Pricing used vehicles involved in accidents/reconditioned

im_brentwood · June 2003

Junk title?

If a car has a Junk title then it's worse than a salvage title! A Junk title is also known as an unrebuildable title or a Certificate of Destruction.

It means the car is NEVER supposed to go back on the road. Either because it's an older car with heavy damage or the car was so badly damaged that it was deemed impossible to properly repair it and make it safe to use again.

DO NOT BUY IT! PERIOD!

janz · June 2003

If you drive it even another year or two, you won't take such a financial hit.

On the other hand if you don't want it why would someone else, unless they could get it for a steal?

kinley · June 2003

No body damage, the interior dried out, and the electrical system is fine.

sirveaux · June 2003

The vehicle is in nearly perfect condition, it has 80k miles and all options (leather, auto climate, moonroof, bose stereo, alloy wheels, spoiler, power seats, etc). Maxima SE, gold exterior and beige interior. Not sure the extent of the damage (ie why it was given the junk title). Let me know if you need more info.

-Ryan

vikd · June 2003

...even take your chances? Go find another Max; there's a lot out there, I know 'cause I've been looking at em too...

Regards... Vikd

montanafan · June 2003

The car isn't "in nearly perfect condition". It has a "junk title". In Massachusetts, the "junk title" is also labeled as a "parts-only" title and can NEVER be re-titled (which means it can't be sold) or re-registered. Since title branding is fairly uniform now between states, I would guess that California would be the same. So to answer your question. it is worthless unless you have a Maxima that needs lots of parts.

-------UPDATE----------
What do you know. Guess I should have "googled" before I posted. Unlike Massachusetts, California can "revive" a car with a "junk" title (previously dismantled). It involves paperwork, info about the rebuilder, proof of purchase for every part that went into the rebuild, alot of fees, and an inspection by the California DMV. So perhaps this car has been through that proccess. That being said, you could have problems getting a loan (if neeeded), insurance, and futre resale problems. As others have advised, there are many more fish in the ocean. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/howto/htvr4.htm

isellhondas · June 2003

For a VERY good reason!

Don't even THINK about buying that car!

sirveaux · June 2003

Rest assured, there's almost no chance I would buy this vehicle, I'm really just interested, because the guy knows it has a junk title and has lowered the price a small amount. So, I'm trying to get some feedback on how much such a thing really diminishes the value. He'd have to lower the price A LOT more to get anybody to buy it though. And when I said "nearly perfect", it was in response to someone asking it's condition, and except for the title, that's the case. It is currently registered and driven, so I guess it has gone through that process in California.

-Ryan

jratcliffe · June 2003

1. A maintenance guarantee comes with it.
2. You NEVER plan to sell it, ever.
3. You get a mechanic you trust with your life (because that's what you're doing) signs off on it.

Even then, be very afraid.

rroyce10 · June 2003

...... Yes, you can raise the dead on the CA titles, it's very close to the new program that was instituted in Texas in (98/99?) .. you have to leap tall buildings with a single bound, but it is done and the State of CA looks hard and long, which is a good thing.

           Based on the info on the Maxima SE .. (without seeing it and getting a touchy feely) it's worth "around" $3 grand, might pay $4,0/$4,5 on the retail side .. the hard part is, if you go to sell it, who's going to buy it ..? that market is about as big as a thimble ..

            I would be going to "Down the Road motors" if I were you ..

                      Terry.

sirveaux · June 2003

The fact is I probably would never sell the vehicle, but my last vehicle was totaled and the one before that stolen, so in either of those situations I'd be looking at getting next to nothing for the vehicle. It'd have to be dirt cheap for me to actually consider buying it. I really appreciate all the input from everyone, thanks

-Ryan

janz · June 2003

You must be a young'un. Never is a VERY long time!

rroyce10 · June 2003

..... And where was the work done, front to firewall ..? side slam by the rear door ..? side ..?

Terry.

thetwoakids · June 2003

The damage was to the drivers side (from bumper to sliding door). The dash had to be replaced. I checked Carfax and am not sure when things are reported but the VIN number comes up clean.

The work is being done by Scottsdale Paint & Body. They are supposed to be very reputable but are very slow.

We have to sell the car because my son is in a wheelchair. Our insurance wouldn't pay for anything large enough to accomodate it. So, we financed a new Odessey right away with the hope that we could pay most of it off with the sale of the old one.

Thanks

kinley · June 2003

The Odyssey was involved in a crash. It was not severe enough to be totaled. It has been repaired using Honda approved parts and the body shop process has not been a "rush" project. In fact, the reconstruction of the damaged area could be considered "hand made" by local and experienced body mechanics. When you buy into and believe the above facts, there shouldn't be a problem with owning this vehicle. Sure, perhaps, the body "lost it's virginity", but that's not nearly as bad as a perfect body with an engine and transmission that's been abused by a previous owner. There are more variables of course, but the above could be considered by a reasonable person.

vikd · June 2003

...what I also don't get is that it appears from the post that he/she bought ANOTHER Odyssey..?

Is this true thetwoakids?? Why would you purchase another brand new veh while yours was in the shop being repaired...? Sorry dude, but this is close to one of the more, ahem, questionable decisions I've ever heard of...and you certainly won't get anything for the used one commensurate with what you paid for the new one. I wish you luck but I fear you're in deep with this one...!

Regards... Vikd

rivertown · June 2003

Check into a 'diminished value' insurance claim. The difference between what your old van is worth wrecked and repaired vs. unwrecked is 'diminished value' and under some circumstances insurance covers that loss.

rroyce10 · June 2003

..... Now that I know where the damage is .. how much cost ..? ~ American money ..

Terry.

rroyce10 · June 2003

..... I was up and getting to run off to an auction ..

Terry.

sonjaab · June 2003

Check with that honda dealer on a that new one.
Many mfrs. offer special programs for the handicapped. Such as special financing,cash money
towards special equipment, lifts, etc.
I know GM, Ford, Mopar have such programs aval. on NEW vehicles...Not sure about honda tho.

My uncle has a new xcab S-10.....GM mobility program paid $$$ to equip his vehicle with a wheel chair lift and hand controls. The lift is pretty nifty. It folds out from behind the rear seat and lifts him and chair up to seat. Then they both fold and return to behind the seat.

http://www.gmmobility.com

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Checking into mobility programs is a very good idea, sonjaab. Unfortunately, it won't do this user much good if they have already purchase their new vehicle. Also, to the best of my knowledge, Honda does not provide any sort of special assistance to consumers who need adaptive equipment. I believe that the only automakers that do are, GM (including Saturn), Ford, DaimlerChrysler, Volkswagen, and Toyota/Lexus.

Car_man
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jasmith52 · June 2003

For a car that has been in a minor parking lot accident and has had the fender repainted would there be any reduction in price for that car. Assume that the car has been repaired by a quality shop and that there was not any frame damage.

Lets say the car is a 3 year old American car like a Chevy Impala or Ford Taurus that would retail for 10-12 thousand dollars.

cheerywith2 · June 2003

I'm thrilled with the way my Odyssey performed during my crash. I would definitely purchase another one. However, my vehicle is currently assessed at repairs totaling $10,000, so not enough to be considered as "totaled." Two questions: 1. How do I determine what is a reasonable offer by the insurance company on the diminished value of the Odyssey? 2. How reliable is the Odyssey going to be for my family if, God forbid, we are in a second crash?

rivertown · June 2003

An ins pro who posts here suggested, under similar circumstances, trading the wreck.
The difference between what the dealer allows you for the wreck plus the check (or the repaired wreck alone) and what the van is worth unwrecked (retail) is the diminished value.
I had a car totalled in Dec; my ins agent was a great deal of help in settling the claim.

sphinx99 · July 2003

A friend of mine got into a very serious wreck with his new Prelude SH a long time ago. It was in a rollover, however the frame was undamaged and the insurance company would not total. On the advice of the saleswoman who sold the car--who used to work at a nearby Porsche dealership--he took the car to a local highline German body shop that caters to Porsches, top end Benzes, etc. The Honda received $15k worth of repairs over three months, while sitting alongside Bentleys and BMW 745s and the like. When it came out--and I've driven it and can vouch for this--it actually was a better car than before. The paint finish is absolutely breathtaking, there actually are *fewer* rattles than before (more to the point, there are *no* rattles) and the car looks absolutely magnificent. It has been utterly problem-free for a year.

On the other hand, another person I know had a relatively new Civic four-door receive a month and a half of repairs at a less-reputable shop, and what he got back was still basically a wreck--everything misaligned, things constantly breaking, rattles, etc.

What I've learned from the former story is that it's true that a car can come out of surgery in terrific shape--but you have to have some real pros working on it, and it won't be cheap. The latter story is more common. Because only you (the owner) know which category your car falls into, potential buyers are always going to price their relative uncertainty into their offer and that's the problem.

Sorry I don't have anything firm to share, just these anecdotes, but I do have a respect for what a top-notch body shop can do these days.

dako_tian · July 2003

After carefully reading your last post, it sounds to me like the Odyssey was (is still being?) repaired, slowly but well. While it was (is?) out of commission, you needed a vehicle large enough to accommodate your son's wheel chair, but your insurance would not pay for a rental that would suffice. So, you bought a new Odyssey right away to solve the immediate need for a serviceable transport with the expectation that you will sell the old Odyssey after repairs are (were?) complete.

Can I claim a gold star or did I miss something (like everyone else seems to have done)?

vikd · July 2003

...that is what I've read in to it from the very beginning. I immediately questioned this person's, well...sanity. A bizarre decision, and one that I've yet to hear a reasonable explanation for. You don't just go buy another BRAND NEW veh just because yours is in the shop!!! Do I have to mention that a Honda Odyssey is not exactly a worn out golf glove...?

Regards... Vikd
Who is still waiting for a reason to NOT think the original poster is completely insane...

thetwoakids · July 2003

My son is handicapped b/c I was hit in the car while pregnant. He was born four months early.

I bought the first Odessy b/c I needed a mini van to accomodate his wheelchair. I bought it strictly b/c of its safety record.

After the recent accident, the reason I walked away neither dead nor seriously injured was b/c of the Odessy.

The rental car the insurance company would not have allowed enough room for my first son's wheelchair. Let alone the stroller for my baby son. And certainly not groceries or such on top of that. We could not have gone anywhere.

So we had to do something. And, after being hit badly twice, I would only be in something safe. Hence the second Odessy.

It may have not been the best financial decision but it was the safest one (and most realistic given the wheelchair). But, given my loss of use, diminished value and the money I have spent to insurance the first Odessy while it sits in the auto body shop, I am hoping not too bleed money after this accident.

I came to this site for guidance on what to price my car at. For those who have helped, thank you. For those who choose to insult me, why? Does it make you feel better?

kinley · July 2003

down others to their level and/or practice oppressive condemnation thinking it will increase their stature. When in earshot of insulting people - just say, "Thank you for sharing and being helpful."

vikd · July 2003

My intentions were not to insult. I appreciate your concerns regarding safety and can understand, given your history, why you are careful in this regard. However, I still stand by my original thought that your decision to buy a whole brand new veh while yours was getting repaired, is a questionable one at best. I know, because I have also been there, that ins. companies don't always shell out on rental cars sufficient enough to get you in to a like veh. while you wait for repairs to be completed. They usually have some $/day limit that they ask you to adhere to which in your case didnt seem to be enough to rent another Odyssey (if you could even find one for rent). I know this is hindsight, but I would have taken the ins. companies per diem, add my own $20/day to it and rented something larger that would have met your criteria for safety and utility.

As for moving forward...you can just hope to get as much on the repaired Odyssey as possible and apply the proceeds (assuming the repaired one is payed for) towards the new one. Unfortunately, the price for your short term safety/utility concerns will be steep, especially if you still owe on the first van. Either way, you'll be out more $$ than an additional $20 per day for a suitable rental vehicle during the repair period. Again, I do understand your safety concerns. However, I tend to be a logical/pragmatic/common sense type of thinker. This would have prevented me from making the same decision you did; it's that simple...no insults meant.

kinley-- I take offense to those implications. thetwokids hasnt exactly spent a whole lot of time in this thread further expalaining the situation and/or answering follow up questions sufficient for decent responses. I'm sure youre aware of the amount of "hit-and-run" type of posters there are here on Edmeunds...I had no reason to believe thetwokids wasnt one of them...

Regards... Vikd

rivertown · July 2003

Have you checked out an ins claim for diminished value? That would help with the financial hit Vikd is talking about.

thetwoakids · July 2003

diminished value. And, b/c I haven't sold the car yet, I don't really know what to ask for.

kinley · July 2003

" Sorry dude, but this is close to one of the more, ahem, questionable decisions I've ever heard of...and you certainly won't get anything for the used one commensurate with what you paid for the new one. I wish you luck but I fear you're in deep with this one...!"

Apologies from me not deserved. Kinley

rivertown · July 2003

A couple of sites for you:
http://www.accidentcheck.com/add001.htm
http://www.autoappraisal.com/value.htm

Maybe also run a search on "diminished value" + auto + insurance + "your state"? In GA, for example, diminished value compensation is legislated.

vikd · July 2003

...apologies from you were never requested.

I'm aware of what I wrote, thanks, and continue to stand by it. I think most would agree that what t2akds did was financially irresponsible and logically questionable. The tone of my post may have come across a bit harsh, but the spirit and message remains the same. I wasnt trying to insult, just trying to tell it like it is...t2akds is not in a good position. If you feel otherwise, please explain. I'd like to know how you're industry expertise and financial wisdom could extricate t2akds from this particular situation. At least I have provided an opinion on the subject at hand. You on the other hand, well...

Regards... Vikd

vikd · July 2003

...some good advice and reference material...

Regards... Vikd

shued · July 2003

Now the Oddy EX can be bought at $25,000.
When you drive at home, its value is
depreciated at 15%, (normal is 25%). Thus,
without accident, you will ask about $21,250.
The repair cost has about $10,000. If I were
a buyer, I will consider it if you reduce another
30%, (Normally when the car is totalled, it needs
to reduce another %40-%50). That is, $14,785. Now
the question is, if the buyer has $14,785, he/she
will buy a used one with accident history. This is why the private market for 2-3 years' used car
is much difficult than 7-10 years'

sheltiepup · July 2003

I just bought a 91 civic- Which looked to be in good shape for $2000 (79kmiles) I ran a car fax report after the fact(Unfortunately) and found that it had a Junk title and dismantled title reported-How did the car dealership get a new title on it? Does this mean that it is totally unsafe?IS there any recourse?Is it the law to of revealed this? I just got it today- Can I do anything about it? I thought if it had one of these titles it wasnt allowed to be titled or driven again? What do I do?This car is for my 16 yr. old.
Help
Tina

rivertown · July 2003

If you want out of the car (I would) - start by contacting the dealer, tell 'em about the carfax, and ask if they'll undo the deal. I'd ask for the general manager.

Disclosure laws vary state by state, but I wouldn't try to force anything before trying the easy approach.

Safe to drive? Beats me. If the damage was severe enough, it won't handle a second crash as well as it handled the 1st one. An good independent mechanic could tell you more. Even so, the crashworthiness issue would keep me out of it.

mfullmer · July 2003

leomartin · July 2003

sirveaux · July 2003

tblazer503 · July 2003

follow-up with the dealership... I highly doubt that they are aware of the salvage title(give them the benefit of the doubt) check your paperwork for any notations about the title, try to work with the dealership.. they hopefully will try to work with you... esp. since '91 civ's are running in and about 3k for retail(depending on model).

If you are seriously looking to search for a car, get a 30day membership to carfax. It will help you to avoid this problem in the future. Oh, and for the 2k market, you are probably better off going to private party in your local paper, will see better deals, and usually can actually meet the people you are buying the car form(usually more flexible too)...

hope this helps.

thetwoakids · July 2003

gadgetful · January 2004

I was just thinking of trading in my 2001 Camry when I was involved in a minor crash this morning. Due to weather conditions, I lost control of it and ran into a road sign. Damaged to the front driver mirror which I will replace. I'll also probably have to replace the front quarter panel and at least need the front driver door painted, if not replaced. Should I expect my trade-in value to drop a lot even after I fix all the damages? They're all cosmetics, nothing is structural. Otherwise, the car is in almost perfect condition. I've never been involved in an accident with my cars....

prodigalsun · January 2004

Get it fixed right and you'll have no problems.

geecheewheels · February 2004

'03 Jr. Jag sideswiped, (by a good neighbor, bad driver!). Front left quarter panel & driver door being replaced and painted as well as hood.

Should I expect any diminished value, if so how can it be determined.

volvomax · April 2004

It depends on a few things.
1 Will it be on Carfax?
Alot of consumers will walk away from any car w/ even a minor accident report on Carfax, hence many dealers will also.
2 How obvious is the repair?
I've seen some very good and very bad minor repairs. How well the car presents itself will have alot to do with it.

As to the dollar amount, it really depends on the situation. Generally, a dealer will go higher on a car they plan to resell. If they are planning to wholesale a car due to one or both of the reasons above they will be more reluctant to put top dollar in a trade.

jimbos · October 2004

Please help. I am shopping for a used Tahoe. The vehicle that I like is a 2004. The sticker price would have been around 46k new. I have found a few remaining 04's, but they dont have the options I want. I found a used 04 with 13k miles. It turns out that this unit was involved in an accident (5k in damage, hood was re painted, FR fender was replaced. FR Wheel replaced. New Front grill, right headlight and right fog light replaced). It doesnt look like there was any mechanical damage. No damage to the doors or suspension. They are asking 35k, I offered 32k.

This is a GM certified vehicle. I ran a Carfax report and it came back clean. The dealer that is selling the Tahoe is the same dealer the repaired it.
Is 32k a fair price? The Kelly Blue Book Private party price is 35k, the KBB retail is 40k. If I could find a new 04 still on the lot, it would probably sell for about 36-37k after all rebates.
should I be worried about it?

Any help is appreciated.

hfang · October 2004

My wife was in a rear end accident about a month ago (her RX rear ended someone) and resulted in quite a bit of damage (about $22K) - front airbags deployed, and the front was pretty much caved in, but no engine issues as far as I can tell. Just got it back, and it looks great and rides as before. Our intent when we purchased this car was to keep it for a long time (7+yr, 100+K miles); would you guys trade it in and get a new one, or keep it as originally planned?

All the replacement parts were new, but the hood, front fenders, front doors, etc were all repainted (to blend)-

And what kind of hit would it take on trade-in? It really does look great, and rides/drives as it did the day we purchased it-

Thanks-

Pricing used vehicles involved in accidents/reconditioned

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