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2013 EXL 2WD without Nav
$24, 500
add 3% tax
freight
doc
assessories, mudguards and a few other things
Final price $27, 640 OTD
She also quoted:
2013 EXL 2WD with Nav
$25, 965 selling price + tax and the other items listed above
Final Price $29 086 OTD
Are these quotes in the ballpark??
EXL 2wd $25860
EXL with Navi 2wd $27264
Doc fees $600
april showers brings may flowers
+22,840 sale price incl. destn.
-500 discount since we financed with AFHC
+199 dealer process fee
+ 91 Tags/title (to be registered in PA)
+ 1370 (6% PA Sales Tax)
Total OTD Price = 24,000
The transaction was not as smooth as we expected since they did not have the color we wanted (Mountain Air Metallic) even though they promised us that they have it on their lot. We had to compromise and get the Twilight Blue.
Thanks to everyone on this forum for their help. Car buying is not fun. Thank God we only have to do it once every few years.
I'm guessing they applied 500/750 flex cash for financing your car.
Even then 24k OTD seems like a solid deal.
Oh I also shot an email over to Chris as a backup plan.
I chose to buy my CR-V at Ourisman Honda in Bethesda. The salesman sent me a very good price via email, and it is one block from my office. If you shop there, the salesman was very respectful, but the other financial staff are sharks. More on that later.
The price quoted via email for the CR-V EX-L without Navigation was $25,895. According to the dealership's online inventory, there were several autos in stock, all listed online at the same MSRP. However, when I was at the dealership, I learned that all but one of the EX-Ls were equipped an added "Dealership Protection Package," full of extras that I would never pay for, like stripes on the side of the car and wheel locks. They were charging $995 for this package, but I managed to get the sales people to remove the charge, partially by using that mysterious $750 Honda rebate that other users have mentioned on this forum. However, I notice on my invoice that I paid tax on it .
I added the protective coating package, which was approx $1000 (I didn't receive an itemized bill of sale), because I don't have a garage, and I want to do what I can to protect the exterior.
I was charged tax on the dealer's delivery and processing charges, which doesn't seem right to me. Have others had a similar experience?
The financial sharks managed to sell me an extended warranty, but then when I read it at home, I saw that there was a deductible that wasn't disclosed during the sale. Plus, the amount added to my monthly payment was not truthfully disclosed. I went back the next day to cancel the extended warranty, and the shark put additional pressure on me to keep it. Offered to remove the deductible. When I insisted that it be cancelled, he said that they could only take the charge off the last months of the loan, and that the change wouldn't show up in my account for several months.
Here's what my new car cost:
CR-V EX-L Red w/ grey leather interior: 25,895
Delivery charge: 830
Dealer processing charge: 200
Protective coating 1,000 (approx)
Tax 1,722
Registration/Title 287
OUT THE DOOR AT $29,934
I visited Ourisman once and ran into the $995 package of useless stuff they kindly add to seemingly every vehicle. I ran away and will never go back.
Of course the price dealers provide over the internet is rarely the best price but it, at least, allows a buyer to judge a dealer's overall pricing philosophy. I have found dealers who provide good pricing upfront are less likely to resort to tricks and are more transparent about pricing than those who refuse to provide such pricing. Personally, I avoid any dealer who will not provide a price in response to an internet inquiry.
One thousand dollars for what is essentially wax with a fancy name is a dubious expense. Today's manufacturing processes provide great paint protection which really only requires a good paste wax or such every six months or so. My bet is the dealer made $700 to $800 profit out of that $1,000. Of course the dealer will point to the so-called insurance which comes with the products. However, most likely no person has ever truly benefited from such insurance, too much small print.
Unfortunately for the buyer, that particular F&I product is not refundable as it is now part of the vehicle, a hard product. F&I managers love such products as they will not usually see a charge back since the customer cannot cancel.
Extended warranties are soft F&I products. They can be cancelled and the F&I folks will see a charge back, which impacts their pay. That is why they dislike having customers cancel such soft products.
To avoid this problem check the Dealers web sites and inventory before calling to inquire or to buy. Send emails out to several dealerships for a E price quote to get a feel of pricing in your area.. At the end of the month Call or visit these dealerships the last 2 days of any month for the sale.
If your buyers Order/ Bill of Sale is written up Signed and paid for by the end of the month it counts for that months sale.. Vehicle does not have to be there.
90 % of times i will have the buyers order faxed to me at my house on the last day of the month.. I then pick up the vehicle when dealers has prepped car and its ready for P/U. I am loyal to no dealership . My motto has always been best price closest to my house gets my business.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Dealers in my area are a little more hungry this month. The best prices are now improved $500+ dollars on the CR-V quotes I received last month. Very tempting....
I do not intend to keep the vehicle for more than 2-3 years.
Please share the details of your quote/purchase.... (Base+ Destination Fee +Documentation Fee, Applicable Tax, Title/Tags+ others, etc) so that we can compare the quotes.
Also, please do share the name of the dealership in Virginia where you got this deal. $23k OTD is great price , the best I have received is $24k OTD from "College Park Honda" in MD.
same sorta thing at hamilton in jersey. $449+7%tax pro-pack (wheel locks, mudguards, cargo tray)
about 150 total or less from other dealers shipped over the web and probly less on ebay
when you gotta walk you gotta walk
249 doc + 449 propack doesent get the deal done at hamilton honda for me
I bought it from Hendrick Honda Woodbridge, VA.
I finalized everything on the phone and even paid $ 500 down by credit card on the phone. They did something called express checkout. I was out in 90 minutes including a final test drive of the vehicle I was getting.
Amusingly the sales manager, a real sleeze IMHO, mentioned he would be happy to get one for me. Of course it would cost an additional $1,000. I quickly asked why he thought I would pay an additional $1,000 for a vehicle I knew was in inventory at several other local Honda dealers. He sort of smiled but really did not say much. Any opportunity for an additional buck I suppose.
I wonder how many times such games actually work?
After we negotatiated the price of the vehicle, I was hit with a $600 documentation fee. I responded to the sales lady that was unacceptable and I would only pay $100. I also told her I understood the sales contract had to show the $600 so as to avoid potential discrimination suits for the dealer. I requested they reduce the sales price to compensate or I would walk. Without much hoopla, they quickly reduced the price.
People really need to understand the documentation fee charged by any dealer is essentially profit. That fee must be added to the price of the vehicle to arrive at the true selling price.
Any argument made by a dealer that the fee covers unusual costs is inaccurate. All dealer costs are included in the selling price of the vehicle. The price of any product includes the cost plus profit, that is basic cost accounting. Separating the price and the documentation fee is intended solely to deceive a buyer into thinking they got a better deal.
NIce post.......... Doc fee's are.... BS'.... just another way dealers make a few more dollars. If you buy a car for 500 below invoice price and you pay 300 in dealer doc fees that means the dealer really sold you the car for 200 below invoice. Dont let them sucker you.
Always know the dealerships doc fees before you make that dealership your offer price to buy. If the dealership will not remove his high doc fees i simply add them onto my offer price to counter not paying them.
Doc fees of 75, maybe 100 are ok if your getting a good deal but not 200 to 700 dollars added onto that sale price , dispute and fight these charges tell dealers its a deal breaker.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
A good source for car sales is prepared by a long time Toyota Dealer in Florida. And, as we all know, car dealers in Florida have perfected this art of deception to an advaned level.
To disseminate this information he apparently has a radio program and a web site Earl Stewart On Cars which has a wonderful amount of information. Apparently other car dealers in Florida are not happy with Mr. Stewart. Of course, we customers are very happy.
His revelations regarding automobile dealer fees include.
Dealers always call such fees by obscure names to confuse customers.
Dealers always try to include the word fee in the name as it suggests someting legal, which it is not.
Dealers charge such fees solely to increase profits in a manner that is not noticed by the customer.
Dealers can price a vehicle below MSRP or cost and end up making a huge profit via the various dealer fees
Anyone buying a vehicle should take a look at the informatoin available at the On Cars web site. Since it comes from an actual car dealer it is quite enlightening.
F&I folks all over the country are asking how they can achieve such success and there are plenty of folks advising them how.
Now really, how many customers would willingly hand the guy or gal lurking behind the F&I door $1,300 after they spent hours fighting with the sales person about the sales price?
And how much of this $1,300 profit was achieved via deception?
One of the concerns causing much consternation among F&I folks is the dealer practice of adding to the actual finance rate for which a customer qualifies. This is the practice where a bank will qualify the customer at two percent and the kindly F&I person will bump the rate to something higher. This is known as dealer reserve. In such cases, the dealer realizes part of the increased financing costs as profit.
Clearly this is deception.
I should probably thank the other person as I likely pay less for the vehicle due to their willingness to contribute so much to the dealer's bottom line.
The last 2 days of any month is where you will get the dealers best pricing due to sales incentives that dealerships need to make. Never buy any car before the end of the month you wont get the dealers best price. the 1st 3 weeks are for Research emailing /visiting dealerships /getting e-quotes etc. making all dealerships contacted know that your buying at months end for your xxx price. The more dealerships you get involved the better you will do with getting a good price. You have to play the game with these guys..
Here is the starting formula to arrive at price. The suggest dealers MSRP and Invoice price are numbers made up by car manufacturers. We always start with Invoice price. Throw away that msrp number it means nothing. Its there to deceive you. i believe the invoice price is really not the true cost of the vehicle.... but we have no way of really finding out but to take the word of web sites like KBB, consumer reports , edmunds, etc.
you take:
Invoice price of xxx
Minus dealer Hold-back
Minus any rebates or cash Incentives
Minus dealers doc fee's/ unless he will remove them off bill of sale.
total cost of vehicle
Add taxes and DMV fee's for your OTD price
Always say no to anything the dealer is selling along with his extended warranty.
You should always get pre approved by outside financing before buying a car making the dealer beat your best finance rate.
If you do these easy things you will always get a good new car price and not get ripped off by car dealerships....
Dealers will receive more company cash sale incentives as the year winds down so if you were to buy a 2013 in july or august you might save up to another 1500 dollars off this formula.
The key factor in getting dealers best pricing is buying at any months end/ getting many dealerships involved.. Using that buyers formula.
Good luck
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Buyer Beware.
College park Honda will play games. Thats why i tell everyone................... End of the month is when you start your buying process. Most dealership are looking to make as much money off the Sucker buyers and this is how they play. The smart buyer waits til the end of the Month asking several dealerships to meet his asking price for the sale that day.There is no reason to go into any dealership unless your signing paper work or doing research on that vehicle.. DO the brunt of the work//get your price by phone negotiations with the internet manager. If any dealer cant give you a yes or no on your pricing hang up and move on to the next Herb dealership. You do to them what they do to us. Pit one dealer against the next. Lie to them like they do to you. I always like to tell dealerships that are closest to me that there are 10 dealers at this price.... match or beat for the sale today. You have to play the game.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I wanted to know if getting the Honda extended warranty is worth it and what others have paid to ensure my dealer is not ripping me off on the extended warranty.
Thanks
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Here's 3 online dealers you can get quotes from -- I would go for $0 deductible plans
http://www.saccuccihondacare.com/
http://www.hyannishondacare.com/
http://www.bernardiservicecontracts.com/
$1600 is too much since you can get it cheaper from those online dealers -- you can cancel yours, but if you want to sign up again from those online dealers then you might have to pay a small fee (contact one of those dealers to see how much the fee is)
If you normally get repairs done at shops and want to play it safe then the extended warranty from those online dealers might be worth it (not worth $1600 that you paid). If you're able to do few repairs on your own then you're probably better off risking it -- if something small comes up then you can fix it on your own and if something big comes up then you can just take it to an independent shop after the factory warranty expires (3yr/36k mi bumper to bumper & 5yr/60k mi powertrain)
EX... fwd....or awd ..... 2 diff/ prices.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Good luck
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
One other consideration is to check Edmund's forums and other car pricing web sites like True Car to make sure their pricing is higher than the price you compute. If not, there is likely a hidden dealer incentive.
When shopping for a vehicle, contact as many dealers as you can via the internet. Ask for a price. You will quickly identify those dealers who understand the internet shopper as someone who is knowlegable. Best to avoid those dealers who refuse to provide a price or ask you to drop in for a discussion. It is far more likely such dealers will resort to the old selling games. While sparring with a sales person can be found, it is time consuming.
Recently bought a new Ford. Contacted about eight dealers. Five or six responded by telling me there were many incentives available which they would be happy to discuss. They did not provide a price. A couple did provide a price which was very attractive, not far from the price I computed using your method. Visited one of the dealers and reached an agreement within an hour.
Funny, several of the other dealers continue to contact me. With all this effort, perhaps had they provided a price in response to my request they may have had my business.
I agree with almost all your message on buying/ method.
The msrp and invoice price are made up by the car companies. You could throw away the msrp list price thats useless to us. The so called dealers invoice price most likely is not the real number the dealer is paying. At invoice price i believe there is still profit being made off that number. How much nobody knows. All we have are web sites like Edmunds , Consumer reports , kelly blue book etc. to go by. There have been many years i have purchased a new vehicle for family/ friends or myself that had NO Incentives / New model, beggining of the year for hundreds/ thousands of dollars below the dealers invoice price and hold-back . Thats how i know that invoice price is a made up number so dealers can make a few more dollars.. And they certainly do off alot of buyers..
By contacting many dealerships by email / phone is how you could determine the market price in many area's and different states.
i have been telling people in these forums since Edmunds started up these forums in 1998...... how and when to buy.
The internet has hurt the car industry. people can find out pricing in 1 hour from hundreds of dealerships spaning tru several states.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE