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Comments
A little bit of both :-) Subaru at $100 over dealer invoice. Honda at $200 below dealer invoice.
I purchased a 2004 Subaru Forester XT in late April at $100 over invoice. I walked into my favorite dealership with a verbal offer AT invoice from the dealer down the road (WAY down the road). I told them I'd buy the car that day from him if he could match the price. He counter-offered with a $100 more and I found that agreeable to taking my chances with an unknown dealer a hour out of my way. We shook hands and I had the keys within 30 minutes. No funny business on the paperwork.
I purchased a 2004 Honda CR-V EX in late June at $200 below invoice. I walked into the dealership with their printed below invoice offer that I got via email as well as two printed offers from other dealers AT invoice. Told them I came in for the below invoice pricing they had offered me. They tried some funny business in the paperwork but we caught them at every step.
Steve, Host
So for the Honda CR-V EX that has a dealer invoice of $21320 for the automatic and a wholesale price of $20643, you got it for 21120, using the numbers in this example. Horrors, it sounds like an SAT problem!!!
Did I say how much I *hate* this whole car buying process? And I'm a terrible negotiator.
Just out of curiosity, are you going to change your user name when you get into a Honda?
You know curiosity killed the cat. ;>
I might change my name if I land up buying a Subaru instead. But then I guess I'd be leaving this forum.
So come on all you Honda dealers, make me a great offer so that I can stay. Do you really need that second house in Bermuda? They get a lot of rain down there. So wouldn't you rather stay dry and put me behind the wheels of a CR-V? Vrrrroooooom, Vrrrooooomm.
Here's the breakdown:
MSRP (from edmunds) $22,550
Dealer Invoice (from edmunds) $20,830
Dealer Invoice (from edmunds plus destination) $21,320
MY Cash Price for 2004 CR-V EX Automatic (with destination) $21,020
Oh... I guess that's $300 below invoice! Wow! I got a better deal than I thought. The only way I was able to get that deal was by soliciting local dealers for quotes from their fleet or internet managers. I took the best one and got it in writing via email (did cars.com quote request). I didn't really NEGOTIATE. I walked in knowing exactly what price I would pay if I bought a car that day. I was prepared to walk away as soon as I didn't get my way. The dealer knew that.
My doc fees were $45
Sales tax in CA $1,737
Licence fees $192
Traded in the 2001 Dodge Dakota truck for $1000 below KBB trade in value (not bad considering the 2004's were being sold with $3500 factory incentives) and it had been actively marketed for sale for almost two months.
Oh, go shopping this saturday - you can find the desperate salesmen on the last day of the month! :-)
You can send me an email and I can give you a pep talk!
Elissa
2004 Subaru Forester XT
It has a 2.5 Liter Turbocharged Horizontally Opposed 4 cylinder, 210 hp engine with 215 ft-lbs torque at 3600 RPM! Weeeeee! Now, THAT's Vrrrroooooom, Vrrrooooomm !
Come, come to the dark side!
"A Subaru?" you say. Yes, my husband drives the CR-V, but I'm the one who bought it since I do the negotiating :-)
Elissa
Yeah, I figured that... I was just making an amusing (at least to me) comment about how people choose user names and then have to live with it... forever!
It has a 2.5 Liter Turbocharged Horizontally Opposed 4 cylinder, 210 hp engine with 215 ft-lbs torque at 3600 RPM! Weeeeee! Now, THAT's Vrrrroooooom, Vrrrooooomm ! "
Doesn't this car u$e Premium fuel, and get lower MPG than the CRV? No question on the performance though... as usual, we generally get what we want, and are willing to pay for.
Thanks for all the advise and encouragement. I didn’t go yesterday, so I’m going tomorrow end of the month! .like I said, my lowest quote is $20,900 and then I just got an e-mail from another saying he’ll beat my lowest by quote by $200 this weekend.
My question is: it’s ok to show the quotes, right? And, if the lowest quote is $20,700 (inc. destination), how do I negotiate if my target price is $20,500 (inc. destination). Start off low at $20,000 and work up? Or just hold firm at $20,500?
Also, my credit union’s final approval on the loan is contingent upon my paystub and work verification. It will probably be fine ( I work part-time instead of full-time, like I told them), but I can’t do that until next week. After the car purchase. So, will the dealership want or be required to run a credit check on me: a) because my credit union is closed on Saturday to verify and b) because my pre-approval letter has a “contingency”?
Please advise. I’m starting to a get a little nervous. I will be SO GLAD when this will be Over!!! I promise to let you all know how it goes.
Thanks!
If you have a problem with all this, get bank pre-approval, get the purchase order from the dealer, go to the bank, and return to the dealer with the check.
At least that's my understanding of it all...
tigerlily - I think you should walk in and ask for some number below your lowest written quote. Know your upper limit per dealership and never reveal that number. You aren't obligated to negotiate above your lowest quote - you should walk out if you can't get at least that. I also wouldn't low ball at $20K - sets a bad tone going that low I think and also, if it's too low, you loose credibility since they'll know/think you don't really know what the car is worth. Remember, they have to make some money or they won't sell it, so don't set yourself up to fail. If you get the car for any of the figures you are mentioning, it's a fantastic deal. Good luck!
Elissa
Like others have said, don't be discouraged if you have to exit a few dealerships. The first one I went to was not willing to negotiate, but the 2nd one did, and within 1/2 hour we were working on the paperwork.
Just my 2 cents, get plenty of rest the day before and dress like a serious buyer. Know exactly what accessories you want and the cost. (FYI, there's some good deals on line for genuine Honda accessories and Honda often mails coupons for accessories after your purchase so don't feel any pressure to add accessories the day you buy the vehicle.) I did not purchase the extended warranty contract, having been a Honda owner for the past 21 years with 2 cars.
The quote you got for $20,700 for a 2004 EX CR-V Aut, assuming they don't tack on dealer holdback, sounds like a great deal. Just read the invoice and make sure they don't tack on any unsual fees. Oh, and take a calculator.
Sorry I can't be of any help with the financing/ credit check questions. Best regards.
I contacted a bunch of dealers via the internet (I've forgotten which sites I sent the requests from). I went in this direction after contacting the dealers that I went to last month to find out what their *clearance* deals were (or as I discovered weren't). Most internet offers were unacceptable pricewise as well.
Totally frustrated, I sent out emails Wednesday night with counteroffers and told them that I was going to buy a vehicle by month end.
One dealer accepted my offer arond 11PM Thursday night with the stipulation that I had to pick it up Saturday. Contacted the other dealers (both internet contacts and in-store salesmen) Friday morning asking them to beat the bid. All told me that I was being low-balled.
Not much time to do due diligence, but took Friday off and did the best I could (I insisted on driving the vehicle that I was going to buy) and signed the papers afterward.
Lessoned learned (and there were many of them)? Use the internet as well as going in person. The internet can be more or less anonymous (ie get a hotmail or yahoo email account and don't use your real name) so you try to negotiate on two fronts, playing both against the middle. If the internet doesn't work, then go into the dealership but never mention your internet negotiations.
Capitalism, what a concept!
Hey, Steve, wanna change my handle?
But congrats on the new ride!
Were all those dealers who said you were getting low-balled named Isell? <g>
Steve, Host
Were all those dealers who said you were getting low-balled named Isell? <g>
Steve,
Don't know. Maybe.
If he does a follow up and asks me, maybe he'll tell who he really is.
It'd be like removing batman's cowel, spiderman's mask, or catching Clarke Kent in the middle of changing into Superman's fruit of the loom.
Oh my!
I could turn into a pillar of salt and then I wouldn't get to drive my new CR-V ;>
Anyone else pick up a new CR-V at the end of the month?
Steve, Host
I guess it's possible the market is depressed in some parts of the country to the point a dealer has to lose money?
If this is the case, seriously, the dealer ma be better off closing his doors and selling out. Take the money and invest it in a nice bond fund or something.
The overhead involved in operating a modern, up to date dealership is staggering. Add B & O taxes, employee benefits etc to this.
They HAVE to make money somewhere. The same customer who drove 100 miles to save 100 dollars
isn't going to be a loyal service customer either.
Sorry...as a former successful business owner, I just have to wonder sometimes.
Carry on...
I'm beginning to think you really don't know your market at all, if you think all these reports are faked.
I can't believe that shoppers in the NW are loyal either; many (most?) of us shop value and loyalty doesn't even enter the equation.
Plus Honda is struggling a bit in the US to maintain market share according to the Detroit News so that may be affecting deals.
<insert rant about Detroit reporting on Honda here LOL>
Steve, Host
I DON'T think every poster's veracity should be questioned, though. I know in my area, Accords can be bought under invoice minus holdback minus incentives, and that has been that way for years. I can't really figure out WHY or HOW, but I know it to be true. On the other hand, CR-Vs in my area are lucky to be discounted $1000, but I don't believe everyone that posts they got one for under invoice is a liar.
regards,
kyfdx
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Sorry Isell :-)
Steve, Host
(paraphrasing).. "I should just stay off the prices paid board."
He gives a lot of good info about Hondas and buying advice.. It is just the prices that drive him crazy.
regards,
kyfdx
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The market can be ruined by the stores that do this. Southern California ( I'm a native)is the best example of this. Those stores HAVE to make up their losses somewhere or they can't stay in business. Make sense?
Steve, I have NEVER ONCE tangled with a host on these boards nor have I EVER called anyone a liar.
I have stopped short of doing that but I have seen prices stated that, well, unless a trade was seriously undervalued would have never happened.
Every day, we deal with customers who tell us about a price "a friend" suppostedly paid for a new Honda. Sometimes the numbers are very low, but possible and other times we know something ia amiss.
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here and I will no longer frequent this board.
My wife loves her 2003 CRV EX and I hope all of the shoppers here enjoy theirs as well.
Good shopping...and, hurry, inventories are running low now.
About a week ago, we bought a CRV EX Auto with roof rack installed (which we requested) and front mud flaps (which we didn't ask for, they were just on there when the car came from another dealer) for $21,420 plus tax and doc fees ($100). They gave us $100 more than the KBB value for our Sienna trade-in. I felt like we did well, but don't have much experience with this. We got e-mail quotes from around southern and central Ohio, the lowest of which we took to the dealer right up the street and they matched it. Hope this can help someone else. I've learned a lot reading these boards.
I think I've mentioned on this board several times that we got our '04 CR-V EX Automatic June 26 (last weekend in June) for below invoice. Our salesman seemed to have a friendly competition going with others in the fleet sales department which could have been a factor in the end of month deal. He also stated that their fleet department did not earn commissions. FWIW
- elissa
The overhead involved in operating a modern, up to date dealership is staggering. Add B & O taxes, employee benefits etc to this.
They HAVE to make money somewhere.
I agree that the dealership has to make money -- but at what rate of return? 10%,? 20%? 30%? 40%?
Does it really cost the dealership $50 (or $100) in documentation fees when they send somebody down to the Motor Vehicle to pick up titles, tags, and registration -- especially when one person is doing this for 10 or more cars at a time? It's not as if I buy my car today and I get the tags two days later. So the dealership bunches them up to make it more cost effective. But we're talking about $1000 for 10 cars. Just what is the cost involved in the paperwork? $15 per hour for 8 hours? That's $120 in costs and $880 in profit. Then there's some gobbledy-[non-permissible content removed] about special messenging the paperwork over -- what are they doing sending it over by FEDEX 2 hour? I don't think so.
And shall we talk about this whole etching business? Or insurance sales? Or the games that are played in financing your loan at the dealership?
Consumers are tired of being ripped off. If the whole process were less fraught with lies (dealer: oh they're lowballing you, this is a hot car and we can't discount, oh the last of the '04s came in and they're going fast), consumers wouldn't mind paying a *fair* profit.
I don't know much about flooring charges, but don't manufacturers sometimes waive them toward the end of the sales year? If so, this increases the dealer's profit. Also incentives to move 04's out given to the dealer. Etc etc etc. None of which the buyer sees. Make a profit, but don't be a pig. Or be a pig but don't complain when a buyer one ups you at your own game.
Welcome to capitalism IsellHondas. I'll give you a hint, consumers are not going to roll over and play dead because a dealer cries poverty (while the latter is driving a Mercedes, Lexus, or an Infinity -- however if I see you in a Pinto or a Gremlin, yes).
And I agree with you that the customer who drives 100 miles to save 100 dollars isn't going to be a loyal customer, but to overcharge a local customer because you can isn't going to get a loyal customer either.
My deal was my deal. I don't know why the dealer offered it (wasn't meeting quota, overstocked with CR-V's, whatever), but I'm not asking. Capitalism is a strange animal but I'm quite sure if my deal wasn't in the *dealership's* best interest then they wouldn't have made it. They certainly didn't offer it to me out of the goodness of their heart or because they liked my pretty blues eyes.
Agghhhhh!!!!!!!!!
Word of warning, most of the vehicles on the lot have a number of dealer-installed accessories that drive the prices above those in the advertisement. Our salesperson was willing to go in the back and get us one that hadn't been modified, but I'm not sure that all of them would have done that.
All in all, a positive buying experience.
I got ours from Brighton Honda. My next option would have been Grand Honda!
CR-V LX 2WD: $17,999
CR-V EX AWD: $21,972
The dealer said it is possible to knock down the price by another $800. Will you guys consider this a warm deal then?
Also, the price difference between the LX and EX is about $3000. What I am really interested in is the ABS and side air bags, which are not immediately available to the LX edition. I live at North Carolina. The chance of snow is little. So AWD really does not matter a lot. Do you think it worth $3000 to add the ABS and side air bags?
Thanks!
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CR-V LX 2WD: $17,999
CR-V EX AWD: $21,972
The dealer said it is possible to knock down the price by another $800. Will you guys consider this a warm deal then?
Also, the price difference between the LX and EX is about $3000. What I am really interested in is the ABS and side air bags, which are not immediately available to the LX edition. I live at North Carolina. The chance of snow is little. So AWD really does not matter a lot. Do you think it worth $3000 to add the ABS and side air bags?
Thanks!
Business First of Columbus
Steve, Host
"TORRANCE, Calif. -(Dow Jones)- July sales at American Honda Motor Co., the U.S. unit of Honda Motor Co. (HMC), fell 2.6% on last year as Honda brand sales fell 3.6% but the smaller Acura division saw gains... "
http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt.jsp?section=news&cat=I- NDUSTRY&feed=dji&news_id=dji-00079120040803&date=2004- 0803
Steve, Host
I'm in Boise, so that's sort of the NW (or Intermountain West if you like). But I haven't shopped cars here, although I keep hearing about that dealer up in Kellogg who sells a lot of domestic makes over the net. There was a ton of pressure by other dealers to limit his stock (link), so maybe there is something to the conspiracy theories?
Steve, Host
Demand seemed high here as well: many of the dealers had less than 20 CR-Vs (some had only 2 or 3 LXs in stock) . At the end of June when I called one dealer, the salesman told me that he had the Chianti Red in stock. When he checked, he told me that they had sold three vehicles the night before and all he had left were...
Fact or fiction? I don't know but what a coincidence.
Flash ahead to end of July. I did the internet thing and asked the contact for Chianti Red. Same dealership. And I checked their back lot (several miles away from the dealership itself) and there were 2 in red. The email told me that there were none in red available because they were possibly sold. Possibly sold? With a house I can understand, with a car, com'on -- it's either sold or the people are thinking about it. And if I'm there saying that I'm ready to buy and I'll come down to the lot... hmmm.
The NW may be different. Don't know. Maybe they're all in the same "boat" that IsellHondas is. But I also know that a lot of these dealerships are owned by the same group -- although they might not be called by the corporate name. Upper Volta Honda and BillyBob Honda may have the same ownership and they've decided that they're not going to sell from their stock for below $22K.
What's a consumer to do? Make the best deal in your area after you've done your research. As a consumer, you really don't know the business relationships between the dealerships (even if they're corporate cousins).
Allocation of inventory was a big issue with Honda back in the '80's (freerepublic.com) but you'd think those kinds of shenanigans fell by the wayside after all the indictments.
"Possibly sold" I can understand since you have several salespeople moving cars and no listing agent acting as a gatekeeper like you do with a unique house.
Steve, Host
Lithia is the largest auto group in southern OR, but it is not in the Portland Metro area. When I did my internet research and asked for price quotes, I did not put a restriction where in the state and I did not hear from any one at Lithia. In my area the auto market is basically dominated by 2 very large auto groups and they set the price for everyone. I got the best quote I could from one of the big guys who is about 60 miles from me. Then I called my small town dealership and asked if they would match the price because I really wanted to deal with our little dealership and they said "yes", so I bought from them. I live in a rural area of the state so I like to give my hometown dealership my business. They also have low cost oil changes with coupon for $21.95. So hopefully when that time comes it will be a good outcome.
Thanks in advance.
ACE2004
I am not sure, if that is a good deal!.
What do you guys think ?. Is it a good deal ?.