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Forester Turbo in 1 year

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Our Legacy has a 17" x 30" ASC, it's a Model 750. It's medium to large if you compare to most, but puny compared to the Forester's.

    I think a 5 speed XT will give a WRX wagon a good run for the money. The XT has better low end and is easier to drive fast, effortless. The WRX requires a good launch and keeping the revs up.

    The XT is quicker 0-3500 rpm, but that's where you spend 90% of your time. The WRX is quicker at high rpm. So let your driving style determine what to buy.

    I need the space, and I like that the XT is just a stab of the throttle away from passing anyone very, very quickly.

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    man, u guys are making me unappreciate my '03 XS 5speed. Lets see, I should have my first $100 in Subaru Bucks about next month... awww, the math is ugly right now.

    John
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    john laments, "man, u guys are making me unappreciate my '03 XS 5speed. Lets see, I should have my first $100 in Subaru Bucks about next month... awww, the math is ugly right now."

    Funniest post I've seen in ages. Thanks for the comic relief.

    -jack
  • pleiad7pleiad7 Member Posts: 59
    I'll be purchasing my XT at invoice price through Subaru's VIP program (I'm an IMBA member), so my dealer won't let me order one :-(.

    The sales guy called me yesterday and informed me that he will try and locate a silver one with Premium Package (in accordance with my wish list) at other dealerships around the Bay Area on Monday.

    Apparently it is common practice that dealers swap inventory among each other; it's all good, but it means that some peon may be driving the car 50 miles or so to deliver it to its destination. The good news is that I may get my hands on an XT sooner than I thought, but on the other hand, I can only imagine the possible abuse that this practice invites...
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    You are right about the possible abuse...my dealer wanted to bring one in from the coast that had been sitting in a parking garage for 6 months. I refused to buy a car that I couldn't test drive... he told me that if I didn't like it when it came, I could stop the sale. But I didn't want to risk the negative experience. Later on I found out it already had 250 miles on it.

    John
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Man, now I'm afraid to drive the 5-speed in fear of making me lose interest in my 98 Forester S! After the auto test drive, I was still happy to row through my own gears on my 98 S. I have a feeling the XT will set me into turbo-envy. Raven won't like that.

    corkfish: Is the XT more fun than the WRX wagon? Well, it depends on what you define as fun. Stock-for-stock the XT will have more body roll than a WRX. However, the WRX 2.0T needs the revs to be kept above 3K to make use of the turbo. In a gross oversimplification, if you like to drive hard, the WRX is probably going to be more rewarding. The XT is a better fit for those who want more creature comfort and a balance between sport and practicality.

    pleiad7: I noticed you're up in Sonoma. When I went to Carlsen Subaru last week, the dealer showed me their shipment schedule and it looked like they were getting 5-speeds later this month. Stevens Creek has no 5-speeds at this point. My advice to you is to have the dealer secure you one in his future allocation if you can bear to wait 2 months. By going this route, you can configure the XT with the options you want and you can be assured it hasn't been driven by others. Typically this involves leaving a refundable deposit with the dealer. Carlsen and Santa Cruz Subaru does this. I believe Marin Subaru (probably closer to you) would do the same.

    Ken
  • pleiad7pleiad7 Member Posts: 59
    John - yikes, 250 miles on a brand new car! My current ride, a MY00 Outback Sport, had 110 miles on it when I bought it. Evidently, it had been test driven by everybody and their brother, but I went ahead and sealed the deal anyway, mostly because back then I didn't know any better...

    Ken - thanks for your input, I will see what my dealer comes up with on Monday and if it's worth taking the risk. My problem is that I'm really bad at delaying gratification, plus, if I wait another month or two, my Outback Sport will come due for registration renewal and 30,000 mile service...
  • rphillips2rphillips2 Member Posts: 40
    I just drove an auto and 5 spd XT. The auto was first and off the line acceleration was very good. However, when driving in traffic and wanting to accelerate quickly the automatic was slow to downshift. I am use to a Camry with a V6 automatic and that thing kicks down and goes right now when you mash the gas. The XT auto was a big disappointment compared to the Camry.

    Next up was the 5-spd. The first thing I noticed was how stiff the clutch is. I think that might get old in traffic, but I'm sure my leg would get stronger after using it for a while. I've driven a number of 5-spd's lately, and this was the stiffest next to a Mazdaspeed Protege.

    The acceleration was great! Immediate power as soon as the clutch is out. Almost no turbo lag. No problem passing anything.

    Handling is just ok. The tires squeal quickly when you try and pitch it into a hard right turn into a side street. When going in a straight line and quickly moving the wheel left to right the XT feels really loose compared to a Camry. I think most of the sway is due to the tires and not the suspension. I guess I really need a WRX wagon with the 2.5 turbo. Subaru are you listening?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I felt the same way about the 5 speed's acceleration. It almost feels like it has 20 more horses.

    I noted the tires could be better, also. Steering is quick, but there is more play than lower profile tires offer. 17"s would solve that, maybe fatter sway bars too.

    -juice
  • chassolchassol Member Posts: 95
    Folks the MPG is now at 21.7 combo city/highway. The power is still there and seems to be improving, there is no lag in the 30-50 50-70 range when you put your foot down (I admit I have been going to almost 6000 RPM getting on the Interstate no hesitation and 85-90 is there and it still climbing, but have to let off (speeding and breakin both in mind). This thing is a sleeper. I'm willing to bet the folks this model is quickly going to the hard to find list once word gets out on both MT and AT.

    rphillips2 - "Handling is just ok. The tires squeal quickly when you try and pitch it into a hard right turn into a side street. When going in a straight line and quickly moving the wheel left to right the XT feels really loose compared to a Camry. I think most of the sway is due to the tires and not the suspension." -
    I'm willing to bet the tires are over inflated. The one I test drove (as was mine when I picked it up) was as described. Make sure the front tires are 29 lbs and the rear 30-32 and then see if there is any difference in the ride. MINE had a big difference. OH, the folks at the dealership said they think there may be some interchangeability in the XT 2.5 and STi so far as parts (STi to XT) and do I hear the words HMMMM I wonder if this will work. As these guys play with their toys I let you know if anything interesting comes of it. ME - I'm only looking at small things to change and the big one to me is the K&N air filter. It made a difference in the 2002 VDC H6 and I really think it will more so in the XT......... Oh, BTW the parts manager says the 2.5 XT takes a different oil filter and he's ordered a case of them, I'm going to check again when he gets them, maybe Friday or for sure Monday. I'm afraid to use Fram & Purolator till I'm sure I'm getting the correct one............More later... I like the Automatic its seems to be one of the ones that "learns" your driving style and it seems to improve as the breakin miles go up.........
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    pleiad7 says, "Apparently it is common practice that dealers swap inventory among each other; it's all good, but it means that some peon may be driving the car 50 miles or so to deliver it to its destination. The good news is that I may get my hands on an XT sooner than I thought, but on the other hand, I can only imagine the possible abuse that this practice invites..."

    If they wouldn't let me take delivery of it directly from the other dealer's location, I wouldn't buy under those circumstances. I required my dealer to sign in writing that no one would drive mine except as absolutely necessary to ready it for delivery to me, and then only gently.

    - jack
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Ken writes, "the dealer showed me their shipment schedule and it looked like they were getting 5-speeds later this month. Stevens Creek has no 5-speeds at this point."

    I hoped mine might arrive this week, but no such luck. Meanwhile, I received a phone call from one of our other 6 Sube dealers last Monday saying he received a silver 5-speed, do I want to buy it? Unfortunately, that's the dealer that refused to go below MSRP, and I'm not interested at that price. I guess it's worth waiting one more week to save the $2,426 difference, but the wait is killing me!

    "have the dealer secure you one in his future allocation if you can bear to wait 2 months. By going this route, you can configure the XT with the options you want and you can be assured it hasn't been driven by others."

    Exactly what I did, and I like getting exactly what I want and nothing else, but it definitely seems to add to the delivery time.

    - jb
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    "Next up was the 5-spd. The first thing I noticed was how stiff the clutch is. I think that might get old in traffic, but I'm sure my leg would get stronger after using it for a while. I've driven a number of 5-spd's lately, and this was the stiffest next to a Mazdaspeed Protege."

    Within reason, I'm glad to hear this. If they beefed up the pressure plate, the clutch will last longer.

    - jb
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The 5-speed XT I drove didn't seem to have a heavy clutch. It seemed quite normal to me.

    Bob
  • krccrkkrccrk Member Posts: 36
    My 5-speed's clutch does seem to be a little heavier than that of my old 2001 forester. It does engage a lot quicker and it's hard to do fast smooth shifts. I'm considering taking into service or taking a test drive in another 5-speed for comparison.

    Ken
  • krccrkkrccrk Member Posts: 36
    The clutch engages pretty close to the top of the pedal's travel. It's hard to make a smooth shift into second while turning.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like the Automatic its seems to be one of the ones that "learns" your driving style and it seems to improve as the breakin miles go up

    That's very encouraging. We love the updates, please keep it up.

    My XT clutch also felt smooth and light, or at least no different than on my '98 Forester.

    -juice
  • forestergumpforestergump Member Posts: 119
    "I like the Automatic its seems to be one of the ones that "learns" your driving style and it seems to improve as the breakin miles go up."

    That seems to make sense to me. I would think that the ECU adjustments for the automatic would be more noticeable than those for the manual. Or am I incorrect in this assumption?
    -Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Oh no, I must have missed the fine print! VIP programs only allow you to purchase from stock, not to order? I joined ACA to take advantage of the VIP program and will be eligible come October.

    edit: Okay, I checked and here's what ACA has to say:

    "As part of the support that Subaru gives to the Association, ACA members are eligible for the Subaru VIP Partners Program. Save up to $3,000* off the manufacturers retail price – depending on model and equipment selected - on the purchase or lease of any new Subaru from participating dealers without haggling. Now that’s a member benefit! Plus, Subaru will make a special donation to the ACA Conservation Program for each new vehicle purchased by an ACA member.

    "To qualify, you must be an ACA member in good standing for at least six months prior to purchase. Please contact the ACA National Office BEFORE visiting your local Subaru dealer. We will verify your current status with Subaru who will then mail you the appropriate authorization form. Click here to register, or call the ACA at 703-451-0141 if you have questions.

    "(* From MSRP to dealer invoice. Limited time offer – subject to change without notice. Terms and conditions apply.)"

    I don't see anything in here about having to purchase from dealer stock.

    Ed
  • pleiad7pleiad7 Member Posts: 59
    Ed - IMBA says it's up to the dealer's individual discretion which vehicles they make available for VIP invoice pricing. Officially, only the WRX STi is completely excluded from the program; however, my dealer has only one XT on the lot so far and doesn't want to let it go below MSRP. That's somewhat understandable and I don't really have a problem with it, since it didn't come with the desired options configuration and color anyway. He said that he will be able to sell one to me at invoice as soon as they have 5 or 6 of them on the lot, or he could try to acquire one from another dealer's lot.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    That's a relief I guess. Again since it'll likely be October before I'm eligible - and even then I may not be ready to buy - initial demand should have been satisfied.

    Ed
  • beanboybeanboy Member Posts: 442
    Are making it tougher to decide between the WRX wagon and XT Forester!

    Going to swing on by the dealer this weekend and see if I can get a test drive in. Still, a test drive for 10 minutes isn't going to be enough.

    Keept those reviews coming!

    -B
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    getting the lower mpg explained. Noticeable acceleration off the line explains right now why the mpg is lower. We have boost kicking in well below 3000 rpm (normal range). Note, the turbo does not affect the WRX as much because it doesn't kick in at low range.

    John
  • krccrkkrccrk Member Posts: 36
    My boost guage shows negative boost most of the time for just normal in-town driving in moderate traffic. Maybe the actual mpg won't be bad at all.

    Ken
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    jack: I think you're doing the right thing by waiting for an XT on allocation. I would do the same.

    John: Maybe those EPA testers just loved having the XT boost kick in and drove the MPG numbers down!

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forgot the mention this. The 5 speed did not have the boost gauge, but the auto I drove did.

    Any how, it completely blocks the view of the temp and fuel gauges. They really need to find a better place to put it.

    This is a minor complaint, mind you, especially since it's just an option. But I like turbo boost gauges and I would pass on this one.

    -juice
  • forestergumpforestergump Member Posts: 119
    Since the turbo boost gauge is mounted on the steering column, doesn't any obstruction it causes depend on how you have the wheel positioned? Or is the gauge positioned on the stationary portion of the steering column?
    -Bob
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    once_and_for_all wrote, "I think we are getting the lower mpg explained. Noticeable acceleration off the line explains right now why the mpg is lower. We have boost kicking in well below 3000 rpm (normal range). Note, the turbo does not affect the WRX as much because it doesn't kick in at low range."

    The MPG debate (so far) has centered around the XT's mediocre EPA ratings (mainly because hardly anyone has compiled enough real-world numbers to evaluate yet). Your point would certainly be valid for an XT being driven hard, meaning that the XT's potent acceleration capability is actually being used. However, I don't believe the standardized EPA testing (which is tightly programmed and controlled to uniformly model typical everyday driving) would ever call on an XT to come anywhere near strong acceleration, either in the city cycle or the highway cycle. If the XT completes the EPA tests without ever needing to produce enough power to get into the boost range, then we still are left with the mystery: Why did the XT, with all of its important new technology that ought to enhance fuel efficiency (variable valve timing, electronic throttle control) do so poorly on the EPA testing?

    - jack
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    krccrk very helpfully says, "My boost guage shows negative boost most of the time for just normal in-town driving in moderate traffic. Maybe the actual mpg won't be bad at all."

    Thanks very much for this useful information. It confirms what I've been saying: In moderate driving, the XT will rarely if ever get into the high-fuel-flow boost phase. That almost surely would also have been true during EPA testing. Therefore, the true reason for the XT's disappointing EPA ratings (much lower than a WRX, and even lower than the 300BHP STi!) remain a mystery.

    - jack
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    "John: Maybe those EPA testers just loved having the XT boost kick in and drove the MPG numbers down! Ken"

    On a dyno? I can see overdoing it on the road, experiencing the actual acceleration sensation, but it seems that something would be lost sitting on a stationary dyno...

    Also - are vehicles undergoing EPA testing actually operated by humans, or is a computer operating the throttle? I would have assumed the latter, in order to make the results more standardized and comparable.

    - jack
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Ken placates me by saying, "jack: I think you're doing the right thing by waiting for an XT on allocation. I would do the same."

    I suppose. But I've now been telephoned by TWO dealers in my area who have 5-speed XTs sitting there, waiting to be bought. First, last Monday, a silver one; today a red one arrived. My dealer is supposed to be the highest-volume Subaru dealer in the Pacific Northwest; I can't figure out why he will evidently be the last one to get a silver 5-speed!- jb
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    "It completely blocks the view of the temp and fuel gauges. They really need to find a better place to put it."

    This makes me very unhappy. Every picture of the gauge I've seen was on WRXs, and it was always installed on the right side of the column. In that position, all it might block would be the low end of the tach and perhaps the unused redline area' the important top half of the tach would be unobstructed. But after seeing photos of the gauge installed on XTs (on the left side instead of the right), I asked about obstruction and was assured by a Subaru dealer rep in another forum (who actually had received an XT with the boost gauge), that it didn't block the fuel or temp gauges at all. I didn't see how that would be possible, but took her at her word. I certainly hope it's possible without too much difficulty to reposition the gauge on the right side.

    "This is a minor complaint, mind you, especially since it's just an option. But I like turbo boost gauges and I would pass on this one."

    If the gauge can't be relocated to the right side and really does block the lower part of the fuel gauge (approaching empty), I'd put that a bit higher than a minor issue. Grrrrr.

    forestergump says "Since the turbo boost gauge is mounted on the steering column, doesn't any obstruction it causes depend on how you have the wheel positioned? Or is the gauge positioned on the stationary portion of the steering column?"

    The gauge installs forward of the steering wheel, on the fixed part of the column.

    - jb
  • SteveSatchSteveSatch Member Posts: 20
    I have a '98 Outback limited with auto trans that I bought in the summer of '97. It has about 65,000 miles on it and runs great. I've had no problems with it and my only complaint is the lack of power. I think I made a mistake getting the auto trans. Oh well. Anyway I want something with more power and I'm sure I'll get a manual trans (I just hope I haven't forgot how to drive one in the last six years!). Should I get a turbo Forester or wait for a more powerful Outback? How much smaller is the current Forester than an older Outback? I'm a bit worried about that. Driving my Outback daily makes me feel like it isn't big and I wouldn't want to go smaller. My kids are 6 and 3, but most of the family trips are in her mini van. This would be a daily driver but would need ample room for kids in back. I fear the leg room isn't enough since I put the driver's seat all the way back. When I bought my Outback the Forester just came out and I got in the rear seat and I was not impressed with the leg room-but that was six years ago and it may be different now. I'm also not sure about cargo room.....But the price is right and it's here now. I've heard the next Outback might have a 3.0 250 HP non turbo engine in a lighter car than the current Outback. Will there be a turbo Outback? Any thoughts on how a non turbo Outback would do performance wise against the turbo Forester? I tend to think a bigger engine Outback would cost at least several thousand more than a turbo Forester. The price of the turbo Forester, the performance one gets for the $, and maybe having just enough room makes it looks real nice. It sounds like the perfect little bit of everything car.
    Satch
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    just what is "negative" boost anyway, are we talking a vacuum reading? The turbo can be applying "boost" in the sense that the vacuum readings aren't as negative as the NA engine at the same throttle position. End result: more fuel consumption. Although, I am thinking of it in terms of a normal carburator. The fuel injection may be tied into the pedal postion, not the vacuum readings. Too complex to speculate. We need a real subie tech to jump on the subject. On a practical side, so far we have been hearing mpg ratings similar to the EPA numbers.

    John
  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    to change the discussion name.
    HOST...the new name , my suggestion:

    Forester XT: smoke 'em if you got 'em!

    Mark
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    John: The turbo gauge is really a manifold vacuum gauge. I believe a "negative" reading can still be had with the turbo running so you're right -- it'll probably show less negative pressure compared to a NA engine.

    Jack: A lot of WRX owners have installed Defi gauges instead of the stock one. The stock gauge uses MPa units where as the Defi displays psi.

    Ken
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    SteveSatch says, "When I bought my Outback the Forester just came out and I got in the rear seat and I was not impressed with the leg room-but that was six years ago and it may be different now."

    I'd like to tell you it's a lot better, but...
    The 2nd generation Foresters ('03-on) are claimed to have approximately an inch more backseat kneeroom. It's still very tight back there if, as you say, you need the front seat all the way back. You can improve the rear situation a bit by adjusting the driver's seat higher vertically (because that raises the angled seatback straight up); at the maximum height setting, things in back aren't quite so tight. This works OK if you don't have the sunroof; otherwise, headroom becomes an issue.

    The Forester would be considerably improved (in my opinion) if the wheelbase (but not the overall length) was lengthened by about 2", with the entire increase plugged into the rear doors and backseat kneeroom. This would (by moving the backseat rearward) sacrifice about 1 cu.ft of rear cargo area with the seats up, but none with the seat folded.
    - jack
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    My dealer just phoned. My silver 5-speed was just unloaded from the truck. I'm headed his way to see it. Unfortunately, they only do delivery preps on weekdays, so I can't actually get it until Monday! Grrrrr.

    - jack
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I could not see the fuel guage unless I leaned forward. Keep in mind it was near empty, but then that's the most important area to read if you think about it.

    18/23 is nothing to right home about, but let's put this into perspective. I think maybe our expectations were way too high. Let's compare.

    The Vue V6/auto gets 19/25, but with just 181hp and 195 lb-ft, and it feels slower than the non-turbo Forester. Plus it's AWD is part-time.

    The new 3.5l V6 Santa Fe is much worse than the XT, I forget exactly but it's closer to 15/20 or so, and I bet the XT will still outrun it.

    OK, the STi is better, but it's more aerodynamic, and the wimps at the EPA are light foots that probably never pass 3500 rpm, so the boost hardly ever comes into play. In fact the light pressure turbo's tuning would mean the XT would be using more of its power on the EPA dyno than the STi would.

    Real world, do you really think an STi will get better mileage? Anyone wanna bet?

    -juice
  • jason_elsjason_els Member Posts: 57
    What about the performance gauge pack? Could that be installed instead? I recall it does include the same gauge as for the turbo. I don't see why it wouldn't work.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    To go with the black automatic XT my dealer received about 10 days ago, Friday evening he received four more: A gold automatic, two silver automatics, and my silver 5-speed. I dropped everything to go give it a quick once-over, making certain I noted the odometer reading. It shows 2.2 miles, and it better not have more than about 3 at delivery, or I'm gonna wonder who was doing what.

    I sat in the driver's seat and noted that the boost gauge does block the lower third of the fuel and temp gauges. However, the steering column has tilt adjustment, and the gauge moves up and down with the wheel. I didn't have time to fiddle, but I'm guessing that if the wheel is dropped as low as possible (a low wheel is my preference anyway) without interfering with legs and without blocking vision of the speedo and tach, then perhaps the boost gauge location will be OK. If not, I'll have to see whether it can be moved to the right of the column.

    This dealer's policy is to allow charging up to $5,000 on plastic. My wife will avail herself of that to get airline miles on her Visa account. I don't know how much that's worth, but it's gotta recover some portion of the $100 over invoice that I'm paying for the XT.

    I can't tell you how hard it was to walk away and leave the car sitting there in the rain for an entire weekend...

    - jack
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    jason writes, "What about the performance gauge pack? Could that be installed instead? I recall it does include the same gauge as for the turbo. I don't see why it wouldn't work."

    There is a photo of the 3-gauge performance gauge pack in the '03 Forester brochure, but so far I haven't found any reference to it on the option lists for the XT. In addition, the illustration of that pack has a pure vacuum gauge instead of a boost gauge (which is what you get with that pack on a WRX). I'm sure Subaru will get that sorted out - but the other consideration is that the performance gauge pack costs triple the price of the column-mount boost gauge, and the latter is all I needed.

    - jb
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    jack,

    That's great! I hope you can get some sleep this weekend.

    I look forward to the report on Monday!

    Ken
  • chassolchassol Member Posts: 95
    Don't ask why cause I don't know, but the XT takes a new oil filter - "Bulletin No. PT120103
    Oil Filter Please be advise that there is a new oil filter, part number 15208AA080, that applies to the 2004 MY Turbo Baja and MY Turbo Forester models. This new filter, 15208AA080, is smaller in size (68mm) than the current filter used on non-turbo models, part number 15208AA060 (80mm).

    The current (larger) filter used on non-turbo models (15208AA060) should not be used on 2004 MY Turbo Baja or 2004 MY Turbo Forester.

    The oil filter that should be used on 2004 MY Turbo Baja or 2004 MY Turbo Forester models is 15208AA080)."

    As many times as they repeat this information I really think they mean it. My dealer ordered a case of them late last week. I was going to change oil and filter this weekend, but couldn't because I don't know the cross reference for the Fram or Purolator (checking both websites no help either).
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Chassol says, "This new filter, 15208AA080, is smaller in size (68mm) than the current filter used on non-turbo models, part number 15208AA060 (80mm)."

    Weird. I wonder if the significantly smaller size says anything about the filtration capacity. You'd think the XT would require more filtration, not less.

    - jb
  • chassolchassol Member Posts: 95
    And to make things even more interesting this filter is NOT the same one that goes on the 2004 WRX STi - go figure...........
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let me take one step back and ask, is the XT engine still an EJ25 series?

    -juice
  • chassolchassol Member Posts: 95
    Should I get a turbo Forester or wait for a more powerful Outback?

    Steve - IMHO the 2005 Outback will probably have a turbo 3.0H and I think the price will probably be $2000-$4000 more than the Forester (now or later). It's your call and I agree the rear leg room can be tight in the Forester, even with adjusting the front seatbacks in an almost straight upright position. So far as room the Outback - it has been and will probably continue to be roomier rear seat and have more cargo space (wagon).

    We have the 2002 Outback Sedan VDC and the 2004 XT Forester - the XT is hands down faster than the VDC and power curve is better (turbo w/235 lb foot is better than VDC w/217 lb foot) lower mid and upper range. The power curve is no let up from the get go to at least 95mph (I'm over the recommended 1,000 mile breakin). I'm not going to be a speed demon, but the passing power is great to have when you want (need) it.

    I am still betting this XT is going to be found as quite a little sleeper in the next 3-4 months once enough people drive them and talk about them.

    So far as now or later. I'd choose the XT now, but remember I have one and I really love it........
  • chassolchassol Member Posts: 95
    Page 12-3 owners manual 2004 Forester
    "EJ251" is the non-turbo (SOHC) engine and "EJ255" is the turbo (DOHC) engine.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    chassol wrote, "Steve - IMHO the 2005 Outback will probably have a turbo 3.0H and I think the price will probably be $2000-$4000 more than the Forester (now or later)."

    Nearly everyone who guessed at the XT price prior to announcement guessed high, and maybe I'm falling into the same trap - but with Subaru's stated intent to move upmarket, I think any turbo 6-cyl Legacy with typical equipment will be MSR priced in the mid-$30K range (i.e. 7 or 8 thou more than a Forester XT). It might be possible to get the Legacy with a turbo 4 at or near $30, but I don't think you'll get the turbo 6 at that level. I'm not saying the Legacy turbo-4 and turbo-6 cars won't be worth these prices, just that I don't expect them to come in significantly under them.

    - jack
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