Mazda3 Hatchback

audia8q · March 2005

drop the attitude towards me....I posted exactly what the president of mazda said in a recent automotive news article. so if you dont like it, whine to mazda.

z71bill · March 2005

I would like to read this article from the Pres of Mazda. Can you provide me a reference to it?

Hard to believe he would actually comment on something as specific as the defective AC system in the Mazda3. Why the pres of a company would try and offer an excuse this lame is almost past the point of belief.

You claim he actually said that he knew the AC system in the Mazda3 would fall short of what USA customers would expect - but they went ahead and made the decision to sell it here anyway because it would save money. Is that really your story? OR - are you trying to spin a comment about Mazda trying to build a world car into an excuse why the AC system is so weak?

BTW - I may not agree with some (ok most) of the things you post - but I have no attitude towards you - I have pretty thick skin - so sometimes I may come off as a little bit harsh - In the future I will try and be more sensitive so that I don't hurt your feelings.

mdaffron · March 2005

... that the a/c system in the 3 is manufactured by the same company (er, it's not a "Mazda" product) that makes the one for the Mazda6 ... heck, it might even be the same unit. I don't see Mazda6 owners complaining about their a/c.

Meade

mdaffron · March 2005

After all, Honda seems to have its own share of a/c and transmission issues. You yourself posted this morning over on the Mazda3 Problems & Solutions discussion:

"I test drove several different 4 cylinder Accords - some were very ruff (in gear - stopped with AC on) some were smooth."

Seems it's a crap shoot with Honda! Be careful!

Meade

gee35coupe · March 2005

In the Civic forums. Nor any recent tranny issues for the Civic models.

audia8q · March 2005

Bill...if you have a subscription to automotive news just access their search page and read on.... I didn't say he said the A/C was defective...what I did say was that mazda has plans to build cars that have specific things that are geared towards a specific market....here is a summary of the Auto News article on what Americans want according to mazda.

Americans want less shift shock from automatic transmissions, even if it sacrifices power. They want less lane drift, even if that makes for a loose on-center feel from the steering wheel
Americans prefer bump absorption to a firmer, responsive ride, The American driver doesn't want to float down the road, but he does want isolation from hard shocks from impact strips or rough tarmac.
Seat backs and cushions are too small for many larger Americans.
Cupholders are too small for Big Gulps and Starbucks grandes.
Climate control systems may not suit all American personal preferences.
Mazda has been late to the party with telematics connections for iPod, Bluetooth, satellite radio and navigation systems.
Then there are problems with basic vehicle layout. The gearshift on the Tribute's steering column interferes with access to radio controls. While Japanese drivers like the MPV's windshield wiper controls on a single stalk, Americans like their rear-window wiper controls to be separate.
He said these changes would require technical measurements well beyond the scope of "seat-of-the-pants engineering."

Mazda's U.S. engineers will get assistance from parent Ford Motor Co. test centers in Michigan and Arizona. To be fair, Mazda developed much of its current product line when the company was under financial duress. That meant Mazda funneled r&d spending into making the Mazda3 and Mazda6 global cars, without looking at regional differences. Mazda is only now embracing the idea that there are major differences in vehicle dynamics among markets

z71bill · March 2005

Please don't point out any inconsistencies in my posts - it will make me cry!

The main reason I passed on the Accord EX Coupe (auto tranny) - was because of the - in gear at a stop sign with AC on shake. I could feel the vibration through the steering wheel - a new car should run smooth - period - even if it is designed for the world market and customers in Japan, Canada and Europe don't care about the shakes - even if the pres of Honda writes an article and gives a speech about trying to save a few bucks by not meeting customer expectations in NA - it is still not acceptable.

The thing that seemed strange to me was the Civic with the 1.7 L 4 was much smoother than the Accord with the 2.4L. I recall one post that claimed it had something to do with larger 4 bangers being hard to balance.

I hope the new Civic has the complete package - only time will tell.

mazda6s · March 2005

Well, I've been enjoying this exchange and I'd like to offer my $.02

Everything in a car design is a compromise. It's all a trade-off between cost and performance. From everything I've read on this problem, it would appear that in the case of the Mazda3 they undersized the AC, making it marginal in hotter climates. However, testing in hot climates would have revealed this problem. Don't the manufacturers test their cars in Arizona in the summer anymore? They could have shaved a few bucks off something else on the car and spent a little more on the AC, and still met their cost target. The interior volume of the Mazda6 is about 2% to 3% more than the Mazda3 and you don't hear many people complaining about the AC on the Mazda6. I suspect if they get enough complaints they will just increase the capacity of the AC in the future. Unfortunately that won't do much for current owners who find the AC to be inadequate.

autonomous · April 2005

Gary said:"Everything in a car design is a compromise. It's all a trade-off between cost and performance ... testing in hot climates would have revealed this problem (undersized AC). Don't the manufacturers test their cars in Arizona in the summer anymore?

Gary raises several good points about balancing cost and perfomance and about testing including specific components.

Testing in Hiroshima, Japan (latitude 36 degrees north) may yield different results than in Houston (latitude 30 degrees north) or in Ottawa (latitude 45 degrees north). Testing of weather sensitive equipment and things like A/C systems can thus yield perfectly acceptable results in one area until ... (and this is where Bill's concern about his comfort within his vehicle) customers complain.

How should a car manufacturer react? It would seem reasonable to me, that if the component created a serious problem (as in life/death) the issue should be addressed immediately. Otherwise, the issue gets "prioritized" (i.e. we'll get to that problem after we fix these urgent ones). It is also reasonable for the manufacturer to scope the problem, i.e. does it affect many clients or only a few. Returning to the beginning, if the problem is not fatal and affects only some, for example faulty AC problem reported in a geographic location (I think this was in part what Rich was saying) then unfortunately, it may not get done as quickly as if it was a "global" problem. I see that as one of the downsides of going global for consumers. We benefit from the reduced cost and the sharing of information across different lines (Ford/Volvo/Mazda/Jaguar) globally, but when it comes to dealing with client problems, unless the manufacturer is sensitive to local / regional / national concerns the issue may never get addressed or may get addressed more slowly than some would like. The link between the manufacturer and its dealership network is key here and industry leaders like Toyota seem successful in being profitable and keeping their customers satisfied. The last thing to thing to keep in mind is that most cars are composites of components produced by firms from around the world. This Lego approach makes sense only if the car manufacturer is supplied quality components. If a problem is detected with such a component, the manufacturer has to go after the supplier and then the whole cycle (prioritizing, scoping, client relations) starts afresh.

Personally, I think Mazda reacted in a reasonably timely fashion. The problem seems to have been corrected in the product line (possibly by a supplier change). What remains problematic is handling initial buyers of the product within specific regions (i.e. hot zones). Everyone knows that buying a new model runs risks, but I think Bill is right to expect Mazda/Ford as a good corporate citizen to propose some reasonable redress once the problem is raised. Expecting Mazda to buy back a car for a faulty A/C system is imaginative but not realistic; I would try for a good faith settlement where Mazda and I would share in the cost of the installation of a new A/C unit or some other practical solution. Obviously, as the consumer in this case, I would assume that Mazda recognizes its responsibilities and foots most of the bill. Of course, the other alternative, is I sell/trade in the vehicle.

mazda6s · April 2005

Does anyone know what they changed (if anything) to address the problem?

wvw · April 2005

Actually, I've read that foreigners think we are weird in our obsession with AC. They feel that a little sweat is obviously a part of what you get with warmer weather/seasons and think it odd that we make such a big deal of it. That being said, I'd be ticked if I were in your shoes since I DO care. My 3 's AC wasn't impressive, but adequate- my sister has a '96 626 and has never been very happy with the AC.

cti · April 2005

Ha! Let them live in the South during the summer. I think they might change their mind then.

The AC on my other car, a Kia, is fantastic. Haven't needed to go above '1' on the dial except when the AC gets too cold and I want a higher volume of air at a higher temp.

Haven't need to check the AC on my 3 yet, but I have a sunroof so I should be able to get rid of most of the heat by opening that.

Jason

jrct9454 · April 2005

...Mazda does their hot-weather testing in the California desert, not Hiroshima, like pretty much every other car manufacturer in the world [except the ones who go to Africa to do the same thing].

That said, there are indeed cultural differences about what constitutes "adequate" AC; the Japanese in general were criticized for a long time in this regard, and some car makers took it more to heart than others - most of the Toyotas we've owned since, say the late '80s, have AC powerful enough to drive you out of the car.

barry42 · April 2005

I don't think they have fixed the "opportunity"
I think they designed it "marginal" to help on gas mileage !!

autonomous · April 2005

...Mazda does their hot-weather testing in the California desert, not Hiroshima, like pretty much every other car manufacturer in the world [except the ones who go to Africa to do the same thing].
Thanks for the information.

My understanding is that a single architecture was used for the Mazda3, Volvo S40 and the Ford Focus.

Does anyone know:
- how many (--%) of the components are shared ?
- is the AC component of the Mazda3 also on any other model in the family?

z71bill · April 2005

Many good points on AC performance-

I guess it comes down to expectations - I have lived in Houston for almost 20 years - owned at least 10 different vehicles - driven at least 20 more - and was a passenger in way over 100 more on top of that. My expectations are based on a composite of the AC performance of all of these vehicles combined. The thing that sticks out the most is AC performance is something I did not even notice - you get in a hot car - roll down the windows - start it up - turn the AC on max / fan on high - drive 50-100 yards - roll the windows up and within a few blocks you turn the AC fan down to low because the car is cool. Only on the days where it is close to 100 degrees did I even even think - I wish the AC would hurry up and cool down - on these days maybe it would take an extra 10 minutes of driving before the car would be cool - and I need to leave the fan on medium speed to keep the car cool.

rshipp · April 2005

Sadly, I live in the Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas area, one of the largest radio markets in America. From the very bottom of the dial to the very top, morning, noon, or night, there are NO weak frequencies. I have just such an FM transmitter, and the results are basically unusable, i.e. tremendous amounts of static. I am despairing, since my iPod is basically worthless in this vehicle...I wish it just had a cassette player. Sigh.

Randy...

mazda6s · April 2005

And, I still have to ask why we hear so few complaints about the AC on the Mazda6 as compared to the Mazda3. They both use the same 2.3L engine and probably share some AC components, and the interior size of the Mazda6 is 2-3% more than that of the Mazda3. It makes me wonder if Mazda thought that Mazda3 buyers would have lower expectations for the AC performance than Mazda6 buyers.

gee35coupe · April 2005

Are all the parts the same. I'm sure there's more airflow through the Mazda6 front end. Just because the engine is the same doesn't mean all the parts are the same. Especially since the 6 is built in the U.S. and the 3 is assembled in Japan.

autonomous · April 2005

I forgot to let you know how much I (and likely others) appreciate your informative and cool-headed participation in this forum. Seeing different sides makes things clearer. Keep on posting!

dirkrandal · April 2005

Try searching crutchfield.com for an FM modulator. Most newer stereos have an input on back for an external anten. -- the FM modulator gives as good as sound as you'll get through FM.

mdaffron · April 2005

All the i's have been dotted and t's have been crossed, and I'll be taking delivery of my 2005 Velocity Red 5-speed Mazda3s wagon tomorrow or Friday evening.

This will be my fifth Mazda (previous cars have been two 1992 Protege LXs, a 1994 B2300 pickup and a 2000 Protege ES, which is my trade-in with 91,000 trouble-free miles). My wife drives a 2002 Protege5, so you can say Mazda is a family word at my house!

It really came down to a build-date vs. color thing. My first choice was Winning Blue, but I was going back and forth between that color, Lava Orange and Velocity Red. When the sales manager showed me where the port date was on the sticker, I made up my mind real quick! The blue one had a date of 10/21/04. The orange one was marked 11/22/04. The red one, hoewever, was 2/25/05!

By the way, after reading all of the hoopla about air conditioning over on the P&S discussion, I have to report this: It was almost 80 here in Richmond when I test drove the (blue) car yesterday. I took it straight off the lot, where it was sitting in the sun, and went for a 10-minute drive. I then parked it in the sun and let it idle with the a/c on for a few minutes. When I got back in it was nice and cool; my Protege doesn't stay that cold when the car's just idling! So I'm impressed -- and that was with a 2005 Mazda3 with a date of last October.

I've never had a red car; I guess my infamous driving habits will be under increased scrutiny now!

Meade

audia8q · April 2005

Meade...congrats on the new ride...I love the red!!

autonomous...thank you.

mdaffron · April 2005

It's the "mica factor" that sold me on the red. In the past I hadn't given the red 3 a second glance because I saw it from a distance and "assumed" it was just plain ol' flat red. But yesterday, as I was walking the lot, I happened upon one and it was in full sunlight. Man, that mica in the red paint makes it all glittery! Really, really cool! Hee hee, can't wait to hop in my little red kazoom ...

Uh-oh, I think I just coined the name for my new car. Zoomster, it was fun. Say hello to Kazoom!!!

Note: I am 40 years old. These cars do it to me. Blame them!

Meade

z71bill · April 2005

My AC does an OK job at 80 degrees - even if the sun is out - If I leave it on recirc and fan speed on 3. At 85 degrees or above is when my AC really starts to fade - which may sound strange because its only 5 degrees difference.

It is like it hits a point between 80 and 85 where it just can't handle the heat load being generated by the outside temp, sun (black interior does not help much) and the 98.6 degree people riding in the car.

We have been on a 50 mile drive - bright sunny 90 degree day - AC on max - car hot and sweaty even after 20 miles driving at 55-65 MPH - then the sun goes behind a cloud - and the AC seems to actually start to cool off the car - but as soon as the sun comes out from behind the cloud - the car starts to get hot again.

A new car should be able to handle 100 degree heat and still cool the car - on a sunny 90 degree day - if you want it to - you should be able to make the car down right cold.

:lemon: :lemon: :lemon:

backy · April 2005

Have you considered putting the dark tint film on the side and rear windows? I see that a lot in the South. Had it on my two mini-vans also and I think it helped--but they have so much glass area it's really necessary.

z71bill · April 2005

I do use a sunshade on the windshield when I parked in the sun - but don't really like the dark tint.

autonomous · April 2005

Bill said : It is like it hits a point between 80 and 85 where it just can't handle the heat load being generated by the outside temp, sun (black interior does not help much) and the 98.6 degree people riding in the car.

By Jove, I think you may have solved the AC mystery, Bill! Could the answer be ... no people in the car? Alternatively, there's cryogenics (for the car, that is).

85 is not that hot ... so I can see how this would be stressing. A trick I learned going to concerts in churches without air conditioning: bring a plastic bottle of frozen water.

backy · April 2005

Actually, Meade already hit on the no-people-in-the-car solution. Remember he said he drove the car for 10 minutes, then jumped out (no people in the car!), looked around it a bit, and when he got back in the car was cool. Don't tell Mazda, however--they might add this procedure to the owner's manual. ("To cool the car on a hot day, i.e. over 80 degrees F, start the car, turn the A/C on recirculate, get out of the car, run an errand or simply admire your Mazda3, then after a few minutes get back in the car and drive off.")

autonomous · April 2005

Backy said:Don't tell Mazda, however--they might add this procedure to the owner's manual. ("To cool the car on a hot day, i.e. over 80 degrees F, start the car, turn the A/C on recirculate, get out of the car, run an errand or simply admire your Mazda3, then after a few minutes get back in the car and drive off.")

Sounds like you have a bright future writing for the auto industry!

z71bill · April 2005

98.6 degree people do make a difference. I have worked on a few building projects where the engineer in charge of HVAC takes into account expected high & low outside temp, type of equipment that will be used in the building (PC's generate a lot of heat for example), type of building and the number of people that will be in the building plus a few other factors. It is very detailed and specific and comes up with the exact size the HVAC system needs to be to heat and cool the building.

Then they take this figure and DOUBLE IT to allow for the variations that every engineer that has ever really built anything knows will be faced in the real world.

Maybe Mazda used some new kid to design the HVAC system in the Mazda3 and they forgot (or didn't know) that the capacity needs to be X2 what ever the calculation says.

autonomous · April 2005

Bill said Maybe Mazda used some new kid to design the HVAC system in the Mazda3 and they forgot (or didn't know) that the capacity needs to be X2

Interesting comments about how the science needs the experience and so true!

I wonder if that proverbial new kid considered my dogs; put them panting at the back of your neck and you'll be tripling the AC quotient.

mdaffron · April 2005

The 3's air conditioner was produced by a company that builds car air conditioners, not Mazda. This was discussed about a year ago and someone found the name of the maker. I've got the link to their website somewhere; I'll try to find it. Mazda does not build the air conditioners for their cars, just like they don't build the radiators, alternators and other engine parts that are accessories to the main unit. They build the engine -- not the engine's accessories -- for the most part.

Meade

mdaffron · April 2005

In reading the owner's manual last night, I found two items that are listed as "some models" but I don't know whether my 2005 Mazda3s wagon has them:

-- Low washer fluid indicator light
-- Cabin air filter (part of air conditioning system)

Do our U.S. 3s wagons have those? I'm concerned about the filter because they recommend replacement something like every 5,000 miles, and I have no idea how much they cost.

Thanks!

Meade

gee35coupe · April 2005

But they do give the manufacturer the specs and requirements that need to be met. What they are saying is that whoever was calculating the thermal capacity of the A/C for this car goofed and didn't give it enought capacity to cool the car.

mdaffron · April 2005

It was about 80 when I picked up my new 3s wagon yesterday, and I had to turn the thermostat up because I was being frozen out of the car. BTW, my "build date" is 2/25/05.

Meade

mazda6s · April 2005

"But they do give the manufacturer the specs and requirements that need to be met. What they are saying is that whoever was calculating the thermal capacity of the A/C for this car goofed and didn't give it enought capacity to cool the car." ... to American expectations.

gee35coupe · April 2005

That they would know the different requirements by now. Mazda has been building cars for a while now. Heck, they are a division of Ford.

mazda6s · April 2005

Yes, I would think so.

klemklme · April 2005

I plan on buying a Mazda3 this spring......heard winter traction is AWFUL with the 17in wheels ! I'd guess a change of wheel & tire combo would be recommended for the winter. Also how is your AC ? Lots of AC complaints in the forum. I'm in D.C. also........ just wanted to pick your brain on your overall satisfaction of the Mazda3. And your dissatisfaction........... What was that suspension Thump !

npaladin2000 · April 2005

I'm very happy with mine. The A/C is perfectly adequate, but I definitely recommend getting snow tires (and it's easier to get snow tires if you get smaller rims...me I didn't have anyplace to put them).

Sometimes the suspension WILL feel like a "thump" over bumps...it's stiffer than "typical American" suspensions and takes a while to get used to. The increased handling prowess is well worth it. My last car never thumped, but it drove like a marshamallow and just couldn't handle turns.

mdaffron · April 2005

If you're a new 3 owner, check your tire pressure. I was astonished to find that all four tires on my brand-new '05 Mazda3 wagon had more than 50 pounds of air in them -- one had 53. The door label says they're supposed to have 34, and the tires themselves (Goodyear Eagle RSAs) say their maximium inflation pressure is 44. I don't know what Mazda Japan's smoking over there, but my tires were WAY overinflated.

Meade

kyfdx · April 2005

They overinflate them for shipping... Your dealer did a lousy job on the prep work.

regards,
kyfdx

jbollt · April 2005

My son bought a 3 hatch 2 weeks ago, in AZ. His tires were also too high, at 45psi. I had read about this situation on Edmunds in several other forums I follow, and figured it best to check his tires the day he bought the car. I also checked the oil level, and other fluid levels, as many dealers only install the antenna and wheel caps as part of their PDI, yet collect $ from the manufacturer anyway. I know of a dealer that used to charge the factory for one quart of oil for every new car they got, yet never added any oil! "How fast and cheaply can we get them to the front line?"

I think Edmunds is a great source of info, if one learns to recognize the few posters that have an agenda. There are others who post because they have discovered a "problem" with their beloved automobile, and are looking for soultions.

I have certainly found solutions to several minor issues from reading these pages, and other times found out about "idiosyncisies" I didn't know existed in my vehicles, and wish I hadn't read about them! LOL

PF_Flyer · April 2005

Almost chat time again! Find a friend to bring along tonight! See you shortly!!

PF Flyer
Host
News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles

The Mazda Mania Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

mdaffron · April 2005

No luck with a response a week ago, so here goes ...

In the manual it states that "some models" have a low washer-fluid light and a cabin air filter. Do any of you long-time 3 owners know if this is standard equipment on a Mazda3S?

Meade

audia8q · April 2005

The SP-23 comes with a A/C pollen filter. The regular 3 does not.

mazda6s · April 2005

Seems like you should be able to get a replacement pollen filter for a SP23 and install it in a "regular" Mazda3. ???

3zoom · April 2005

i am confident we don't have cabin air filter because when i went to
the dealer it only mention mazda 6 and others. Not m3.

Yes i believe we do hav e low washer fluid light but not 100% sure...u
can just spray it all up and see if anything light up. those fluid is
very cheap $1 a gallon.

hope that clear u up a lil

mdaffron · April 2005

Let's see how many of you know the answer to this. (It's a discovery I made last Friday when I was packing my new 3s wagon to the roof for a function at our ballpark.)

Have you noticed the pair of slots over on the left side of the cargo cover under the hatch (i.e. behind the rear left headrest), facing up? Do you know what they're for?

How handy!

Meade

Mazda3 Hatchback

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