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2013 and earlier-Honda CR-V Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • brianjandreaubrianjandreau Member Posts: 67
    You should reread my message.

    For a Honda CRV EXL:
    MSRP: $26595
    Invoice: $24637
    Holdback: $780
    Inovice - Holdback: $23857
    I paid... $24837

    $24837 (what I paid) - $23857 (Invoice - Holdback) = $980 (what dealer made in profit)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    for the umpteenth time, holdback does NOT fall to the bottom line as profit!

    Even so, it's the market that determines pricing, not what some shopper thinks is "fair".

    We don't have bunches of CRV's to sell, please try to understand that. It's frustrating!
  • brianjandreaubrianjandreau Member Posts: 67
    hyland and isellhondas,

    If you take the holdback out of the equation as isellhondas suggests, then the dealer made $200 profit off my sale. According to what hyland told me I should do, the dealer would have made an additional $20 (hyland said I should offer $220 over invoice).

    24637 (invoice) + $200 = 24837 (what I paid)

    Granted, $20 isn't that big of a deal, but...

    I understand isellhondas frustration, because of his messages, that shoppers think the dealer gets the holdback as profit when they need to use some of that money for overhead expeneses, etc. However, I think people are using the word "profit" in this case to mean anything above what the dealership pays to Honda for the car. Also, for a long time, people have generally viewed the car-buying experience as secretive (the fact that there is a holdback at all is evidence of this). If all dealerships were upfront about costs and profit margins, then I'm not sure the misunderstanding about holdback would exist.

    Obviously, dealerships and sales people should profit; they need to make a living just like everyone else. I want a fair deal too though.

    Brian
  • phisherphisher Member Posts: 175
    If holdback is a rebate of sorts as I understand. Wouldn't that be considered profit? Just maybe not for the salesperson.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I have explained what holdback is and how it works so many times I'm not going to do it again.

    One of the most respected consumer magazines suggests taking the invoice, deducting holdback and offereing something like 2% over that amount on ANY car.

    People read this, believe it and get very frustrated whan we turn these offers down.

    I wish that magazine would stick to testing toasters instead of trying to educate people on how to buy cars!
  • phisherphisher Member Posts: 175
    Holdback is profit. You can call it what you want, but it is $ that the dealership gets at some point. Or are you saying that consumer reports and Mark Eskeldson in his book "what car dealer don't want you to know" are incorrect and people should believe you. I'm not saying that this is what you should pay for a car just that this helps figure the true cost to the dealer + any interest for calculation purposes.
  • uvakimuvakim Member Posts: 13
    I've seen posts from the Northern VA/MD/DC area, but nothing from Southeastern Virginia (Virginia Beach, Norfolk, etc.). I'm very torn right now about how to proceed with buying a CR-V (and may even look at another vehicle because it's a better deal).

    I'm curious about what people are paying down here - TMV indicates that it is close to MSRP, which is more than I want to pay. I'd drive up to three hours away to get a good deal, though.

    I want a glacier blue metallic EX-L with navigation, which I can't seem to find anywhere. Should I order one (and sacrifice my ability to negotiate, I assume) or wait? I would like to purchase by the spring.

    I'm also torn because with 0.9% financing on the Honda Pilot (and deals due to upcoming redesign), it's not too different in price from the CR-V. But, I realize they are very different vehicles. We already have a Pilot and love it. I just hate thinking that I'm paying too much for the CR-V.
  • brianjandreaubrianjandreau Member Posts: 67
    It doesn't really matter what the holdback is for. The bottom line is each dealer can sell each car for what he or she wants to. I wanted an 07 CRV EXL, and I found a dealership who was willing to sell it at $200 over invoice or $980 over invoice and holdback. They didn't have to sell it for that price, but they did. I didn't have to buy it for that price, but I did. By the way, they just called to say I could take delivery on Monday.

    On the last day of December 2006, my mother bought a Civic for dealer cost. I don't know exactly why they were willing to sell it for nothing (assuming there is no other hidden way to make profit as isellhondas suggests), but they did.

    Right now, I can get a Pilot EXL for 28500 + 3.9 financing for 60 months, which is under invoice and holdback according to CR, from a local dealer. Do you mean to tell me that they're willing to take a loss on that car? Perhaps they are. The point is that prices are driven by the market, and dealerships are about to go out of business for selling are car at "invoice."

    As a consumer, knowing that there is such a thing as a holdback and knowing approximately what it is, gives me a fighting chance at negotiating a fair deal. As I said before, if dealers weren't so secretive, then we wouldn't even need to have this forum.

    But, it does make for good sport!
  • babycutecutebabycutecute Member Posts: 17
    Go to Northern Virgina, or better yet Maryland if you don't mind doing the inspection and titling yourself. My friend did that and save $2500 on her car. Not a Honda but you see the point. The Hampton Roads area is monopolized by 3-4 dealers and with little competition, they don't really deal.
  • torodieseltorodiesel Member Posts: 16
    also, don't forget about the money that dealerships get for reaching sales goals (monthly, quarterly, and yearly)!! So don't tell me that dealerships don't make any profit on the deal! I understand you need to make money to pay utility bills, salaries, health care, etc., but don't cry me a river or get so "frustrated" that you are not making any money. There are plenty of fools out there that pay way more than an educated buyer will. And that is why forums like this exist so that people can educate themselves. ;)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    No, I am "frustrated" over the number of customers who want to buy CRV's that we don't have to sell them.

    There are certainly no "sales goals" hidden mpney on CRV's either!

    All I am saying is what a dealer pays for a car means nothing. Cars sell for what the market dictates.
  • brianjandreaubrianjandreau Member Posts: 67
    To be clear, you said you were frustrated about having to explain again what a holdback was in response to the conversation hyland and I were having about the profit that was made on my purchase.

    Today, no body said anything about wanting to buy CRVs that you don't have to sell them.
  • nearmspnearmsp Member Posts: 90
    Then how would cars sell at invoice or even below invoice unless there is hidden money coming in through bonuses for exceeding quarterly/yearly targets.

    Are sales people paid on commmissions or just straight salary? Some sales people do more deals - that is accept lower prices, so do they get less commission for each vehicle that they sell. I notice within a dealership some are keen to sell and others not. Even when you enter a dealership some just head straight for the customer while others are just sitting on their tables.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Oh, that happens sometimes but not on a brand new model with high demand. There would be no reason to do that.

    Most car salespeople are paid on straight commission.

    Some places pounce on every customer and other places are more laid back or maybe they sized up the customer and didn't want to deal with them?
  • banjolaya1banjolaya1 Member Posts: 88
    BTW, Red Socks fan,
    How do you like the new (re-faced) "CITGO" sign on that building right next to Fenway Park? I didn't mean to bragg but I drew the baby with my own hands...
  • snoopy21snoopy21 Member Posts: 114
    Then how would cars sell at invoice or even below invoice unless there is hidden money coming in?

    i'm sure dealerships look at all the sales as a whole, with certain models contributing more to the bottom line than others. i'm also sure there are certain slow-selling cars sitting on the dealers' lots they want to move just to get rid of the associated carrying costs (financing, insurance, etc.) off their books.

    Some sales people do more deals - that is accept lower prices, so do they get less commission

    it's not the sales people that do the deals...these days, that stuff is all turned over to the finance manager

    I notice within a dealership some are keen to sell and others not. Even when you enter a dealership some just head straight for the customer while others are just sitting on their tables.

    i think they rotate and take turns.
  • hondaguy67hondaguy67 Member Posts: 66
    Holdback is not profit. It is money that the dealer gets from the manufacturer but the dealership has massive expenses. At my dealership it costs over 400k per month just to keep the doors open. now at a net profit of lets say 500 per car try and figure out how many cars we would have to sell to stay in business??????

    forget about holdback, that is the dealers cash for bills etc.
  • hondaguy67hondaguy67 Member Posts: 66
    the only way consumers can even buy a car at invoice is because of the holdback. if it were not for the holdback all of you would be paying at least 3% more for your vehicles.
    my advice to you is to work your price from invoice and forget holdback even exists
  • brianjandreaubrianjandreau Member Posts: 67
    hondaguy67,

    I think you're right, except that I don't believe I would have gotten the deal I got ($200 over invoice) if I hadn't first made an offer of below invoice. And I never would have thought to make the first offer below invoice if I didn't know about the holdback.

    After a dealer said no to my first offer, we agreed that $1000 over what the vehicle cost them was fair, but this conversation would have never happend had I not first made the offer I did.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Our store would happily write a check to the store where you bought your CRV for each and every CRV he would sell us for 200.00 over invoice. These must be really distressed merchandise in your part of the country!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, holdback ***helps*** pay for some of the expenses. It falls far short!

    People don't care about our overhead and I don't want them to care. I just get tired of hearing about how holdback is pure profit.
  • bmwguy23bmwguy23 Member Posts: 43
    isellhondas,

    I agree with a lot of what you say...I think a dealer can sell a car for whatever he wants or the market will dictate...if the car is hot the dealer would be stupid to give up whatever profit he can make on limited supply.

    People that think they are owed a near invoice sales price on a hot new vehicle like the CRV are high.

    The guy that got a deal of $200 over invoice must be in an area of the country or at a dealer where the CRV is not moving...but the bad thing is other people on this board in areas that are hot will think they should be able to get that price too.
  • brianjandreaubrianjandreau Member Posts: 67
    I'm not sure where to put this post...

    I've never purchased an extended warranty before, but I've read that the time to buy one is for a remodel year. What is the convential wisdom? One of the reasons I'm buying a Honda is for reliability, but...
  • yangdariyangdari Member Posts: 20
    "for the umpteenth time, holdback does NOT fall to the bottom line as profit! "

    Actually, it does. Holback is really "contra cost of sales", meaning that the car manufacturer gives back to the dealer cash which offsets some of the dealer's initial car aquisition cost. From a finance P&L perspective, holdback will therefore increase gross margins and flow to the bottom line.

    Dealers sometimes make the (false) argument that holdback is supposed to pay for inventory holding cost (e.g. interest the dealer pays on the cars)and is therefore not negotiable. However, since dealers on this board claim that CRVs apparently sell like hot cakes fresh off the lot, there is really no material inventory cost at all.

    Also, here in the Bay Area CRVs are not in short supply and can be had close to invoice.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I disagree with you but that's O.K.

    Too bad about the Bay Area market. No reason to cheap sell a great car.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,760
    Honda Extended Warranties: Pricing and Info

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  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "I've never purchased an extended warranty before, but I've read that the time to buy one is for a remodel year. What is the convential wisdom? One of the reasons I'm buying a Honda is for reliability, but..."

    I would buy one, but get a good price. I recently saw about $1150 for an 8 year, zero decuctable, 120K warranty from college hills honda. Wherever you buy, be sure and get a genuine HondaCare warranty; other warranties are not directly honored by Honda.
  • squasheadsquashead Member Posts: 19
    Hate to say it, but I havent noticed. I live outside of town and avoid the city when I can.
    If you drew it, I will look for it next time. We are not talking about the neon landmark I assume, but a painted sign, what building or street if you will...
  • banjolaya1banjolaya1 Member Posts: 88
    Yes, I am talking about the (used to be neon, now LED packs) landmark sign overlooking Fenway park. I remember I had to climb on top of that thing on a cold and rainy day...
  • banjolaya1banjolaya1 Member Posts: 88
    While I agree with hondaguy that it is very expensive to run a dealership, it is not the New Vehicle Department that keeps the dealership in business. Used Vehicle Department makes much more gross profit on used vehicles but there is also the Service department. I read that about 50% of total gross for the dealership is actually made in the Service department. I honestly believe that is true. I bought a Volkswagen Jetta in 1997. I paid some $12,500 (it was used) when I was young and naive. It cost me about $2,000-$3,000 per year to keep that thing running. So, the dealership didn't make tons of money even on that used car. But boy, did I pay dearly for service...
  • rgraferrgrafer Member Posts: 17
    Had a nightmare finding and tracking down a CRV EXL with Navi, 2 WD, Borrego Beige. Finally purchased one at Key Largo Honda.

    Had a GREAT buying experience at Key Largo Honda, after being lied to and led on by both Ft Myers Honda and Tampa Hondaland.

    I have done tons of research and found that no one is going below sticker in FL on a CRV with Navi...why should they when they are in such demand and so many people are looking for one? :)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    And a concept some people just can't understand.

    A 2WD NAVI in beige would be a tough car to sell in my neck of the woods!
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "A 2WD NAVI in beige would be a tough car to sell in my neck of the woods!"

    Your "neck" is in Canada, right? Man, that is two entirely different worlds.

    However, in Florida I would opt for AWD; when it rains suddenly in the summer, the roads just ooze oil, from the sea shells used in the asphalt.
  • lolu143lolu143 Member Posts: 9
    I recently purchased my new CRV on Saturday and was impressed with the professionalism with Fremont Honda. They were very detailed in explaining how each itemized cost is derived, showed me the invoice of the car without me asking for it and after I bought the car, provided a checklist to mark off what is wrong with the car when I did my final inspection and finally showed the vehicle in and out, including the engine without me asking for it. I was done within an hour. They did not pressure me to buy anything extra, which is good! I dealth with sleazy dealerships as well, so I am happy that my experience was good. I highly recommend this dealership, ask for salesperson initials PWong.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    No, I'm in the Seattle area.

    The vast majority of CRV's we sell are 4WD although once in awhile someone will want a 2WD for reasons I can't understand. People that will spend the extra money for a NAVI always want 4WD.

    Also, that beige color isn't the best seller here. I can see Florida becaue of the light colored interior for the hot weather.
  • hondaguy67hondaguy67 Member Posts: 66
    Same here in Chicago. As a matter of fact only about 5% of our entire stock of CR-V's is 2WD. As far as the navis go there is no discount anywhere that I know of. There is just not nearly enough supply to meet demand. I know that will change in the future once production is ramped up however until then it will be MSRP or a courtesy discound of at most a couple hundred and then only to local customers.
  • banjolaya1banjolaya1 Member Posts: 88
    Sure, we understand that when demand is great and supply low dealers have the final say like on your CRV w/NAVI. Or is it so? We still hold the wallet. It's a game. Either you pay what the market requires or you go and find another car. I chose to do the latter. And I found out, many people did just that. So, by holding the price high Honda effectively will get rid of some customers while they are making it up on others that decide to buy a CR-V and pay MSRP. Okay. That works for me.
  • redcrowredcrow Member Posts: 4
    Yes, I am one of the customers that Honda might lose. I got so tired trying to get a decent deal for a CRV that I stopped trying. Now the Auto Show is in town - I plan to look at the other SUVs and I am hoping I can find something I like as much.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Yes, I am one of the customers that Honda might lose. I got so tired trying to get a decent deal for a CRV that I stopped trying. Now the Auto Show is in town - I plan to look at the other SUVs and I am hoping I can find something I like as much."

    I suppose by "decent deal" you mean below MSRP...

    Well, the fact that Honda always seems to be able to sell their new models at MSRP for a year or so (usually with waiting lines here in SoCal) indicates that a lot of people think they are worth MSRP. Personally, I think there are a lot of small SUVs that are up there in quality, but I vastly prefer Honda engineering over (for example) Toyota engineering: Honda engineers a firm ride and taut handling. Toyota engineers a softer ride and more lean in the corners.

    It is a personal thing that every driver has to decide for him/her self. Drive 'em all and decide which fits your "decent deal" and personal choice criteria. Good luck in your search... :shades:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Some shoppers can get so stubborn that they can't get over the fact that MSRP IS a great deal!

    They will go buy "another car" that they can get a big discount on. They buy the deal and not the car.

    Later, when they go to sell it or trade it, they discover that that car sold cheap because there wasn't much demand for it. Even less demand as a used car while the CRV held it's value much better.

    Who wins in the end?
  • bmarchandbmarchand Member Posts: 16
    I'm glad to see you got your car. It has been five weeks I have been waiting for Fort Myers Honda to come through for me but no end in site. I think I will look into Key Largo. Thanks for the info. Enjoy your car.
  • lilyprotectorlilyprotector Member Posts: 1
    i live in new york and was quoted a price of $26,595 for an 074WD EX-L. With a hitch and roof rack and all final charges, $29,238.

    could you tell me which nj dealership you bought your car from? they seem to have a much better deal.

    thanks!
  • mnfmnf Member Posts: 405
    You can get well below MSRP on a Honda, Toyota , Subaru ect if you will wait until the time is right. I have purchased new Honda(s)Toyotas and Subaru all just above invoice or as much as $1500 below. This done on a 90 4 runner, 98 civic, 2000 Accord, 04 Forester and a 06 CR-V. I see that you are in the Seattle area for some reason this area is tough as they would not budge much my best luck gas been in the Portland Vancouver area. MSRP no thanks....

    MNF
  • nearmspnearmsp Member Posts: 90
    Well, I did go and check out the RAV4 limited with the after market leather seats thing you talked about. I did a test drive for both the RAV4 and then the CRV on the same day. I just realized the CRV is just what I want - the ride was perfect the brakes were great and it felt nice driving it. I thus decided to wait patiently for my Honda. I am told it is on the boat now:)
  • brb972brb972 Member Posts: 7
    Mine is on a boat as well. Did they give you a delivery date?
  • banjolaya1banjolaya1 Member Posts: 88
    I am glad you found what you want. I hope you have fun driving it just as much as I have fun driving mine. I think that's the most important thing, not the MSRP or a good deal (well to a degree). One can have a good car AND a good deal. A good deal is when you get what you like and you can afford it. I think RAV4 will hold its value just like CR-V. And with V6 and the added fun I'll enjoy it for the long time to come. And when the time comes to trade it in, we all get lowballed anyway so it doesn't matter what holds value and what not. Car is not investment (it doesn't generate money) so one might as well buy someting he/she likes and not worry about resale value. In the end, if you buy what you like, everybody wins. Good luck and enjoy it nearmsp.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, so you wait two years. During that time you drive and throw money into your old car.

    Just to "save" a few bucks?
  • nearmspnearmsp Member Posts: 90
    I asked the salesman for the VIN number and he said he will give when the ship arrives. But he said the CRV is on the boat and only when it lands here he can give a firm date. I would not be surprised if this guy is trying to sell it to some on who is willing to pay a higher price.
    What about you? Did you get a delivery date or VIN number, anything that ties the vehicle to you?
  • smariasmaria Member Posts: 279
    Here in NJ (at Honda of Princeton) my friend got quoted $500 under MSRP right off the bat (no negotiation). Then after a little bit of haggling she managed to push it down to $900 under (exactly half-way between invoice and MSRP). Then she added foglights for $400 (that brought it back to $500 under the original non-foglight MSRP). So, total for the 4WD EX with foglights came to $24,140 + $167 doc fee + state tax.

    I don't think this was an *amazing* deal, but it was a pretty good and fair deal, right? What do you all think? Anyways, I told her I thought it was a good deal (I hope that was the right advice!), and she put her deposit down yesterday.

    The only downside is that the dealer doesn't currently have the color she wants in stock, so she'll have to wait a bit for delivery.
  • brb972brb972 Member Posts: 7
    They sales guy told me that they don't have any info on the vehicle except that it's on a boat and it should be here the first week of February. I hope he is right.
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