Pricing used vehicles involved in accidents/reconditioned

boomchek · October 2004

I'd keep it especially if it drives like before, and since you were going to keep it for a long time. You'll lose thousands if you sell or trade it in (at least up here in Canada) because of the enormous $22k hit.

rroyce10 · October 2004

....... Whoa.! $22,000 .. American money.?!?

               Man, thats a pretty big hit - $22 big ones ....

            I'm sure someone did a good job and it looks good ~ too you .. but I'm sure a good Used Car Guy can see it with his eyes closed on a rainy day ...

            Things like new tie rod ends, eng mounts, core supports, oil filters, lines on the air compressor, reinforcement mount brackets, engine cradles and the new paint from the doors forward, have a tendency to set off a few alarms, not including the overspray and missed area's .... is it on carfax.?

              Obviously I'm not standing there and looking at it .. but "if" it looks and runs well (too you) then keep that puppy .. not knowing all the specifics and the miles, but it's probably a $20,000ish vehicle .. so drive it and enjoy it, because a dealer will just send it off to an auction, declare it at the block, and then hope it doesn't take a severe beating and become the red-headed step child .............

Terry.

qbrozen · October 2004

don't take this the wrong way or think i'm bashing in any way. This is honestly all in good humor.

I just had to point out how funny I found this:
My wife was in a rear end accident about a month ago (her RX rear ended someone)

man, i'd trade that car right away! There's no way I'd trust driving a car that was so malicious as to just go out and hit someone. And with your wife in the driver's seat, too!

hfang · October 2004

Thanks for the response Terry. I guess another way to ask the question is this: if the job was well done, and there wasn't any "engine", transmission, or frame issues, and it was mostly bolt-on parts, lights, wheels, airbags, etc -> is this car more likely to break down in the future- in your experience? It truly runs as new now. THe body shop who performed the work does most of the work for the Midwest Lexus dealers who's cars are damaged during shipping/transit, so I assume they do reasonably good work.

Thanks-=

rroyce10 · October 2004

....... If it's done right and it passes all the standard qualifications .. then I would keep/enjoy and have fun with it, there's no sense of taking a $10,000+ beating on it when it will accomplish what your looking for - unless your loaded with money and you light your cigars everyday with $50 dollar bills .......................

PS: I do find the new fifties very attractive, so use the old ones.

Terry.

mike20 · October 2004

I bought a 2001 GMC sierra C3 (predecessor to denali) on line from a huge GMC dealer in Houston tx. While negotiating i specifically asked if it had any paintwork. the salesman said they didn't believe it was painted and they even measure the paint thickness to be sure. they assured me i'd love it and if i wasn't happy they would ship it back at their expense and and refund the money. This is all verbal.

The carfax was clean. When it arrived i noticed evidence of paintwork and excessive road noise from right rear of cab while driving. I took it to a local body shop. He found the doors were replaced, right rear cab panel rewelded in, the frame was straightened, replaced rear diff with junkyard, etc...the list goes on. They first said they would take it back but now are hedging. do i have any recourse?

boomchek · October 2004

Don't know about Texas law, but in Canada (at least here in Vancouver, BC) even a verbal agreement would stick in court. So if the law is same down where you are Mike20, then technically they should take it back.

How long before you found out that it's had all these accidents?

Did you talk to the Sales mgr? Dealer principal? Did the bill of sale state "as is"? Does the dealership have any satisfaction guaranteed programs on used cars? If worst comes to worst would they let you switch it for something else on the lot?

Another good reason why you should check and test drive a (especially used) vehicle before signing the bill of sale.

rroyce10 · October 2004

........ How long have you had the vehicle .?

Terry.

mike20 · October 2004

It arrived last sunday night so i didn't get an opportunity to inspect it until Monday morning. First thing after i found the repairs i called the rep. One thing i didn't make clear..i'm in CT. I bought the truck sight-unseen based on their description. Trusting soul that i am. They had good feedback on ebay and the self-proclaimed biggest gmc dealer in the nation, (beck & masten) in Houston TX. They've had the fax from the local body-shop all day. I called the rep today and he said the GM is looking it over...'it's his call' whether they refund and take it back. It's a 700 bill to ship it back. He's steadily changing his story from his claim of if i wasn't happy they'd take it back. I filed a complaint with the TX BBB today. I know as time goes on it will be harder for me to get them to take it back but there must be a disclosure law. TX is a contemporary state, isn't it?

boomchek · October 2004

Was this a Certified PreOwned vehicle from General Motors? Do you they have such programs in Tx? If it was and if the dealership gives you a hard time then contact General Motors if you have to.

Hope it all works out

rroyce10 · October 2004

...... Yikes.! .. you live in CT and you bought a vehicle in Texas.?

You need to get with the Sales Manager quickly, and filing the BBB complaint was not the smartest thing to do until these issues we covered ...... was this on Carsmack.?

Terry.

isellhondas · October 2004

Of why I would NEVER buy a car over the internet.

Hope things work out for you!

mike20 · October 2004

It had a clean carsmack. They sold it as a certified unit. I have the inspection report and a warranty certificate. I've only been talking with the used car mgr. He almost begged me not to talk to the GM. He said if i talk to him he'll just not work with me. I suspect the used car mgr is concerned about this getting elevated but then he says HE needs to elevate it to the GM to get approval to return it. i haven't been driving it other than to the body shop for inspections.

Specifically about the truck, it's been hit on the pass side...both doors replaced with used doors (you can see the white paint on the hinges where the new pewter has flaked off, the right rear cab frame has been cut out and rewelded, the right side rocker has been cut out and rewelded, the right side cab bed has been replaced, the frame's been straightened (you can see the deformation in the frame hole for the press hook), the differential was replaced with a used one, there's gobs of clearcoat drips on the rocker...it goes on, can't drive it over 35 mph without hearing road/wind/drivetrain noise emanating from the right rear cab cause that section wasn't perfectly straight when the welded the new section so the rear pass door won't seal.

But, it's a certified unit with a clean carfax. How does this happen? Is there a disclosure law in tx?

mike20 · October 2004

Terry,

I don't understand, why is it a bad idea to get bbb involved? It had been two whole days since they had the fax containing confirmation from a gm dealer body shop, and still i was without a clearcut committment to take the truck back. I was getting uncomfortable.

rroyce10 · October 2004

**right rear cab frame has been cut out and rewelded, the right side rocker has been cut out and rewelded, the right side cab bed has been replaced, the frame's been straightened (you can see the deformation in the frame hole for the press hook), the differential was replaced with a used one, there's gobs of clearcoat drips on the rocker** ....

       =====================

              Get all this info on paper and signed, and not by your brother-laws father, that used to be the painter in the hallways for the local elementary school - a professional certified body man ... it's Friday evening already, and this thing should be moving along alot faster .. find who the general Manager is and get the owners phone number (quietly and discreetly) and get this thing put to bed .. it "sounds" like the UCM is stuck between a foxhole and a grenade, but you can't get all psycho from 1,000 miles away ...... the reason why I felt the BBB wasn't a good thing -yet ... is you never play your hand until the game starts ...

                             Terry.

mike20 · October 2004

The above info is written up by the local GM dealer body shop manager. He put it on their company letterhead and we faxed it two days ago. He's the one who was able to determine all this with a 10 min inspection, ie. no lift and no droplight. I didnt know it was that bad. I just spoke with the UCM and he said his GM was saying he didn't want to take it back but he claims he convinced him, BUT, they want half of the transport fee for the return trip. Of course, that isn't what we originally agreed which was they would send it back at their expense. So, how should i respond to this. He claims his fax machine was down today and he couldn't fax me this in writing, and he would in the morning. What do you think?

steine13 · October 2004

(i) It "looks like" the facts are all stacked up in your favor... you're doing the right thing by NOT driving it, having a GM shop look at it, getting stuff in writing... but you do NOT want to get the lawyers involved, that's a last resort. Play very nice, be firm and polite, YOU have the truck THEY have the money... if you play your cards right, this should all just go away quietly and with a minimum of hassle. Getting the BBB on them does not count as "minimum of hassle", but what's done is done. And keep the legal beagles out of it until you hit a brick wall.
(ii) Listen to Terry. He knows this business, and most of all, he knows how car people think.

-Mathias

rroyce10 · November 2004

......... I would rather lose a shoe at the Prom, than the whole tuxedo ...

"if" it comes down to you splitting the transport, then do it .. right now, that vehicle is sitting on the East Coast and it needs to be heading west, this is probably the only time when home court advantage is "not" an advantage ....

Terry.

isellhondas · November 2004

By all means, if paying half the transportation gets your money back I would go for it!

Also, the BBB is next to worthless in my opinion anyway.

jaserb · November 2004

Did you buy this dude on eBay? If so, I'd say you could probably use the feedback club to your advantage. eBay is probably one of the only places where a buyer can do serious damage to a company's reputation that will negatively affect their ability to do business.

-Jason

mike20 · November 2004

Thank you all very much for your advice and sorry for the delay to provide an update but my home computer doesn't like edmunds (it has bugs) and i work 2nd shift so this is the first chance to repsond as i just got in to work.

As of Sat i have a fax in my possession confirming they will take it back. It goes on to say they are sorry i'm not satisfied with the truck, they were unaware it had been wrecked (i don't believe them), and they will take it back and refund the money less half the return transport fee after a satisfactory inspection that it'll be in the same condition as when it left(which is reasonable. I'll be sure to leave the candy wrappers and kid's toys in the cab, just like it was. I'll even throw some new england leaves in the bed for souvineers (sp?)).

I spoke with him afterwards and expressed my displeasure with paying half (this is before i read your posts). I've always been polite and non-combative. I simply told him i'd like to believe he's a man of his word, and he did make the claim before i bought it if i wasn't happy they would pay for all of it. I told him if it was me and my GM wouldn't pay then i'd pay, personally, just as a matter of integrity. He said he had people and couldn't talk but he'd work with me.

But, like you guys are saying, it's still here.

That was Saturday. Just got off the phone with him. He's waiting for transport quotes. It would take a few days for them to make it out here again. I asked how long it would take for the check to be sent to me after they were satisfied with their inspection upon delivery, and he said same day.
This ought to be interesting. I have a strong suspicion it's gonna be awhile for them to actually cut the check and send it. Most of the things he's claimed haven't been true. I think the only thing in my favor is they are a very large franchise dealership.
Thank you all for your help and i'll keep you posted if you're curious.

mike20 · November 2004

It was on ebay but they ended the auction to sell it to me. I offered him to put a buyitnow on for the amount of our agreed upon price so i could give him positive feedback but he said it didn't matter, they had enough and it was a small portion of their business. In retrospect, i think that was one red flag i missed.

Thanks for the idea, Jason.

Mike

rroyce10 · November 2004

Dash Auto Express at 888-209-0200.

local number, 816-353-8844.
or fax us at 816-353-0736

Office hours are 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. CST.
Sat 9:00 a.m. to Noon

They can try these guys and shop them around .. the nice thing is, they're in Missouri and they have transports that run east and west all the time .. can't hurt for them to call em' ......

Terry.

mike20 · November 2004

Thanks for the suggestion, Terry. I'll forward the info on and let you know who they finally use.

Mike

mike20 · November 2004

I'm still waiting for them to pick it up. They had a company scheduled to bring it to West virginia to another buyer or dealer, don't know which, but changed their minds to send it back to Houston. I got a call yesterday sayiong they want to send it to WV again. I called the trucking company and they are still trying to find a truck to take it. Sonce they changed their minds twice it's a week delay each time. Meanwhile, i sent them cash for a truck i can't use and they get to collect the interest from it. It's just not right.

mike20 · November 2004

Well, i still have it. The delay is due to the snowbirds making their seasonal migration to FLA and also, i just learned, the dealer put a cap on the amount they were willing to pay the transport. The town is on the Ohio border of WV. It's rather remote with only a Pittsburgh auction in the vacinity. The truckers aren't interested in going there unless the pay is higher. So, today the dealer finally increased the amount they're willing to pay with the broker today. I just got off the phone with the transport broker. They are more optomistic, now.

Randy, given the description of this pewter C3, what is the likely amount an auction buyer would step up for this? It looks good to the average consumer buyer. Paint is shiny with no dents or scratches. It has a clean title and carfax. It actually runs and drives fine...tracks straight, fresh brakes, tires are good but not 'knee-deep in rubber' LOL.

If it hadn't had previous frame, the NE manheim data is around $18Gs. Unless someone is sloppy and overlooks the paintwork and body repairs, i can't imagine a buyer paying that. So, given the prior frame dmg, How much would it bring on a good day? BTW, i didn't look up the auction data for texas. I don't have access to it now. The local dealer was showing me. I wonder what they go for in the SW compared to the NE?

2001 C3, ext cab AWD (they all come one way. This truck is the same as an 02 Sierra Denali but without quadrasteer) 47k miles, Pewter, heated tu-tone leather with memory, HO 6.0 with AWD, In dash 6 disc CD changer, etc. Interior is clean, no scratches and leather is also clean of tears, etc.

Thanks,

Mike

rroyce10 · November 2004

**If it hadn't had previous frame, the NE Manheim data is around $18Gs. Unless someone is sloppy and overlooks the paintwork and body repairs, i can't imagine a buyer paying that. So, given the prior frame dmg** .....

You have to declare the frame damage at the auction "especially" A Manheim, if not, it will bounce back faster than a rubber check .. it would probably see in and around the $12/$13 zipcode depending on who looks at it, and thats a Big maybe ...... if the transport company needs some extra $$ to move this mistake, THEN PAY IT ... in another 4/5 days the transport companies will be backed up 2/3 weeks because of Thanksgiving, and then there will only be a few more weeks of auctions, then most will sit idle for 2/3 weeks because of the Christmas/New Years holiday and you will be STUCK ... whatever it takes, *move it*.! ........ time is not your friend here.!

Terry.

PS: Who's Randy...?

thelinster · November 2004

We don't tolerate liars. We send 'em to Washington! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

When you get the check. I suggest you contact the Texas Attorney General's office -- just tell them the story. If the guy has other complaints, yours will help make a case. I also echo the e-bay feedback suggestion. One negative rating cancels dozens of positive ones.

jaki30 · November 2004

Anyone know how this turned out?

mike20 · December 2004

Finally got it resolved this week. They cut me a check for 2500. So i bought a GM certified GMC 2001 pewter C3 with 47xxx miles for 16G. I'm happy. It runs fine and looks good to the casual observer. The paint looks good, no orange peel or drips accept for some clearcoat drips under the rocker that can't be seen aside for laying down to look up from underneath. It's got a clean title and carfax. All in all i'm satisfied.

And, they couldn't have certified it if it had frame, so the damage was just skin and doors.

Thanks to all for your help.

inmass · January 2005

I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited in good condition that I want to sell. 70k miles, 4 new tires, new battery, leather interior w/ all the standard Limited options, body is in fairly good condition with a few minor dings. It has a salvage title and is registered in Massachusetts. I want to know the best option for me to sell it. I don't need to get the most $$ possible, I would rather do it easily and conveniently and not sell to a private party. Would a dealer give me anything for it? should I donate it? HELP!! thanks!

jasmith52 · January 2005

Just so you know, the tax laws regarding deductions of cars changed as of January 1, 2005. You now can only deduct what a donated car after being sold at auction brings to the charity.

Therefore after auction and storage fees and getting an auction price way back of trade-in price your donated car is not worth much to either you as a deduction or to your charity as a cash deal.

Post a real good description of this car over on the 'real world trade in values' thread where Terry will very accurately tell you what your car is worth.

fatdaddys · September 2006

There is a body shop in town with a 03 LE 15k
miles. I know the body shop owner. Have bought from him before. Does good work. It is a big shop he has had this covered for 2 years just getting to it.

This was left side damage, took out left wheel & both doors. No engine damage. I saw the before pictures
Man says there was no frame damage. This was a local car with dealer logo on. I tracked to the dealer, a young girl had the wreck which was bought new.

It is about finished, Shop man tells me take it to any front end shop anywhere for check. Take to Memphis he backs his work.

This has a totaled out title. This is for my daughter who is in college. This will be her last car from me and will last he forever..

He first said 15K later said will be cheaper.
I'm thinking heavy on this one. Give me your thoughts.. 15 is to high for a total out title.
Give me your thoughts on this one.
Thanks

cccompson · September 2006

Find out what it's private party value would be if never damaged. Then subtract AT LEAST one-third for the salvage title (40-50% would be better) to determine what to pay for it.

boomchek · October 2006

Here's a good example of buyer beware when buying cars that are written off or have been in a big accident:

My good friend's brother in law recently picked up a 2006 Infiniti G35 sedan with 2000km on the odo. The car has been used as a company car by Infiniti and was involved in an accident where the side airbags deployed, and the feneder and the door skins needed replacing. He picked it up for about $11000CDN.

He replaced the fender, airbags, and got a repaint done. The guy he sent the car to for the repaint was in the process of moving shops or was being kicked out of the shop. He rushed the job and did such a crappy repaint that there were dust bubbles and overspray on all of the mouldings. (That's another story as to why he even paid for the job).

So now $24000CDN ($11000 for car plus $13000 for the above)later the car is still not road ready:

The passenger doors don't close properly, and the car is now having other problems that are popping out. It's overheating, the dash lights don't light up, some mouldings are loose and the tail lights don't work at all.

Infiniti won't fix it under warranty because it was sold as salvage for a reason. They knew it wouldn't be worth fixing it because there could be too many hidden problems. Now to diagnose all of the above it would need to spend a good week at the dealership and labour is not cheap.

Good thing is he bought it for his wife and not to sell it and make money. After seeing the car I told my friend that his BIL should keep the car for 10 years to make it worthwhile, because he'd be lucky if he finds any buyer for it at all if he wants to resell it.

But it makes you wonder how much more money he will have to
sink into it as he has no warranty on it at all. And on top of that how much stress he has to put up with.

Now he's stuck with a lemon :lemon:

Moral of the story is buyer beware.

On the flipside though i did own a rebuilt 93 Civic for 3 years that i had no problems with at all. It's just these new mid and high end cars ares o complicated with electronics that you never know what hidden problems are damage they may have. :sick:

supacool · November 2006

My 06' saturn ion was damaged in an accident and the dlrshp is repairing it. How do I figure the depreciation of the vehicle compared to the current value if it had not been wrecked. I had front end damage.

boomchek · November 2006

How much was the damage? How much front end damage, ie: engine, suspension, or just cosmetic?

The way I determine value for my customers is getting my manager to give me to appraisal prices: one with no accidents, and the second with accidents.

supacool · November 2006

It was about $4200 worth including towing. damage include paint, suspension and/or axle, front tire, bumper, and replacing drvr door.

gmccardle · June 2007

Please let me know what you make of this situation. My 2003 Infiniti G35 sedan with the sports suspension and all the goodies was hit hard in the passenger side rear door and wheel by a driver who pulled out in front of me while she was making a left hand turn. She hit so hard she spun the car around in a circle and set off the passenger side airbag.
The body shop has had it for about 5 weeks now because they say they are looking for parts. They estimate at least another couple weeks until they have it to paint and get it to the Infiniti dealer for the mechanical stuff. I can't believe it wasn't totaled. The frame was bent and at this point they say I have $13,900 in damage. What does it take to total a car. I live in Florida and my insurance Co. is USAA.

I know when I get it back again it won't be worth nearly what the pre collision value was. The ins co tells me they estimated that at about $20,500. How do I figure out the post crash value? I was planning on trading in the car before the accident and now I think I'm just going to lose a ton of money. Any ideas from anyone on how to make the best of this situation? To make matters worse, the other driver was underinsured and only covered $10,000 in property damage coverage.

Thanks!

user777 · June 2007

you might want to ask you question over in Questions about Auto Insurance and Accidents. It seems more active.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef09308/2694

mischief316 · August 2007

Hi everyone.

Well as i was doing a bit of shopping around. I ran across a small dealer who is offering a used honda si 2006 for $14k. Yeah sounds weird right? Well the catch is that the car is a salvage. Yup. But the car look like new. No noticeable damage the paint and everything matches together. According to the guy it was rebuilt only from the front. That no real damage was done to the outside.

It looked great to my eye. I checked the rims and tires and they are the originals because they show some tare and ware. But not enough to notice a big accident. The bottom of the car is intact, but there is some residue of what looks like cement. The guy said it was the spill from the battery because it leek. That made me kind of nervous. Inside the hood everything seemed normal. No major discrepancies. He said he changed a couple of things on the car but nothing major. He said that the car was only damage from the front.

Well the car seemed nice and fit to me. The price is good and it can probably be lowered. I plan to keep the car for a long time. Is it worth is? How can i check if the car was severely damge? I tried carfax but it does not go into any specifics.
(http://www.carfax.com/viewEmailReport.do?a=p7qiXw1fXsXVl1UReDEsYLHd+v88CJr9kc- Cv7NNWuAtIcX5x2qyApnxkrGrCZjrf)
i hope the link works.

any advice will be greatly appreciated.

joel0622 · August 2007

He said he changed a couple of things on the car but nothing major.

If there was nothing major then the car would not have been a total loss and be on a rebuilt title. This car has had the crap knocked out of it and sounds like a good body man pieced it back together. I would be scared, very scared.

jlawrence01 · August 2007

Personally, it sounds like a flood car ...

Avoid like the plague unless you like a problematic car at a pretty steep price.

joel0622 · August 2007

If it was a Flood car wouldn't the title be branded "flood" and not "rebuilt".

May be different from state to state, I don't know.

british_rover · August 2007

Ehh it depends on the state I think.

isellhondas · August 2007

For a very good reason.

You are asking for trouble and you will have a car that will be next to impossible to sell down the road.

You get what you pay for.

lian · August 2007

Hi,
does anyone knows anyone who can offer to run a report for free because they have bought multiple reports and don't need them all? I need one on a car with VIN 2g4ws52j2y1172534. Thanks a lot.

joel0622 · August 2007

Dang dude., just cough up the $10 and pull a report.

tidester · August 2007

Actually, it's $25.99 but for $5.00 more you can get unlimited reports. I agree that anyone looking for those reports should pay their own way rather than asking others to violate the terms of their agreement with CARFAX.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

tidester · August 2007

For general information about the vehicle you may want to look at Buick Century.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

Pricing used vehicles involved in accidents/reconditioned

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