Mazda6 Maintenance and Repair

jstandefer · December 2003

As I replied in the other forum, I am not willing to distribute copies of the press release since it is authored under the 4DoorZoom name. Sorry. When the time comes, it will be distributed to anyone that wants it.

audia8q · December 2003

yeah corps sure hate class action suits...and in the end the consumers get a $25 coupon off their next purchase and the lawyers get millions of dollars.

The only people who win in a class action suits are lawyers....consumers end up with little or nothing.

jstandefer · December 2003

Now, now... let's not bring the class action against Microsoft into this. :-)

newcar31 · December 2003

"and in the end the consumers get a $25 coupon off their next purchase and the lawyers get millions of dollars."

Even if that was the case, it's better than getting nothing at all and letting Mazda get away with this. If this does turn out to be a bigger issue down the road, I won't want Mazda getting away with it. If my car is going to have corrosion issues, then I think Mazda should be hit hard.

1wiseguy · December 2003

I don't want to hit Mazda, hard or otherwise. I bought the 6 because I thought it was something special and nothing has changed.

All I'm saying is that the "fix" shouldn't be dismissed as an attempt by Mazda to avoid their obligations, because they have surely been advised internally about the pecuniary risks associated with a class action suit. Basically, if the fix doesn't work, then Mazda has a lot to lose.

I am therefore confident that Mazda will do what it takes to ensure that people with corroding 2 year old cars get appropriate repairs, whether or not they have officially extended or expanded the warranty.

ashutoshsm · December 2003

It does get tiring to hear people threatening all and sundry (and particularly Mazda) of dire onsequences without first patiently awaiting the results and effectiveness of the fix.

It may eliminate the issue, or it may pop up again in 9 months. Either way, you're covered. So quit whining and start driving

newcar31 · December 2003

"It does get tiring to hear people threatening all and sundry (and particularly Mazda) of dire onsequences without first patiently awaiting the results and effectiveness of the fix.

It may eliminate the issue, or it may pop up again in 9 months. Either way, you're covered. So quit whining and start driving

"

Are we covered? How are we not waiting patiently for the results or effectiveness of the “fix”? What other option do we have now BESIDES waiting? Some people have faith in the fix, I don’t. For me, waiting to see if the fix is effective is like waiting to see if gummy bears get rid of migraine headaches. Even if we are “covered” in case the fix doesn't work, what does that mean? I might get new doors? Screw that. I don’t even want new doors. I don’t want ANY body work done to my car. As far as I’m concerned, the damage is done, and I’m not happy. The “whining” isn’t going to stop. I am not going to forget about this and be happy about my car. I went from being a happy, 3 time Mazda owner, to someone who sometimes wishes that Mazda would go out of business. There really isn’t much Mazda can do to remedy this situation because they will NEVER be able fix my car so that it is in “new” condition.

gee35coupe · December 2003

Used cars are usually the first step to car ownership. What are these cars going to be like in 8 years on the used car lots. If this "fix" doesn't work, Mazda is setting itself up for a backlash that will start from a very significant source of future buyers.

barich1 · December 2003

I've found, on my car, stains that look like they could be rust.

The interesting part of this is that my car is not a 6. It's a Protegé5. And the stain comes off without issue. Isn't it entirely possible that the stains on the 6 (which look very similar to the ones on my Protegé5, although in different areas) are also not rust? Isn't it possible that Mazda is telling the truth and everyone is only too happy to disbelieve them because they'd rather think the worst?

Just because it looks like rust doesn't mean that it is. And since Jerry has postponed (eliminated?) the lab testing, it doesn't look like there's going to be proof either way anytime soon. Why not take Mazda at their word for now and enjoy driving your car? There's no reason not to; you've still got plenty of warranty left and if it gets worse (or does turn out to be rust) I'm sure Mazda will take care of it.

gee35coupe · December 2003

That DOES look like a stain.

newcar31 · December 2003

that are on my 6.

"There's no reason not to; you've still got plenty of warranty left and if it gets worse (or does turn out to be rust) I'm sure Mazda will take care of it."

Take care of it how? That's my point. Who wants 4 doors that don't match the rest of the car? Who wants Joe-six pack-marlboro man at the dealer tearing apart their door panels?

jstandefer · December 2003

Those are just from the rubber stoppers. Every car has those. Besides, they look nothing like this:

Or this:

jstandefer · December 2003

The main reason for the delay is that we need to raise about $2,000. If I could afford it myself, I would just pay for it. If everyone on the 4DoorZoom rust list could contribute $20, we could get the tests completed. However, with Christmas looming, it would be easier on everyone to wait until after the new year.

seaf · December 2003

Those protoge pictures do look like regular stain that gathered at the seams over time when dirt gathered and then washed off multiple times. Very different than the Mazda6 pictures.

As for class action lawsuit not changing anything? How about the fear that it instills in other major companies that they are liable for their products' quality? If it weren't for class-action lawsuits, you think we would have employement benefits? how about non-discrimination workplaces? buying products as advertised? or even safe products? None of this would exist if it weren't for a few major class-action lawsuits in the past. I don't care if I only get a $25 check in the mail, I want Mazda be more responsible and correct their mistakes to satisfy owners, and maybe other manufacturers will take this as a lesson to not try to bully the consumer after the sale is made.

vkar · December 2003

Does anyone know if Edmunds, Car and Driver, Auto Trend etc are aware of this issue? Or any media outlet for that matter?

A rep from Mazda told me last week that Mazda might make an announcement on this issue, but she now says that Mazda has dropped that idea since they believe they have covered the situation pretty well with the TSB.

jstandefer · December 2003

I know someone had e-mailed Edmunds about it so they could check their long-term 6. I think this happened sometime just after the issue hit this forum. I can't remember if I read it here or in the other forum.

vkar · December 2003

Does anyone know if Edmunds, Car and Driver, Auto Trend etc are aware of this issue? Or any media outlet for that matter?

A rep from Mazda told me last week that Mazda might make an announcement on this issue, but she now says that Mazda has dropped that idea since they believe they have covered the situation pretty well with the TSB.

jstandefer · December 2003

Ok... I was bored, so I ran a search in the other forum. Someone e-mailed Edmunds on 10/3.

jasks · December 2003

Thank you for the info about the break pads. Pls do let me know how you go. Would it void the warranty if non-mazda pads are used.?
This rust problem looks pretty serious. My 6 is black so it's a little hard to see. Will check to make sure ....

vkar · December 2003

Sorry....I didn't mean to post it twice. It happened when I refreshed the page.

vkar · December 2003

I just wanted to have a look at the contents of the press release, as in the points that it raised.

six4me · December 2003

I see the posts and the old ones where the TSB was referenced, and then a follow up message about NOT being able to send out the 4doorzoom TSB? Where is it now, why can't it be sent out? WHat are the VIN ranges that are "supposedly affected?"

Thanks!

sepangm6s · December 2003

Does anyone else notice that the cooling fan seems to kick in and run a lot more on their 6 than most cars? Mine sometimes kicks in as soon as I start the car, then acts like it can't decide whether to cut out or to continue to run. Also, after shutting the car off, it continues to run for several minutes afterwards. Anyone else have this issue with their 6?

cop414 · December 2003

To all concerned-
I ordered the rotex front brake pads on Friday, received them yesterday. My mechanic will install them tomorrow morning-I'll let everyone know how I make out.
As far as the warranty is concerned. I do believe that brakes are considered a "wear" item and are only covered for 12,000 miles. I'm past that so it doesn't really matter to me, but if anyone out there is considering them and is with in the warranty peroid I'd check with your dealer first.
Wish me luck.

jstandefer · December 2003

It sounds like your fan's control unit is probably bad. This has been discussed quite a bit in the other forum and this is not an uncommon problem. Your dealer should be able to fix it. Here's the Mazda repair info:

ERRATIC OPERATION OF COOLING FANS
Applicable Models
Model Starting S/N Ending S/N
2003 MAZDA6 00000000 ZZZZZZZZ

The customer may complain of the following: 1. A/C doesn't cool well. 2. Engine's cooling fans run all the time, even with the A/C in the "off" position. 3. Engine runs hot (overheat). Replace the Electric Fan Control Unit. It is mounted the top of the left fan shroud. The part number is AJ51-15-15Y.

cop414 · December 2003

To the members of the squeaky brake club-
I had my local Midas shop install the Rotex pads today. So far so good. I have a very occasional "peep" of a squeal every now and then. It has been raining here hard for the past 24 hours-I would assume that the pads are more likely to squeal in wet weather.
Does anyone know if the new pads get louder or quiter as they break in? Midas told me that they may squeal a bit until they're broken in.
I'll keep everyone posted as the miles pile up.

chikoo · December 2003

regarding the source of the stain. I personally looked at couple and they did not look, let alone feel by touch like dry surface rust.
I advise everybody who has them to wipe it off, before it becomes a permanent feature on your car.
why would you like to inflict this pain on your own beloved car? I had 2 spots 2 months ago. I wiped them off and has never returned, even after snow and rains.
what does that say?

arockwel · December 2003

I still haven't seen from anyone, on this board or "the other board", definitive proof that it is, in fact, rust. It looks like it to me -- but is it really? No one can seem to provide the answer. You would think after all these weeks and months since this issue surfaced someone could provide proof that the staining is rust...

jstandefer · December 2003

If you give me about $2,000 I can give you a definitive answer. Or you can come look at my car and see the cracking and flaking paint. But, mine is not your typical staining pattern... it doesn't rain enough here to flush it out into the visible areas. And, mine is not isolated to the TSB area either.

accord7 · December 2003

I don't own a 6, but currently drive a 1995 Accord. When my car was just a few months old, I noticed what appeared to be rust around the drainage holes in the trunklid. I started to panic, but found I could wipe off the stains that were there. They have never returned. I only post this to show that likely a lot of cars have staining. I do believe that some really have rust problems on the 6, while others only have staining. Mazda's TSB resolution should satisfy some, but not those with major rust.

arockwel · December 2003

Does it really take $2000 to figure out if it is rust or not? Yikes. However, if you say the paint is cracking and flaking then that sounds like rust to me. I think (hope) your's is an isolated case. Anyway, could you give a link to pictures of your car with the cracking paint? Most of the pictures I've seen show a rust-colored "stain" that wipes off but really no pictures of flaking paint and such...

ashutoshsm · December 2003

An Accord had rust/stains? NOOOOO!!!! You blasphemer! Fie upon you! That isn't possible. You're lying! Go away!

chikoo · December 2003

the flaking would have not occured had you wiped them of the first time you saw them. Or you did wipe them off and the stains returned? Sorry I forget. could you refresh my memory?

newcar31 · December 2003

"why would you like to inflict this pain on your own beloved car?"

"I think Mazda is telling the truth"

"the flaking would have not occured had you wiped them of the first time you saw them."

HUH????? You can't be serious? I have never heard anything so ridiculous in my life.

Wipe the "stains" off and his car wouldn't have paint bubbling and flaking with rust? How is it that us rusters are "inflicting pain" on our own cars? Oh I see, it's OUR fault, not Mazda's.

Chikoo, what is your agenda?

jstandefer · December 2003

The paint was already flaking and chipping off when I first looked after reading about the rust/staining. Remember, although I have owned this car for nearly 5 months, it was built a year ago. The flaking and chipping are occuring on edges... and there is no staining on the paint itself. It is rusting under the paint and causing the damage as it slowly spreads. I'm sure with the rain we are supposed to get, it will accelerate.

jstandefer · December 2003

The problem is this: Mazda's theory and the rust-believers' theory have one correct fact... there is staining on the paint. According to Mazda, the staining was caused by a negative interaction between the assembly lubricant. According to the rust-believers, the staining is bleed from rust occuring in the sash cavity. The only way to prove either case is through scientific analysis.

The $2000 would cover testing by a metallurgy laboratory on six staining samples and two lubricant samples. The analysis would determine the presence and amount of rust particles present in the staining. It will also determine the chemicals used in the assembly lubricant and whether it has any relationship with the staining.

This $2000 is more than just a simple test for iron or rust presence in the staining. I could take a sample from any exterior surface of the car and find rust presence from road debris, fallout, and "rail dust." Heck, you'll find rust presence in tap water.

audia8q · December 2003

I would love to see the results...either way. This would put an end to the "yes it is, no it isnt" debate...If the people who are convinced its rust can't come up with $2000 on a sure thing its makes me wonder how serious they are. If its such a sure thing, I am sure the person who spent the $$$ to determin the results would be the first to file a lawsuit and potentially gain alot more than $2000.

mazda6s · December 2003

Seems like if someone on the Mazda side is sure it isn't rust, they would put up the $2000 to prove it isn't. $2000 is small change for a company that spends millions on advertizing. If Mazda paid an independent lab to do the test, wouldn't it be a big PR boost for Mazda to publish these results?

Unless of course they've already done the test and know that the "staining" is really a result of the rust and not the soapy solution. Of course the lab would have signed a non-disclosure agreement beforehand and could never reveal the results.

audia8q · December 2003

Since mazda has already issued its response and fix for the problem, then I would say its finished business until somebody can prove its wrong and not working...

but I still think if somebody is so convinced they are wrong, then $2000 seems like a drop in the bucket to be a hero. If mazda did nothing and did not issue a fix, then I would agree with you.

chikoo · December 2003

my agenda is make everyones life NOT miserable.

I am speaking from my experience with my car and two others I saw at the dealers lot.

I had 2 of those "orange" stain spots on my car too, when I bought my car, straight off the truck. I wiped them off immediately and they have not returned. even after numnerous rains and a snowstorm.

What I am implying is since this lubricant is "corrosive" per the TSB, it makes sense to wipe that lubricant and the stains ASAP. no point in keeping them there only to prove it to the dealer that my car is rusting.

I am presenting to you that it is possible that the corrosive lubricant MAY, over time, eat thru the paint. Why do u want this pain to be inflicted upon your beloved Mazda6? knowingly?

unless....

aromas · December 2003

If this lubricant is corrosive then it's big trouble because simply wiping off what you see is not doing much as this "lubricant" would obviously have penetrated deep into the seams and good luck trying to wipe that off. The Mazda "fix" would then seem not to solve the problem as it would be impossible to effectively clean off this solution so deep inside the cavity. So chikoo thanx for basically proving our point that our doors will eventually corrode over time even if Mazda is right about what caused this. I would be really looking at your doors over the next several years, but then again "out of sight, out of mind," right. I wish I could have your attitude. You must be leasing.

As for an owner putting up $2000.00 of their own money to prove something and then file a lawsuit . What exactly would you be getting back? Besides losing 2K and lawyer's fees(which will be more) the best case scenario is getting a full refund. I don't think the court is gonna award money for pain and suffering. Technically Mazda doesn't have to do anything unless there is perforation. You wouldn't be getting jack squat from a lawsuit. This is about Mazda owning up to their big screw-up and treating thier customers with respect who shelled out alot of money for a new car, not by insulting us by insisting it's a minor faux pas and there's nothing to worry about. I get the impression that some think that the affected owners are on some type of crusade to put Mazda out of business. I spent alot of money for this car and I think I shouldn't have to worry that my doors will corrode from soap or rust. I don't want to be a hero I just want to get what I paid for. I just feel sorry for the people who have no clue about this and will get screwed later when they find out the hard way. Eventually this problem will get out in the press and in the long run Mazda will suffer and then the same people defending Mazda now will denounce Mazda for not nipping this thing in the bud and being unprofessional. I think it's called hindsight and it's always 20\20 isn't it. You guys are priceless. You should get the Mazda emblem tattoed on your butt.

jstandefer · December 2003

Looking at other manufacturers' warranties, such as Mitsubishi, there are two different areas. The first is perforation, regardless of cause. The second is corrosion caused by a manufacturer's defect or workmanship. The first is covered by the perforation warranty and really applies to corrosion resistance of the metal and anti-corrosion coating, such as galvanization. The second is covered by the standard bumper-to-bumper warranty.

I plan on pursuing the testing after the 1st of the year. If everyone that is on the 4DoorZoom rust list could contribute $20, we could get this done relatively painless. If the results come back in Mazda's favor, then we just all get the TSB and move on. If the test shows rust and no relationship with the assembly lubricant, then I would assume we all would join in a united front to get the problem properly fixed, which would mean to total removal of rust and a full repair including repainting the affected areas, if possible.

aromas · December 2003

Even if we get this test done and Mazda is correct in their diagnosis their TSB says that this soapy crap is corrosive so our doors are gonna eventually rot anyways because of the location. We are up a certain creek without a paddle. Unless someone can explain to me how the dealer can get into those teeny, weeny little seams and give it a good flush. I don't think Roto Rooter could do that.

mazda6s · December 2003

Can anyone say for sure when the problem was corrected at the factory? I'm still considering getting a Mazda6 but not unless I know it was built AFTER the correction. Judging by some of the reports we've been getting here, the VIN range provided by Mazda seems to be inaccurate. We've even heard of 04 models with the problem.

Of course, if it isn't the soapy solution at all but really that they aren't finishing the doors properly, then it might not even be fixed yet.

One of my local dealers has a car with exactly the options I want, but if I can't resolve this I'm not even going to consider it.

arockwel · December 2003

I still would like you to provide pictures that show the chipping and flaking paint from your 6 so I can see for myself. I hope you get this resolved by Mazda...

bluem6i · December 2003

I have been following the rust issue with great interest because our 6i is infact rusting, complete with flaking and bubbling paint. It is definitely NOT a stain.

For those of you that only have a stain that wipes away and doesn't return, count your blessings, but please quit insulting those of us that have actual rust on our cars. We are not making it up just to create a controversial topic to discuss.

Whatever the reason, Mazda owes us an answer and a viable remedy. I reported this to Mazda USA and to my dealer befor the TSB was issued. I have not returned to the dealer since then, but will discuss it with them on my next service appointment. I may end up with one of the "case by case" solutions, so I am withholding judgement of Mazda for now.

Jstander, I did report this to 4DoorZoom and am willing to contribute to the rust testing costs.

seaf · December 2003

This rust/stain issue is not about money for the individual Mazda6 owner. It is about the reputation of Mazda. If they handle situations like this, it leaves a bad impression on current owners and future possible owners. I know if I didn't buy my mazda6 before I knew about this rust issue I would not be buying it now the way things are.

jstandefer · December 2003

I've tried taking pics many times, but my digital cameral won't focus properly that close. I'll have to find a 35mm SLR and a tripod to take decent pics. The white paint doesn't help much either as the camera can't figure out the correct contrast levels. Make that a fully manual 35mm SLR with a macro lens, light meter, tripod, and remote shutter release.

chikoo · December 2003

There appears from the descriptions that there are 2 types of people out there

1. Those who have stains on their MZ6
2. Those who have rust on their MZ6

Those who have the stain, the test is simple. wipe off the stain and take a close look at the underlying paint. if it is not bubbling, you should be fine. but remember to wipe off the lubricant from the rubber weatherstrip, since that is where the lubricant was applied and apparently seeping.

Those who have rust, undoubtedly they have a bad paint job on their car. Talk to the Dealer. a bad point job is unacceptable. a TSB ain't going to resolve it. And the bad paint job would be highly visible. no?

jstandefer · December 2003

The paint in my door sashes and weather stripping rail look like all they got was overspray. The primer is clearly visible in many areas, and the entire area feels like sandpaper. But, from what I have seen, this is not uncommon. It seems the darker colors have the better paint.

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