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Dodge Dart/Plymouth Valiant

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  • roozsterroozster Member Posts: 7
    hey everyone i just bought a 1965 dodge dart 270 slant six... my problem is the car is not charging, the alternator is good though any info will help..... first ever mopar!
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,704
    Only a few causes:
    Battery - get a battery hydrometer and a charger (never hurts for an old classic car owner such as yourself to have a charger), unhook the cables, charge it up, test if there are any bad cells.
    Alternator - how do you know it's good?
    Regulator - Is it separate, or built into the alternator (I don't remember)
    Connections - make sure they're all clean and tight.

    Edit- where is the Alt. gauge pointing? And what are any other symptoms?
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    As the other person suggested, it could be a variety of things. If the ammeter doesn't show a charge, then you probably have a defective voltage regulator. The regulator in that car is external, and is mounted on the firewall. The original regulator was mechanical, but there now are more reliable solid state replacements made by many manufacturers. There also may still be some mechanical regulators out there, so it is a good idea to check the type of the one you plan to buy.

    If the ammeter does show a charge, but the battery keeps going dead, then you probably have a bad cell in the battery. You can confirm this by having the battery tested with a hydrometer and a load tester. Many auto parts stores will test batteries for free.

    The battery also can go dead if an alternator diode is bad. There are 6 diodes in the alternator. If one of them goes bad, the alternator may pass a voltage output test, but it will not produce enough current to keep the battery charged at low engine speeds, or when headlights and other electrical accessories are in use. The only way to confirm this kind of problem is to test the alternator's current output.

    A certain combination of bad diodes can also cause the battery to drain after the engine is shut off. If the battery has a charge in it, you can check for a battery drain by disconnecting the battery negative (ground) cable, and then touching it back to the post it was removed from. If there is a spark of any significant size, there is a drain. Of course, the lights must not be on, the doors and trunk must be closed, and the ignition key must be turned off. If you get a spark, disconnect the heavy cable at the alternator, and try the test again. If you now don't get a spark; you have bad alternator diodes.

    There is also a fusible link in the positive battery cable. If that link goes open, the charging system will not work.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    with old Mopars. When in doubt, change the ballast resistor! It's like a 2-dollar part, mounted on the firewall, and looks kinda like this.

    On my '68 and '69 Darts, it was mounted on the driver's side of the firewall, kinda high up. I think its main purpose is to cut down the voltage to the igntion coil so you don't fry the points, but it may cause other problems when it goes bad.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Good suggestion as a general rule but it probably wouldn't apply here. If the ballast resistor is bad, the car will start in the key's "crank" position but will stall the minute you release the key.

    The owner could take the alternator off and Autozone will bench test it for you for free.

    Or there's a way to by-pass the regulator but I'm not giving out electrical advice of this sort over the internet---I don't want somebody burning the garage down because my "green" wire has been changed to their "blue" wire.

    A chilton's manual will tell you how to do the by-pass test (library book?)
  • roozsterroozster Member Posts: 7
    my dart didnt come with a back window and i have looked online for one but have realized they are pretty expensive.. amy info on where to get one in the san joaquin, California area.
  • roozsterroozster Member Posts: 7
    i need to replace my voltage regulator but i was told i have to be careful with polarity? never knew! what caution should i take or do before replacing .... thanx
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,704
    hmm...as long as you disconnect the battery before doing anything, and make sure all wires are connected to the proper posts, I don't know what the 'polarity' warning is all about. Is the new regulator identical to the old one?
  • roozsterroozster Member Posts: 7
    or any i can order online
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    It sounds like the person who told you to be careful with polarity meant that you should not exchange the wires to the regulator's two terminals. But one of those terminals is a quick disconnect tab; and the other one is a screw terminal. It would be impossible to exchange the wires to those terminals, unless someone modified the wiring harness, which is highly unlikely. I expect the person who gave you that advice was not familiar with this regulator. It almost sounds like he was talking about a regulator for an old DC generator.
  • roozsterroozster Member Posts: 7
    correct and another thing i found out is the regulator was mounted on the coil.. :confuse:
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    The 1965 Dodge Dart slant 6 did not have the voltage regulator mounted on the coil, or anywhere near it. It was located on the firewall. So I'm concerned that you are either mistaking another part for a voltage regulator, or are using information which does not apply to your car model, or your car's electrical system has been modified.

    This all needs to be cleared up before I can give you any further advice. I would suggest you go to an auto parts store and look at a new voltage regulator made for a 1965 Dart slant 6. After you see what the part looks like, look under the hood of your car at the ignition coil, which is located on the passenger side of the engine, near the front, behind the alternator. (There is a heavy wire leading from the top of the coil to the center of the distributor cap, surrounded by all the spark plug wires.) And see whether there really is a voltage regulator like the one you saw at the store, which is mounted on the coil.

    If you have a digital camera, you can also take a picture of the coil and regulator, and include it in your next post.

    Thank you.
  • roozsterroozster Member Posts: 7
    ur right, i was looking at the wrong part on the schematic.. and there was some tampering on the electrical system which has been taken care of.. thanks for the reply
  • roozsterroozster Member Posts: 7
    i changed the alternator and the problem still exists :mad:. i have the battery on the charger so hopefully thats my problem.. ;) i will be going to the local napa and buying another regulator just in case, that will take away any doubt.i have been working on this thing and i love this thing more and more.
  • cgreen2cgreen2 Member Posts: 4
    for sale 1963 plymouth valiant 200 complete it runs fair i have this car stripped for painting i have all the chrome hub caps an pictures
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    hi cgreen, and welcome to the forums. Remember though that we don't allow classifieds in the forums. Try www.collectorcartrader.com or www.hemmings.com. But please join us for conversation about Valiants or any other cars you enjoy talking about.
  • poncho65poncho65 Member Posts: 3
    I have just bought my first Dodge car a 1965 Dodge Dart 225 however it requires a little help. I cannot seem to get the car to start. It turns over great and seems to ignite then dies. I have owned several Ford products over the years and when the ignition switch is in the "RUN" position you can externally start the car at the starter solenoid. On this car if I do that all it will do is turn over and never catch.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,704
    Well, it's either spark or fuel - do you get gas squirting when you pump the accelerator? Does it have good plugs and points, correctly adjusted (timing too)? If you have a timing light, does it show a spark going to each of the plugs when you turn it over?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh I know THAT one. It's the ballast resistor on the firewall. Change it and you're good to go. Free root beer float if I'm wrong. (just kidding, I'm not allowed to give consolation prizes).
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You know. I'll bet you're right!

    I had forgot about those ballast resistors. They don't fail often but when they do, that's how they act.

    Now, where to find one?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    Oh, it's like a $1.99 part, and you can get them at just about any auto parts store. Or, at least you used to be able to. Now, the last time the one in my '68 Dart failed, that car would still run, but it just ran really badly. The way the mechanic explained it to me, when the ballast resistor failed it allowed the full current to go to the distributor, and that fried the points.

    I dunno how interchangeable the parts are, but by '79, Chrysler was still using ballast resistors in their cars. At least, both my NYer and 5th Ave have this thing mounted on the firewall that's a dead ringer for one! Only difference is, it's on the passenger side, versus the driver's side on the Dart.
  • poncho65poncho65 Member Posts: 3
    Ok we now have a new ignition switch, new ballast resistor and starter solinoid; what we do not have is constant ignition. Again the car seems to ignite when the key is turned to the start position when released to the run position it dies instantly.... I am still totally lost. anyone know where i can find a wiring diagram for this hunk of steel?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Okay, do this:

    Turn key to ON position.

    Take test light, ground one end, stick pointer onto PLUS side of ignition coil.

    Do you get a light? If not, your ignition switch or wiring is bad or mixed up.

    Trace it back from the PLUS side of the coil and checked every connection until you find voltage somewhere. You must have a break.
  • poncho65poncho65 Member Posts: 3
    Thank you very much for your assistance it was a broken ground wire to the ignition wiring harness
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That drives people nuts.

    Good Job, Joe!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    (BOW)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    Good. Now get over here and get my 338,000 miles, hasn't started in 6 years POS edition '68 Dart running, Shifty! :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I....am.....getting....a......message.....from.....your.....car......it....needs- ....a......a.....a......no, the message has faded....
  • redddoggredddogg Member Posts: 3
    I have a 65 dart gt i am starting to restore the car but i am missing the chrome for the front of the hood . any idea where i might get one?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Get a copy of Hemmings motor news and start there. First you call the parts guys, then you call any club that might have GT members, then you can even call up people selling GTs and ask them about parts they got for their restorations.

    www.hemmings.com

    It's all out there, somewhere, but you gotta dig on a car like yours.
  • jbonerojbonero Member Posts: 2
    ebay or craigslist too.
  • jbonerojbonero Member Posts: 2
    I know it's old but this question show up in Google so here are some schematics for a 65 Dart:

    1965 Dodge Dart (Schematic A)

    1965 Dodge Dart (Schematic B)
  • cmknight8897cmknight8897 Member Posts: 4
    I was wondering if anyone could tell me what the towing capacity for this car is. I would like to pull a small travel trailer with it but I'm not sure how large it can be so the car can comfortably pull it. I plan on buying a vintage trailer somewhere in the same year range as the car and work on them both as a restoration project. Any info would be appreciated thanks.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    I have no idea, but as a wild guess I'd say maybe 2000 lb, max. While a Valiant may not seem like a small car by today's standards, back then it was considered a compact. In stock form, the Valiant with the 225 engine had a 2.76:1 axle ratio, and 9" manual drum brakes. Around 110 hp net (145 gross), and maybe 185 ft-lb of torque, I'd guess. I don't think it would be able to tow much, without some beefing up.

    I guess if you could swap in different gears, maybe 10" brakes off a V-8 Valiant/Dart, and perhaps install a transmission cooler and oil cooler, maybe the car would be a better tow vehicle? A 2.94:1 axle was standard in 1967, and optional in later years. That would probably be better, but still maybe not enough?
  • cmknight8897cmknight8897 Member Posts: 4
    I plan on converting to power disc brakes cross drilled and slotted rotors and probably changing the gear ratio. I would like to keep it mostly original. I want to keep the slant six. The trailer doesn't need to be very large probably about 14 -16 foot or so. Based on that I will find out the gross weight of some trailers of that size.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,303
    you may want to check into getting a larger radiator, from a v8?, and adding a transmission cooler.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • cmknight8897cmknight8897 Member Posts: 4
    OK thanks. I will definitely be adding a trany cooler and a larger radiator couldn't hurt.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,704
    I used my '72 Duster with a 198/manual 3 spd. to pull a small Uhaul trailer from Houston to San Francisco, no problems. I had previously installed a bigger radiator and a large-capacity fan. I imagine it was well under 2000 lbs, so if you're talking travel trailer, it had better be small!

    Note-while drilled and slotted rotors are good for looks, they actually aren't better for overall braking performance, and all that drilling and slotting actually can weaken the rotors. Disc brakes sure would be an improvement over the drums, though
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd say nothing over 1,000 lbs and even that is pushing it. You have everything against you--small engine, no transmission cooler, drum brakes, and no doubt an economy differential gearing.

    So that's about the weight of a U-Haul closed trailer that's 5 X 8 foot and empty.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,704
    Sounds about right. With my manual tranny I had one less thing to worry about. I used (and loaded up :surprise: ) the smallest Uhaul trailer-might be smaller than 5x8? It was 'fun' passing a guy on PCH...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    One trip on US highway 50 through Nevada would convince anyone not to tow much weight with a passenger car. I've seen too much carnage on that road. I'm a believer in never pushing your tow weight.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    I was able to pull-start a fully-loaded moving van once with a '68 Dart. However, it was a V-8. And also, being on level ground helps a bit. And I don't take that as an indication that I would want to tow that much weight at highway speeds! :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh you could pull 2,000 lbs with a V-8 Dart for a short distance at moderate speeds I would think. Besides a van is a lot more stable than a two-wheel trailer I would guess and there's not much tongue weight.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    Back when I delivered pizzas, one of the other drivers had a 1991 Civic hatchback that died on him while on a run. I helped him get the thing home. We went by his friend's house and got a dog chain, and tied his Civic to my Dart and towed it home. For the most part I couldn't even tell that the other car was back there, except when slowing down, if the guy in the Civic hit his brakes too hard.

    A couple years later, my '89 Gran Fury refused to start, and I used the Dart to tow it to the repair shop about 2 miles away. In this case, the Fury outweighed the Dart, but it still wasn't that noticeable. But then, it was mostly flat ground, which isn't going to stress out a car too much. Heck, when you think about it, a couple guys on foot could probably push a car to a decent speed, on level ground.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    When I was poor and stupid, or should I say stoopider :P I had an old Audi with no reverse gear, and I would push it out of parking spaces all the time. If it was parked downhill I had to wait for the car in front of me to leave. Those German wheel bearings saved my butt!

    the laws of physics do allow a 5,000 lb truck to pull a 10,000 lb truck, but "pull" and "tow" are rather two different things.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    imageheight="450"
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If I were that guy I'd just stop resisting and let the train tow him. :P
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    Yeah, and what I really like is that orange safety vest he's wearing. It's going to make all the difference!
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    I just hope he's not wearing false teeth (OUCH!!!).

    Actually, he is neither pulling nor being towed by the train. What really happened is that the train's air brakes went out; which forced an emergency stop and the evacuation of all the passengers. The train is now located on a very shallow incline; and the man is holding it to prevent it from rolling away; until the Sagvagen arrives.

    This is the undisclosed reason why KTM refuses to equip its motorcycles with air brakes.
  • cmknight8897cmknight8897 Member Posts: 4
    Of course I plan to beef up the valiant before towing anything. Disc brakes trany cooler bigger radiator ad lower gears for sure and The trailer I want to pull will be small maybe even a vintage pop up tent trailer or a tear-drop style. Thanx for the info based on what I have read here I think I will be fine.
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