Pontiac G6

gonogo · November 2005

I remember when all cars in the US were RWD, then comes a better idea FWD. Now history repeats its self, everyone is scrambling to come out with RWD, its comical. I actually like FWD, in the snow its as good as 4 WD.

exalteddragon1 · November 2005

although i too prefer RWD, it is about quality, features and value.

The japanese alwayse built FWD cars, the camcords are fwd and they sell at about 400K per year each. This is very very important.

GM spend alot of money during the 80's i think to convert there entire platforms to FWD. Now they are gonna spend more to convert back. The truth is you need FWD, RWD and AWD in your portfolio so you can better deal with changes in the market.

The G6 has FWD, and its just fine to me. It is a nice car inside and out, and if it has to be fwd then fine. if a GTO or a Camaro were FWD it would be a different story, there cars are in a totally different market. I do not think too many people cross shop G6's and GTO's. or even mustangs and g6's for that matter.

I was in a mall a short time ago and saw a G6 coupe inside, standing next to a contest where it was one of the prizes. I have to tell you this car is very attractive, and it looks better than in the pictures. I am still not thrilled with the rear lamps, but they are LED and are starting to grow on me.

The thing that really botherred me about this beautiful white GTP with 18 inch wheels and tires and auto trans with two tone interrior, was the backseat.

can any owners tell us if its confortable over there? I sat in the back of an accord and it was allright. The only thing that botherred me about the GTP was the lack of an armrest for rear seat passengers. There was a grove dug into the middle with cupholders (trim pieces on top of the leather). I think its nice because you have a place to put your pens and what not. An armrest would be better, with the cupholders on the end of it.

Please don't tell me its because the rear seat flips down. I just don't buy that, because they could still put an armrest in there like im sure they do for SAAB and others. I want to go test drive one but can't find the time lately (school work is kicking my A***).

nice car overall and a very nice interrior. nav and xenon, anyone?

afairman · November 2005

I also own a 05 G6 GT and Wednesday, Nov 16, 2005, the steering started "acting up" and by Thursday it was much worse. I almost had an accident when it locked up. Friday it went to the dealer and they said that GM told them that they've had several complaints and they replaced the steering motor and mount. It is now worse. It goes back tomorrow. We were supposed to go out of town on Tuesday but I'm now scared to drive it. What did your dealer fix? PLEASE HELP!

m1miata · November 2005

As a snowmobile, FWD is better. That is where is ends. FWD is simply cheaper for car manufacturing. That is why they are reluctant to change. Balanced, great road cars are RWD, and have an all over better feel to them. And no torque steer. If I was even stuck in the dreaded snow country, I guess I would have to consider the Subaru line of cars. The Legacy is not bad looking. In a large car, like the DTS, it may not matter all that much, as it is more of a freeway cruiser.

Loren

1487 · November 2005

Price isnt the only reason most cars swithed to FWD. FWD is better in slippery weather and is more space efficient. You can forget about using the middle rear seat for anything but a small child in a RWD car. You also get smaller trunks in RWD cars.

Torque steer is barely an issue on most GM FWD cars. It may be a problem on some Acuras and Nissans, but not GM products. GM had V8s in FWD cadillacs for years with barely a hint of torque steer.

blkhemi · November 2005

FWD actually cost more nowaday's to produce because of all the latest technology that goes along with it. Take for example the Acura RL:

Its platform and drivetrain started off as front drive car. Then they added SH-AWD, stability control, traction control, antiskid system, 4-channel ABS and hence the $50,000 price tag.

Take for example the Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger:

All the same hardware as the RL plus some. And because it is RWD(AWD is an option), they even can squeeze a HEMI under the hood. All for around $33k. Bigger car and more amenities over the Acura.

I do admit my G6 GTP 6-speed is one of the most balanced and easiest to drive FWD cars I've ever driven. The European and the Japanese models are not so good in FWD. The Maxima, TL, Mazda 6, SAAB 9-3/9-5, Volvo S-40/60/80, are all plagued by torque and bump steer, which is extremely annoying in spirted accelleration, with these cars supposedly to be sports sedans.

There are a few exceptions: The Accord is extremely balanced, the new Sonata, and even the Audi's without Quattro are just fine.

gonogo · November 2005

I wish someone would build a FWD pickup truck, but that would kill the 4 wheel drive market.

tjgov99 · November 2005

Have you received an answer about your steering issues? I have read the complaints about the steering problems, and it scares me. I am currently looking at the 06 G6 GT. General question to the audience: Does the 06 have the same issue? Also, does the 06 also have the noise issue with the panoramic sunroof? :confuse:

m1miata · November 2005

VW did, and I think GM does have a FWD car in Mexico.
As a light duty, just for fun car, it is OK I guess. Would
make a cool looking truck with the HHR front on it, but GM
has no imagination.

Loren

gonogo · November 2005

My neighbor had a VW FWD pickup, diesel, I think it was unibody had no separate bed. I think it was in the late 70 ties or early 80 ties.

poncho167 · November 2005

I have read quite a few pages regarding the new G6, but I haven't found anything regarding why the base model sedan doesn't come with a manual transmission with the 2.4 liter 4 cylinder engine. I would not want a car this size without a 5 or 6 speed stick on the floor.

1487 · November 2005

my guess is that it's not offered because so few people want manuals these days. Accord and Camry 4 bangers have sticks, but how often do see manual tranny equipped models on the road? Very rarely. Besides, the G6 4 cylinder gets good mileage with the auto so the advantage of a manual would be small.

calidave · November 2005

true, but a manual but be fun to drive

maybe GM doesn't expect the "fun to drive" set to be looking at the G6...because they are looking at a souped up Civic, instead

;-)

exalteddragon1 · November 2005

These are two different cars, a civic is alot less car than the G6, with less room and a smaller engine. The G6 is a more grown up fun to drive car.

Generally these two are in very different segments, those that want fun to drive are looking at more than just civic, if thats what they can afford, they are also looking at the Cobalt.

Nedless to say, the G6 looks to be a very fun to drive car, its just in a higher market. I would suggest for gm to do what they did to there big suv's to the pontiac line (as well as the buick), take all those iron ohv v6's and keep the design, just make it out of aluminum. That would save what, 300 lbs? It would make the G6 accelerate faster and get better fuel economy, so they would not have to resort to fuel economy destroying gearing.

I hope they have enough budget after the heath care deal with the UAW to do that.

bfyerxa · November 2005

I've being eyeing the G6 since it came out. I've been in Hondas for 15 years now and generally satisfied. However, I've always been hoping a NA manufacturer would put something out that I'd like. The G6 has looked promising, and I had one as a rental this week (base V6 with alloys, driver's package, etc.). Overall I liked the thing enough to start thinking more seriously about one, and I tracked the gas mileage after I gassed it up before turning it in and it was really good (29mpg imperial (CDN) on a brand new car (50km when I got it) in winter conditions, mixed driving). The only thing that bugged me was the steering feel - elastic feeling and not very good on center. SO then I start reading these posts and find out some people are having steering failures. How prevalant is this issue? Sure, it may be isolated but a fundamentally dangerous issue like this is not acceptable even at a "low risk".

sunbyrne · November 2005

I'd say there have been enough reports of the steering locking up that *I* wouldn't buy the car. Of course, the steering feel in general (I like the term "elastic" you used) is enough to keep me away anyway.

HOWEVER, having said that, my understanding is that the GTP version of this car has a different steering system. I haven't heard about lockups in the GTP, so I'd consider the GTP. Being fast and having stability control are also critical--I'd just like to drive one, but none of the dealers around here seem to have a GTP with a stick, which makes no sense to me (but perhaps tells me something about the average Pontiac customer).

gonogo · November 2005

I have a 04 Malibu with EPS with 14 K on it and I will never go back to hydraulic again. The first time I drove it I didnt even think about it having EPS until I got out of the car. I wont miss the belt, whining pump and oil leaks. When I drive my truck I think there is something wrong with it, the steering feels so heavy.

bfyerxa · November 2005

I really disliked the EPS on the G6. Like I said, felt "elastic", artificially heavy at speed on center yet artificially light when going around sharper turns. I thought the various magazine reviews were just nit picky whining, but I now agree with them. For comparison my wife's Mazda5 (electrohydraulic) steering feel blows the G6's away. I realize some of this is subjective but I really think they need to do a better job on the G6's steering. Given that, it would not be enough to keep me out of a G6 on its own, but the reports of absolute failure would.

sunbyrne · November 2005

So, what you're essentially saying is that GM can't do a decent non-EPS steering system, so people should just put up with the EPS steering, even if they don't like its feel and it has serious safety issues? Uhh, OK.

Sounds like more of an argument to buy a non-GM car than anything else.

62vetteefp · November 2005

So, what you're essentially saying is that GM can't do a decent non-EPS steering system, so people should just put up with the EPS steering, even if they don't like its feel and it has serious safety issues? Uhh, OK.

Sounds like more of an argument to buy a non-GM car than anything else.

No he said he liked the EPS steering. He also said he disliked what he had in his truck which had heavier steering.

afairman · November 2005

No. My car is still with the dealer. They have had it since last Monday. One week today. They said that they are waiting on the GM engineers to tell them what else to try. Does not sound too promising to me. I loved the car and I actually love the panoramic sunroof ( no sound on mine) but this is terrifying and I would not buy the car again.

blkhemi · November 2005

Since this car is too dangerous to drive on the road and since you love it and since they can't seem to get it fixed, try talking them into upgrading you into a GTP. It DOES NOT have the EPS, and it offers more of a traditional steering feel appropiate for a legit sports sedan. The EPS is a good steering system in that it is more compact and thus weighs less on the engine, but after hearing numerous complaints of total failure, I'd think twice. The G6 isn't the only one. The Saturn Vue and the Chevy Equinox are experiencing similar problems( they have the same steering system).

I don't think that you'll have a problem in doing this. You may have to pay the difference, but the equippment that you get and the fact that you are assured that you want have steering lock-up is worth it, IMO.

gonogo · November 2005

Check around, just about every one is going EPS. VW and others, hydraulic is going out, old technology.
Pump, bracket, hoses, hydraulic rack all cost money.

62vetteefp · November 2005

Check around, just about every one is going EPS. VW and others, hydraulic is going out, old technology.
Pump, bracket, hoses, hydraulic rack all cost money.

Actually EPS costs more $$ about 5 years ago. It was put on some GM cars for the gas savings. It runs off battery power and does not take power directly from the engine. Today I would imagine costs has gone down though.

blkhemi · November 2005

and that's why Merc and Bimmers offer superior steering and braking. Merc system is a step behind the Bimmer in that it's brake system has a wooden feel, but it's still great and the steering on my wifes S65 AMG is marvelous. It's electo-hydraulic unit that gives both good road communication and improves fuel economy because of it's ultra compact rack and steering unit. I know a $165,000 luxo sedan is a far cry from a $22,000 G6 GT, but hey if lives are at stake, there should be no cost to great.

GM and Pontiac is testing this in the new for '08 GTO(all-American baby) and the soon to be produced Buick convertible hard-top. So the General is catching up. The new GMT 900 SUV's and pick-ups were supposed to get it but the upper management scrapped the plan to rush out the trucks. I just wish they'd do more R&D on their products before they release them. There would be less quality problems, thus less warranty claims and more potential customers not let down by GM's as of late reputation. I for one believe in GM. These are the people who invented the electric starter,power brakes(Citroen company used it's technology tho), and so on yet they can't build a safe steering system. Come on Rick Wagner, the G6 is otherwise a fantastic ride. So why let something so minute destroy it's good traits?

m1miata · November 2005

Well to each his own. I for one can do without electric assist steering. In some cases, even the expensive Euro cars have not gotten great reviews on their electric assist steering. If ya like it go for it. I do not trust it, and don't see why good old fashion steering systems, with good feel to them, need be replaced. I have a new car with good old fashion steering. If I find a model which I want of car which has changed, I will just find a good used one.

As for the rest of the G6 car, the verdict is out for another year or so, as one must see how things go with a new model. This could be a reliable car. I may a competitive car as prices fall. If GM stays in business, with no major strikes, and a future which looks better, this may be one of the GM cars to consider--Actually the GTP which doesn't have the electric steering assist. And no sunroofs.

Good luck, Loren

blkhemi · November 2005

I agree. I own a '06 Z06 Corvette and I'd hate to be bending a corner @ 130mph(not that I'd do such a thing LOL) and the steering fails because the computer could not determine which way to turn the wheel so it locks it up.

I for one believe that if they do go to electric on all cars, then it should have hydraulic back-up like the Mercedes and BMW's. It's just taking a precautionary measure. I don't own a vehicle with full electric steer and do not plan on it.

Funny how GM can spend millions on electric steering yet can't manage to stay in the black. Oh, just figured out my own ponder.

1487 · December 2005

MT had a brief review of the GTP coupe and clocked 0-60 at 6.2secs with the manual, which they called "nothing to write home about" or something to that effect. I dont think 6.2secs is slow for a car in this class. They also said the steering was much better than the base car and the engine revved like an OHC engine. They said you wouldnt know it's OHV if someone didnt tell you. All that was said, but at the end they asked if you would buy the G6 couple over a 300hp Mustang and obviously the answer was no. Interestingly enough they didnt bother comparing it with it's true FWD competition like the Solara. Typical biased journalism in my opinion. If everyone wanted V8 muscle cars than the Solara, Eclipse, Accord Coupe and Monte Carlo would cease to exist.

62vetteefp · December 2005

Monte Carlo has a V8

bigdaddycoats · December 2005

6.2 I would think is very class competitive. Honda Accord coupe is also a competitor. Not everyone wants a rear wheel drive muscle car. I drove a GTP coupe and really liked it. I would like to get a sedan GTP in the fall when I turn my GTO in.

blkhemi · December 2005

Yep my friend, the automotive journalist can't stand it when a paticular car that is great but doesn't have the right nameplate on it. M/T is especially guilty of this having giving a Dodge Charger R/T the nudge over a GTO, which smoked it in every acceleration category yet got pinched for not being pratical enough. What do you think is going to happen when you put a 2 door car against a sedan?

I own a G6 GTP 6-speed and I feel like it doesn't get the publicity that the Mazda 6 or the Nissan Altima receives. I know those are great performing cars, but I believe the GTP is a more fun car to drive than either. My particular GTP ran a 5.22 0-60 and a 13.7 1/4 mile run(yes I do have extra on it). I don't know if anybody knows this, but those times actually beat the Mustang GT's numbers that M/T tested.

So would I buy a Mustang GT over a G6 GTP? Ah, no. I save hundreds of dollars on insurance and my GTP is such a sleeper against Mustangs and yes even GTO's believe it or not.

camike · December 2005

You can add me to your list. Took my 05 G6 GT to my local Pontiac dealer this week. Steering had locked up while parallel parking. This particular incident didn't really bother me much as there wasn't any safety issue involved. I had cut the wheels back and forth 3-4 times during the process as it was a tight parking spot. Only reason I took it to the dealer was due to the other incidents of steering lock up reported on this website. After 3 days of course the problem "couldn't be duplicated". Service Manager told me "they contacted GM regarding the steering lock-up and were told there has only been ONE such incident reported to Pontiac, and that if there were any real safety issues as reported on Edmunds it would be immediately investigated by the federal government and a recall would be issued". I will call Josh Elms as noted in the above post and see what he has to say. I was also told by the dealer that VIN numbers would be required to separate reality from fiction. Glad to see in the prior post this has been done.

Thanks to all who are trying to get to the bottom of this problem. CA Mike :confuse:

cs1992 · December 2005

Does anyone have any information other than EPA estimates about the real world mpg (23/34) figures for the G6 4 cylinder?

I am trying to decide between the G6 and the Malibu. I have driven the Malibu with the 2.2L Ecotec and the mpg numbers (from real world users) are quite impressive. I like the styling of the G6 better, but most 2.2L Malibu owners seem very satisfied with their mpg.

1487 · December 2005

I really would like to see an instrumented test of the GTp six speed at some point. Hopefulyl edmunds on C&D will test one of these cars in the near future. I am pretty sure this car will outperform the Mazda6 and be very close to the Altima V6/Accord V6. It will leave the Fusion and Camry in the dust obviously. I think the media has written this car off based on the GT model and now won't give the GTP any attention. For $25K the car is a decent performance bargain.

gonogo · December 2005

If the EPS motor gets too hot a thermo breaker will open, then close when cool.

benjaminh · December 2005

I saw in our local paper (Louisville, KY) that one dealer is advertising a base G6 for $14999. Seems like a steal for a car of this class. I really like the looks of the G6 too. Reading about the steering problems, however, makes me think that it's a bit much of a risk. I remember thinking that when I owned my 2000 Ford Focus that I might be taking people lives in my hand every time I drove the car, because of the number of recalls. I didn't like that feeling at all. Still, if they can get the bugs worked out, it cetainly seems like a great value. Too bad they don't have a manual transmission on the base model. A base VP Accord with a manual costs about $17,500.

lampoon · December 2005

I have almost 6K miles on mine without one steering hiccup.

Soo they arnt all bad.

tim66 · December 2005

I have a 06 sedan w/2.4 engine. It has 2300 miles at present and very satisfied with the mileage. Averaging 28.5 mpg with 60/40 hiway/city. I don't baby it at all...usually cruise at 62 and like to redline it a couple times a week. I did notice gas brands make a difference. 28.5 w/Amoco and 25.2 w/Citgo. I tried this test on two seperate occasions with the same results. This is my first 4cyl and am pleased with the performance. No problems so far(fingers crossed).

recii · December 2005

Since buying my G6 2005 in August the steering has locked once. But, once is to much it locked trying to make a left 30 mph curve. I had to apply full breaks and come to a sliding stop, finally after stopping I was able to turn the wheel and continue on my way. Luckily I had room to stop if not I would have looked like the Dukes of Hazard because of the dirt bank on the curve. This all occurred while my infant son was in the back seat. I've also had problems with the car stalling randomly. Also, the remote start likes to keep starting after the car has started making a nice grinding noise. I do however love the interior. So I guess having a car that you can't control and the nice shaking as the car begins to stall is worth having the lovely interior. Thank you soooooo much GM.

molson1 · December 2005

I was going to get a G6 but would like leather seating, does anyone know if I could order that in a basic v6 package or do I have to order the gt.

Thanks all.

blkhemi · December 2005

Yep, you have to get the GT, no leather on base models. In the case of the GTP, leather is a no-charge option.

ep606546 · December 2005

Wow this is very interesting. I was just teaching some one how to parrallel park when this exact thing happened. I was going to take it to the dealer but I dont want to lose my car for a couple days while they return nothing. I contacted onstar when it happened but they were unable to say anything becuase it was mechanical or something like that. But im still going to the dealer so that they get my incident onto the computer.

vita · December 2005

thank you for the info! we're actually just about to buy a g6 1sv before the end of the month, and it's good to see some real world numbers.

do you calculate at fillup, or by DIC?

also, does anyone know the bolt pattern for the g6 i4? would it be the same as the v6? i assume so because it seems all that is really changed is the engine/PCM, etc.

anyone drive the i4 in snow without traction control? i'm wondering how the stockers hold up to winter driving as well.

thanks all,

Tom

62vetteefp · December 2005

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId=107819

tim66 · December 2005

Hi Tom...I calculated at every fillup with the real numbers and yes the wheel pattern is the same. After reading the logs about steering failures,I felt uneasy driving the G6. Friday I went down to my friendly dealer and traded it for a Torrent. I know...way too much time on my hands. I will admit that it handled snow better than the FWD Torrent with traction control. I think it's the hp/torque difference.The Torrent has 17" wheels with 235 tires. Haven't had a chance to drive the Torrent on clear streets as of yet,but my mileage drooped in half. Good luck.

gonogo · December 2005

It's designed to do that, the motor has a thermo switch to protect it from burning out.

vita · December 2005

thanks for the info.

sorry to see you go to the torrent, nice SUV though.

i'm not concerned about the steering issues with the G6. i drive a Saturn Ion Red Line, and it has electric steering as well, and any issues that were present in the ION were eliminated for the RL version, and i actually LOVE the steering in the RL.

i assume most with steering issues are '05 owners, first year models, and i'm sure it'll be worked out in no time. i also have faith that the 2.4 G6 doesn't have this issue, as they likely used calibrations/settings from the cobalt/ion/malibu 4cyl. cars for release of the 2.4 in the G6. i'll make sure to post if i do have any issue though.

bigdaddycoats · December 2005

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/ly/06g6gtp.htm

cavalmi · December 2005

I had the same problem. It took four trips to the dealer but they finally fixed the problem. They said that they used teflon tape. I have had several other noises and the dealer always claims that they fix the problem (i.e., GM pays the dealer for their work) but usually a noise problem is not fixed the first time. GM service is not alone here as I have had to point out TSBs to the Honda dealer for my Odyssey as well.

vanman1 · December 2005

Wonder if there are the same improvements to the sedan for 2006. Nice review.

Pontiac G6

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