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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2403705447&category=6329
Aside from that, it completelly ruins the car, in that unlike say the AC Cobra, where one rough and ready powerplant replaced another, the rather undressed and slapped together V8 in that Benz just clashes with the aesthetics of the entire car.
Like I said, I've seen very tidy V8 installations, like a Ford 289 in a 280SL that was beautifully done. The engine was painted, chromed or satin-finished, all the lines were air-tex or carefully routed in harnesses and tubes--the workmanship befit a Benz of that era.
But as you say, what can you expect for the price--that's a fair enough argument. Nonetheless, to me all that's been done is that a $5,000 car is now a $1,000 car, the point of which is ????
Sometimes engine conversions are a good idea, and sometimes somebody had too many beers with a couple of friends and got "this idea".
Maybe $5,000 for a Benz of this vintage in good shape, but then again, this one might have had a blown engine and a transmission that spit itself out into little peices on the pavement, and it was either drop in a Chevy engine, or haul it off to the scrap yard. Thus, a $50 car was turned into a $1,000 car. On something like this, just close the hood, and as long as the engine makes power and doesn't shred itself apart after 25,000 miles, I'll give them credit for doing a good, if somewhat ugly, job. Personally, I never thought Benzes were all that good looking to begin with, so having a "ugly" engine in it doesn't seem to bother me.
Of course, if it were done right I might think differently. But not only the aesthetics would have to be done right to match the car's character, also the proper sound-proofing and vibration damping and balancing so that it didn't sound and feel like a taxi cab. You want a Benzolet, not a Chevrobenz.
If I were doing this type of conversion (and I've thought about it), I'd do it a lot better than what I think I'm seeing here.
poorly constructed motor/trans mounts
poor cooling
engine not centered or too far forward
poor driveshaft angles
teensy brakes
whether you can do better or not is not an issue.
If anything, the reason I think these conversions usually suck is that they never go far enough. I think what this car needs is an LS6 and some pearlescent flames. Honestly, the notion of a car's 'character' and 'suffering' is a bit on the anthropomorphic side...it's just another appliance on wheels, you might as well use it for something.
Once nice aspect though of converting a Benz diesel (of this era) to a Chevy engine is that unlike a Benz gas engine removal, by removing a Benz diesel 1980 vintage you aren't degrading the sound and vibration levels, (improving them actually!) like you would by replacing a Benz gas engine with a Chevy V8.
I really hate the sound of American V8s of that era. I like the noise from the new ones much better, especially the Mustang cammers.
Anyway, to answer your question, it doesn't seem to be worth the work after all. I should just buy a modern Benz diesel and forgeddahbouddit.
http://www.datsuns.com/cars/pl510/red.htm
I like the idea of remaining genetically Nissan.
I'm sure the car is a bit nose-heavier than the original...a lot would depend on whether the battery is moved to the trunk and how far back the engine is mounted. I really like the idea of using a bone-stock luxury car engine to get some speed out of something. I expect that you get a 13 second car that idles at 500 rpm...as long as the V6 motor mounts are used...I imagine those things are a little bit of a shaker.
In any case, it would totally change the character of the car rather than just making it a little bit faster and/or using a cheaper engine. Those V8 XJ's are kind of an odd concept to me.
As for engine conversions, one I would dearly like to do is one that would bring my DS up-to-date in all ways. I mean, stylistically (exterior and interior), and technologically in terms of suspension design/layout and safety features, it is STILL an avant garde automobile. (Just add some silicon and airbags and it's superior to any modern car out there.) I've already upgraded the electrical system (a 35amp Ducellier just doesn't cut it) and the stereo. But the engine sucks. It's loud/shaky/harsh, needs premium gas, and it really gutless. Someday, I will replace it with something lighter, bulletproof, a little more powerful, and more consonant with the rest of the car. A Mazda 13B would be sweet, as would a Mercedes 3.2L V6....
(My DS will be willed to one of my future kids, so I don't really care about preserving its value. But it's a swap that's still some days in the future.)
So lets see, the car was introduced in 1968, and ran, with minor changes, until 1992. That's 24 years! That's got to say something for the kind of car the original XJ was, even if it was built like crap through some of those years.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
better candidate.
He says the A is actually wider than the MG-B(?).
Any advice to pass onto him?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
If he wants to build a terrifying straight line street rod, pick something worthless and have fun making it into something worthwhile---there are plenty of very inexpensive domestic and foreign cars that will never be worth any money that you can play with.
But an MGA is a solid collectible and they will soon be breaking the $20K barrier. Turning one into an un-driveable belching beast seems senseless to me, and disrespectful of automotive heritage.
I've driven many of these V-8 conversions and they are all a big disappointment after the first one-half hour. Cramped, hot, unruly, noisy, lots of frame flex, and 99% of the time using an auto. trans. I mean, now really.
MG did do a factory V-8 for the MGB but you know, using that cow of a Rover V-8 didn't make the car all that much faster than a stock MGB. At least MG had the good sense to use only the stronger coupe body for that conversion.
Maybe he's just fantasizing. He's kind of bummed because he thinks the motor in his TR-6 is failing. I assume that car would be worth more w a new 2.5 six than w a V8 as well.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
If he wants a fast MGA, he could build a Stage II MGB motor for it, and get maybe 130 HP. With such a light car, it should fly.
But if he realll wants to put a V8 in something, he could try an MGB coupe, since this has been done successfully before.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Actually, the extra 45HP make the MGB way more fun. Having driven many MGB V8 conversions from mild to wild, I can tell you that the roadster is certainly strong enough to handle a V8.
Mine has only 160HP to the rear wheels, but I would never, ever go back.
http://britcars.net/FloydC1.jpg
Turboshadow
As for "wild" V8 conversions, that just bastardizes a great little British sports car. Turning a nice MGB into a bellowing beast is a real crime IMHO. If you want a Cobra, go buy a kit for $12,000 and build it, is my advice, or get a Sunbeam Tiger that at least has a V8 you can do something with. But don't mess up a nice "B.
Ideas fail for a reason. The Cobra was a smash hit, the V8 MGB and Tiger not so much...
Personally, I like the American V8 conversions. I do prefer them on the less mainstream cars (TR7 and rubber bumper MGBs) because those cars are cheaper.
I talked at length about 10 years back with a guy that had a 289 powered 75 Spitfire. The handling was descibed as diabolical, and it had a huge hoodscoop like a 64 Ramcharger to cover the engine.
Turboshadow
I wonder though, even if the engine isn't much heavier than MB unit, it might still end up being too much power for it. To use a totally different example, a Mopar smallblock wedge V-8 weighs around 525 lb, only about 50 lb more than the slant six. But the overall weight of the car usually went up by around 175 lb or more when you got the V-8, because of bigger brakes and other beefed-up components to handle the extra power.
Then it could just be that the extra torque is too much for the lightweight MG body, and makes it too scary to handle? I'd imagine that even a mild 302 probably still puts out about 230-250 ft-lb of torque (and that's "net", post-1971 torque!), which would probably be considered stump-pulling for something like an MG!
I did drive a V8 conversion in a Mercedes 280SL and that was pretty good---it was a low HP Ford 289 with automatic and a very quiet muffler system and beautifully, and I mean beautifully, engineered. That seemed to work.
I personally know more than 40 people that disagree. Come to our British V8 Meet in Townsend, TN this June and try out some well sorted, very fun MGV8s (& TR6 V8s).
On one hand, you say that you drove an MGV8 and it wasn't that fast. Then you say that a V8 makes it no fun to drive. Can't have it both ways. A Buick/Rover is not a big engine, but twice the displacement, 2-3 times the power, & 40 pounds lighter than stock makes it perfect.
Even putting a 302 in a MGB doesn't have to upset the balance or handling of the car. I have driven 2 MGBs that were dyno'd to be putting over 300hp to the rear wheels. Both are excellent handling cars. Way better than any Sunbeam Tiger.
BTW, that 4 cyl. MGB that can outrun a Costello V8 is not going to be very streetable or, as you say, much fun to drive.
I don't like driving them at all...too much understeer, too much engine heat, too much noise of the wrong sort for my particular tastes. A British sports car should sound like a British sports car, not like a GTO.
I'm trying to think if I ever drove a V8 conversion that substantially made a "better" car---but I think all one gets is a "different" car--which may suit your particular tastes, granted.
I'd much rather drive a car with less power quickly than one with too much power slowly.
I did drive an MGB fitted with a Mazda rotary and 5 speed and that car was pretty sweet--I preferred it to the V8, no question. Also the TDs with Volvo engines are okay, but I'd never do that to a TC.
But I do agree with you that a 130HP MGB built up from an 1800cc engine is not all that streetable. However, a well tuned stock MGB is actually not much slower than a stock MGB V-8---which is why the V8 didn't sell. You only gain maybe 1.5 seconds or so.
If I had a Cobra, I'd want the smallest, lowest HP engine possible, a mildly tuned 289 would be perfect for me. I think the 427s are just plain nasty to drive. Ditto Vipers.
I also drive a Porsche 928, so I know all about V8 sports cars and what I like and don't like personally.
You know, to each his own, that's what makes cars a hobby.
Of course, if you tossed me the keys for a day, I wouldn't whine :P
If it's the power, well the MGB always was a little underpowered, no getting around that. It never did have enough to get throttle induced oversteer under most conditions and so was lacking in handling there. And I suppose a mere 50% increase in power by going from the 100 or so horses from the 4 to the 150 or so horses from the 8 could be described as a marginal increase but then it truely makes me wonder what you would consider more suitable.
Actually your comments tend to persuade me that you have never actually driven a V8-MGB at all but are simply regurgitating some old negative press disdainfully presented on behalf of the old Triumph faction. Or if you did, perhaps it was such an old and tired example as to be scarcely capable of rolling out of the driveway, because I can tell you from experience that even a very mild 215 with under 7:1 compression is a joy to drive compared to the 1800, due in large part to the exceedingly wide powerband.
But a Cobra? BAH! What on earth do the two cars have in common that you would be cheeky enough to suggest I might like one of those better than an MGB? Clueless, I'd say.
Jim
I'd be curious to see how something like that performs and handles.
Anyone remember the pro-stock 4 door Mavericks from the mid seventies?
.... or those little cars (sort of like a Citation) that used to be modified with a 350?
Isn't there a BIG car show in Pa. next week?
... and a cruise, too?
If it's a modern V8, the best thing to do is buy a plastic full-size dummy of the engine you wish to use. This allows you to figure out your clearances and motor mounts and exhaust/manifold paths and radiator clearances and cooling. Once the dummy engine has been properly located, you can worry about the transmission mounting and clearances and floor tunnel cutting, probably using a gutted transmission case. Then you've have to fabricate a driveshaft. Depending on the power of this V8, you may need to completely change your differential, but maybe not.
As for the gauges, simple resistors should protect them but I'm not sure how you'll get the speedometer to work. That's going to take some research.
You're in for a big job.
p.s. - did you check/change the fuel filter?