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Just what is a good deal?
I would like to hear from all car buyers, and prospective car buyers. Just what do you really mean when you say "I just want a good deal?"
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Mackabee
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Mackabee
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That's after you gave away the new car and gave them $1K over retail book for their trade.
If it's a truck, considering it's a $100 over deal, you also gave them a receiver hitch, bedliner and a bug shield.
Seriously though, to me if I can get a car for less than I actually paid for it then I didn't get the best deal I could.
For example, if I buy a new Accord for $500 over invoice when they would have let it go for $100 over invoice, I don't see how that is a good deal. I know its only $400 but for that much I could get a cd-changer put into my Miata
Figuring out how much the dealer will actually take for the car is the hard part.
1. I found a car I like, equipped the way I like, and...
2. the price was reasonable; that is, I'm not obsessed with putting the salesperson into a fit of rage or into the poor house. I don't feel like it has to be low enough to brag about, but it should in a range that I'm happy with the cost/value equation.
3. I got reasonable financing, which given my current credit, would be quite a feat!
4. In the end, I felt like the whole deal was pleasant; I didn't chisel or get chiseled, I liked the sales and F&I staff, got what I was promised in the time frame that was promised.
When I buy a car, I usually just go to one of the dealers that participate in the AAA program, which is supposed to be 5% over invoice, no negotiations needed...that usually works out to about 10% under sticker, and I am happy just to not have to dicker with someone who wants to run a sales pitch on me.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The only thing I don't like during a deal is when I get lied to. Like when I was once opening negotiations with a sales person who tried to tell me that the 2K Adjusted Market Value sticker on a Mazda MPV was for Dealer prep. I would have continued to deal with him had he only told me that it was what his dealership felt the market would bear.
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Mackabee
For me a "good deal" can't be separated from the buying experience. It's not the dollars. It's how I felt about the experience then and afterwards.
Craig (Isellhondas) and I agree about one thing in particular. A car is worth what it's worth. I have no trouble valuing a vehicle in relation to my wants and needs, so I'm not fixated on invoice or MSRP. If I bargain hard, it's only because the vehicle is not worth anything near MSRP to me. If I bargain easy, it's because I think the manufacturer's price is reasonable or if anything represents a bargain. If we don't get to my number, we don't do the deal. Price per se is a neutral.
So for me a good deal is one where something happened that "delighted" me. I won't say "exceeded my expectations" because like it or not that bar's not very high when it comes to car buying.
A bad deal is one where an otherwise good transaction is spoiled by last minute ploys or disappointments. I admit that I'm one of those weak people who will not walk out over a last minute fast one as I've already mentally purchased the vehicle. But while I may go through with the purchase, I do have a long memory.
Finally, a no-deal is one where the ploys or playing down to type takes place early in the experience.
CWJ
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
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Mackabee
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Mackabee
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I may have totally misjudged the value of the car at the time I cut the deal. But that's MY misjudgement. I have bought new cars that at the time I considered bargains that have significantly underperformed (both Fords BTW). And then I've bought a new car where I felt I had paid "all the money," only to be pleasantly surprised at how much better than that it proved to be in the long run.
I see and appreciate the point you're trying to make, but for me they're separable. Did I get a good deal, did I get a good car, and the relation between those two - did I get value for my money.
CWJ
And a good deal is the price we settle on, not the price plus some extras.
Determine the absolute lowest price you would accept for a vehicle, and then add 2%. That would give a price that could be called a "good deal".
- no hassles to sell me mop-and-glow or life insurance or whatever
- 1 hour or less spent in the dealership, which basically means the negotiations cut right to the bottom line.
My last two cars have met this list, and as a result I never went to more than one dealership for each one.
Trades haven't really been an issue recently, haven't had one for the last three cars I've bought, so I don't know how that factors in to a good deal.
I don't really look at price vs invoice as the definition of a good deal. That is a factor, but some cars are priced correctly, others have an artifically high MSRP.
Just kidding. No knickers in a twist please. :^)
I compared features on them very carefully, and an Odyssey LX (at MSRP +) was a lot more expensive than the Sienna at invoice + 2% - rebate, even though they were almost identically equipped.
In my area (Boston suburbs) it was impossible to even find an Odyssey to test-drive. And I needed a van *right away* as my old van had gotten totalled by a bus. I couldn't wait 8-12 weeks for an Odyssey to come in.
How about explaining what a good deal is from a salesperson's point of view? At the end of the day when the SM slaps your back and says "Mack, you made a lot of good deals today", what does he mean?
Billy~
I am a auto broker!
"every dealer has hidden profits and they get to keep all there holdback which is 2-5% of the total or base MRSP."
"Hidden profits" means they're lying or cheating - neither is a very nice thing to say, especially when you mean ALL dealers.
I did purchase two vehicles from the same dealer last year, both PT Cruisers. The first one I purchased, I got 3 weeks before Chrysler instituted the 7 year/100,000 mile powertrain pledge. That, and the unpleasant experience I had with the F&I man, soured the experience somewhat. It didn't change the deal I got and the very pleasant experience I had with the salesperson, however it left me feeling a bit cheated.
A few months later, I decided to replace my other vehicle with a second PT Cruiser. My wife loved hers so much I seldom got to drive it. :-D The same dealer showed exactly what I was looking for on their online inventory so I called my salesperson again to ask about it. In the course of the conversation, I indicated my displeasure with the F&I man and the salesperson promised me it would not be a factor this time. He was right, I didn't deal with F&I at all. Any papers I needed to sign were brought to me at the salespersons desk, he knew that I had already arranged financing and would not be adding additional items.
I found that transaction to be very satisfactory.
I must point out that I didn't pay ADM on the Ody (dealer offered it at straight MSRP + fees) -a "one-pencil" deal, no fuss or bother. There are advantages for building strong business relationships with car dealerships and their personnel.
I was going to be nice, but I must say you simply don't know what you're talking about.
You should quit trying to sell everyone on this antiquated (that means old) notion of selling cars using a broker and stop bashing the dealers by spreading lies about their profit margins.
Your information is completely incorrect and you should be ashamed.
I believe a GOOD DEAL is a perception. if the instilled value exceeds the RETAIL COST of any product, THATS a GOOD DEAL
You said a couple hundred over invoice plus the dealer keeps the rebate. Why?
Anyone, going through a broker or not, is entitled to any rebate they qualify for.
I'm not being negative - you just appeared out of nowhere slamming EVERY dealer and EVERY salesman, saying that your broker business is the only way to buy a car without getting ripped off. That's pretty negative, and VERY wrong, as in incorrect.
If you were a salesman before doing your broker thing, I take it you couldn't hold a gross, so it's easier to cast stones at dealers and sell cars at $100 over?
I'm done with you on this one - you're out of your league.
Huah on the soldier thing. 10 years in the Air Force, mostly deployed to "forward operating locations" with a DOD squad. 10 years in the car business after that.
You should never slide a rebate if it's out there.
I always (when it fleet) gave my quote minus the rebate - it's a "customer cash incentive" not dealer money.
Sorry about the "league" comment. You came out swinging and I think some of the things you're saying are incorrect. That doesn't mean that with help from some of the dealer folks here, you can't get a few avenues to get around any quote and rebate problems you may be having.
It's just that after 2 years here and getting bashed from both sides: the consumers don't like some of the things I say because I'm ex-car business and the salepeople don't like it because I'm a dealer fraud investigator.
Did you do any time in the car business?
Because most folks only want to PAY wholesale when the trade is resold. . . Not to mention the beating used car values have taken due to new car incentives.
FYI, maximizing profits, per se, is the goal of every business. It's why you don't charge $10 for your services. Assuming you intend to turn a profit with your broker business. I'm sure that if your customers were perfectly happy paying $500, that is what you would charge. Your rate is probably just below what you've found that your customers would object to paying. That is maximizing your profits.
Another question. It sounds like you just solicit quotes from different dealers. If you know what a good deal is (you said you did) why wouldn't you just present this amount as an offer on behalf of your customers? Can you, in good conscience, let your customers accept a deal if it is above what you "know" a good deal to be?
Sure, the law of averages will bring the gross profit numbers up, but dealers don't make $3K every deal like people think.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd quote prices without rebates when incentives are an either/or proposition, i.e. rate or rebate. I personally feel it's misleading to quote a price with the rebate applied when you know your customer is more interested in the financing incentives like 0%. I always tried to make it clear to folks though that they'd still get their rebate if that was the option they chose.
As I said before, you could charge $10 for your services. But instead, you charge $200 (I believe that's what you said). Who's pocket is that extra $190 coming from? The Government's? Your next door neighbor's? I think you'll find that if you actually think about it, you'll find that you maximize your profits at your customer's expense. How could it be any other way?
Another question. Do you send out emails and then recommend whoever provides the lowest quote? Do you negotiate with the dealer at all? And assuming you've thrown out all the quotes you feel are too high, how do you know that with a little negotiating they couldn't end up much lower than anyone else? By throwing out initial high quotes it just sounds like you are avoiding doing the negotiating work that people are paying you to do.
Also, is your service based solely on selling price? For example, if a dealer that you know has a terrible reputation for service gives you the lowest price will you still recommend that your customer buy from them?