2013 and earlier - BMW 5 Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

rainmaker2 · October 2005

I live in California and am looking to buy an 06 530i. Some of the dealers through the internet are offering me a price of $1000 over invoice. Is this a good deal, or should I be able to negotiate them even lower? Will BMW dealers not even bother with me if I walk in and suggest something like $500 over invoice?

I am brand new here, and this is my first post. I've read over the last 30 or 40 pages here, and it seems like these kind of "X over invoice" posts don't get much response. Not sure why. But if someone out there knows and would care to help ktran, low_ball, and myself out, I'd appreciate it.

kyfdx · October 2005

1) The BMWFS acquisition fee is the amount of your payment, rounded up to the next $50 increment... (If payment is $619, then the security deposit would be $650)

2) The acquisition fee is taxed in nearly every state... If you pay it upfront, it is taxed upfront... If you roll it into the lease, you pay taxes on the monthly payment..

3) With BMWFS, you should pay the security deposit to get the lower money factor... $650 upfront saves you about $10/mo. on the payment.. then you get the $650 back at the end of the lease.. It isn't required, but you pay more in finance charges without it..

4) Technically, the security deposit is for the same reason you make a deposit when you lease an apartment.. It is security for the lessor, that you won't take off without making required payments... Either way, it is a better deal for you to make the deposit, and get the lower money factor..

regards,
kyfdx
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kyfdx · October 2005

$1000 over invoice sounds like a pretty great price on a 530i...

But, be aware, that what you think is invoice, and their number may not agree... And, watch out for extra fees on top of that...

Deals seem to change once you get to the dealership and start adding it all up...

California is a big market with a lot of competition, but I think getting a $500 over invoice deal on a car that doesn't have any incentives attached will be difficult.

regards,
kyfdx
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hpowders · October 2005

You are right. When I made my deal for a 545i last July, It was for $1500 over invoice.
By the time all the hidden fees were included, it was closer to $2000 over.
But with an interest rate of only 2.4% and a monthly lease payment of $673, the deal was too good to pass up. Otherwise, I would have walked away.

low_ball_88 · October 2005

If the hidden fees in the pricing is a norm for these dealers, I would suggest getting an out the door price when asking for an internet quote. Then you would tell them that you will be walking in with a cashier's check for that exact amount. I think this is fair and straight up unless the dealers are always looking to scam more $$ from you.

ktran · October 2005

Hi rainmaker2,
Would it be possible to get the names of the dealers that have offered you the internet price of $1000 over invoice?
Thank you in advance for your help.

rainmaker2 · October 2005

Valencia and Santa Monica BMW, although this was about a month ago. Not sure if the offer still stands, but I'm guessing it would.

When i do decide to purchase, I'll have to ask about all the other additional fees. I'm guessing that it will be more than $1000 over.

shl1 · October 2005

$1000 over is pretty much the best price i was able to get. mostly in person and bit on the phone.

ownerof525xi · October 2005

As you all could see they have about 9% markup on invoice price. If you could get them down to 4-5%, you got the best deal.

gap4jason · October 2005

Ok - kyfdx

I tried to follow your advise......I've made a few revisions on the car....
2006 525i
Auto, Premium Pkg, Xenon, NAV

MSRP $49,070
Selling Price $46,435
Bank Fee $625
Total Cap Cost $47,060

Cap Reduction $236
Cap tax $20.36
License Fee $372
1st Payment $617
Security deposit $650
Doc Fee $45
Drive off $1,940

Residual Factor 62%
Residual Value $30,423
Money Factor 0.00155

Is that good?

let me know......I am sooooooo ready!!!!

jason

kyfdx · October 2005

This includes tax, right?

It looks great.... I see no reason not to go for it...

regards,
kyfdx

gap4jason · October 2005

kyfdx -

yes - tax is included - the $617 is the monthly with tax!

Looking at the deal, it's $1485 over invoice.

jason

bimmerdude · October 2005

Hi kyfdx,
I just got a quote for a new 06 530i, Steptronic, Premium Package, Premium Sound and Navigation. Out of the door for $54640.00, MF 0.0018. (7.5%, tax?, North Califonia)
1. Is this a good deal? What is the monthly payment 36/12, 0 down?
2. Should I ask them to break down the numbers?
3. I want to lease, was it done at the dealer or I should contact BMWFS myslef?

Thanks very much!

Bimmerdude

kyfdx · October 2005

I see you posted in Lease Questions... (which is good)

Go back over there, and add the MSRP of the car to your information...

regards,
kyfdx
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low_ball_88 · October 2005

Let see if that is a good deal, assuming that $1000-$1500 is considered a good deal according to the folks here.

Invoice/MSRP Price - 42770/46800
Destination - 695/695
Steptronic - 1210/1275
Premium Pkg - 1710/1800
Premum Sound - 1640/1800
Navigation - 1640/1800
Subtotal - 49665/54170

54640 - 3800 (7.5% sales tax) - 450 (Registration) = 50390

That would be a heck of a deal since it is only approx. $725 over invoice. What dealer did you get the quote from and is it through the internet sales?

bimmerdude · October 2005

No, the seeling price is 50,830.

gap4jason · October 2005

kyfdx....

the offer still stands.....however, the car that I'm looking for is not available, unless we order and wait 7-8 weeks. Remember, we're looking for a 525i, auto, premium, xenon and NAV....MSRP $49070, Selling Price $46435, MF .00155, Drive off $1940 (incl CA Lic Fee, 1st payment, Cap Red, Cap Tax, Sec Deposit....Res Factor is 62%, and Res Value $30423.....36 mos/12kmiles, monthly is $617 incl. tax.

Anyway, what the dealer had was a 530i, Auto, Premium (no NAV). For almost the same deal, I can drive off with the car for $632 incl tax. MSRP $50570....I didn't get to ask what the selling price is........but the drive off should be similar and I was told the MF is more aggressive on the 530i?

If we don't go with this 530i, and if we want the features we're looking for, we will need to change color preference in order to get something without having to wait for weeks.

Any thoughts?

jason

Cap Reduction $236
Cap tax $20.36
License Fee $372
1st Payment $617
Security deposit $650
Doc Fee $45

kyfdx · October 2005

The money factor for the 530i is only slightly better than the 525i.. If it were me, and time was of the essence (or even if it weren't), I'd take the 530i without NAV over the 525i with it... The price seems as good a deal as you had with the other one...

The BMW NAV isn't that great, anyway... Not nearly as good as Acura or Lexus..

regards,
kyfdx
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low_ball_88 · October 2005

Still a decent deal at roughly $1200 over invoice.

Do you mind telling me who the dealer is?

gap4jason · October 2005

kyfdx -

just talked to the dealer......the drive off has been increased to $2300, MF .155, Residual is 62%, Selling Price is $48292.

jason

kyfdx · October 2005

I'm starting to lose my bearings.. What state do you live in, and what is the sales tax rate?

regards,
kyfdx

gap4jason · October 2005

Calif....sales tax in Ventura county is 7.25%
The $ 48292 is on 530i Auto, Premium, Rear shade (no NAV).....MSRP $50845

jason

kyfdx · October 2005

Yeah.. it looks okay... The money factor seems to be bumped up to .00155 from .0014.. this is typical for a lease that doesn't have a security deposit... But, your lease numbers show one..

So, if you could get the same deal with .0014 as the money factor... it would knock about $12/mo. off that payment... With the money upfront that they want, I'd be looking for about $620-$625 per month on that lease... It wouldn't hurt to push them a little bit, and see what happens....

regards,
kyfdx

rainmaker2 · October 2005

Hi all,

Am trying to negotiate the purchase of a 2006 530. I've been doing some searching on these forums in the old posts, and there's a few things I don't understand. I was able to find the invoice price here on Edmunds with the options I want. But then I'm reading some posts with something called "True invoice price" and that you should pay Consumer reports or something to get the actual number. What is this "true" invoice price? Does that mean that the actual invoice is less than even the invoice price that Edmunds lists?

And I've surmised that MACO is a standard fee that cannot be negotiated. So in an "X over invoice" price, is the final number I arrive at "Edmunds invoice + negotiated markup + destination (695) + MACO (415)"? Because to me then, that's not really such a good deal. If the negotiated markup is $1000, I'm really paying $1415 with the MACO. Is it possible to negotiate down to a markup of $600, so the actual payment is only $1000 over?

The "Predelivery inspection fee" seems to be bogus. I won't pay for that. But what is a "documentation fee" of $50? Is this just extra money I'm throwing away. I hate to be petty about $50 considering it's a $50000 car, but hey, $50 is $50!

kyfdx · October 2005

MACO is a legitimate fee on the dealer's invoice...

I like to know the invoice amount, and even base my offers on it... but, I never bring it up during negotiations... Anytime you base your offer on "invoice + $XXX", then the invoice is subject to interpretation...

If you are looking at a car that has an MSRP of $50K, and an invoice of $46K, and you want to pay $47K, then that is what you should offer.. "I'll give you $47K for that XYZmobile, including all fees, with the only additions being taxes and state title/licensing fees"

Sound simple, right? Nah... you'll still have to watch for every other fee under the sun in the finance office.. But, just keep saying, "I didn't agree to that".

Can you get $1000 over invoice on a $50K car? Beats me.. you might.. but, it will probably take a little more than that..

The thing to remember? It doesn't matter how they write it all down, as long as the total amount is what you agreed to, with only taxes and license extra... So, if it is $46K plus $1K of bogus fees, it really doesn't matter, as long as the total is the $47K you agreed to..

But, I agree... PDI fees, document fees, etc... are pretty bogus... I usually don't complain if the extra stuff comes to $50 or less, though..

regards,
kyfdx
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rainmaker2 · October 2005

Thanks kyfdx. I think that's the best strategy, to walk into the dealership after having computed a total price, and say "I'm willing to pay $X for this car to take it out the door". And if the numbers don't work for them, then I walk. I think it's a much easier way to deal than to have all sorts of complicated invoice numbers, options, fees, tax, license, destination, etc. Let them do the math, but I ultimately decide how much I want to pay. Guess my dad's way of doing it all these years now really does make sense!

But could you perhaps clue me into what is the "true" invoice price? Is this basically "Invoice - Dealer holdback"? Anyone know what the holdback is for a BMW? Is it only 2%? Even so, that's another $1000 of pure profit. Is holdback used to pay for keeping the car on the lot too? So if I order it from the factory, then they get to keep the entire $1000, right? Perhaps I could use this as leverage to negotiate an even better deal.

kyfdx · October 2005

There is no holdback on BMWs...

I'm sure they have other programs that rebate money to the dealer, but they aren't as clear and consistent as the holdback program on other makes..

Go with the invoice prices you can find on-line (Edmunds?..

)... Be sure to add the destination charge in... The on-line invoice prices include everything but MACO...

Try to get the best deal that you can, but be realistic... Most (read 95 out of 100) BMW dealers aren't going to make you a skinny $500 over invoice deal this early in the model year on a $50K car...

regards,
kyfdx
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cpanag · October 2005

Hi all,
Opened-ended question, but I am new to the BMW market and looking at 02 or 03 540s. I know this is a price discussion, but first question is good call? I would look for a certified pre-owned. My preference is sport package, cold weather package, 17 or 18 in rims (02 or 03), black/black.
Second question is indeed price. 02s with low to mid mileage are going for high 30s certified. 03s are in the low to mid 40s. Is this appropriate? Seems a bit high to me. Do you think there is a lot of wiggle room in this shopping arena?
Thanks in advance. Any and all feedback is helpful, this site looks like a great forum for discussion.

looking4g · October 2005

Hi all,

thanks for the wealth of information folks here provided! I just closed a deal on a 2006 530i auto, premium, comfort, and sunshade. the cost to me is invoice + maco + doc fee + 1000 + ttl.

i emailed my offer of invoice + 1000 to several dealers, the first one responded gets my business. something interesting to share, the maco fee is standard on every bmw, except ED vehicles. there is a $180 training service fee included in invoice published by kbb and edmunds.

once the baby is in production, i should be able to track it! and it will have a chrome center grill which is different from most E60s produced prior to september

low_ball_88 · October 2005

what do the E60s have as far as the center grill produced prior to september?

where did you buy it? and did you e-mail them all at the same time and at least one dealer said okay? so you paid around $1500 over invoice?

i kinda like the host's suggestion of giving them a set price out the door.

looking4g · October 2005

if you go to any bmw center now, you will see most of E60 with black center grill.
i emailed 3 dealers in the area (SoCal), pacific bmw at glendale took the deal, one asked 200 more, and no reply from the 3rd. since the maco fee of 425 is dealer's cost, I am having it for invoice + 1000. there is little to none effort from me to get this deal, so it's very likely one can get better deal with some negotiation skill,

btw, on kbb, the invoice for 530i w/o any options/packages is 42770, on the order sheet, dealer broke the price down to 42590 + 180 (training service fee), so i don't consider this fee as hiden cost.

kyfdx · October 2005

cpanag

You might get more of a response here:

BMW 5-Series Sedans

A lot of current owners hang out there...

regards,
kyfdx
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rainmaker2 · October 2005

Please forgive my ignorance... but what is "E60"? I have seen multiple references to this and have no idea what it means. Is it a model number?

Invoice + 1000 seems to be the best that can be found here in southern california. Congrats on the purchase! I'm still mulling over options.

kyfdx · October 2005

E60 is BMW's internal model designation for the current 5-series, which came out in '04... The previous model's designation was E39 ('97-'03).

Invoice + $1000 would be a very good deal..

regards,
kyfdx
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laxbay · October 2005

Just got a quote for the following and was hoping to get a response on if it is a good deal:

2006 BMW 525i
Titanium Gray/Black
Cold weather package
Premium Package
Automatic
Xenon headlights

MSRP $47,320
Selling price $45,320 including destination charge and all other fees
$12,000 for our 2000 323i as trade

Also, the car has 140 miles on it as it was used a few times as demo. Just wanted to know if we should be getting more off of the car because of the light use. This is in the Philadelphia area.

I think I may be able to get a slightly better deal and wanted some opinions. Thanks!

bimmerdude · October 2005

Hi kydfx,
I just want to thank you and all the guys here for helping others, I have learned so much here from all of you, especially kydfx and Car_man. Thanks again!

I have 3 questions still: :confuse:
First, I am asked to pay security deposit for the new 2006 530i MF=0.0016 (base MF =0.0014), is that right? Should I insist not paying unless it grants the base MF? Since the security deposit is refundable, why the dealer still asking for it? I would love to pay the security deposit if I can get the base MF, which is 0.0014. I believe that the dealer rather give me MF 0.0016 so that they can make more money. It seems there is no reason to take the deposit and giving base MF? I am a bit confused.

2nd question, since I have to order the car, what is the typical milage on the brand new car? how can I make sure the new car I got is no more than 10 miles on the car? Since I don't want to wait 8 weeks and get 50 miles on my brand new $50K+ car alreay?

3rd question, I need to make a $1000 deposit to get the order going. Can I still back off from the deal later and get the $1000 back, if something happened? I am not planning to do that, it is more wanting to know how to protect myself.

Sorry to hit you with so many questions.

Thanks very much!

rbknox · October 2005

I am considering two very similar vehicles and would like some opinions. Both are 525i w/ sport & premium packages, black with brown interior and one owner cars. The 2002 has 18,000 miles and the 2003 has 24,000 miles. The 02 is from a BMW dealer, the 03 from a luxury car reseller. The dealer is prepping the 02 for a CPO and is asking $31k. The reseller is asking $32k and says the CPO is more of an opportunity for a dealer mark-up than a good value given the quality of the vehicle. Any thoughts?

cpanag · October 2005

rbknox - I am in a similar scenario. Looking at 03 540i Black/ Black lthr. Sport, Cold Weather, Premium Sound. Nice to haves are Navi and/or Electric Shades.

Dealer CPO retail for average mileage (15k per year) is around 41 - 44k.

Luxury reseller will list the same car for around 36 - 37k.

So, to folks that a lot more experience buying bimmers - would you take the risk on the luxury reseller to save at least 5k?

ponytrekker · November 2005

If you have 4 or more payments remaining you can buy additional miles at 16 cents a mile plus tax.

cmybimmergo · November 2005

There is always wiggle room in franchise dealer prices. I bought my 02 530i sport 5 spd from a non-franchise dealer who sells only used BMWs. His prices are lower than the franchise dealers, but they are firm. I would venture to guess that by the time you are out the door, the franchise dealer's price looks like what I paid.

If you are going to buy from the reseller, make sure you trust him. (The one who sold me my car has an excellent reputation, and is recognized by BMW for his outstanding record. He also gives a money back guarantee, so you have nothing to lose if you buy from him.) Before you buy, have the car inspected or get a guarantee that it will pass. And spring for an extended warranty--but make sure the company is solvent.

cpanag · November 2005

Appreciate the feedback cmybimmergo, thanks. I have narrowed my search to an 03 540 Sprt, CW, Premium, Blk/Blk leather. For 30-45k mileage on that specific type I've seen 33k - 41k at a reseller, as high as 45-46k at a franchise dealer. Good to know your thoughts on the franchise mark-up - certainly in line with my thoughts as well even with CPO. I am going back out today to see one and if it feels right I wil start negotiation at reseller price levels so to speak. Thanks again

needaride1 · November 2005

what's a good offer for a 2004 530i w/10,000 miles the dealers asking for 45k. which I believe is way overpriced..

bdr127 · November 2005

What does the car have for options? With a few good options and Certified, $45k might be a decent price....

cmybimmergo · November 2005

For reference, "my" (non-franchise) dealer has several for ~$42k, with mileage varying from 17k up to 30k. That doesn't include a warranty, although he certifies his cars with a 250 point inspection. I don't believe $45k is quite as far fetched as you think it is.

needaride1 · November 2005

not sure on options but..... I came across a 2004 530i with 4000 miles... certified for 41900 this thing is clean...... that's why I was thinking he 45k was high...

needaride1 · November 2005

I have a 325i lease coming to end... BMW said my liabalities were around 6500.... from my last post I found this 2004 530i for 41900.... What are my options? they would give me 15500 for a trade. Can this work????

kyfdx · November 2005

It depends... what is the residual on your current lease?

bdr127 · November 2005

not sure on options but..... I came across a 2004 530i with 4000 miles... certified for 41900 this thing is clean...... that's why I was thinking he 45k was high...

Options are a huge variable here, which could make the difference between $42k and $45k.... Nav, automatic, premium pkg, cold weather pkg, sport pkg, comfort seats, xenons, etc? Makes a big difference.

needaride1 · November 2005

19437.00 is the residual...

needaride1 · November 2005

it standard no sports pkg... on the 2004 530i. the car for 45k had all the bells...

2013 and earlier - BMW 5 Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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