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  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    I would say for sure that the Protege is better put together than a comparible Civic. My Protege was still tight when I sold it with almost 30,000 miles on it. My brother's Civic isn't, and it doesn't even have 20,000 miles. I ride in his Civic a lot because we car-pool and I can't help but notice how chintzy it feels. It rattles and it doesn't go over bumps in the road very well. It hits some bumps HARD. It rides like a sports car, but it has no excuse to ride like a sports car. Compared to my 92' Integra and my 2001 Protege ES, his 2002 Civic feels like a Cavalier. You can't compare it to my Mazda6.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    bluong1 Nov 21, 2003 6:46pm
    “Whereas for the C&D method can be viewed as some sort of max-hp/weight ratio, which IMHO, not so informative. It's not so surprising that the Accord came first: Honda engines always deliver power at very high rpm”

    Honda Accord’s 2.4 is mainly more powerful than the Mazda 2.3 in the lower rpm range! Especially below 3000 rpm.

     baggs32 Nov 21, 2003 7:15pm
    “I'm not as concerned with the 0-60 as I am with low end torque due to the terrain I have to deal with. The 6i wasn't all that great on hills so I'm hoping and praying the 3s will be better…I test drove an SVT 5-door Focus a couple of weeks ago and it's a really great car.”

    I believe the regular-gas Mazda 2.3 got stronger low end than Focus SVT’s smaller-displacement premium-gas engine.

    lmp180psu Nov 21, 2003 6:31pm
    “…so in terms of 0-60 numbers, CR makes more sense IMO.”

    That’s why C&D also publishes the 5-60mph street start.

    newcar31 Nov 21, 2003 7:23pm
    “‘What I want to know is a number that tell me how my car will perform during passing a long truck on the one lane farmer road, how easy I can make lane merging on the Hwy, etc...’

    You want to know if the Mazda3 can effortlessly pass and merge on highways? No, it can't. You need to wring the 2.3L out to get the most out of it. Sounds like you need a V8.”

    Even if you need to downshift the 4-cyl in order to achieve the V8-like passing power, you still don’t’ have to clutch dump or brake torque the way C&D measures the acceleration. All you need is to downshift your stick.

    So sounds like that’s what CR is for. They do publish the “downshifting-the-manual for passing” figures, while C&D only publishes the passing figure WITHOUT down shifting manually!
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    dinu01 Nov 20, 2003 7:58pm
    “I have a 91 Maxima - in a straight line it's faster than my Protege 2.0, but it has no steering feel and in turns you really have to slow down. Not so in the PRO :)”

    Both my ’98 Corolla LE & ’93 Camry V6 SE are more powerful than my old ’90 Protégé LX, but I always ended up going slower in those Toyotas, even when driving in a straight line sometimes. This unsure-ness in steering, both input & output, really sucks & loses driver’s confidence, & fun as well

    lavaorange3 Nov 21, 2003 4:48pm
    “There's more to Mazda than just speed. My mom bought a G-35 coupe and while it's fast, almost everything else about the car is's not an integrated whole.”

    Right on! Nissans are bunch of crudely designed vehicles. Like what I've been saying, “Brawn but no brain.” - - - - - - - 38029
    “Precise, linear steering provides good road feel, is nicely weighted, though some may prefer lighter effort.”

    Lighter effort, eh? So the electrohydraulic is heavy enough, then. I thought I might prefer the 1.6 w/ the heavier hydraulic steering & forget about the 2.3 power.

    bluong1 Nov 24, 2003 10:50am
    “They will stop the Focus SVT production. The 2004 Focus SVT is the last batch”

    That’s right! The Mazda 3S is taking its place. Once again, the Mazda3 is a “European car”.

    bluong1 Nov 22, 2003 6:29am
    “Honestly, if I have a choice, I would chose the PZEV engine over the normal engine. After all, everyone is happy with the catalytic converter, which also doesn't do any good for the hp.”

    That’s why that balance-shafted 2.3 PZEV Mazda engine used only in the recent Focus is so important, damn it! Who doesn’t want to breath in cleaner air!
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    "Even if you need to downshift the 4-cyl in order to achieve the V8-like passing power, you still don’t’ have to clutch dump or brake torque the way C&D measures the acceleration. All you need is to downshift your stick."

    All I'm saying is that the Mazda3 won't have effortless passing power on the freeway. If you have to downshift, it's not effortless. You don't even necessarily need a V8 for effortless passing power either. My 626 GT turbo flat out hauled butt in 5th gear on the freeway once the turbo was boostin'.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    I'm not disagreeing w/ you about Mazda 2.3's weak low end. I was just saying what Bruno(& I) wants more is how CR, & not C&D, measures both the acceleration & passing time.

    I personally think C&D's top-gear 30-50 mph passing time is ridiculous, 50-70 mph is alright. Except on my '90 Protege LX's short top gear, only idiots would drive the top gear from 30 mph. That's why I always check people's shifting habits before I lend my stick out.
  • Dropping a gear or two and winding it out is one of the greatest pleasures of driving a stick... 160hp hauling a 2800 lb. car is only going to do so much on its own... However, with the torque peak at 4500 rpm, it should be a blast to keep it on the boil...
  • zaimonzaimon Posts: 124
    All this talk about the 160 horses in the 2.3 not being strong enough to pull this car into highway traffic and past other vehicles has got me worried. I'm now looking to add an intercooler and turbocharger to this thing so it can blow all those Mustangs and Civic SiRs out of the water...

    Seriously. Does anyone know any performance upgrades that are coming down to the line for this car? The most I'd ever do would be to put in a superchip, performance intake/exhaust for a limited hp/tq boost on the highway.
  • I imagine if there are aftermarket goodies for the 2.3 in the M6, then they ought to be readily available for the M3. So far as the 160 hp not being enough for highway driving, it'll be plenty. Heck, my PR5's got only 130 hp, and I have no problem keeping up... Of course it isn't a 5.0 V8, but it isn't meant to be.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    wongpres Nov 24, 2003 3:39pm

    I've now driven all Mazda3 tire sizes (15, 16, and 17-inch). Even the high sidewalled 15-inchs felt nothing like the BMW (similar firmeness but much worse NVH & refinement). The Mazda3 ain't a BMW.”

    I guess all the compliment of "how the lowered-suspension Focus SVT rides as absorbent as the BMW 3-series" is about the lowered sport suspension std in the 325is coupe, which rides on 16" std.

    I'd say, compare the 16"/17" Mazda3 w/ the sport-suspension 16"/17" BMW 3-series to see how they handle vs ride comfort. I know Mazda loses on noise suppression to just about everyone.
  • zaimonzaimon Posts: 124
    The Mazdaspeed6 they showed in Europe last year (Geneva Auto Show I believe) used the 2.3 and was turbocharged/intercooled to 280 horses/255-tq and had AWD! Pretty nice if you ask me.

    Let's face it, with 160 horses, the 3s beats out most other cars in it's class. Heck, with 148hp and amenities, the 3i presents a better overall package than most other cars out there. It's ironic tho that some are questioning this car's power.

    Here's a story to read however: Study: Faster cars, higher speeds lead to more deaths.

    There's probably little need to be worried about performance, but it sure is nice to think about the possibilities.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,910
    Thanks for catch on the Greek letters, I have been reading too many "future vehicles" forecasts lately and got them mixed up.
  • I was planning to wait till spring to change my car( i just bought new winter tires ) but after spending half an hour with the 3 last week; I just couldn't wait...

     Now I'm waiting for my Mazda 3 sport GT lava orange manual with A/C and moonroof... The salesman told me this color was hard to find and it could take up to 2 months...

     This car is just great... It's gonna be a killer !!!
  • Yeah, I haven't even driven it yet, and I decided not to wait. So many upgrades over the PR5! And you're right; lava orange is hard to find, so I went with choice no. 2: Titanium Gray. I was told I'd have to wait 3-4 months for orange.
  • it's plenty enough. Unless, you are used to really powerful cars.

    Bare in mind that many of those who post on this forum are really into all aspects of performance, which includes the desire for great power. For the clear majority of the populace, the 2.3 engine is going to be plenty.
  • zaimonzaimon Posts: 124
    The car I drive right now is a Mazda Tribute... 201hp/201tq which is plenty enough for me and with AWD it's roughly 600lbs heavier than the Mz3-hatch.

    I'm mostly looking forward to having a manual again, if the 3s, like the Tribute-v6 came only with an automatic I would surely look the other way. I don't like automatics (just spent about $85 to get the transmission flushed) and am looking forward to having a manual again!
  • zaimonzaimon Posts: 124
    It's weird how the Lava Orange/Copper color works so well with the Mazda3. I can recall not seeing many (or any) Honda Civic Coupes in copper.

    Your best bet - until more inventory is available - to actually get that color would be to order it.

    Still deciding between Copper and Black.
  • Don't believe those salesmen..they want you to buy right away. If you look at the incoming 3's on you'll see that quite a few are orange.
    Get what you want.
  • Maybe on the mainland, but not in Paradise. Woe is me.
  • There are 2 current systems being offered by manufacturers. The first is to use a sensor mounted to the rim that transmits the pressure to a receiver located outside the wheel. This is a more expensive approach due to the added equipment. The simpler solution is to measure the rotation of each wheel independently. A wheel with less pressure will be smaller and thus rotate faster. The existing ABS systems already measures rotational speed so its just a matter of adding another light on the dashboard and some software tweaks. However, the second system is somewhat flawed because if all 4 tires are low, the system will read OK. I've read that NHTSA will not allow this second system to qualify as the mandated tire pressure monitoring system. Either way, the light will be on when a spare tire is used due to either the lack of a transmitter or smaller diameter depending on which system is used.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032

    You meant the volcanos on mainland Hawaii?
  • No, I meant a dire shortage of Lava Orange hatchbacks in the first shipment to Oahu...reacting to the comment above about autotrader showing Orange in plentiful supply... So I took Gray instead. In fact, the wife convinced me she'd look better in gray than orange.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    I may be far away from you on the other coast, but just as relaxing across from the Catalina Island. ;-)
  • Hey Guys, thanks for your help.

    I did some more digging last night and found out a few things (going by memory here)
    -It comes out mid Jan in AUS
    -Neo @ ~A$22500, Maxx @ ~A$27000, SP23 @ ~A$29000-30000
    -Neo is obviously baseline,
    -Dont have a clue what Maxx has or doesnt have. It appears to be a 2L (Im guessing it has the power pack and maybe better interior)
    -SP23 includes everything it does in the states + Saftey package.
    -I also think that option wise, we are pretty much the same as those in the states.. no traction, no rain sensing wipers, ect (except for hatch in 2L) .. middle arm and headrest would be nice though:)
    Was expecting to pay about 25-26k for the car, but considering the SP23 includes everything id pretty much want ('cept mp3 alloy pedals and chrome exaust *dreaming*) and is ~29k, take 7-9% off if im lucky + anything I can get for trade in, I should end up being pretty close .. hopefully.
    Two Questions
    1)Does the S (SP23) model count as a *sports car* for insurance purposes?
    2)Any photos of the black cloth trim\interior? (saw the one in the 3's brochure, and im now curious to see how it looks on the whole) and how it compares to the beige, and the black & blue or red?
    One final note A$27000 (my max target price) = US$19000, and thats already a US$2 grand over what the US pays for the S hatch. Granted, i also wanna get the safety option (which the AU SP23 has). Still US$1000 over and above.
    The SP23 is also AU$3k above my target price, so im curious to know where is that additional US$1000 + AU$3000\US$2000 = US$3000 going? (right hand drive conversion would be one thing)
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    Any photos of the black cloth trim\interior? (saw the one in the 3's brochure, and im now curious to see how it looks on the whole) and how it compares to the beige, and the black & blue or red?

    Not sure if you are talking about the black/charcoal BP9 interior (same quality of cloth as the beige), but I have those two pics p;am- p;am- p;am- p;am- p;.dnm=BP9_1.jpg&.view=t p;am- p;am- p;am- p;am- p;.dnm=BP9.jpg&.view=t

    About the price, after adding 8% of tax, plus the destination charge, the US 5-door s-trim costs 18767 USD. It's not very far from the 19000 that you have to pay there (doesn't it include tax, etc...). If not, don't bother to make sense out of it. The car prices are determined with respect to the local market and not to the manufacturer base cost. So does other consumer products, otherwise we would pay not more than $5 for all Microsoft products, LOL.
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    It makes perfect sense that Mazda names the various trims differently around the world.

    They have to! Remember of cool compact from Toyota where the engine is in the center of the car, how it's been called? MR2, right?

    In french, the "MR2" is pronounced as "Em-Err-doe", which when saying fast becomes almost like "Me-Err-doe" i.e., the exact pronunciation of the french word MERDE, our national favorite word, which means more or less "P.O.S.", LOL!
  • Hey, thanks .. Cant believe i missed those picks.. looked over those photos so many times. I guess the black/charcoal looks ok, however i think the black\blue is still more classy (and more $$$).

    What is this BP9, BP8 and other things like that I've been seeing references to? Link? (sorry for my ignorance).

    You're right about the costs. If i had thought about it longer i might have worked it out :) it was all sitting right in front of me!
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    OK! I learn something from you all, thanks.
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    BP4, BP5, etc... are Mazda global codes for various interior upholsteries. When the dealer order a specific car, they use those codes, and not "dark blue with two-tone black/blue cloth", which is not an accurate description. Similar principle is applied for exterior colors (Those codes can be used across several car models, because they might have the exact same color, for example between Mazda3 and RX-8)

    For example, the interior/exterior combos for the Mazda3in the US are available according to this chart.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032

    This is so stupid! The low-volume i actually gives you the choice of beige or black interior for the dark blue & black exterior.

    Why ain't the most popular Titanium S available w/ the choice of blue or red interior? & what is this "national flag" mismatch combo for U.S. & Canada? I'm on the south side of the border, so I want Mazda to reverse the red/blue interior for the Titanium exterior. ;-)
  • dinu01dinu01 Posts: 2,586
    As an FYI:

    Don't hit refresh on Edmunds as it will double/triple/etc post your last message. Instead, click in Subscribe, then when you wanna read the boards that interest you, click on Messager Centre to pick a board or on Read Subscriptions to read the most recent post.

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