k over invoice) and he started telling me about advertising, training fees, clean/prep car, floor mats and telling me at this price he's only making $1500 on the car. Does anyone think this is a decent deal? I still have to pay taxes, title, recording fees, etc. I walked away and said I'd let him know. Looking to seal this deal asap as it will take 6-8 wks to build and deliver. Thanks for all input.

apurush · February 2004

I am looking for a 04' 325i (5-spd) with sport and performance package. The MSRP on that is $33295, Invoice is $30,520 and the TMV is $32,573.
Does anyome have any inputs on whether I can get it at invoice or close to invoice?

Thanks.

mztexasx · February 2004

Thanks kyfdx.

The 03 is brand new and the MSRP is $32,470. We arrived at the dealer right when they were closing because we were caught in traffic. Therefore, we did not get a chance to really talk prices. I only found out that they were offering the 03's at invoice. Thanks for the info on the Nov. incentive. I will see if we can use that when we start talking price. Has anyone dealt with VOB in Rockville, MD? If so, how was your experience?

kennynmd · February 2004

from my experience and others I have read on this board, VOB BMW serbvice isn't all that great. I ended up buying my 03 325ci from Tischer BMW after going to VOB twice. Both times were on weekdays and they were slow. Both times I walked around their lot looking and noone approached me or even asked me if I needed help. It could be my age(26) and maybe they thought there was no way I was buying a BMW. I went to Tischer and they offer great service before and after I bought the car.

kyfdx · February 2004

Geeezzz... How many '03s do they have left? The two dealers in town here were all out by the end of the year. If that car has everything you want and need, I'd hit them at about $28K and maybe settle for $28.5-29K. You will have a hard time finding an '04 for anything close to that considering the price increase and the low amount of options on that one.

My guess is they would love to move that car, and have either had a hard time, or maybe they aren't much for dealing.

Good Luck!!
kyfdx

EDIT: Did they offer the car at the $29,800 price? Or did you get that number by looking up the invoice price on Edmunds? Because, if they say they are selling at invoice and didn't quote you a price, tell them you know about the $2K incentive and want it for invoice minus the incentive.. Be aware there are probably MACO fees on the invoice as well. This could turn out to be a great deal, if they really want to get rid of that car.. And I bet they do.. I wouldn't let them know you are considering an '04 if you don't get that one. That would only hurt your negotiating position.

jxbst15 · February 2004

I just purchased an off 1 year lease black '02 325i that was pretty much loaded. Had the leather seats, cold weather package, premium package, stereo upgrade, and xenon lights. It has 16K miles and has the extended warranty. Got it for $26K at Carmax of all places.

I think that's a middle of the road deal, but boy I have no regrets after driving it around the last 2 weeks.

mztexasx · February 2004

kennynmd- thanks for the info. I will check out Tischer too before making a final decision. We live very close to the dealer in Sterling, so I think whatever we decide, we would use the Sterling dealer for future service.

kyfdx- I got the number from looking it up on Edmunds. We will see how well they negotiate with us if we decide to go this route.

crashtestdingo · February 2004

There's a discussion entitled "better to buy where you intend to get it serviced?" here on the Smart Shopper message board. You might want to check it out, although there's no consensus that you should expect to get blown off when you take a car in for warranty service to a dealership from which you did not buy it. Be prepared for it to possibly happen, though.

diestelmeier · February 2004

Hey all -- great thread -- wondering if anyone has made a recent purchase or can share any insights about dealing in the Milwaukee and Chicago areas. I want to buy a well-optioned '04 330Ci, and probably will have to order it to get what I want.

Also, while I'm at it -- I'm wondering if anyone has regretted getting the optional 18-inch cross-drilled wheels. I think they look fantastic and fill the wheel well nicely, and that the 255-35's give the car a great stance, but am concerned they might ride harshly. Any thoughts or experience welcome -- Mark

bimmer12 · February 2004

i can't comment on the price but the 3 series are discounted so expect to pay under MSRP and within $1500 of invoice if not much cheaper.

As for the 18" wheels- great option to get and I don't personally think it compromises harshness of ride albeit stiffer, better handling. The concern I would have are road conditions such as potholes in a winter environment.. Not cheap to replace and I would suggest running 16" winters to combat this problem... replacing on 18" wheel is close in price for a set of 16" winter steelies

janoo · February 2004

Hey Guys,

I have leased a new BMW 2004 325xi(awd). Just curious to know if any one can give me advice regarding my lease deal, here are the specs:
12/k per annum,
automatic streptonic transmission,
Gray Green metallic,
leatherette,
premium package,
heated seats,
My total out of pocket expenses is $2531. This includes all taxes, first months payment, bank and acquisition fees and dmv fees. I have no more out of pocket expenses. My lease is $405 per month for 36 months. Can you please tell me if this is a reasonable deal or that I can do better? I will be picking up the car on Feb 21st.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Janoo

nyccarguy · February 2004

We need to know a little more about the parameters of your lease. What is the MSRP of the car and what is the invoice? Why are you paying the taxes up front? You should roll the taxes into the lease payment. In the event of the car being totalled or stolen, you lose the taxes you paid up front.

nusiennalvr · February 2004

Are the incentives(2k) that were being offered on the remaining 2003 models a few months back still in effect if the dealer has new 03's on his lot? We are taking our 1998 325 in for an oil change next Saturday, and I know our local dealer has leftovers. Just wanted to be informed before I start to look. And, am I correct in saying that if so, I should be able to purchase one for $1500 below invoice? We like our upgrades, and we have to purchase rather than lease due to yearly mileage, so if this information is accurate, now might be our best time. Thank you for any information you can pass on!!

kyfdx · February 2004

Technically, the incentives expired at the end of November. However, virtually every dealership "punches" the cars that are left, in effect, notifying BMWNA that they are sold, collecting the incentive. If they claim there is no incentive on the car, then I sure wouldn't even pay invoice for a car, that you could have bought under invoice in November.

Hope this helps,
kyfdx

bxs98 · February 2004

Hi All,

I received special offers from a S. California BMW dealer. The offers are $500 over invoice for all the 2004 325IA, $2000 over invoice for all 2004 525IA and $1500 over invoice for all 2004 X5 3.0 in dealer inventory, the special offers will end 2/29/04.
Does anyone know there is incentive program going on? It makes me wondering because the same dealer did not lower its profit less than $1500 for a 2004 325IA last month.

The dealer offered me $29328 +500 = $29828 on a titanium silver metallic/ black leatherette 2004 325IA with moonroof and floor mats. The price is final sales price + T&L.

I compared the dealers invoice to the Edmunds $ 29020 and Carsdirects $29277, they are very closed. What do you guys think of this deal? Shall I run or wait? Thanks for your help!

nusiennalvr · February 2004

Thank you for that information. I want to have all my information correct before I start to negotiate. If not, they really can take advantage of you. And, end of incentives can be a fuzzy area...if the dealers are still able to cash in on them, we should be able to benefit as well. From your information, I won't offer to pay more than invoice for an 03. Thanks!

kyfdx · February 2004

Get a good idea of what invoice is before you go in. It looks like you have already done that. Then subtract the $2K incentive. Add in about $300 for MACO (advertising fees). That is what I would offer. I wouldn't even bother mentioning invoice to the salesperson, unless you think it will help later. This will keep you focused on the price you are paying, instead of some amorphous number the dealer comes up with.

Good luck!
kyfdx

po23ui3k · February 2004

Hi

I'm interested in purchasing (financing) a '03/'04 BMW 330i w/ performance package in the Dallas Fort Worth area. I'm actually looking to order one with the following options:

- Performance package
- Cold weather package
- Xenon headlights
- Nav system
- Moonroof

And here are my questions:

1) Is it likely that dealers/salespeople will be willing to negotiate on a car that is being ordered (as opposed to one that's already on their lot)?
2) Has anyone been able to get some sort of a price break on a car with performance package (NOT necessarily with the same set of options as I've indicated above)? Esp. in the DFW area?
3) Can someone tell me what kind of price range I should start negotiating at (assuming they won't laugh at me!)

Thanks in advance!

hehe1 · February 2004

Just nailed down the purchase price with my dealer hour ago.

04, 325i,

Auto,
Moonroof
heated seat
Titanium silver with black leatherette

I paid $29,700 for it.

Do you guys think it's a good deal?

Thanks so much!!

pmarcello1 · February 2004

Am planning to purchase 330cic soon. Great forum, lots of info which is helpful.

Questions:
1) Are there any incentives for 2004 3 series?
In the above "Is this a good deal? by bxs98" dealer offering 3 series at $500 over invoice. Hard to believe.

2) As asked by "Dallas Fort Worth area Performance Package by po23ui3k" how well can you negotiate on a car that is ordered?

3) Has anyone negotiated well in Massachusetts? Other forums suggest Northeast is harder to get good deal.

To "My first BMW by hehe1" that price is $225 over invoice. From all that I've seen that's a great deal. If that was in Boston I would take it in a heartbeat.

kyfdx.. any thoughts?
Thanks all!

kyfdx · February 2004

I've only tried to negotiate on 325i sedans.. I'm not familiar with convertibles, except to look at used ones. My guess is that you would be able to negotiate a much stronger deal on an in-stock one right now in February, than ordering one.

The only incentives I know of are low money factors on leases.. .0010, I think on 330's.

I think picking the lowest price paid in this forum, and hoping to get that price, will leave you disappointed. But, it might give you a good starting point. Traditionally, the convertibles have brought closer to MSRP than the sedans or coupes.

regards,
kyfdx

grm0331 · February 2004

Guys,

I was offered a 2002 325 xi 5 speed with Premium, leather, harden karden and cold package for $28,000. The car has 20,000. It appears that the car was a dealer buyback, in other words, I guess it was a lemon. Salesman claims that there was an acceleration problem, but because its been certified, it should no longer be an issue. If it is, I'm still covered under the same lemon laws as the previous owner.

Doesn't sound like something I want to take a chance on though, but the car has everything I want in it. I'll probably pass on it, but what should the cost be for a car equipped as this? Is the TMV that Edmunds provides a valid number.

Should I use that as a guideline?

crashtestdingo · February 2004

You should post your question in the Town Hall > Smart Shopper (View All Discussions) > Real-World Trade-In Values discussion as well.

By the way, I think it's the manufacturer, not the dealer, that buys back lemons.

wjc12345 · February 2004

Just looking for some last minute re-assurance here people!! This board is great by the way...

About to purchase a new 2004 325i...
--Steptronic
--Sports Package
--Metallic Paint
$29,950

That's it....no leather, sunroof, etc....
The dealer assured me the price includes destination charge. This cost is from BMW of Manhattan...I've visited (and spoken over the phone) to 3 or 4 other dealers in the NY metro area - they all can't match this price....

Any feedback is appreciated - thanks!

john1 · February 2004

Looking for a deal on a 2004 330xi with:
Manual transmission
premium and sports package
xenon headlights
heated seats
Best offer:
MSRP 43,820 Sell for 42,396(Seattle)
MSRP 43,345 Sell for 41,945(Portland)
Looks like I will need to order. It seems funny that so few manuals exist on lots. Anyone find a better deal? Why is MSRP different in different areas for same vehicle? Has anybody used Costco or other buyer programs and gotten a better deal?

kyfdx · February 2004

wjc...isn't that about $2000 off MSRP? Seems like a good deal for a lightly optioned car. Hope you plan on keeping it for awhile. Most automatic buyers will want options. If you plan on keeping it for 5 years or more, probably won't matter.

john1: There aren't different MSRPs. Did you pick a color yet? Maybe one of the dealers is figuring in metallic paint, and the other one isn't.

regards,
kyfdx

diestelmeier · February 2004

Hey all -- I wasn't kidding when I said in post #179 in the "Present and Future Styling Trends" thread that the utterly bleeping awful and cheapened '04 5 Series would compel me to finally get off the sidelines and buy an '04 3 Series, before it gets redesigned, before it gets I-Drive, and before (I supect) it gets disconnected from the "Ultimate Driving Machine" theme.

I got off the sidelines today. Ordered a 330 coupe, Orient Blue with natural brown leather, 6 speed!!!, sport package, premium package, heated seats, and the 18-inch wheels for MSRP minus $1,750. I'm in Milwaukee, and did the deal at International Autos. Am pleased to say that I was in and out in about 75 minutes, and suffered absolutely no dealer BS whatsoever. It was honest, straightforward negotiating, and I respect them for that.

The other dealer in town pretty much said they'd take $800 or $1,000 off MSRP, and if I wanted to do better than that then I'd be wasting their time and mine. Glad I didn't try to do the deal with them.

Won't take delivery until the end of May. Suddenly I find myself totally unprepared for the next phase of the game. Once you've ordered a car, how do you possibly wait patiently for it to be delivered??? Mark

tonpogi · February 2004

I'm considering getting one around Hampton Roads Area, Virginia Beach.

2004 325Ci
5 speed Auto
Sand Leatherette
Xenon lights
Heated seats
Sports Package?

I would like to get a Sports Package but not necessarily the Sports suspension which is stiffer i'm guessing (I haven't test drive yet). I was also told that Sports Sus is standard on coupes, is this correct? How noticeable is the SS vs. Non-SS? Also, I like the look of performance tires but weary of its shorter life and again stiffer feel from what I've been reading, please correct me if im wrong.

Is it also possible to get Heated seats without getting Leather?

Can I get the 12 way power seat without getting the Premium of Sports package?

Any help would be appreciated!

catch90 · February 2004

Hi,

I'm interested in purchasing a 2004 bmw 325i
with the ffg options: step, on-board nav + on-board computer, silver gray metallic.

invoice price on edmunds.com says 29,980... would + 500 = good price to pay ? + sales tax + fees What are these FEES for ? Registration ? and what else? And how much fees are we talking about?....

how do i know if what they're giving me is brand new vs a test car ? < 20mil on odometer ?

ANY HELP WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED...can't wait to buy my first bmw!

gordonwd · February 2004

Nav but no moonroof? Anyway, these fees are dealer-dependent and might be negotiable. They should be included on the purchase agreement that you sign, so don't sign until they are explained.

When I ordered my 325i last week there was a $130 "documentation fee" included. What really ticked me off one time, though, was the Audi dealer that included a "dealer association advertising fee". I argued that one off, but it wasn't easy.

dosei · February 2004

Me and my wife are in the market for a 3series, can anyone recommend a dealer they received good pricing from in either SF area or LA area? If you have a name of a honest salesperson, it'd be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Sylvia · February 2004

You can mention a dealership name, but not names of individual salespeople. Thanks!

gordonwd · February 2004

>If you have a name of a honest salesperson

Isn't that what they call an oxymoron? Sort of like "military intelligence" or "jumbo shrimp"?

pat · February 2004

I don't really think that kind of comment is necessary ... there are a number of very helpful salesfolks participating in our conversations as members of our community just as we all are.

If we just stick to the topic, everything will be just fine.

:-)

gordonwd · February 2004

Sorry, I should have included the smiley emoticon :-). I just couldn't resist the opening. The salesperson who just sold me my 325i at Erhard BMW in Bloomfield Hills, MI was a really nice, straightforward, and totally honest guy and made the sales process very enjoyable.

pat · February 2004

Ahh! Glad to hear that, and congrats! :-)

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