Mazda3 Hatchback

chacobleu · October 2005

I don't think the Mazda unit uses GPS. I don't have the unit; not worth the $ IMO. And I'm constantly driving in circles. I would contact Mazda HQ and either ask a tech or get some literature on it.

The styling of the civic is at the bottom. Every other mfg. has a better looking econo box in their stable. Perhaps this new design allows for 1 or 2 more miles per gallon on the highway, compared to the competition. If that's the case, go for the insight. It looks and does what it does and looks, without apologies.

allfiredup · October 2005

Another benefit of the Mazda NAV system is that it folds down into the dash when not in use. It doesn't integrate HVAC/stereo controls into the touch screen like so many others do. A huge plus is my book!

But I don't really need nav, so probably won't get it anyway.

rorr · October 2005

"I don't think the Mazda unit uses GPS"

Where in the heck did you get that idea? As far as I know, ALL Nav systems use GPS. When you read that a system is "DVD based", that only means that the info regarding streets, highways, points of interest, etc. is stored on a DVD rather than on CD-ROMs or in internal memory.

bellamusica · October 2005

I am seriously considering the 06 5-door grand touring model for my next vehicle. I love the fact that it comes with some nice luxury features which make it easier for me to get rid of my current Audi.

One piece that concerns me, however, is the tire pressure monitoring system. I live in the Denver area and do quite a bit of mountain driving in the winter. Because of that, I generally purchase a set of winter tires (with wheels) and swap them with the all-seasons when the time is right. I read somewhere that TPMS systems make this a challenge.

Does anyone have some insight to this?

chacobleu · October 2005

I got that idea from process of illimination. All the lit I've seen on the Mazda unit never mentioned the GPS. If GPS is state-of-art, why does Mazda fail to advertise the unit as such? Conclusion: their system is not GPS

Having it and not advertising doesn't make sense. But possible. Now, instead of jumping all over my case about it, why don't you come to the table with some lit proving me wrong. Remember, the phrase "I don't think" doesn't equal "I know." Moreover, I instructed to contact Mazda HQ to prove me wrong. I'm sorry, was I to provide the 800 number?

"As far as I know"
BTW - How far is that?

chacobleu · October 2005

Try contacting the Tire Rack. When choosing the 3 S model on their website, the Tire Rack forces a further selection for vehicles with TPMS option. Their the experts.

Rorr
Should I or should I not include their 800 number? Hmmm? Decisions, decisions.

chacobleu · October 2005

Straight from the Mazda USA website

Navigation System

It's something almost unheard of in the compact car class: an in-dash navigation system. And yet it's available as an option on MAZDA3 s and SP23 models. GPS tells you where you are, and a DVD database of maps of the entire country can direct you to a specific address - or even help you find nearby gas stations, hotels, ATMs, hospitals and other locations. The color LCD screen rises above the dash to near eye-level, or you can lower the screen and let the voice system guide your way.

rorr · October 2005

First - it's the "process of elimination" not "illimination". Or were you trying to spell "illumination"?

Second - using GPS is hardly 'state-of-art' for Navigation systems. Using GPS is simply how navigation systems work. Kinda like wondering if a CD player is 'laser' based.

All navigation systems have three main components: Some means to store data in the unit with regards to the streets, roads, POI, etc. (the MAP), some means to present this data and take input from the user (the screen and controls), and some means to determine where the vehicle is in relation to the map. If there is NO means to determine where the vehicle is, it is NOT a navigation system. It is simply an electronic map.

The means to store the data can take many forms; the most common form for current systems is a DVD. Again, this is simply the MAP.

The means to determine WHERE the vehicle is in relation to the map is the role of the GPS. EVERY Nav system that I am aware of (including all Honda Nav units, Toyota Nav units, Ford Nav units, aftermarket nav units, etc.) use GPS. A GPS Nav system is hardly 'state of the art' if EVERY unit uses GPS. If you can find a Nav system which does NOT use GPS in some form, I would love to hear about it. But I'm not going to sit here and claim that I know precisely what 100% of the Nav systems use to determine vehicle position.

Finally, I did talk with a Mazda representative about the Nav system available as on option in the Mazda5. Not only does this Nav system use GPS, but that the system also monitors vehicle speed to update vehicle position on the map when the GPS signal is temporarily interrupted. Obviously, this is not 100% accurate as it can't tell when you turn off of one street onto another (unless it also reads data from the yaw sensors/steering wheel position as recorded in the vehicle stability control system) and as soon as the GPS signal is regained, the position is updated again.

reuel3 · October 2005

Let's be sure and keep things civil in the forums and refrain from any personal attacks. We provide this service to share information so everyone can benefit, and we expect that our members will conduct themselves appropriately. You are certainly more than welcome to share your personal opinions, but please do so without insulting other members.

Thank you for the cooperation.

daryl · October 2005

If you have the TPMS and replace the wheels, the system will be inactive and a warning light will go on in your dashboard. I don't know of Tire Rack's solution, but the only other alternative is to have the wheels fitted with that part of the TPMS system. It's quite expensive, probably about $400-500.
Daryl

mazda6s · October 2005

Doesn't Mazda use the inexpensive type of TPMS that just uses wheel rotation speed? In that case you could change wheels and it would recalibrate itself. I find it a bit of a stretch to believe that Mazda would use the more expensive system with sensors on the wheels.

claudius753 · October 2005

Sorry, I didn't know for sure if they all used GPS or not. It seemed to me that it would be pretty pointless without some way to pinpoint your location. Someone told me that the Mazda's system was 'less advanced' than Honda's. Now that I think about it, I suppose they were referring to the fact that Honda was voice activated, I don't think the Mazda unit is.

Does anyone know when the Mazda site will update with 2006 info? I was attempting to build a 3 but they still have 2005 info up. My SP23 ended up at $24,000! It was pretty much loaded. Too bad you need leather seats for the bose audio.

chacobleu · October 2005

Thanks for the english lesson. Looks like you been hanging out at the other Mazda 3 forum a bit too long.

As you can see, I brought the lit to the table. It took some navigating. Seems like Meade gets a lot of info from the same site; worked for me as well.

Now, about GPS not being state-of-the-art (hyphenated, btw). NASA uses it; the military uses it. Unless there's a more technologically advanced system that isn't priced at the level of an Exon/Mobil budget and is "laptop' sized, I'd say GPS is at the level of development reached at this particular time as a direct result of most modern methods (webster online, if you're wondering).

mdaffron · October 2005

I have a cell phone, a glove box stuffed with free maps from AAA, two good eyes and a mouth and ears -- the latter of which I've used on more than one occasion to ask locals where something is. (Ooops, guess I'm not a "real" man, huh?)

I chose to save the $28 per month ($1,700 / 60 months) for other stuff -- like being able to afford $3 gasoline!!!

:sick:

Meade

chacobleu · October 2005

I gather you don't drive in circles???

bellamusica · October 2005

Thanks for everyone's advice. I will research this further before I purchase my own wheels. I believe that I could still buy winter tires and have Discount Tires do the swap (as I assume that they are trained to deal with these things).

In any case this is not a deal-breaker. I just had to drop another chuck of cash on my Audi. It is time to make a change. I love the way my A4 drives, but it costs a fortune to fix it.

The fact that I can get the Mazda with leather and a stick is a happy thing for me.

mdaffron · October 2005

Only on off-ramps, dood.

Meade

rorr · October 2005

"Thanks for the english lesson."

No problem. I'm here to help.

"As you can see, I brought the lit to the table."

Kudos. As you can see, that lit was affirming what I had already said.

"Now, about GPS not being state-of-the-art..."

I never said it wasn't state-of-the-art. All I was trying to say was that if GPS is the method that all in-car navigation systems use to determine where the vehicle is located, then it doesn't make a lot of sense for manufacturer's to point out their navigation system is GPS based. I got the feeling that you didn't really understand the various components of a navigation system and that the fact that the Mazda3 Nav system is DVD based had nothing whatsoever to do with GPS.

Hypothetical: if someone asked if the CD player in the Mazda3 used a laser to read the disk, would you feel the need to dig up literature or a bunch of specs to show that, yes indeed, the CD player uses a laser? Or would you just point out that, as far as you know, ALL CD players use a laser? Would the use of a laser in a CD player be considered 'state-of-the-art' just because they are also used by NASA and the military in their CD players? (BTW - just because NASA or the military uses certain technology doesn't make that technology 'state-of-the-art'. Care to guess what generation of computer technology is currently used in the Space Shuttle?)

"The navi in the 3 isn't as sophisticated as the one in the Civic."

Based on.....? Could you bring some 'lit to the table' to support this? If the Nav in the Civic is voice activated (ie. controlled by voice commands, which should not be confused with voice prompts from the system), you could be correct. But I would also point out that some people prefer the type of system in the Mazda3 which controls the Nav system only (not the Nav, audio, and HVAC) and disappears from view when not in use.

BTW - I agree with you on the value of Nav systems. To me, they aren't worth the money. Of course, I don't find myself driving in circles very often either.....

pat · October 2005

are out of line and need to stop. We can have a conversation without sniping at each other and that's what we need to be doing. Thank you.

rorr · October 2005

Understood.

BTW - any lurkers in here with the Nav system in their 3? How well does it perform (ease of use, signal retention, map accuracy, etc.)?

mdaffron · October 2005

I don't have it in my 3, but I was allowed to "borrow" a NAV-equipped 3 from my dealership for an entire weekend about a year and a half ago. And of course, I played with the NAV system most of the time while I was driving it. (Which became the reason I didn't want it in my car -- I had a few close calls, almost hitting people in the rear at traffic lights while I was distracted by the doggone thing!)

I found it quite easy to use, and the map was accurate. (I even learned about an alternative route to a congested road I've been taking for years, down a parallel side street I didn't even know existed until the weekend I had this thing.) My sales manager told me an updated DVD would be available every two or three years to keep the map database accurate, and that the first upgrade would be free. (He didn't tell me how much later upgrades would cost.) The system had day and night illumination modes, but I found the "night" mode to be hard to see even at night. I did like the way the display could be moved through about a half-dozen angles, once open, to take care of glare. And I really liked how it popped up right out of the upper dash, so it was very visible in the driver's peripheral vision. (I can only imagine how hard it would be to read one of these things if you have to look down on the instrument cluster to read it!)

Funny thing -- on the ride back to the dealer, I had a fellow Mazda enthusiast riding along with me, and in his fiddling with the NAV, he got it speaking French, and we couldn't figure out how to get it talking in English again. And if that wasn't bad enough, he already had programmed in a destination of Nashville, Tennessee. (We were in Richmond, Virginia.) The entire route back to my dealership was due east, so the damned NAV was telling us to "Allez l'ouest, s'il-vous plait" at every freakin' intersection for 10 miles!!! :sick:

Meade

rorr · October 2005

LOL, that's rich. I wonder how long the dealership had to fiddle with it to get it out of French.

I knew the display popped up out of the dash but wasn't aware the angle could be adjusted. I can see where this would be a definite advantage compared to units which were built-in to the dash.

chacobleu · October 2005

Fine on everything except the "sophistication." That comment was made previously, based on one system having GPS and voice activation and the other not. I think the Mazda unit has verbal instructions like "turn left" or "turn right," but the Honda may be fully voice activated (like have a conversation with a robot)

One note on advertising GPS (vs. not) is that it is "catchy." Consumer eat that up all day long. FBI, CIA, DEA, DVD, GPS, IBM, DELL, etc., etc., etc. Why would Mazda not want to display the essence of their system? Big mistake, IMO.

rorr · October 2005

The Civic does have 'voice recognition' units available on the EX (meaning the unit can be controlled with voice command inputs). I don't know how many voice commands the unit recognizes; this information wasn't immediately apparent on my quick perusal of Honda's website.

Both the Mazda3 and the Civic Nav units use voice prompts (meaning the unit gives verbal directions).

I'll not debate what is an advertising mistake and what is not; I'm not in advertising. Since I understood that Nav systems use GPS to pinpoint vehicle location (other than the use of a sextant and taking star shots, is there any other way?), to me it was not important that this fact be advertised. However, I now understand that not everyone knows this, so I see your point that perhaps manufacturer's should continue to point this out.

Have a nice weekend.

z71bill · October 2005

Not sure where I read this -

Most nav systems will show where your car is on the map - but only a few are able to continue showing your location / giving detailed turn by turn directions if the GPS signal gets dropped (like when you go into a tunnel - or get blocked by tall buildings) the car keeps track of your direction and speed - so it can get very close to your location. Some less expensive nav systems just have the screen go to a general map when the signal gets dropped - when the systems first came out (Hertz never lost was the first I used) the screen would just go blank.

The only way I could justify the cost of the Nav system would be if I considered what it would be worth to know my wife or daughter would not need to stop in some strange place - at night - in a crummy part of town to ask some stranger for directions. The thing I don't understand is why the cost of these system has not dropped down more.

rorr · October 2005

After a conversation with a Mazda salesman regarding the optional system in the Mazda5 (so take this with a large grain of salt), he said that this Nav system kept track of vehicle speed to update the vehicle position in the case of a dropped GPS signal. However, he didn't think it could keep giving turn-by-turn directions since it couldn't sense vehicle turns, only vehicle speeds.

I'm with you on the cost. But if I was that worried about wife/family getting lost, aftermarket portable GPS nav systems are available for just a few hundred bucks. They don't have nearly the level of map detail of the pricier versions, and don't offer the voice prompts, but they should give enough info to get out of the 'crummy' parts of town and navigate the major roads.

fowler3 · October 2005

...have said that if the driver changes his or her NAV-designated route by turning onto another street or road, the NAV has to get a new GPS position, which can take five minutes, before mapping the new route to their destination. This means the driver has to pull off the road and wait for the satellites to spot (triangulate) his car's position.

And, No, honking your horn to get attention won't make the satellites work faster.

About the low tire pressure sensors: some buyers of 2004 models said Mazda uses a device in the tires which records speed. When the tires are changed new devices have to be installed in each tire. They are the lower-cost version.

fowler3

brd98 · October 2005

I am seriously thinking of Mazda3, the only hitch is that it doesnt offer traction control. Has anyone (who lives in the snowbelt regions) missed this feature during winter? I know it has ABS, but is this enough? I had a Civic w/o either and it was a nightmare during heavy snows

mazdaburgh · October 2005

I've had my Mazda 3 for one winter in the Pittsburgh area so far. Overall traction was good but just make sure you have decent tires.

autonomous · October 2005

just make sure you have decent tires.
I second that opinion!

mdaffron · October 2005

Has anyone (who lives in the snowbelt regions) missed this feature during winter?

Well, most people who drove a car between the days of Henry Ford and just a few years ago somehow dealt with winter driving without it, and most of them apparently did fairly well -- we're here, aren't we?

:P

Just remember, new innovations are nice, but life is still possible -- and enjoyable, I might add -- without such things as ABS and traction control.

Meade

baldes · October 2005

I live in pittsburgh too - planning to buy mazda3- is it good for the winter here. having had this car would you recommend this car for the snow belt.
I have got a price quote from a dealer for a mazda S (2006)for 17300 (without tax and plates) is that a good price,should i have to bargain further , if so what is a good price.
thanks in advance

backy · October 2005

Yes, most of them did fairly well w/o ABS and decent winter tires. But there are those who didn't do well... unfortunately they aren't here now to speak for themselves.

brd98 · October 2005

thanks for your input.

Did you have to upgrade to better tires than the stock tires (that come with the new vehicle)? I would assume they shd be good enough for a couple of winters atleast?

mdaffron · October 2005

Let's hear it for natural selection!!! :shades:

Hey all you Pittsburgh guys -- I wish I'd run into you about two months ago. My family and I piled into my 2005 Velocity Red hatch about a month ago and spent five very nice days in Pittsburgh with some friends who live near Harmony. Hey, grab me another case of IC Light, will ya? I just ran out!

Meade

modock · October 2005

Since we are on the topic. I was wondering what you guys use for your snow tires, how you like them and what you paid for them. I will be getting some soon and was trying to save some money as my wife's car was just hit and needs to be repaired. Thanks

chacobleu · October 2005

And life is much more fun with a 5-speed. In fact, traction control is another manual function of a manual. Kill the torque by starting in second or third gear and there's your traction.

mazda6s · October 2005

If you can't drive in snow without ABS and traction control, I hate to kill your hopes, but those aren't going to save you.

backy · October 2005

In the "old days", before ABS and traction control, people just used tire chains. Or studded tires. Can't use those anymore, at least not where I live.

In the 10 years (off and on) that I've had cars with ABS and traction control, it has been a car-saver (if not a life-saver) at least a couple of times, when some idiots swerved into my lane and I needed to either stop or get out of the way really fast, in icy conditions. It's times like these that features like ABS, traction control, and a good set of all-season or even winter tires come in real handy.

Now, do you suppose we could dispense with the "Why in the world would anyone need ?!?!" remarks when people ask a straightforward question about such things, and just help them out instead? Or if you don't think such features are necessary, for you, go watch Monday Night Football or whatever.

mazda6s · October 2005

What do I know, I grew up driving on snow and ice and I actually like driving on it. :surprise:

backy · October 2005

So did I. I guess you don't get much opportunity to drive in the winter on roads where other people who haven't grown up driving on them drive like maniacs/idiots. I know how to drive in snow/ice--it's the other drivers I'm worried about, for myself and my other family members who drive my cars, and why I like every advantage (like good tires and ABS and traction control) that I can get.

Also, I think Mazda agrees with those who think ABS has value. It is standard on the Mazda3 hatchback.

mdaffron · October 2005

I guess you don't get much opportunity to drive in the winter on roads where other people who haven't grown up driving on them drive like maniacs/idiots.

Oh, believe me, living in Richmond, VA, I do. One of my favorite things to do is watch (from my nice, warm downtown office) the folks from 'up nawth" driving down I-95 at much too high a speed in what they think is the same snow they get up there, unaware of Virginia's notoriety for freezing rain and wet snow that almost always puts an inch-thick layer of ice between the snow and the road down here. It brings a tear (of laughter) to me eye, all those Subarus, Explorers and Cherokees with NY, VT and MA plates stuck in ditches and at the bottom of embankments, their headlights pointing up into the sky like giant bugs that can't right themselves ...

My cranium contains a piece of equipment that I once thought was standard, but the older I get, I'm finding that it seems to have been optional from the Maker. It's called Common Sense. If I face a day so bad that Traction Control is the only thing that will save my life so I can get to work, guess what? I'm staying home with a warm bowl of soup, a cracklin' fire in the fireplace, and Andy Griffith reruns! (Besides, what's the ground clearance on our hatchbacks -- taking into account the sidesills that we don't want to tear up? Three or four inches? I'll stay home and wait until the plows come through; by then the driving will be easy!)

Also, I think Mazda agrees with those who think ABS has value. It is standard on the Mazda3 hatchback.

Oh, they know it has value. By making it "standard" for 2006, they were able to guarantee themselves another $300 on the sale of every Mazda3! Thank goodness I bought my hatch this year when ABS was still an option!

Meade

autonomous · October 2005

My cranium contains a piece of equipment that I once thought was standard, but the older I get, I'm finding that it seems to have been optional from the Maker. It's called Common Sense. If I face a day so bad that Traction Control is the only thing that will save my life so I can get to work, guess what? I'm staying home with a warm bowl of soup, a cracklin' fire in the fireplace, and Andy Griffith reruns!

I'm with Backy on this score. Meade, of course, is right when he says common sense has a lot to do with it. Doesn't common sense tell you that if you're going into a period of 3 to 4 months of poor weather to give yourself and your fellow commuters a break and equip your car properly for unexpected driving conditions? For example, it just takes avoiding one fender bender to justify adding winter tires (especially if you're not equipped with ABS). Plus, you get to eat Aunt Bea's home-made chicken soup rather than the hospital's version. I imagine insurance companies must have a chart pinned to the wall showing the number of days of poor weather correlating to claims.

p.s. winter is coming.

reuel3 · October 2005

Good information on the value of ABS, all-weather tires, etc., but we should probably get back on topic....

Thanks!

briham · October 2005

Snow tires help a great deal, especially on rear wheel drive cars. My friend has a BMW 5 Series and he swears by his snow tires, like night and day. I don't care how good a driver you are, it is tough to drive in winter conditions if you don't have a "snow friendly" vehicle.

Here are a few articles that may help you:

http://www.automedia.com/article.aspx?articleID=ccr20020101wt&page=1

http://www.automedia.com/article.aspx?articleID=ccr20031101wv&page=1

http://www.automedia.com/article.aspx?articleID=dsm20050101wd&page=1

mdaffron · October 2005

Only a month old ...

http://www.pennlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/business-0/1125911150298920.xml

Meade

modock · October 2005

Thanks,
but I know what snow tires are and why they are needed, I was just wondering what others paid for them and what brands they liked.

autonomous · October 2005

You might want to check out the latest issue of Consumer Reports as they have a timely article on the topic. Michelins rated highest with Goodyears and Bridgestones not far down the list but there were a few surprises including the low cost Viking and Mastercraft snow tires.

Personally, I have found the BF Goodrich Winter Slaloms an inexpensive and trust worthy set for the last three winters on my Mazda Protege5. I downsized the tiresize and had the tires mounted on separate steel rims as part of a great package at an independent tire shop.

ezcompany · October 2005

Lesson learned - I am going to listen to someone with more experience in life..and next time when the weather is nasty. Pouring rain/ice/little bit of snow ice mix we get here in Charlotte NC. I am going to sit at home. cause boy...most of the folks down here in the south sure don't turn on them lights when it starts pouring.
Fool me once - shame on you
Fool me twice - shame on me

mdaffron · October 2005

When did Charlotte become a Canadian province?

:confuse:

Meade

P.S. Virginia made it a state law last July to always have your headlights on whenever your wipers are running. I'm not gonna get caught, even if people in front of me get irritated every time I wash my windshield.

Mazda3 Hatchback

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