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Honda Civic Si/SiR Maintenance and Repair
Items to be aware of on 2002 Civic Si. Based on my actual experience.
1. High oil usage. 1 quart in first 2300 miles.
2. CEL due to fuel system leakage.
3. Radio defects/failure. On long trips the radio will cease to function.
4. Tire/Suspension issues- currently being diagnosed. The symptom is vibration at highway speeds.
1. High oil usage. 1 quart in first 2300 miles.
2. CEL due to fuel system leakage.
3. Radio defects/failure. On long trips the radio will cease to function.
4. Tire/Suspension issues- currently being diagnosed. The symptom is vibration at highway speeds.
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Comments
I am not saying the 02 is a defect riddled car, but there have been posts about oil consumption, vibrations, paint problems, peeling dash materials... to mention some.
For others who have a genuine interest.
Parts were replaced in fuel system.
Radio was replaced.
Oil usage is being monitored.
The front wheels were rebalanced, I will see if the vibration reappears.
Gee35- If you think there are no problems on the Si then you need some of the other boards and even the tests in magazine articles. Oil usage, radio defects, paint problems, tire/wheel/suspension vibration, CEL, EPS, and fit and finish issues.
Since I'm gonna buy an SI anyhow, I'd like to know how you feel about how Honda has attempted to fix your probs. Have they been responsive or hard to deal with? Give you the 'customer service' shuffle, or engage with and effectively resolve probs?
I can't blame it solely on the cold weather anymore like someone suggested. It wasn't bone chilling cold this weekend. Around 40F or so. But the car is developing some weird noise from the right and left side of the car. It used to be only the left side. I think it is coming from the engine compartment. I looked in it but I can't find anything loose in there. Even the rod to hold up the hood is secure.
It is also hard to describe the noise but it comes on when I'm going at highway speed. Like I said, it is worse now since both side are developing that sound. It doesn't sound like tire noise nor wind sound. I've made sure I've nothing loose in the car but the sound doesn't seem to be emanating from the cabin. Definitely outside noise.
If I turn on the radio, I can't hear it anymore but when the radio is off, it is almost as clear as day to me though my gf. often says what noise??
I guess there's only 1 perfect Si in US that runs as smooth as glass and we all know who owns it. Bummer for the rest of us.
On the plus side, I'm getting better gas mileage going from 91 to 87. In my A4, I have to use 93 or 91 at min. So, it was a habit to automatically put in 93 or 91 though I've read conflicting reports that you should never use higher rated octane than what is recommended. I don't believe the Si is a car that will actually adapt to higher octane. In my last fillup, I was seeing 28MPG compared to 23 or so just the week before.
Cross my fingers I hope that all the initial issues are resolved. Other owners have reported that oil consumption is an issue that will disappear as more miles are put on the car.
Help assure your vehicle's future reliability and performance by paying extra attention to how you drive during the first 600 miles (1,000 kilometers). During this period:
Avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration.
Avoid hard braking. New brakes need to be broken in by moderate use for the first 200 miles (300 km).
I followed the above and my Si is using oil. It will not be using oil after 10,000 miles according to the experience of others. Even when car had 140,000 plus miles my previous Accord never used any oil.
Break in oil- according to Honda- Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?
Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.
American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions
Last time I checked my oil (7000 miles) I had not used any oil since the 3000 mile mark. I am going to get it changed within the next couple of days and hopefully I saw the last of the oil burning at the 3000 mile mark.
You just heard moparbad saying his 02 Si is consuming oil. So, there you have it. You heard it.
On the other hand, I'm at 1000miles, and my oil level remained the same. Hopefully it will as the miles rakes up.
The same person that made the above statement has no problem making negative judgements about Ford, GM, VW and other makes they have not "owned enough to make a judgement about".
I've had some problems with my Si. Other owners of Si or Honda telling me their car did not have a problem did not persuade my Si to fix itself and was not helpful in any way. Please step off the pulpit and realize that Honda is a car and not a religion. Try offering a solution instead of criticism.
As far as me not having experience with VW, GM, and Ford .. I haven't owned them but I do work for a VERY high-volume used car dealer and see all kinds of cars go through both in service and sales. And our one GM product was the nightmare that it was made to be. Got rid of that 2000 Silverado after 10 months and 7,000 miles. Lost about $6,500 in the process but boy was it worth it to get out of that gas-guzzing heap of pretty metal. Got a 94 LS400 instead. Had 113,000 miles when we bought it and has been flawless.
Long story short ... you don't need personal experience with a Ford, GM, or VW to know that they are subpar. The facts are right there for us to read. Facts also show that under normal circumstances your Honda (Passports not included) will be more reliable than the above-mentioned brands.
FWIW, I think general statements about a make or model can be valid and still not apply to every single car sold. I.e., Honda's have a rep for reliability and value retention that seems true over all, whether or not Ham and Mopar are having probs. That doesn't make those probs any the less probs, any more than the probs make the rep any the less true. (I suspect the rep makes the probs less acceptable - to the owners as well as the dealers, who, reports have it, have been very responsive in resolving the probs.)
Personally, I'm glad to know the 2 liter engine is 'atypical' in using oil during break-in. It won't bum me out if that's my experience, and I know to check more carefully.
It somes some people disagree to disagree. Maybe that's just the affect I have on people. :-)
I like this statement. A lot! LOL.
Btw, anony, no one said ALL Honda/Acura ate oil.
Anony said:
Got rid of that 2000 Silverado after 10 months and 7,000 miles. Lost about $6,500 in the process but boy was it worth it to get out of that gas-guzzing heap of pretty metal.</>
Hmm, let's see. Buy a brand new truck which has the highest profit margin for the big 3 and keep it for 10 months and you just lost $6,500. I think you did pretty good. Someone else would have lost at least $10k. No wonder you and gee35 can afford to buy/lease 2 news cars (average) every year.
Anony also said:
Whereas, if you do a search for VW, Ford, and GM problems pages upon pages will come back with websites devoted to hating the company and their cars.
So, you are saying if I do a search on google now, I'll never find a single website with complains about Honda and Acura?? I'm sure you'll say there aren't as many websites for Honda/Acura compared to the rest of the car makers.
Face it. You may follow Honda like a cult. We don't.
'Twas said.
'Twas argued.
Arguer was argued with for arguing.
Still 'tain't true.
Might be true that the 2 liter uses oil during break-in. I haven't been skeered enough (or I'm too skeered) to check at 225 miles on the odo; so I dunno about mine.
And no .. I wasn't saying you won't find Honda/Acura problems if you do a google search but there will be no where near the number of results vs. doing the same for the above mentioned manufacturers.
BTW: Can you believe a MILLIONAIRE won that $315 MILLION dollars? Talk about luck. And I'm happy when I get a free chic-fil-a sandwich.
1978 Hatch......180k Km none
1979 Wagon......180k Km none
1984 Si Hatch...160k Km none
1997 4drEX......110k Km none
2001 2DrLX......48k Km 1/2 litre on break in only
2002 SIR Hatch...4500 Km 3/4 litre on break in. None since.
Others were Datsun,MGB,Suzuki,Toyota Volkswagen and unfortunately a Plymouth. Only the MGB and Plymouth needed weekly top ups.
If you are thinking of buying, oil usage is not some to worry about.
Notice the contention level dropping already?
Thanks for your cooperation.
KarenS/Host
Tire vibrations experienced when new have not gone away completely. Also I have noticed they can flatspot overnight.
I had the dealer balance them yesterday with little or no effect. I will be going back again.
Perhaps the tires and fuel economy are related?
My odometer would hit about 260miles and the light would come on. Re-fueling takes about 10-10.5 gallons depending on how far I had to go before seeing a gas station I like (Shell, Mobil, BP).
A thread on EPHatch.com also confirms the poor gas mileage of the Si. Well, 27 ain't bad but when you are cruising on the highway for 10hrs, I expect to get 30mpg.
I think the only perfect Si (or rather 2) has been purchased by anony. No one else's Si is as perfect as hers. My still creaks and rattles. I spin my tires a lot on slightly snowed over roads.
Anyone who is interested in reading about poor MPG reported by Si owners on ephatch.com website, go here:
Link to poor Si gas mileage
Lots of good stuff.
I have to agree that the Michelin tires do not perform well when cold. They are bumpy and vibration prone when cold IMHO.
I have a new concern about the Si and want to know your feedback. Has anyone had any problems with paint chipping? It was reported as a problem in a review of UK civics and I thought at the time that the problem was due to abuse. Now I have had a paint chipping experience with my Si that was unusual. How is your paint holding up? I have not had my car long enough to know for sure one way or another how the paint is going to hold up.
I agree about the Michelins. First time I've experienced that vibration with cold tires, but I also think the tight chassis transmits very well.
On my first 1000miles, I too thought it will improve. I posted here and anony (who else) said the car is still new and it'll improve. Well, guess what? I'm at 3000+ now and it is still the same. Using unleaded or premium doesn't make a difference in MY car. I still can't break 30MPG.
Like I said, her car is the only one I've read about on the net getting 33MPG.
Moparbad - you are right about using premium. If we use anything higher than what the manuf. recommend, we are only throwing dimes away on the gallon. The only time it can make a difference if you re-fuel in a shabby gas station which supply less than the indicated Octane. Maybe a 87 is actually more like 86. So, in that case using 89 or 91 or even 93 might be better.
In my case, I always refuel at the Mobil station near where I live for many many years now. I trust the gas that I put in my cars.
But the left side refuses to go away. I think it is coming from either the steering column or woofer (inside of the side mirror) or speakers (down by the door). It is kinda hard to isolate the sound. Anyone has any sound coming from this area?
I took off the left panels last week and zip tie one cable. Looks like that's not the one. Might have to take off the speaker covers and take a look.
Also, if you read the thread on the link I provided, you'll notice a majority of people are complaining about the gas mileage. However you fail to see that and just say the mileage will improve as the miles rakes up.
Look, you mentioned that last time when I was on my second tank (less than 1000miles). I'm over 3000 miles now and have re-fuel countless of times now. Do I have to wait till I hit 10,000 miles? Maybe then you'll tell me to wait 20k, 30k??
We don't make these things up, you know. It is a genuine problem. Unfortunately, the problem you faced, your car rolling down a hill, seem to only affect you and me here on this board. Though I was there to prevent my car from rolling any further down. EPHatch has a few reports on owners car rolling down too. In one instance, the car actually hit another parked car.
The maximum fuel economy will be returned at a constant speed of just under 60 mph in fifth gear, since the engine management system is tuned for European use and the European regulations are designed for 56mph fuel economy figures.
I have a 2002 Civic Si with 8400 miles on it, and I too cruise at around 78mph on the highways. I'm consistently getting about 27mpg. I use the recommended 87 octane unleaded fuel, as anything else is a waste of money.
Any expectation of 30mpg or higher at speeds in excess of 60 mph is optimistic at best. Honda have never claimed that figure.
I used to design automotive engine management systems, and as with any complicated machine there are variations between individual machines. It's possible that a small number regularly return in excess of 30mpg. However the overwhelming majority won't; if they did, Honda would claim those figures.
In the 8400 miles I've driven in my 2002 Si, the car has generally performed well and is fun to drive. I have had some minor problems though:
- The radio On/Off button has been temperamental, not working at all for a period of 2 days.
- Excessive wind noise from the drivers side
- Used a quart of oil in the first 3000 miles
The radio I will have checked out by the dealer. The wind noise is, I suspect, a design flaw I won't be able to fix.
The oil usage is probably just because the engine is new and the moving parts were bedding in. I don't expect that to continue.
All in all it's a great car for the money. If I get the radio fixed and reduce that wind noise it'll be everything I expected it to be.
I saw a post in the ephatch link Ham posted about chip tuning that suggested better power and mileage could be had by mods to the programing in the engine management chip. I'm already over my head knowledge-wise; but that idea makes sense to me, especially in light of Doire's comments. Can anyone give me a quick course? Upsides, downsides, companies, products, etc.?
Unfortunately, this particular company will require you to send in one of your car key, immobilizer and ECU to have it re-flash.
I am familiar w/ ECU re-programming w/ the Audi before and it's 1.8T engine. From 150HP (earlier model) to 170HP (current model), you can boost it up to 207HP and 245ft.lb w/ just a higher boost, re-map fuel and oxygen mixture and timing as well. All done w/ a chip.
If only the Hondata.com chip will be authorized dealer installable and gives about 180WHP, I'm be a customer. Maybe 190WHP w/ exhaust
Price will be $600.
Got any take on reliability, wear, warranty, etc.?
As for the squeak coming from the driver's side of the car. Zip tie the wires beneath the steering column. I had a squeak that seemed to be coming from the steering column and isolated it to those wires. Gee cinched them up and we haven't heard a creak or rattle since.
The squeak was in the door pillar, probably the plastic interior trim. Since it was right there, LOL, I could feel the vibes in my finger tips when I touched it. It came and went and hasn't returned.
BTW, the manual says to use 87 octane gas. I'm hoping my mpg is simply a break-in phenomenon. Heck, I'd be happy with Ham's mileage, even if he isn't. If I can't better my h-way mpg in a 5.0 'Stang, that will be my first Si disappointment.
- Higher octane gas (super unleaded) does not give your car more power or better fuel mileage. It means your car is more resistant to detonation. Purchasing the more expensive, higher octane, premium fuel provides no benefit to most cars. The only reason to use high octane gas is if your car is starting to "ping" (which is also called engine knock). This knock will not only rob your car of power and fuel mileage, but more importantly, depending on the severity, can ruin your engine over time.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm
River - is it a squeek or a rattle?? In the Si/Sir thread you said it is a rattle. If it is a squeek, it is definitely not the same sound.
anony - I did try 89 and 91 during my trip to Atlanta. But since the mileage wasn't good. So I used 87 all the way back and document it. 27MPG ain't bad since it is ONLY 3MPG off the EPA or 10%. If only my 401k are returning 10%..
I'd be really happy with your mpg, Ham. Maybe mine will improve with more wear in. My old Stang would reliably get 25 mpg hway, and my '99 Si would get 29-30. LOL, fuel costs were pretty even since the '99 needed 91 octane.
The long service intervals on the '02 impress me! What is it? Over 100K until the first tune up? Most of my driving is the worst kind - 2,3 mile trips with lots of stop-start; so, I'll use the 'severe schedule'.
Just buy Mobil1 from Costco and do your own oil changes every 5000 miles since you are in the severe category. But filters online from handa-accessories.com.
No more paying $300-$400 on the 30k tuneup for me. Though I'm sure unscrupulous service dealers will tell you otherwise.
And the best part, no timing belt to change
I've looked under the fuse panel and the little plastic storage compartment (taking them apart) to find the little bugger that is making all the racket. I even zip-tied one cable that I think might be the culprit. Will resort to taping them if I get a chance today. Will also remove the steering column cover and see if I can see any loose wires like anony did.
I don't think mine is coming from the A-Pillar but there was a noise there before. A flapping sound but that has not been appearing. At times I think it is coming from the tweeter. If only the weather is not <20F. Not fun working in an unheated garage in the middle of winter.