Dodge Magnum

fsv · May 2003

Since this is 300 discussion, I guess, we should go away from Intrepid. And, read less magazines - this is total bs... I am happy, that you are lucky so far - but a little bit time will prove I am right. Your cars mostly have too low mileage - except the one with 100K - I'd say, it's coming... Intrepids are total disasters and best thing a person can do - is not to buy one. Unfortunately I did. But, I got over it - and I only hope, that DC also learned their lesson, and will sort out 300 and Magnum well prior to production.

Jason5 · May 2003

This will be my last post the topic of transmission/reliability in general and your (FSV's) posts in general. This reminds me of a "member" of our Intrepid board who's sole purpose was to fan the flames--so to speak. Once data was presented that didn't support his rhetoric, he too resorted to the same "non-arguments", misdirections, etc..
I don't feel I've been "lucky" so far--in fact my good ownership experience is more indicative of the DATA, and experiences of others than yours seems to be (if indeed you had one at all). One wonders why you would feel compelled to post here when there are "maintenance" boards, and by your own profile, you don't own a Chrysler...
Magazines are BS? Intrepids are total disasters? This is a 300 discussion? I think it's clear where the BS resides...

fsv · May 2003

I don't think your remark is friendly - neither appropriate; your argumentation is authoritorian(?) - for the lack of better word. Discussion should be based on facts or thesises, not on attitude. Hope it will be noted by the host.

Jason5 · May 2003

can be found in the Intrepid forum.. Member "ottowrkr" (spelling?) apparently works in the DC LH/LX assembly plant and shares info from time to time..

andre1969 · May 2003

My '00 Intrepid has about 79,000 miles on it, and never any tranny problems to speak of. I ran into an old co-worker yesterday, whose wife has a first-gen 3.5 'Trep. Forget the year though, I want to say '96? They're up to something like 175,000 miles! Original engine and tranny. So these things *can* last, if you take care of them.

Do these trannies fail? Sure they do...everything fails at some point, no matter how good it's built. Do they fail more often than competing trannies? Maybe they do, maybe they don't. When they first came out around '89 or so, they definitely did, but today they're good enough, I wouldn't worry about it. If I buy a new one, I'd take care of it, so it most likely won't fail. If I bought a used one, I'd just make sure I had good maintenance records from the previous owner, which I would do regardless of the car.

fsv · May 2003

Intrepid tranny - this issue on this forum is closed; at least by me; not that I have changed my opinion or awfull expirience wanished from my memory. This is now between those who own these cars and their cars. I guess, more appropriate place for this topic is the Intrepid forum, where everybody is entitled to freedom of posting their OWN experiences in this regard.
Let's switch to LX now, for a change.

emale · May 2003

i'll chime in quickly. i've owned three different intrepids ('96,'98,'00) and never had any tranny related problems. i didn't care for the excessive road noise, but otherwise thought my intrepids were decent cars. the failure rate of the 42LE tranny in the LH cars is way overstated. most of the time when there has been a problem, it has not been outright failure, but rather something like speed sensors that quit working. however, even small problems are treated like big ones in Consumer's Union.

the LX cars will be getting a mercedes designed, but american built tranny called the W5A580. it's a five speed automatic. from what i understand, it is a very good tranny.

fsv · May 2003

How good it is, time will show; but now W5A580 doesn't look bad - as per http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ML_specsII.html it can handle 426 lb / ft. It looks like a light truck/van tranny... Hopefully unlike 42LE it will be reliable.

ottowrkr · May 2003

Otto Wrkr , thats me.

fsv · May 2003

Hey Otto... Just saying hi...

One of the automags - Automobile or Road and Track (I looked through yesterday waiting in a line in a store), in the current issue said Something like that: "..don't expect 300 to be under US$ 40,000..." what confirms my dark suspicions from post # 73 on Magnum forum... Sometimes I feel that I can predict bad things... Only hope I am wrong here, but it doesn't look so...

indydriver · May 2003

Great post on the MB tranny capability. That proves that the Hemi will NOT be hopped up for any LX vehicle. It also means it will never be supercharged ala the SRT-8 fantasy. Too bad.

The $40K prediction, at least for the new 300C is exactly where DC wants to position the Chrysler brand...upscale and out of reach of most of their loyal followers. I still say the Magnum will be the best of the bunch for a variety of reasons. Plus, being a Dodge, it will be affordable...base in the mid-20's, top of the line with Hemi in the low 30's.

fsv · May 2003

indy, I might be wrong, but the car is NOT tall, even meaning NORMAL tall. Naturally, concept is a concept only, but the thing I saw in NY is very low slung. I'd say, even too low for my taste. But, regardless, I want it, if it will be under 30G's. And tranny - hemi makes in upper 300 Lbs'. Hopefully it will be able to take the lead-foot obuse. Though I pamper my cars.

andre1969 · May 2003

thrown around too, in Car & Driver. There should be cheaper versions, though. For instance, I believe Chrysler is reissuing the New Yorker nameplate, which will essentially take over the Concorde's current territory.

As for height, I've read that these things are actually about 59-60" tall. They're just styled to look low-slung, with a high beltline and smallish windows that give it a tough, hunkered-down look. For comparison, the current LH cars are about 56" tall. The long, 120" wheelbase helps give them a lanky look too.

ottowrkr · May 2003

I have heard there will be 3 versions of the 300 low-line mid-line and Hi-Po line. So the price will start lower and work up

emale · May 2003

indydriver,

the rating on the W5A580 of 426 lb/ft doesn't mean it can't be upgraded. in fact mercedes has upgraded it for their AMG cars. so, a supercharged hemi is not out of the question...

get02 · May 2003

Finally the return of a Hemi Powered, rear drive full size Chrysler! Hallaluya!! Now if only Daimler-Chrysler builds the 300C as pictured and spec'd in all the recent automotive magazines and prices it realistically, they will have a major sales success! Although a significantly larger automobile, the 300C will certainly have to be priced competitively against the Lincoln LS. If DC prices it too high, it will begin to compete with Mercedes Benz, BMW, etc.. I look forward to test driving the real deal when it becomes available.

Gary
Palm Harbor, FL

fsv · May 2003

DC is facing difficult market, bad quality rap, total new car layout - I mean RWD, and uneasy marketing decisions. I saw the car - it has certain dualty to it - in reality it is more of Seville/Deville, than Lincoln competition - and also it looks like some blend of past/present Mercedeces, Rolls-Royces, ZIL's and something else in it's looks. Bigger Caddies have tough times being sold - 'cuz Mercedeces and rest outclass them in nearly every respect, and most important, prestige. That's why Caddy, in my opinion, selected the right way - they try to top everything now, offering much better cars, loaded with technology - plus, their quality has dramatically improved. I, personally, was badly tempted still by Deville, their smaller CTS is cool also - I still might vote with my buck for it's V8 edition. I see people beig attracted to recent Caddies also. Now, DC is introducing LX platform and line of cars, competing with Caddilac & Lincoln, who in turn, compete against Mercedes! The only thing here working for DC, is the fact, that Mercedeces are ridiculosly overpriced even in their own group, comparing with Bimmer, Lexus, etc!!! 300 - LS (I suggested myself in this forum, that 300 will be LS competition) - LS is much smaller! 300 looks more like a car going for Towncar niche, but then, engine selection is weird - 2.7 & 3.5 are too small for a limo - 5.7 hemi is cool, but, who gonna pay for the gas? And Town car engine is marvel of efficiency, and I have a few friends driving limos, & let me tell you, they are and will be very loyal to Lincoln! This car feeds them, it is closer to them, than their relatives. So, what DC will do, how they gonna market and price the car - I am curious to see myself. And I mentioned only few thing that crossed my mind - DC guy must have real bad headache, since car enthusiast crowd is too small and unreliable (otherwise Impala SS wouldn't have died). The only safe bet would be to price the car real low, on the same level as Infinity G35 or lower, build up the reputation and go from there. But here comes profitability issue and some other things - I don't know what to say. The 300 and magnum look like good cars though. I am stretching lifespan of my subaru legacy waiting for Magnum; I invest a lot of trust in DC - I definitely can sell my car for more money now, than in a year or two.

machiavelli · June 2003

Maybe I'm in the minority, and maybe I'll change my mind when I see one in person, but I think the styling of these cars is a big step BACK from the LH cars. I really don't like the slab sides, and the low green house. It looks like it will have no headroom. I don't like the proportions of it. It looks like something from the 70's - all it needs is a padded vinyl roof, white walls, and wire wheels, and they could call it a New Yorker Fifth Avenue Brougham. Maybe some people would like that, but I like the clean, modern looks of the 300M better.

ruski · June 2003

that's what my wife said

a_l_hubcaps · June 2003

"All it needs is a padded vinyl roof, white walls, and wire wheels, and they could call it a New Yorker Fifth Avenue Brougham."

I'll take one! Where do I sign up? :-)

-Andrew L

emale · June 2003

brougham...

now there's a name i haven't seen in a while. wonder who'll bring that back first???

fsv · June 2003

I bet the roofline will go up - look at the most recent pics of Magnum wagon (in Magnum Forum). DC must think about the styling & pricing of those car 10,000 times - look at Pacifica - it simply doesn't sell. It looks porky and is expensive. They will lower the price of the car to around 30G's. DC should offer the cars slightly above the solf-costs, offer stipped-down muscule versions of the cars, if they want to stick to current design themes, and gain a foot in the market one way or another - otherwise they would have to offer REALLY DEEP incentives later on and nothing works against car reputation as bad as a bad launch - look at Saturn L - and what's wrong with it? I still can not figure out how Saab, being the same car, sells for so much, and Saturn doesn't - and that's for the half the price. It's all the bad launch. Not that I mind to get a discount on a car, but nobody wishes DC fate of Daewoo...

Jason5 · June 2003

Several pics have circulated of the Magnum--I believe I saw them in Autoweek--in preproduction dress. It looked almost exactly like the concept I saw in New York. Time will tell I suppose. After seemingly limitless rain here in Pennsylvania, I washed and waxed my Steel Blue ES....stepped back....and realized that DC will have to do better than the Magnum/300C styling to keep me around...

ottowrkr · June 2003

The production magnum will have the same roofline as the concept.

machiavelli · June 2003

That roofline looks way too low to me. It looks like it will have no headroom at all! Like I said above, it looks like something from the '70s.
I'm sorry, but from the spy pictures I've seen, it's a major step backwards from the LH cars.

emale · June 2003

headroom, i believe, is actually supposed to be better in the LX than the LH. plus seating position is supposed to be higher. the high beltline and low amount of side glass make the cars look like they don't have any headroom. that apparently isn't the case...

rusty104 · June 2003

Otto - any indication that either the "C" or the Magnum will have supercharger as an option?

ottowrkr · June 2003

Now dont go and quote me on this but I have heard talk about this on the PVO cars. Supercharging the HEMI to get over 400 H.P. Dont know if its true ,but thats what I have heard.
dont you just love the short glass on the doors.

fsv · June 2003

short glass may be is not good looking and visibility sucks - but, the other day I drove Suzuki Aerio, which is a very nice car, BTW, but - the windows are large and under your elbow - I had an uneasy feeling when passing or being passed - something deep inside me was saying: "Don't fall out!!! Don't fall out!!! Don't fall out!!!" I totally didn't feel protected for all the time. It was like a magic carpet flight... So, there are always pro and contras. But - both car look cool. Somehow it feels though, that Magnum's glass is not on one line.

rusty104 · June 2003

I think DC did a super job on styling. With a 120" wheelbase there should be plenty of passenger room too.

emale · June 2003

in regards to interior room, i did find one interesting stat in a recent 300c article in automobile mag. it said the 300c has 35.5 inches of rear seat legroom. that is actually less than the current 300m's leg room which is around 39 inches...! interesting since the wheelbase on the LH cars are only 113" vs the 120" on the LX.

rusty104 · June 2003

I looked on line for any reference to the back seat room of the "C" and only found this :"Its 3,048 mm (120.0 in) wheelbase makes for an accommodating rear seating area, with expansive leg and headroom plus shoulder space ample for three abreast in comfort." What magazine article did your info come from?

http://canadianautopress.auto123.com/en/info/prototype/view.spy?m- ake=Chrysler&artid=9757&pg=3

emale · June 2003

the one in the july issue of AUTOMOBILE magazine. not sure if this is on their web site or not...

rusty104 · June 2003

Couldn't find it on the web. Could the article have been refering to the 300C Roadster?

emale · June 2003

no rusty,

i bought the july issue of AUTOMOBILE mag last week and it contained an entire article dedicated solely to the 300C LX sedan...

ottowrkr · June 2003

Well us guys at the plant will be getting to see the Magnum and 300 this Monday . DC brought them to the plant this weekend. I have seen the Magnum in Detroit and love it , now I cant wait to see the 300.

emale · June 2003

hey otto....good news!!! keep us informed! hey, if you get a chance, hop in the backseat and check out roominess as compared to the LH cars...

rusty104 · June 2003

Otto, did you get to see the new "C", if so what did you think?

EMALE, what page was the article in Automobile Magazine on, my friend who works @ Barnes & Noble said he would copy it for me but couldn't find it anywhere in the magazine.

Thanks to both of you in advance.

emale · June 2003

rusty,

i read the july automag a couple weeks ago...and it has already been delivered to the recycling bin.

i guess you'll either have to go buy one yourself....or check it out at the local library...sorry!

emale · June 2003

rusty,

my boo boo...

actually the automobile mag i referenced might have been in the june issue instead of july. anyway, the cover had a picture of the 300c along with the wrx and a porshe. the 300c story was inside that edition...

ottowrkr · June 2003

sorry for not getting back sooner but have been so BUSY.
They brought a red Magnum with the 5.7 Hemi. It was a very sharp looking car. Looked just like the concept of the SRT-8. I really liked this one. They also showed a base 300 with the 2.7 ?? and it had 17 inch tires & hubcaps-YUK . I liked the car but I would not order a 2.7 or the crappy 17's . Now if the car had chrome 20's like the Hemi C concept , oh yeah. Anyway I know I am a little biased but I like these cars . I think I will get one of these , but will wait to see what the Dodge sedan looks like ,Charger ??
Well only 2 months left building the LH cars.

emale · June 2003

otto,

thanks for the report. did the base 300 look like the 300c concept...grill and all??

a_l_hubcaps · June 2003

ottowrkr-

Forgive the odd question, but they have 17" steel wheels and wheel covers on this thing? COOL! I'm in the hubcap business and I believe that's a first for passenger cars (the 2003 Dodge Ram 3500 Pickup was the first for trucks...it has 17" chrome wheel covers on steel wheels). Can you tell me what the hubcaps looked like? Were they cheap painted plastic ones, or something nice?

-Andrew L

rusty104 · June 2003

Thanks Otto, did you get to sit in the Magnum - front and back? How were the seats? Was there plenty of room in front and back?

Thanks for the correction emale, my friend at B&N thought I was nuts but now understands it was in the prev issue (which they dont have unfortunatly).

fsv · June 2003

incedently, does anyone here know what is the price for a set of Ultra High Performance All-Season or High Performance All-Season 20" tires? And how many people will want to lay out over 1000 for a set? My Accord developed a blister recently, so the Mishlin tire was 180+8 balance+20warramty+tax -- over 200 bucks each. And that's 17" tire for Accord which is pretty much every second car on the road. Here you are talking about extremely large tire for an ultra-high performance engine mounted on a heavy car - be realistic, guys. I don't like the smallish wheels/tires, but this is a necessary trade-off. wheels - On my Subaru a 16" wheel is $270. I need two wheels now - thank to Major Bloomberg taxes are higher and roads - worse. Also, chrome wheels look good - but on Lincoln LS I leased for 2 years those beautiful chrome rusted through quickly on one of the wheels and was not in great shape on others. I washed them with all the proper stuff they sell in car stores.

Otto, is there any chatter re. Charger (they have shown a while ago) or it's totally dead?

a_l_hubcaps · June 2003

fsv-

If you live in NYC, you should really consider getting a set of steel wheels for your Subaru, at least for winter use. I'm in North Jersey and the potholes are just unbelievable especially during the winter months. I love it, being in the hubcap business and all ;-) But those holes can really wreak havoc on large-diameter alloy wheels.

Anyway, returning to the topic, I think 17" is plenty big enough for the Chrysler 300. Keep in mind that the standard Concorde and Grand Marquis have 16" wheels, and the standard LeSabre and Avalon have 15" wheels. So if the 300 has 17" standard, it will already be ahead of the competition if you like large wheels. I do hope, however, that they don't use regular gray plastic wheel covers on the 300. Considering the elegant styling of the car, it really deserves something with a little chrome or stainless steel. The 1994-96 LH New Yorker had really beautiful 16" stainless wheel covers on the standard model, and Chrysler later cheaped out and switched to the painted plastic ones.

-Andrew L

fsv · June 2003

Andrew, any Idea where I can get two 16" BBS Subaru alloy wheels cheaply - used, but good ones? Style is as per the link: http://subaru.com/servlet/research?track=shopleftnav_pa3&trim- =L_SEDAN_SE&model=LEGACY&command=photos

I would have gotten steel wheels, but now I want to sell Subaru alltogether...

a_l_hubcaps · June 2003

fsv-

www.aaarims.com wants $198 each. My interchange book (which is a couple years old) shows these as $220 each new from Subaru, so as you can see there isn't much savings unless the Subaru price has gone up a lot recently. Replacement alloys can be tough to find at a good price. You might be able to do better if you poke around online for awhile. I sell only wheel covers and center caps, not wheels, so I'm not fully tuned in to the wheel market in terms of what kinds of prices you can find. Good luck.

-Andrew L

fsv · June 2003

I was looking for a good used one. should be around 75 bucks.

Also, as an alternative to C300 a used Q45 or M45 from Infinity look very good. One offer more comfort, the other - sport.

ottowrkr · June 2003

yup the car looked just like the 300C without the big rims. As for the wheel covers sorry they were nothing special and I could not tell you what they looked like if I had to. All I know they did nothing for the car.
No we could not sit in the cars , they were roped off , guess they figure the plant workers would wreck them ??? .
The 300 with wheel covers had 17 inch rubber and the Magnum with the aluminum wheels had 18's, I hear a 20 inch rim will be available on the top of the line performance models.

Dodge Magnum

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